Anti-Food Truck Legislation Moving Forward?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3470410671_PFMwjPF-M.jpg)
According to Councilman Reginald Brown, this legislation was drafted to provide regulation of food trucks; and equally promote the economic growth of both the Mobile Food Vending and established restaurant industries without a negative financial impact to the other. However, will it do this? Take a look for yourself and decide.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-aug-anti-food-truck-legislation-moving-forward
I thought we just had this fight
^This is revised version of Brown's original food truck regulation bill that caught so much heat earlier this year.
I read through this -- we need someone with some insight to break it down for us. These are my questions:
1.) What are the new restrictions? Do they go beyond the currently required licensing for commercial kitchen and food truck regs? And how so.
2.) What are the new location restrictions? How will that impact food trucks?
Here is a copy the proposed legislation (from February) that was so strongly & successfully opposed:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-feb-food-trucks-to-be-legislated-out-of-existence/page/1#.U_Mn-GNqpco
For some reason, I thought this issue was done. I doubt the reaction is going to be any different than the last time he tried this.
WOW! Bring a tape measure.
The agenda meeting for Finance is 2 1/2/ hours out starts immediately at 8:30 am. And the full Finance committee meeting starts at 9 am.
Does everyone remember 2010-856 the transient vendor ban?
2014-412 - The Water taxi legislation was withdrawn at 8/18/14 RULES. How convenient.
Today 2014-305 New docking RULES and PENALTIES will also be in Finance and RCDPHS the question for this community and the state of Florida will be if Don Redman the Chair of RCDPHS will offer an amendment on 305 that would allow commercial opportunity on our Waterways on any existing and new dock, pier, kayak launch in our new CRA/DIA 4.8mile Waterfront zone from the Fuller Warren Bridge to the Mathews Bridge. Does anyone else feel sorry for the Baltimore guys?
2014-560 is active legislation that will establish our new 20 square mile plus CRA/DIA zone. 4.8 miles is a super restricted Waterfront zone unless changed by an amendment. RICO guys pay attention here.
I was at Rules and I heard about the 50' distance. Also someone in the restaurant business was called up and was asked about his thoughts on food trucks. He was positive. Another issue that I heard addressed was a food truck not disposing of his waiste properly and a food truck guy came to the podium and indicated that compliance will be initiated in some part that the good guys will be able to weed out the bad guys.
What I'm surprised about is the waiving of any responsibility by the lawmakers who are creating the Rules that we will have to follow.
It passed out of Rules unanimously. Stay Positive.
A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
It will Embrace Us
Quote(b) Vending areas. Mobile Food Dispensing vendors may vend food or nonalcoholic beverages from a mobile food dispensing vehicle in all zoning districts except the Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning district subject to the issuance of a zoning exception pursuant to the Zoning Code.
I find the above troubling. It reads to me to mean that a food truck must get a zoning exception to operate any where except a Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning.
QuoteMobile Food Dispensing vendors may vend food or nonalcoholic beverages from a mobile food dispensing vehicle in all zoning districts except the Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning district subject to the issuance of a zoning exception pursuant to the Zoning Code.
It sort of feels like it should read that you need an exception to operate in a CN zoning, but that is not what it says. What it says is that you can only operate in a CN zoning without an exception. CRO, CCG-1 and CCG-2 would all require an exception.
Doesn't that eliminate 95% of all areas of Jacksonville?
30 minutes out. Anyone going? Is even one candidate running for city council going to be there?
QuoteFrom Section 250.1201:
(e) Except where already designated in the Downtown Area and City Parks as set forth in Sections 250.1203 and 250.1204 of this Part, a Mobile Food Dispensing Vendor is not allowed to locate:
(1) On any divided road which does not have curbs and sidewalks alongside such road; on or in any median in any road; within any area which would block the view of traffic or traffic signals or traffic signs;
(2) Within 15 feet of any crosswalk; any building entrance or exit or any walk which leads directly from a building entrance or exit;
(3) Within 20 feet of any bus stop;
(4) Within 25 feet of any intersection of a public street, right-of-way, driveway or alleyway;
(5) Within 75 feet of any vendor who has been granted an assigned location permit pursuant to Section 250.301(a);
(6) Within 15 feet in all directions of any fire hydrant;
(7)On any property on which is located any established permanent business which sells the same types of products or services as requested to be sold by the Mobile Food Dispensing Vendor, unless the property owner or business owner of the established permanent business provides written consent to allow the Mobile Food Dispensing Vendor to locate and operate on the established permanent business.
QuoteSection 250.1203. Requirements to operate and locate Mobile Food Dispensing Vehicles in Downtown Jacksonville.
