Metro Jacksonville

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Downtown => Topic started by: thelakelander on August 04, 2014, 02:38:37 PM

Title: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: thelakelander on August 04, 2014, 02:38:37 PM
QuoteBy Max Marbut, Staff Writer

The combination of Mayor Alvin Brown's proposed 2014-15 city budget and the Downtown Investment Authority's proposed strategic plan has given two urban core developers a new – and positive – outlook on Downtown's future growth.
Sleiman Enterprises President Toney Sleiman and Mike Langton, president of Langton & Associates, were joined by Downtown Vision Inc. Executive Director Terry Lorince on Friday for a panel discussion hosted by the Downtown Council of the JAX Chamber.

The discussion was moderated by Jim Bailey, publisher of the Daily Record.

Bailey described Sleiman as a "big project, catalyst project developer" and Langton as specializing in smaller retail projects.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=543571
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: edjax on August 04, 2014, 03:00:24 PM
Looks like Jim is drinking the Toney Kool-aid.  Switch to the Shad Kool-aid.  Actually from what I have seen he is very supportive of Shad also.
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: ronchamblin on August 05, 2014, 02:27:35 AM
These tycoons ... the moneyed fellows ... arriving with mustaches and bald heads to "do" something big and good in Jax is welcomed by most I'm sure ... including me.

I've wondered occasionally if it is possible for these fellows to do something good for their bank accounts, while doing something bad for the downtown.  Could these fellows, by virtue of their money, and a measure of power, somehow rape the downtown ... the city ... abuse it so to speak?  Or ... could they simply screw it up .. their projects I mean?     

These fellows are willing to invest their money and energy to develop certain areas of the downtown.  As long as they don't extract excessive money from the city for their projects, what could go wrong for the city? 

What level of probability exists that they could somehow harm the city's long-term effort to build a dynamic and powerful downtown ... one having good infill with workers, residents, and visitors .. a mature city core ... similar to decades ago?  If the probability for harm is high from some opinions, by what mechanism could harm be done? 

I find it difficult to perceive of a condition wherein these fellows invest and make lots of money as a consequence of investment, and then for the city to not make lots of money too.  Profits in money is an important measure of the degree to which both entities have achieved their ultimate goals.

The only way that I can envision a harm to the downtown, as a consequence of allowing free reign, or at least enthusiastic assistance, to the tycoons, both mustached and bald types, is if their projects somehow cause a kind of imbalance or mismatch to what might be considered the ideal layout or design for a downtown.  Imagine a great meal ... a breakfast for example ... it has all the "breakfast stuff" ... eggs, bacon etc.  Then someone throws in some pasta or sauerkraut.  An imbalance or mismatch ... an awkward breakfast perhaps?   

In other words, imagine the extremes in the downtown, or at the shipyards, such as another large mega-church, in addition to the First Baptist Church.  Imagine another large sports complex ... in addition to the current Everbank field.  Imagine a large Disney type of "show", taking up the entire shipyard area.

The downtown core is not that big on the north bank.  There is the Jail and the police compound ... Maxwell Coffee ... Everbank ... First Baptist Church ... FSCJ ... the landing ... the two large courthouses ... City Hall.  The remaining areas are either offices or apartment/condos or retail.

I think the landing is set for a variety of uses.  I hope that the shipyards is not destined to become some large monolithic entity, as it might provide an imbalance to the north bank ... to the city.  Its encouraging that there are indicators that the shipyard area will have a large variety of entities upon it.  I certainly hope the space is not wasted on a large practice field for the Jaguars.  Surely, if a practice field is needed, it can be built outside of the core.

In other words, it seems possible for an investor/developer to build something that, in a year to two, might be considered by the community of citizens, to be out of balance, inappropriate, for the downtown core. This possibility is why some should be at least observant as to decisions being made about the use of the shipyards.  And I suspect some are being observant ... and wary.       
 
