Claiming that being gay is a choice like drug abuse, the senior pastor for a megachurch in Tennessee says that "gays must be put to death" because God commands it.
Last Sunday, Brainerd Baptist Church Senior Pastor Robby Gallaty told his large congregation that Christians should never stop discriminating against homosexuals, claiming that gays could choose to be straight if they only accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/09/megachurch-pastor-says-gays-must-be-put-to-death/
*yawn*
Some crazy said something crazy. He's entitled to say whatever he wants, it's still a free country.
Best to ignore idiots like this.
Quote from: stephendare on September 06, 2014, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: coredumped on September 06, 2014, 10:29:07 AM
*yawn*
Some crazy said something crazy. He's entitled to say whatever he wants, it's still a free country.
Best to ignore idiots like this.
Why would you think that is true coredumped?
Unchallenged, these kinds of things become a spreadable cancer.
Hes entitled to say whatever he wants, but he's not entitled for anyone else to acquiesce to his opinions.
And yet you and your's have no problem with radical Islam. Speaking of cancer....
I'd defend both the pastor and the islamic's right to say their bigoted nonsense, even though I disagree with it. This is the bedrock of the first amendment.
The First Amendment only protects your right to free speech from the government. It doesn't protect you from the consequences of your speech. Is this Baptist mullah's last name Phelps?
He won't be saying that when his boyfriend gets busted in some public bathroom....
You know that is what usually happens with these kind of radical lunatics.
I'll laugh my butt off when it happens.
Oh and I don't recall Stephen saying he didn't have a problem with radical Islam. Maybe I'm missing something?
Always have to get a dig in don't we.
This guy is deluded ... preaching to a deluded flock ... all within the church, gaining comfort, a sense of righteousness and mutual support, thereby protected from discovering their delusion.
This guy, in many environments would be considered a fucking nut ... a standup comedian. He is actually quite funny. It amazes me ... here in the 21st century, that we have idiots like this who can gain a platform to spew this nonsense.
But somehow, I love it. Wouldn't it be boring without evangelists (charlatans) like Joel O'steen, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, Swaggart's son, Oral Roberts, Jim Bakker, John Hagee, Jerry Falwell ... ? As long as most individuals don't take them seriously we are okay. The problem is that too many take them seriously.
I generally try to subscribe to a laissez faire approach toward idiocy. I am ok with idiots being idiots as long as they do it "over there". "Over there" being a place very, very, very far away from me and anyone I love and I love a lot of people. How many? Oh, all the human beings, except Hitler. That being said, my laissez faire approach has its limits, so I agree with the argument that idiots have the right to free speech, but not that idiotic speech should always be ignored. Idiots and their practices (including "free speech") should not be ignored if the idiot has influence over anyone else or if their idiotic practices negatively impact anyone else. So, in my opinion, Pastor Robby Gallaty, the guy who said that "homosexuals should be put to death" should not be ignored but challenged because he is not being an idiot "over there" and his idiocy has a significant negative impact on other people.
That being said, here are my challenges to him based on his arguments in this article: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/03/tn-pastor-vows-not-to-repent-for-homophobia-god-says-gays-must-be-put-to-death/.
• Sodom and Gomorrah were not destroyed because of homosexuality. According to Genesis 17, it was destroyed because no righteous men (heterosexual or homosexual) could be found in it.
• He says that Leviticus says that a man lying with a man as a woman has committed a detestable thing, and it does, but Leviticus 20 also says that adulterers should be put to death and he is not calling for that. Also, even though Leviticus said that an adulterous woman should be put to death, when they tried it in the New Testament, Jesus challenged them saying that those without sin should cast the first stone (John 8:7). No one cast a stone after that. The woman lived.
• He said that homosexuality is an attack on family and the marriage. I'd argue that infidelity, rape and domestic violence are far more lethal attacks on marriage than two homosexuals moving in next door. I have read about men who have raped or physically violated the women they say they love and I have never read that it was because of the gay couple next door.
• While some LGBT people wear that "badge" with honor, some of the LGBT people who have disclosed their LGBT status to me as a college advisor wear it with shame, fear or defiance. Some come out to their families and are disowned or cut off. One LGBT male wore his pink hair without ever looking anyone in the eye, even me, who he had come to see because he had to satisfy "mandatory advising". He did not truly look at me until I asked him how he had got his hair so bright pink, remarking that black women with dark hair often had to bleach their hair light, then color to get a color like that. This conversation eventually led to him disclosing his LGBT status. If he was so damn honored to be identified as LGBT, then why did I have to get at this through his hair color choice before he would even look at me?
