QuoteThe Jacksonville Sheriff's Office released statistics Friday that give some perspective on the amount of violence taking place in local neighborhoods.
Just this month, 21 people have been shot, an average of more than one shooting a day.
Of those, six people have died. Foul play is suspected in five of those killings.
Half of those shootings occurred in the same part of town -- Zone 5, which covers mostly Northwest Jacksonville and some of the Westside.
Zone 5 is where the Sheriff's Office in recent months launched Operation Ceasefire, an initiative to curb violence and send a strong message to criminals.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/21-people-shot-6-killed-in-jacksonville-this-month/27023306
(https://www.coj.net/getmedia/a43e988e-642c-4cbe-9b9a-d77c91586482/ZONE-MAP.aspx?width=529&height=446)
zone map: http://www.coj.net/departments/sheriffs-office/patrol-division.aspx
What should be done about zone 5? Should the zone commander be held responsible? Should it be divided up in to smaller zones? You know Rutherford will just say it's a budget issue. Is that really the problem?
Jax is doing better than a shooting a day for July, this is not acceptable!
How many people are supposed to be shot in huge southern city in the middle of the biggest economic depression in many many years? Poor, uneducated, unskilled and pissed off about...what do you think is going to happen? I know...lets cut taxes so our schools ha e less money...lets cut community education programs..this city has been defunding and slashing this city for many many years and this is what you get...but I'm sure some prayer will help right?
How about more guns.
More Ministers,Prayer. More Reverently applied.
In the mean time,continue moving further and further away.
Just another effect of slashing 100 officers while simultaneously playing possum on the pension fiasco. Way to go, Alvin.
Nothing will be done to stop the root causes & the people in charge who push for defunding dont, and will never, have to live in places like that, so they don't care. Loss of jobs, dollar value, wealth gaps, rising costs of everything, etc of course all play into this. We're all being squeezed like oranges & the bottom of the barrel have no more juices to give, hence are deemed to have no value.
Instead, and without missing a beat, a call for everyone (including law abiding) will echo throughout radio waves, tv, online forums, etc to relinquish your 2nd amendment rights & if you dont go along with the narrative, you're a monster who must enjoy eating babies for breakfast.
Sound about right?
The same thing is fueling the violence in Zone 5 as is fueling the violence in Central America and Mexico; The War on Drugs.
Legalize, tax, use the tax money for treatment of addicts. Take the high profits out of the illegal trade and all of these turf wars here and there go away.
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 19, 2014, 09:45:35 AM
The same thing is fueling the violence in Zone 5 as is fueling the violence in Central America and Mexico; The War on Drugs.
Legalize, tax, use the tax money for treatment of addicts. Take the high profits out of the illegal trade and all of these turf wars here and there go away.
Yes. Overnight things would change. The War On Drugs is a misguided scam on the public whose intention and result has very little to do with reducing the distribution or usage of drugs at all. Addicted users need intervention and rehabilitation, not incarceration.
It is all George Bush's fault!
Sounds like we need an annual real life"Purge".
The Onion has a compelling idea, legalize brandishing your weapon at head level at all times. I'm feeling safer already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxlunxSZ-Yc&t=0m36s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxlunxSZ-Yc&t=0m36s)
Quote from: stephendare on July 19, 2014, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: IrvAdams on July 19, 2014, 09:57:18 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 19, 2014, 09:45:35 AM
The same thing is fueling the violence in Zone 5 as is fueling the violence in Central America and Mexico; The War on Drugs.
Legalize, tax, use the tax money for treatment of addicts. Take the high profits out of the illegal trade and all of these turf wars here and there go away.
Yes. Overnight things would change. The War On Drugs is a misguided scam on the public whose intention and result has very little to do with reducing the distribution or usage of drugs at all. Addicted users need intervention and rehabilitation, not incarceration.
Did things change overnight after Prohibition?
Definitely yes. Both going into Prohibition and coming out of it things changed quickly. Unfortunately, a good argument can be made that the most long-term damaging drug of all is now legal while many others of lesser impact are taboo.
So, all the people involved in the drug game will wake up on the day of legalization and go get proper jobs, becoming law abiding citizens?
Prescription pills are legal and taxed, more or less.. the tramatic effect of those opiates cannot be understated.