(a)Downtown Jacksonville is defined as that area designated within the boundaries of the Community Redevelopment Area (CRA) as depicted on the map in Figure 1 attached and incorporated herein also including all Downtown Overlay districts.
(b)Zoning categories referenced in Chapter 656 of the Zoning Code are not applicable to Downtown Jacksonville.
(c)Distance and location requirements for the Downtown area.
(1)All distance requirements set forth in Sections 250.1201 (d) (2)-(6) of this Part.
(2)Within 15 feet of any vendor who has been granted a permit pursuant to Section 250.301(a) and Part 10 of this Chapter.
(3)Within 50 feet of a permanent establishment selling food for on-premises consumption, as measured from a primary entrance of the permanent establishment to the Mobile Food Dispensing Vendor.
(4)Within 50 feet of a residential unit, unless that residential unit is development part of a vertically mixed-use structure with ground floor non-residential, as measured from the front door of that residential unit to the Mobile Food Dispensing Vendor.
(5)In Downtown Jacksonville, Mobile Food Dispensing Vendors are not allowed to locate or operate on any city Right-of-Way or metered parking space.
(d)Hours of operation in the Downtown area are unlimited.
The above are the distance requirements. The section for Downtown adds to the requirements so both apply.
It appears that this new ordinance that was quickly moving through Council is as restrictive as the first one, it just uses different language. It does seem a bit more friendly to Food Trucks Downtown than the Burbs, but then it seems to be trying to all but eliminate them in the Burbs. I think that if this passes as is, you can say good bye to all the food trucks you see in Springfield, for instance, even for special events.
Nah it won't be a problem, Strider, SPAR would never call code enforcement on anybody...
my understanding is that several food truck vendors helped re-write the legislation. There was discussion yesterday on First Coast Connect and the person from beaver St Commissary (where food trucks store their food) seemed to be pretty positive on the new legislation. I'd like to hear from some of the vendors before rendering judgement.
We want to be a metropolitan city but it just wont happen...can someone just look at real metropolitan and take some lessons from those who do it well?
I was at that meeting and heard some of the discussion. A food truck operator spoke favorably about the proposal, that there were always some bad actors that made problems for the people that followed the rules. He said that a number of truck operators were involved in drafting the new regulations. He also said that they looked at the regulations from cities like Seattle and Atlanta for examples.
Pat Corrado, a local restauranteur, happened to be there for another item, but was recognized by Shellenburg and asked to comment on food trucks as a brick and mortar restaurant owner.
Mr. Corrado said that he liked food trucks, frequently ate from them and welcomed the competition. "Keeps us on our game. Also attracts new customers to the area when I have my place." He thought that the fifty foot limit from his front door was fine.
We recently interviewed a food truck owner who participated in the process. His comments were from a few weeks ago and the interview is still a week away from publication, but here's what he said:
How do you think the City has handled the food truck legislation?
I was in full support once the process was opened up to allow feedback. I thought Councilman Brown listened to both sides of the argument and I think he gave everyone a fair opportunity to offer their input as to how the legislation should be drafted. It may be a little more stringent in some areas and a little less stringent in other places but overall I think there was some good give and take and most of the regulation is extremely fair to both food trucks and brick and mortar restaurants.
I strongly advise anyone who this may effect read this carefully and really make sure you understand what it really says. Even if you think you had input. What they say and what actually goes into ordinances like this are often two different things.
For instance, I do believe it says that to operate a food truck in CRO or CCG zoning, you need to get a zoning exception. Is that really what the food truck guys wanted? Or is it a way of all but eliminating them? Or a mistake in how it is worded?
Quote from: Rob68 on August 19, 2014, 10:43:15 AM
We want to be a metropolitan city but it just wont happen...can someone just look at real metropolitan and take some lessons from those who do it well?
Actually, Jax isn't alone on food truck hatred. Being that I eat a lot of takeout and food truck food I can say that NYC has the same issues. Many times a food truck will tweet their lunch location at 11am only to tweet again a new location because the NYPD made them move, which sometimes forces them to abandon area completely. I think the only places that have love for food trucks through legislation is the west coast.
I am surprised however that food truck operators helped on this because those distances seem to apply to everywhere downtown, kind of like a "if we don't want them here, this will allow us to move them" rule.
^Yeah, I'm sure if this were mapped, the exclusionary zones would dominate the illustration.
I don't know much about this issue but I think Lakelander probably is correct about the exclusions. My observation of the JAX form of "limited government" is to make most everything illegal and then selectively enforce for political and personal advantage. And one can't argue with Strider's zoning analysis. As written, only one zone seems to permit the trucks and every other requires variance even though superficially (ahem, yes I was guilty of that) it appears to say exactly the opposite. Good catch Strider!