• "Homosexuals should be put to death" because... "Jesus" is stupid. The last time I checked, "Thou shalt not kill" was part of the Ten Commandments.
• I can't ignore his idiotic speech because it has a negative impact on the LGBT youth at his church and their parents. It is because of idiots like him that "Christian" parents are disowning their LGBT children resulting in a huge rise in the homeless LGBT youth population, which is a problem for me, because I love human beings INCLUDING LGBT human beings. You can read more about this here: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-forsaken-a-rising-number-of-homeless-gay-teens-are-being-cast-out-by-religious-families-20140903, if interested.
One persons interpretation of the gospel does not make it "gospel".
Just as their are mullahs who love making fatwas against this or that (their translations of the Koran), there are preachers who love to espouse their gospel (their translations of the Bible).
Man has done a great job at misinterpreting just about all the messages given them collectively over time (whether by man, or by deity). While we think we have grown, ultimately we are the same.
Domestic violence occurs in hetero and homo relationships, to think that one life is ok because something doesn't happen in the other is a false argument. And yes, rape and assault occurs in LGBT relationships as well.
With gay marriage now becoming legal, statistics are beginning to show that the divorce rate for LGBT's is almost identical to the divorce rate in hetero marriages. It means our capacity to form successful relationships of any kind run the risk of not working out, regardless of orientation.
My final thought is that collectively the Christians of the world need to "get off the back" of the LGBT's. Yes, Christians don't believe that the LGBT way is right. The message has been received loud and clear. When Jesus drew the line in the sand he asked us to quit being judges and start being a reflection of him. Judging was for those under the law. Love is for those under the Son.
So what will be for you? More judging? Or more love?
Quote from: RMHoward on September 06, 2014, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: stephendare on September 06, 2014, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: coredumped on September 06, 2014, 10:29:07 AM
*yawn*
Some crazy said something crazy. He's entitled to say whatever he wants, it's still a free country.
Best to ignore idiots like this.
Why would you think that is true coredumped?
Unchallenged, these kinds of things become a spreadable cancer.
Hes entitled to say whatever he wants, but he's not entitled for anyone else to acquiesce to his opinions.
And yet you and your's have no problem with radical Islam. Speaking of cancer....
WTF? You 'and yours?' Stephendare is a business partner and a BELOVED friend, but I neither sleep with him nor do I share any liberal opinion on Isis or other radical islamic insanity. So what's with this 'your's' crap? My friend also happens to belong to the largest Baptist congregation in the city... Duh? Wonder where that is?
So among the 6 partners we have: liberal and conservative. Very liberal and VERY conservative. Gay and Straight. We have Catholic, Jewish, Orthodox Christian, Church of Christ, Baptist, Lutheran... oops, sorry, no atheists
How would I personally label us? Probably something like this :
A highly educated genius that happens to be a Black moderate, devout Christian and urban planner.
A highly educated Italian Catholic digital techie.
A highly educated, fiscal conservative, and brilliant Jewish digital techie.
A highly educated Arabic Christian moderate, business and marketing expert.
A highly educated, gifted liberal writer, entrepreneur of a Baptist
We also have a Far right, WASP, broken down disabled veteran of retirement age, dual national, railroad planner Lutheran.
So if you want to try and put us all in one box, be my guest. I'd rather think you've met the 'diversity express!'
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 06, 2014, 03:55:53 PM
I'd defend both the pastor and the islamic's right to say their bigoted nonsense, even though I disagree with it. This is the bedrock of the first amendment.
My other thought on this is 'GOD CHRIS, WHAT A FREAKING REFRESHING POST!' Beautifully done. Thank you.
Having grown up in the (legalistic branch of the Southern Baptist Churches) I fully understand where this crap comes from. Ron, Churches are NOT meant to be museums for saints, they should strive to be hospitals for hypocrites. Bottom line, a congregation that should administer to, help out, reach out, feed, clothe, visit the sick, help the poor, tend to the hurting, etc. Not one of them is perfect nor will any of us be until the next life, so it's easy, maybe even cheap to sit on a mound and toss barbs at a group where 75-90% are sincere, caring people. I'm a Lutheran, your an atheist and I think your one of my favorite people in Jacksonville, but you already know that!