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 05, 2014, 06:37:22 AM
Ron... are you questioning sauerkraut and pasta omelettes?
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: urbanlibertarian on August 05, 2014, 09:05:32 AM
Both Toney and Shad will benefit by helping to make their area of DT a more inviting place for people to be.  I think that's a good thing.  COJ can only get hurt if it hands them big piles of money and tax breaks.  Let's not do that.
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: TheCat on August 05, 2014, 10:20:30 AM
Ron, maybe we should consider only allowing downtown development projects to happen every two years, perhaps?  ;)

Jacksonville has a propensity of removing "grit", which is where I feel the culture and identity of a city actually lives.

I think that is what you are saying about the sauerkraut?

If anything, I think our city fails in that it defines the breakfast (eggs, bacon, pancakes) and anything that deviates from that concept of breakfast gets banned.

Food trucks are an example of the breakfast platter changing and instead of embracing the evolution and opportunities that come with a bit of sauerkraut we panic and insist on the normal breakfast. We would sooner see our city fail than change our ideas of breakfast, actually.

Now, how about we discuss lunch?
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: thelakelander on August 05, 2014, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on August 05, 2014, 09:05:32 AM
Both Toney and Shad will benefit by helping to make their area of DT a more inviting place for people to be.  I think that's a good thing.  COJ can only get hurt if it hands them big piles of money and tax breaks.  Let's not do that.

Big piles of public money and tax breaks will be involved. The projects Sleiman and Langton are proposing don't happen without them.
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: Charles Hunter on August 05, 2014, 07:30:07 PM
Not so sure about the "budget" part of the downtown equation - City Council refused to raise the millage rate, and is talking about service cuts, instead of the Mayor's something-for-everyone-credit-card budget.  Don't know how the Downtown elements of the budget will fare.
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: edjax on August 05, 2014, 08:25:18 PM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 05, 2014, 07:30:07 PM
Not so sure about the "budget" part of the downtown equation - City Council refused to raise the millage rate, and is talking about service cuts, instead of the Mayor's something-for-everyone-credit-card budget.  Don't know how the Downtown elements of the budget will fare.

My guess based upon past history downtown elements will not fare well. 
Title: Re: Budget, strategic plans make developers bullish on Downtown
Post by: ronchamblin on August 05, 2014, 11:02:25 PM
Quote from: TheCat on August 05, 2014, 10:20:30 AM
Ron, maybe we should consider only allowing downtown development projects to happen every two years, perhaps?  ;)


Hello DaCat ... your reference to the "every two years" probably relates to my attempt, several days after One Spark 2014, to discuss certain principles about the frequency of events.  I recall that somebody ... I cannot remember who, came out of the name closet, and threatened to become my enemy because I introduced the idea of discussing the frequency of One Spark and the Jazz festival.  Although I think there is reason to ponder an optimum frequency of an event or a festival, I do not call the shots, nor do I recommend changing the frequencies.  My wish is only to discuss factors which might affect any possible changes to frequencies.
     
My first opinion of the individual threatening to become my enemy was that somebody was under the influence.  Then, it occurred to me that perhaps the individual simply did not understand my purpose, which was to discuss the factors affecting any decisions to select the "optimum" frequency of any event or festival.  I am honored that the individual with the emotional outburst considered that I might have the influence, through my posts, to change the frequencies of any events.  No ... I only discuss  ideas and principles affecting decisions ... which is a good thing in my opinion, as it encourages some to think about options they might otherwise avoid. 

But ... onward to the ideas about the frequencies of events and festivals. 

First of all, observe that the summer and winter Olympics are held every four years.  They could of course, be held every year, or every two years.  Why are they not?  The answer might lie in the time required by athletes and the cities to prepare.  And also, the four year wait builds anticipation and excitement, and thus attendance. 

Every event or festival, has an optimal frequency, as determined by its nature, its purpose, and the kind of preparations needed for it.  Most, it seems, can be comfortably aligned with a yearly frequency, although some of these could just as well be held more often, perhaps every six months.