Quote from: whislert on August 19, 2014, 11:35:10 PM
I don't know much about this issue but I think Lakelander probably is correct about the exclusions. My observation of the JAX form of "limited government" is to make most everything illegal and then selectively enforce for political and personal advantage. And one can't argue with Strider's zoning analysis. As written, only one zone seems to permit the trucks and every other requires variance even though superficially (ahem, yes I was guilty of that) it appears to say exactly the opposite. Good catch Strider!
+1
Quote from: thelakelander on August 19, 2014, 09:41:07 PM
^Yeah, I'm sure if this were mapped, the exclusionary zones would dominate the illustration.
Speaking of maps. At the 8/13/14 Jacksonville Waterways Commission it was announced and being distributed to all Waterway Commission members our new Downtown Waterfront zone maps. Who will be the first news organization to show the maps? It will detail who is in and out. Just ask the Balt. Guys or Vince Seibold.
As I said, the way this ordinance is currently written unless the lot you want to be on happens to be in a Commercial Neighborhood zoning, you will have to apply for a zoning exception and fill out this application:
http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/applications/application-for-zoning-exception-140701.aspx
Then pay the$ 1,009.00 fee, all advertising costs and $ 7.00 per addressee for the required notifications.
As this was written by Cherry Shaw, I suppose it could be just badly written and a mistake and that the intended purpose was to eliminate food trucks from the CN zoning for some unknown reason. However, Ms Shaw also wrote the Blight ordinance, the one everyone kept saying did not effect historic structures even when they purposefully changed language to make sure it did. In this case, it appears they are trying to all but eliminate Food trucks all over Jacksonville, giving a nod to a few Downtown and making sure it is as expensive and difficult as possible.
Those who have food trucks who gave their input and support to this ordinance, is this what you thought you were getting?
These deceptions are done by Council to make it appear that the public is being listened to all the while they are really bowing down to the special interest du jour. It shows us how little respect our elected officials have for the very people they are charged with serving.
I think it should be mapped out as to where the possible locations would be as a result of this, and if there is more than one food truck in downtown, where can a second, or third, or etc be located. If there is an event, or food truck day, why can't they be closer together.
Strider. Also the food truck has to hope that the exception will be granted. That's the kicker
Would a food truck have to get a zoning exception for each location each time they want to set up someplace? Talk about onerous. With notices and signs and hearings. sheesh, glad this ordinance is to "help" the food trucks.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 20, 2014, 07:23:09 PM
Would a food truck have to get a zoning exception for each location each time they want to set up someplace? Talk about onerous. With notices and signs and hearings. sheesh, glad this ordinance is to "help" the food trucks.
This is the wording from the ordinance.
b) Vending areas. Emphasis mine.
QuoteMobile Food Dispensing vendors may vend food or nonalcoholic beverages from a mobile food dispensing vehicle in all zoning districts except the Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning district subject to the issuance of a zoning exception pursuant to the Zoning Code.
So, the only zoning a food truck can be without an exception (other than downtown) is the Commercial Neighborhood zoning. To be in say CRO or CCG, you would have to be granted a zoning exception. Pay your money and hope for the best.
What bothers me is that someone from the Truckies told Sheclown that they had been at all the meetings and this is the best they can hope for. I fear the Truckies do not understand what this ordinance actually does to them.
QuoteSection 250.1203. Requirements to operate and locate Mobile Food Dispensing Vehicles in Downtown Jacksonville.
(a)Downtown Jacksonville is defined as that area designated within the boundaries of the Community Redevelopment Area (CRA) as depicted on the map in Figure 1 attached and incorporated herein also including all Downtown Overlay districts.
(b)Zoning categories referenced in Chapter 656 of the Zoning Code are not applicable to Downtown Jacksonville.
This section excludes Downtown from the zoning requirements above. To me, this ordinance only makes it lawful to operate a food truck in CN zoning or in the area defined as the CRA - which appears to be basically the Downtown Overlay. Urban communities like Springfield will be under the zoning exception requirements. No food trucks for events like the Cruise. Unless someone wants to pay the money to try to get a zoning exception. Then, as indicated earlier, the community can block the granting of that exception.
It makes little difference to me if this passes or not. I just would prefer if the city was a bit more up front about things. And would like to know the people effected know what is actually being done.
Furthermore, the zoning exceptions would have be done by the owner of the property, not the food truck. It is the lot which is zoned not the mobile device on it.
hmmm, I wonder what would happen if food trucks started selling dairy products just to register their business as an "ice cream truck".
I wonder if they could make a case that any food truck legislation that passes doesn't really apply to them because technically they are an ice cream truck and are subject to the same rules as any other street vender, especially downtown.