JUST ME:
Over the years I've heard all of the sermons on 'the Gay plague', 'gay threat,' 'gay ___ _____ (fill in the blank).' I've gone from seriously worrying and fretting over the 'gay problem' to a position that no one is threatened by, nor should they feel afraid of gay, lesbian or trans-gendered people.
The way I worked it out pretty much falls in line with the teachings of Christ per the comments by Kamilah. Aside from that angle I came up with a explanation that any of us could toss at the misguided pastor. This guy should remember (BTW - 'Thou shalt not kill' actually translates 'Thou shalt not MURDER.') as he seems to be calling for senseless killing.
Consider a straight pastor wants to follow every teaching in the Bible (he knows we all fall short) and as much as possible he tries. He falls in love with a beautiful woman, they date, marry and only then does he learn that she was born intersexual, and she has something of a male organ as well as a functioning female one. Now if they have sex is it right? What if he touches the 'wrong' organ in foreplay? What if she enjoys it? Does this qualify him for murder? How much of a male organ is too much when in every other way she appears and feels female? Turn this and twist it any way you want and it would be very hard to condemn anyone from following their hormones, heat or passions. The argument that 'it's a choice' sure doesn't apply to those with a visible, physical difference and it damn sure doesn't when those differences are not visible but are contained in someones heart.
Call it what you want, but that's my take.
I do not think that an idiot's right to say idiotic things that have a lethal and negatively significant impact on other people is refreshing at all in the least bit. I tolerate it, but I am not refreshed by it all. I am actually depressed by it. Comments like "homosexuals should be put to death" are not valuable because they make life "less boring". I would rather be bored than live in a world where people like Mathew Shepard are raped and murdered. Maybe I take things too damn seriously but as long as LGBT people are killing themselves and being killed because of the teachings of assholes like this I will consider what he says to be a problem and not "refreshing".
QuoteWords which, ordinarily and in many places, would be within the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment may become subject to prohibition when of such a nature and used in such circumstances a to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils which Congress has a right to prevent.
-Schenck v. United States 249 U.S. 47 http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/249/47
Seems to me calling for murder would fit.
Quote from: Kamilah on September 07, 2014, 12:36:29 AM
I do not think that an idiot's right to say idiotic things that have a lethal and negatively significant impact on other people is refreshing at all in the least bit. I tolerate it, but I am not refreshed by it all. I am actually depressed by it. Comments like "homosexuals should be put to death" are not valuable because they make life "less boring". I would rather be bored than live in a world where people like Mathew Shepard are raped and murdered. Maybe I take things too damn seriously but as long as LGBT people are killing themselves and being killed because of the teachings of assholes like this I will consider what he says to be a problem and not "refreshing".
Nobody said it was, I said ChrisUFgator's comment was refreshing, after a page of or so of remarks that leaned toward 'kill the pastor' or 'the Christians.' I thought his tolerance is a great example of how to handle these types of thoughtless statements.
The Old Testament and the Mosaic Law did require sexual immorality to be punished by death. However Jesus's sacrifice delivered us from the Old Testament Law penalties. I was a practicing homosexual and a born again Christian who loved God. I went to church after church looking for deliverance from homosexuality. I was prayed for, participated in Christian mental health counseling and even had homosexual demons cast out of me at a church here in Jacksonville. I was rejected, told there was a special place in hell for people like me by a member of the City Council here in Jacksonville. I was under so much shame, guilt, fear and condemnation that I developed psychosis and was on a mental health ward for five days. Finally in 2011 I heard the true Gospel. The Gospel of God's grace and mercy. The power of His unconditional love brought me true freedom. What I was looking for in a partner I found in a real relationship with The Lord Jesus Christ. I have never had so much joy, peace and true satisfaction. I love gay and straight people the way Christ has loved me. Love is the most powerful force in the universe. A love that chooses to love you when you are a your worst. Good news to homosexuals. God is not angry he loves you. Do not listen to preachers who tell you God is mad and ready to punish you. His full wrath was taken out on Jesus so He has none to pour out on you. There is a big difference between religion and True Christianity.
Another refreshing post!
Quote from: finehoe on September 07, 2014, 09:48:33 AM
QuoteWords which, ordinarily and in many places, would be within the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment may become subject to prohibition when of such a nature and used in such circumstances a to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils which Congress has a right to prevent.
