The USCG will hold public hearings on All Aboard Florida over the next week, but just showing up and griping will not make the official record. You have to submit your navigational issues in writing.
Boaters Distraught over All Aboard Florida
http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/boaters-distraught-over-all-aboard-florida-tell-coast-guard-now (http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/boaters-distraught-over-all-aboard-florida-tell-coast-guard-now)
(http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/medium/images/stuartrailwaybridge-sunshinestatenews.jpg?1410923146)
Waterway Guide, authority on cruising America's coastal waterways since 1947, is urging boaters to participate in the U.S. Coast Guard comment period -- giving the USCG their views on how railway bridges across South Florida waterways will affect them if and when All Aboard Florida becomes a reality.
Those views must be in writing and must go directly to the U.S. Coast Guard, not to the magazine or anywhere else, according to the publication's news editor, Mike Ahart.
The All Aboard Florida (AAF) passenger rail service, as proposed, would add 32 trains to Florida East Coast Railway tracks from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m every day, between Cocoa and Miami. Ahart claims the train service would severely affect vessel traffic at the following:
The bridge across the St. Lucie River at Stuart (closed vertical clearance: 7 feet -- also part of the Okeechobee Waterway Route).
The busy New River in Fort Lauderdale (closed vertical clearance: 4 feet -- see related story).
The bridge across the Loxahatchee River in Jupiter, off the Intracoastal Waterway at Mile 1005, (closed vertical clearance: 4 feet).
Ahart points out that these bridges are normally in the open position except when a train is approaching or crossing. But with the increased train traffic, he says, openings would happen only a few times per hour and could be dangerously brief.
(http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/medium/images/fec-rr-bridge-new-river.jpg?1410923146)
FEC bridge over the New River
Freight trains currently use the tracks, and each lowering of a bridge closes the waterway for up to 20 minutes. Under the new passenger service plan, the freight trains would continue to use these bridges as well, to make a total of 42 to 46 trains a day -- in fact, due to the connection of the company with Port Everglades and its expansion to accommodate Post-Panamax ships, freight on the tracks is expected to increase.
Said Ahart, "These bridges also have frequent problems -- the FEC bridge in Stuart is frequently closed for repairs, and I once waited nearly an hour at the FEC bridge on the New River in Fort Lauderdale due to a malfunction."
Though this issue predominantly affects businesses, local boaters and cruisers in the general vicinity of the bridges, access to the Okeechobee Waterway and marinas and facilities upstream from these bridges will be hampered for all boaters, the magazine says.
Ahart reminds readers of a recent catastrophic boat fire in an anchorage just south of the Stuart railroad bridge. If 42 to 46 closings had been in force then, emergency response would have been severely impaired at that location, too.
Another concern: Cruisers who normally spend time (and money) in Vero Beach, Fort Pierce and Stuart claim they will be reluctant to make those stops in an All Aboard Florida future.
The Coast Guard notice and request for survey information does not mention All Aboard Florida specifically, or any details on possible increased traffic and bridge delays, but the connection is clear. Shown when you open the link is the notice and details of the survey questions, but Ahart insists the actual survey must be downloaded and mailed, emailed or dropped off according to exact instructions. What he's saying is, don't use a copy/print of the Waterway Guide story or this story. Here it is below for those unable to print out the survey:
All interested parties are notified that the commander, Seventh Coast Guard District, is conducting navigational surveys of three waterways impacted by rail traffic. We are soliciting written comments through this notice and will be accepting written comments regarding the reasonable needs of marine traffic at the following locations at the date and time indicated:
WATERWAY/LOCATION AND COMMENT COLLECTION DATE/TIME:
A. Waterway: New River, mile 1.82, Downtown Fort Lauderdale, Broward Co., FL (Lat: 26 o07'06.64"N, Long: 080 o08'43.56"W). Comment collection: Oct. 1, 2014, from 7-9 p.m., at Embassy Suites, 1100 SE 17th St, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316.
B. Waterway:LoxahatcheeRiver,mile1.23,Jupiter,PalmBeachCo.,FL(Lat:26 o56'51.50"N, Long: 080o05'25.10"W). Comment collection: Oct, 2, 2014, from 7-9 p.m., at Embassy Suites, 4350 PGA Blvd, Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410.
C. Waterway:St.LucieRiver,mile7.11,OkeechobeeWaterway(OWW),Stuart,Martin Co., FL (Lat: 27 o 12'13.02"N, Long: 080 o 15'36.79"W). Comment collection: Oct, 3, 2014, from 7-9 p.m. at Hutchinson Island Marriott Beach Resort, 555 NE Ocean Blvd, Stuart, FL 34996.
In order to ensure the reasonable needs of navigation are being met by current bridge operation regulations, the U.S. Coast Guard is gathering written information from mariners to help determine if a change in federal bridge operating regulations should be considered.
Interested parties are encouraged to complete the enclosed navigation survey and return it to the Seventh Coast Guard District offices to be included in the official record. Information helpful to this effort includes current and future use of the waterway (especially through movable bridges), the kind and type of vessels used, frequency of use, navigational hazards such as currents, obstructions, and those hazards that may not be evident from charts and published materials.