Probably not, the proposed definition for "mobile food dispensing vendor" is pretty broad but it does define a food truck as an entity that serves food for human consumption...that allows for some fun loop hole jumping if it becomes necessary.
If I remember correctly unpasteurized goat milk is often sold as "for animal consumption only" but it's winky face product. People drink it.
This is a link to the rules on being an ice cream truck:
https://library.municode.com/HTML/12174/level3/TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE.html#TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE_S250.1103ICCRTROPPE (https://library.municode.com/HTML/12174/level3/TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE.html#TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE_S250.1103ICCRTROPPE)
This is a link to selling milk legally "for dummies":
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/selling-goat-milk-legally.html (http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/selling-goat-milk-legally.html)
I would think for that to be possible they'd have to sell mostly icecream. Kind of like restaurants having over 60% of their sales come from food vs liquor.
I don't remember, does the Food Truck bill specifically exempt Ice Cream Trucks (250.1101 - 250.1104)?
Those sections don't give a minimum percentage of sales that must be "ice cream" (in all its variations as defined in the ordinance).
QuoteIce cream truck shall mean every motor vehicle from which ice cream, ice milk, frozen dairy products, ice flavored with syrup, or other confections are sold at retail and shall include all vehicles subject to regulation pursuant to F.S. § 316.253, as may be amended. Ice cream truck shall not include refrigerated, retail trucks which deliver pre-ordered ice cream or other frozen dairy products to a customer's residence.
The food truck bill does not say anything about ice cream trucks. The section on ice cream trucks doesn't seem to specify any special location restrictions for ice cream trucks.
this is the direct link to the ice cream truck code:
https://library.municode.com/HTML/12174/level3/TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE.html#TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE_S250.1103ICCRTROPPE (https://library.municode.com/HTML/12174/level3/TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE.html#TITVIBUTROC_CH250MIBURE_PT11ICCRTRRE_S250.1103ICCRTROPPE)
Stephen Dare brought up a good point at our community meeting last night...it is possible that this law directly impacts food delivery vehicles like, say, papa johns?
Anyway, I think the public needs to write the regulations on this industry. Both our policy writers and even the food truck operators (by agreeing with the policy writers) are destroying the growth of the industry.
I just started reading the linked below report...it's simple to read and I think, so far, it lays a pretty good foundation on how to handle food trucks and street vendors in general.
Essentially, don't limit access but provide more access. For instance, food trucks should be able to vend from metered parking spots. They can pay more for the privilege. We can make more revenue from a parked vehicle, why would we not do that?
http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/economic_liberty/vending/foodtruckfreedom.pdf
(http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/economic_liberty/vending/foodtruckfreedom.pdf)
Stephen, I think you may be guilty of an assumption that what was being requested by the committee was their input rather than merely their attendance?
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/food-trucks-party-operators-pleased-city-councils-/nhCmd/ (http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/food-trucks-party-operators-pleased-city-councils-/nhCmd/)
Glad they are happy. They may not remain that way as it still says that they need a zoning exception to be in any zoning code except CN.
Original: (b) Vending areas. Mobile Food Dispensing vendors may vend food or nonalcoholic beverages from a mobile food dispensing vehicle in all zoning districts except the Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning district subject to the issuance of a zoning exception pursuant to the Zoning Code.
Final: (1)On page 6, lines 19-23, strike subsection (b) in its entirety and insert a new subsection (b) to read as follows: "(b) Vending Areas.
(i)Downtown Jacksonville – Mobile Food Dispensing Vendors are allowed in all zoning districts as a permitted use.
(ii)All areas in Jacksonville other than Downtown – Mobile Food Dispensing Vendors may vend food or nonalcoholic beverages from a mobile food dispensing vehicle in all zoning districts except the Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning district subject to the issuance of a zoning exception pursuant to the Zoning Code.";
To make it a bit more clear:
Mobile Food Dispensing Vendors may vend food or nonalcoholic beverages from a mobile food dispensing vehicle in all zoning districts ... subject to the issuance of a zoning exception pursuant to the Zoning Code (except the Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning district).
For it to say what many think it says it would read:
Mobile Food Dispensing Vendors may vend food or nonalcoholic beverages from a mobile food dispensing vehicle in all zoning districts, except the Commercial Neighborhood (CN) zoning district which will require the issuance of a zoning exception pursuant to the Zoning Code.
They did make sure it specified that Downtown was different. Sort of indicates to me that this was purposeful and not a mistake that it should have been an exception needed to be in CN rather than what is actually stated. That food truck you really like that parks on CRO or CCG? Say good bye to it if someone complains.