-Schenck v. United States 249 U.S. 47 http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/249/47
Seems to me calling for murder would fit.
Things have changed a wee bit since 1918, you don't get charged for distributing a socialist pamphlet anymore. What you're thinking of is the 'fire in a crowded theatre' example. But pure opinion speech, he has a right to say even if the opinion is something I think is asinine. Solicitation of murder has always been solicitation of murder, just because it's spoken doesn't mean it's a first amendment issue. There's a difference between what you're thinking of and speech that's pure opinion, in this case it's protected.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 07, 2014, 11:27:29 AM
Nobody said it was, I said ChrisUFgator's comment was refreshing, after a page of or so of remarks that leaned toward 'kill the pastor' or 'the Christians.' I thought his tolerance is a great example of how to handle these types of thoughtless statements.
Exactly. Just as the gay community is allowed to assemble, have parades, etc, this whack job is allowed to think gays should be put to death, as crazy at that is. He had better not act on it, or even threaten any one specifically, but do you want to live in a country where you can't speak your mind on any topic?
So as I said in my first post, it's best to ignore these idiots. Remember the dumb ass in gainsville burning the koran? It's all for attention. Westboro baptist "church" anyone?
Quote from: stephendare on September 08, 2014, 11:01:54 AM
Im not sure where pushback against an opinion became an example of government interference in free speech, as it happens.
And I think its generally a strategy to stop discussion about bigotry by making the straw man argument that the issue is about free speech.
An argument about free speech must necessarily involve the possibility of government bans on speech, and no where was this suggested.
Just like when someone says that they have a bomb and are planning on killing anyone who eats at mcdonalds, its common sense that the person should be paid enough attention to at least keep a watch on them. They have, after all, clearly communicated that they have the potential to be dangerous.
The idea that you just simply ignore this kind of thing seems a little silly.
I disagree. I understand this is a post-9-11 world we're living in, but because any idiot says they want to "kill their boss" or "this mcdonalds sucks im going to blow it up" does that mean we need to get out the local militarized police department, have them kick in the (hopefully correct) door and put an assault rifle in the face of someone who typed something online?
Moreover, who do you suggest is the judge in what's acceptable? If I was to say I hate wal-mart and hope they go under, should that be considered a terrorist attack since it would seriously hurt the American economy?
I know it sounds silly and I'm not making light of your point, but I really don't want to live in a country where we can say whatever the hell we want. Again I refer to the westboro baptist "church" as my example. They're absolutely despicable people, but I would never want them to be censored. I would rather they just be ignored.
Quote from: stephendare on September 08, 2014, 12:32:32 PM
Like, "I do" at a wedding to your same sex lover, coredumped?
Exactly like that (except I'm not gay :) ) The fact the we need a "license" to get married is a whole different discussion all together!
Quote from: stephendare on September 08, 2014, 12:32:32 PM
Is there some governmental agency that you see depriving the pastor of his right to free speech?
Not yet, but I'm sure he could fall under the jurisdiction of Homeland Security, the CIA, NSA, FBI or other I'm not thinking of.
Quote from: stephendare on September 08, 2014, 12:32:32 PM
I don't think he should be censored, but I certainly think its common sense to pay attention to his activities.
Then by all means do so. Hell, go outside his church and protest if that's what floats your boat. I just think you're playing right in to his hands by paying him any mind. He'll sure enough get members to his church out of this, all due to the publicity.
I get it, but what's the remedy other than a law or some form of government action prohibiting him from spewing his bile? Which would be a first amendment issue no matter how you slice it. You can't just go kill him or beat the crap out of him, it would take a government official doing something to get the result you (we all really) want. All I'm saying is it's more damaging to start limiting opinion speech than it is to listen to a bunch of stupid crap from an idiot who probably doesn't even believe it himself and is likely using a current-events political issue as a means to incentivize filling the collection plate, as so many of these assclowns seem to do. After you do that, you're on the slippery slope of who's allowed to say what, it's not a good place to be. We've already lost so many civil liberties I'd hate to lose this one.
What'e the difference between this
"Megachurch Pastor says 'gays must be put to death'"
and this
"#The_Concept_of_Lone_Wolf_Attacks The time has arrived to respond to Twitter's management by directly attacking their employees and physically assassinating them!! Those who will carry this out are the sleepers cells of death."
http://news.msn.com/science-technology/isil-is-now-threatening-to-assassinate-twitter-employees-1