SOLICITATION OF COMMENTS:
In an effort to meet maritime needs, interested parties are requested to express their navigability concerns in writing. Comments will be received for the record at the Office of the Commander, Seventh Coast Guard District, Brickell Plaza Federal Building, 909 Southeast 1st Ave,, Suite 432, Miami, Florida 33131-3050. Comments mailed on or before Nov, 1, 2014, will be made part of the official record. Written comments can also be received via email at: USCGD7DPBPublicComment@uscg.mil. Written comments will also be received at the locations and dates listed above.
Survey questions in a nutshell:
User information (name, address, phone).
Type of waterway user (pleasure, commercial; licensed, unlicensed).
Vessel info, including bridge clearance requirements.
Waterways used (New River, St. Lucie RIver, Loxahatchee).
Do you use the main channel?
When do you transit these waterways? (season, frequency, time of day)
Other comments.
Pay particular attention to the on-or-before-Nov.1-deadline in order to make your comment part of the public record.
Thanks for posting.
This is real stuff.
I plan on bringing up United States Coast Guard Sector Jacksonville at today's DIA Board meeting 4 pm 1st floor city hall in response to 2014-305. Active legislation before the Jacksonville city council. Also an active resolution before the DIA.
How does proposed AAF/current FEC freight traffic compare to the amount of passenger/freight rail traffic on the FEC before 1968?
Coming down the Intercoastal, it is not that unusual to have bridges that only open on a schedule. The government is also doing it's best to make all new bridges meet the 65 foot height requirement. I guess one issue is that they can't make the RR do that (would it even work?). I have had to wait 2 to 3 hours for "rush hour" to be over before a bridge would open. If the issue is that a bridge that folks are used to being open the vast majority of the time may now only be opened 2 or 3 times an hour - meaning a 20 to 30 minute wait - then I do not see an issue here.
Of course, have you seen the RR bridges that open around here? They all date back 60 to 80 years at least and do not look like they could pass any inspection I can think of. The one downtown is often "broken". It might be that the more often use of the mechanical parts will cause massive failures and then what happens? Will a waterway be closed for 6 months while a new bridge is built or the old one totally rebuilt? It appears to be a maintenance issue on the RR to me.
Sometimes I think recreational boaters need to remember the recreation portion of their title.
In related news, the FEC bridge in Downtown Jacksonville is stuck in the closed position since last week. Two tugs are docked near the Hyatt because they can't pass through.
Yes, it is important to remember that the laws associated with bridge heights and keeping various waterways open have to do with commercial traffic as much as anything. Recreational traffic, while often considered an important economic factor, is secondary. Of course, in many areas the commercial traffic has become a very small part of the equation.
As the St Johns through downtown is still often used for commercial traffic, I would think the RR is under pressure to get that bridge fixed. I had heard it was stuck down, but had not realized is still was.
Quote from: Lunican on September 17, 2014, 08:41:33 AM
Sometimes I think recreational boaters need to remember the recreation portion of their title.
In related news, the FEC bridge in Downtown Jacksonville is stuck in the closed position since last week. Two tugs are docked near the Hyatt because they can't pass through.
Which comes up at every meeting they have about potential redevelopment of Reynolds Park in GCS.
The closures for passenger trains would be shorter than those for freight trains because the trains are shorter and move faster.
Norfolk Virginia probably has the worst waterway delays caused by bridges in the country followed by the New Jersey inland waterway. The Elizabeth River in Norfolk is closed for a couple of hours morning and evening and frequently during the day to allow slow moving freight trains to cross.
You just plan your schedule on the water around the worst times.
I think one of the recreational uses is that people in say, Jupiter will make a dinner reservation at a favorite place in a different port knowing it takes X amount of time.
But if bridge openings will be sporadic, the boater might reach the destination and have to wait for potentially 2 freight and AAF to pass before the bridge opens.
They miss dinner and the trip isn't as recreational as they had planned.
This is part of the economic impact they are saying AAF will kill.
With regards to FEC traffic in 1968 vs. Planned post AAF/Panama volumes, I would have to look it up.
I looked it up once. There were more trains back in the day than there are now, but less than there will be when AAF is added.
Coast Guard hearings are nearly complete for the impacts of AAF to navigation.
According to the Palm Beach Post, a constant refrain heard was to beware of "Bridge Rage". Just a reminder, FEC is moving the bridge control from Jacksonville by remote to a local operator. So the measurements taken by boaters today does not reflect bridge operations planned in the future.
http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/business/bridge-rage-feared-if-trains-backup-boaters/nh6xC/#4f5b1efd.257747.735551 (http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/business/bridge-rage-feared-if-trains-backup-boaters/nh6xC/#4f5b1efd.257747.735551)
'Bridge rage' feared if trains backup boaters
STUART — It has borne the weight of steam and diesel behemoths for 90 years and given passage to countless souls seeking solace in a fishing lure.