The Art Walk monthly seems appropriate, given its purpose, and the relative simplicity of its preparation.  Is there good reason to avoid having Art Walk every week?  I think so.  But every three or six months would not be optimum for Art Walk.  I think we've hit the right frequency of each month.  For now, we need to engage people often with the downtown.

Is there good reason to avoid having One Spark every month, or every six months?  I think so.  And this has to do with its ultimate purpose and other unique aspects of it.

Music festivals seem to be the most flexible regarding frequencies.  Why is this?  I think the Jazz festival is set at about the right frequency.  I sense an awkward hesitancy by many to engage Jazz with full enthusiasm.  And therefore, I cannot imagine it being every six months.  i can however imagine it being every two years, such is my perception of a lack of enthusiasm for Jazz, as compared to rock, R & B, and classic rock.

I prefer the latter music types, and can imagine a successful music festival having this kind of music in our core every six months.  A music festival is relatively easy to set up, and most people love music, fun, and drink.  I can even imagine a successful music festival every three months in the core -- if it has the right performers.  And a good music festival requires no long term preparation from the attendees.  All they must do is get ready to unwind and enjoy. 

But what if we tried to have a big music festival every month?  Why would this be too frequent?  Time between events allows for recovery ... and allows for desire and anticipation to build.  The desire ensures attendance, which ensures success ... and money.

So ... what might be the optimum frequency for a big rock/R & B/Classic Rock music festival downtown?  One month is surely too often, and one year is too great a span between.  How about every six months?

One Spark has some unique aspects which affects the optimum choice for frequency.  I originally considered One Spark to be focused heavily on innovative ideas, new ideas ... projects having impact ... projects with some complexity ... projects with great potential for society and the marketplace.  Therefore, most of the projects, if they are unique and the result of creative investment in time, work, testing, and perfection ...  require "time", among other resources, such as money.

Let's say that a determined creator had an idea worth pursuing, but that it would take 18 months or two years to get it ready.  He or she would either abandon it because it could not be ready for One Spark in one year, "or" they would simply skip that year's One Spark and do the next year.  That will work of course, but it would seem a little awkward and disappointing.

Events and festivals can evolve to things not originally planned.  It seems to me that the established frequency of an event can determine the long-term shape and success of it. 

One Spark seems to be one of the festivals requiring more planning and guidance from the originators than most events.  Why?  Perhaps because it has a more defined and limited purpose.  The originators might attempt to keep it from becoming simply a fun "festival" of music, food, drink, craft displays, a social gathering ... a mediocrity perhaps?

How does the established frequency affect their goal of keeping One Spark on track to be a great event for matching creative ideas to funding and the marketplace?  Theoretically, One Spark could be a continuous event.  It could be in an outlying area business park, taking up several spaces.  But it would then be only ... well.... a mediocre presence, approaching a governmental office to assist businesses in starting up.

Having One Spark too often, as in every six months, runs the risk of not giving individuals enough time to prepare their projects ... assuming they wish to participate in every One Spark.  And every six months seems not enough time to allow for the desire for it to build up. 

In general, an excessive frequency of any event, lowers anticipation ... lowers its ability to excite and inspire ... and ultimately lowers attendance. 

I think they've hit upon the right frequency for One Spark.  One year is however, in my opinion, the shortest frequency appropriate for the festival.  Decreasing the frequency would, in my opinion, devalue it, push it to mediocrity, and discourage innovators who need more time to "do their project". 

Those who wish to have more events, for events sake, for the money, and the fun, might entertain the rock/R & B/blues festival idea ... perhaps having it every six months in downtown .. along Bay, and turning north up Laura, to Hemming.  We could have a mini mardi gras every six months.

There you go ladies and gentlemen ... the consequences of insomnia.   I'm ready for criticism ... and threats to be my enemy from those who are less inclined to verbalize their opinions.