But on Thursday, sailors who have glided through the gate of the St. Lucie River drawbridge described its deterioration and complained the aging span will be a constant barrier to the sea when All Aboard Florida sets 32 additional trains a day on its tracks.
(http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/275/img/photos/2014/11/13/35/c3/111415-STUART-ALLABOARD-5.jpg)
More than 250 people packed a library auditorium in Stuart to express their concerns about the St. Lucie River bridge and how All Aboard Florida's express passenger rail project will impact waterway access. There were so many people, speakers had to leave the room after their turn so more could come in.
The meeting was the second of three public hearings conducted by the Coast Guard to learn more about boater experiences. Each speaker was given two minutes.
Some didn't need that much.
"Here's the facts," started Hank Cushard. "At 7:15 a.m., we pulled up to the bridge. It was down. We waited until 8:10 a.m. while two trains went by one way and another went the other way. There were 12 boats waiting behind us and two on the north side. You gotta fix this."
The bridges, including the New River bridge in Fort Lauderdale and one over the Loxhatchee River in Jupiter, remain open to boaters until a train passes and the span closes for 20 minutes or more.
The Coast Guard cannot order All Aboard Florida to change its project or update bridges, but it can regulate how often and when the bridges must be open to preserve safe channels.
For many at Thursday's meeting the fear wasn't just the nuisance of a queue, but the danger of idling in a strong current, "bridge rage" caused by lengthy waits, and ruin of a way of life on the water.
(http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/275/img/photos/2014/11/13/7a/99/111415-STUART-ALLABOARD-3.jpg)
"You go from 10 freight trains to 52 with passenger trains and it's going to close the river," said Charles Thayer, who pored over a draft environmental impact statement on the project and wrote his own eight-page analysis. "All I want is the Coast Guard to do what they say they do: maintain safe and reasonable navigation on the river."
All Aboard Florida maintains it will upgrade the bridges to mitigate wait times.
Proposed changes to the St. Lucie River bridge include infrastructure work that will reduce the average time the bridge is closed per train to 15 minutes from 20 minutes. But the upgrades won't increase the seven-foot vertical clearance or 50-foot width of the opening. The bridge will also remain a single track.
Still, with the added trains, the St. Lucie bridge would be closed an average of 9.79 hours per day during the week and 7.63 hours per day on weekends, according to the Federal Railroad Administration draft environmental report.
Because of Loxahatchee bridge improvements promised by All Aboard Florida, closing times will be reduced from 20 minutes to 12 minutes. The average total closure time per day during the week will increase from 5.8 hours to 8.6 hours. On the weekends, that will grow from 3.6 hours to 7.2 hours, according to the environmental report.
Peter Schmidt, Owner of United Yacht Sales, heads to the back of auditorium at Blake Library in Stuart holding large sign ...
(http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/275/img/photos/2014/11/13/88/23/111415-STUART-ALLABOARD-4.jpg)
All Aboard Florida said it will also make bridge opening schedules available so boaters can plan their trip to avoid backups, and run more freight trains at night.
The promises did little to assuage concerns.
"There are people who can't navigate this area when it's clear," said Casey Cass, president of Florida Marine Contractors Association. "When it's jammed up, it's even more difficult. This will result in death."
Surveys of vessel traffic through the openings were taken during a two- to three-week period in January. The report concluded that the project will not have a significant adverse effect on the marine industry.
But Martin County and the Jupiter Inlet River District took their own surveys and found heavier traffic patterns than what was seen in the three-week survey.
Gene Stratton, a marine information specialist, said the Coast Guard will review the written and oral comments, "digest them," and decide if rule changes or new regulations are needed. A decision could be made by early next year, Stratton said.
Hmm, it doesn't look like much they can do. Anyway, just wondering. Anyone know what the average total closure time per day during the week is on the FEC bridge downtown? I'm interested to see how they compare.
Quote from: spuwho on November 17, 2014, 12:25:16 AM"There are people who can't navigate this area when it's clear," said Casey Cass, president of Florida Marine Contractors Association. "When it's jammed up, it's even more difficult. This will result in death."
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE! Run for the hills!!
Quote from: spuwho on November 17, 2014, 12:25:16 AM
"There are people who can't navigate this area when it's clear," said Casey Cass, president of Florida Marine Contractors Association. "When it's jammed up, it's even more difficult. This will result in death."
So that's your best argument? AAF shouldn't run more trains (and in the process help travel over a great distance) because the casual boater will be inconvenienced and some are horrible at driving a boat so clear he way for them? Really? I don't know, sounds pretty lame.
Quote from: spuwho on November 17, 2014, 12:25:16 AM
"There are people who can't navigate this area when it's clear," said Casey Cass, president of Florida Marine Contractors Association. "When it's jammed up, it's even more difficult. This will result in death."
(http://i.imgur.com/iQxnWyS.jpg)
With a local bridge tender, rather than remote control from Jacksonville, the closed times can be reduced a great deal. Bridge machinery can also be updated to make the opening and closing operations faster.
As a boater I've been through that area and more difficult ones a few hundred times. If you have to be somewhere at an exact time or have to go fast, don't take a boat.