Quote from: AKIRA on July 19, 2014, 08:02:25 PM
So, all the people involved in the drug game will wake up on the day of legalization and go get proper jobs, becoming law abiding citizens?
Prescription pills are legal and taxed, more or less.. the tramatic effect of those opiates cannot be understated.
Many of the people arrested in the drug busts are simple users, not suppliers or operatives. They are not making a living pushing drugs, they are simply chemically or psychologically addicted. Put them through a program to relieve their addiction, and they very well can be working, contributing members of society. As for the pushers, well, legalization instantly puts them out of business.
Yes, prescription drugs are legal, and taxed, and most certainly over prescribed and overhyped by the pharmaceutical industry. How long do you have to watch TV before seeing an ad for a pill to cure or relieve something, or elevate your mood, or make you like people, or whatever. And all this is OK, but possession or use of a wild herb is illegal? Forgive me, I'm a tad puzzled.
No, you are wrong. Most arrests within a "drug bust" (tv term) are sellers. The users, be they weed or cocaine, usually get arrested for those things as a secondary offense, such as traffic offenses, theft, etc. The folks selling and running the nacrotics are not nice people who would otherwise seek legal employment, if not for the few measely bucks you get slinging dope. I don't personally see drugs as the reason there are some many shootings in Z5. I see the drug usage in that area as a symptom of the core problem.
The point in bringing up pills is to show a regulated drug that is causing a massive problems. "Legalization" is not curbing that problem... the draw to become addicted to too great.
As far as "putting people through programs" to cure their addiction... well, easier said than done.
Quote from: AKIRA on July 20, 2014, 12:28:20 AM
No, you are wrong. Most arrests within a "drug bust" (tv term) are sellers. The users, be they weed or cocaine, usually get arrested for those things as a secondary offense, such as traffic offenses, theft, etc. The folks selling and running the nacrotics are not nice people who would otherwise seek legal employment, if not for the few measely bucks you get slinging dope. I don't personally see drugs as the reason there are some many shootings in Z5. I see the drug usage in that area as a symptom of the core problem.
The point in bringing up pills is to show a regulated drug that is causing a massive problems. "Legalization" is not curbing that problem... the draw to become addicted to too great.
As far as "putting people through programs" to cure their addiction... well, easier said than done.
If Legalization cannot cure the problem of addiction (and I heartily agree) then how does criminalization help? How are we benefitted by continuing to selectively decide which drug is legal and what is illegal? Alcohol, Ok. Various and sundry multisyllabic pills and liquids for damn-near-everything, Ok. Marijuana, oh no. Evil.
Addiction does have something to do with the deaths but too much attention is being put on that...the maddness is mostly because of being poor and uneducated..parents who couldnt keep their shit together have kids who usually cant get their shit together and so on and so on..
Human beings are always going to alter their states of consciousness (get high) one way or another. Little children spin around in circles, adults use chemicals, fasting, chanting, meditation, etc.
Some people are going to become addicted to one or more of these ways. Making things illegal creates horrible side effects among which are raising barriers to helping people who become addicted and financing criminal gangs.
If people could get the drugs they want peacefully and legally that would eliminate most of the violence and corruption.
I disagree with dwindling down the problems of Z5 to criminalization/legalization of drugs, as I think that it is more often than not a myoptic and self serving proposal who don't have the first clue about whats actually happening in those nieghborhoods.
I agree that it can all be taxed, but considering that drugs (legal or not) will still cost money, where/how do you think addicts or the very poor is going to get the money to buy them?
Malt liquor is cheap and legal in poor, disinfrancised nieghborhoods. How is that taxible product working out? Lots of money going to alcoholic programs? Less violence? Not really.
If an addict has a legal and cheap means to suppy his need, why is he all the sudden going to see the light and find his way to helpful services?
You all make good points about de-criminalization/legalization, but also put that idea on too high a pedestal, particularly Libartarians with too much faith in the market and Liberals with too much faith in taxation.
So in this discussion, drugs are the culprit and cause of the violence....Maybe. But I bet it has just as much to do with the need for machismo. When men don't have much, they cling to what they do have in amplified ways. Don't have a nice house, family, education? A nice pair of rims will get you some respect and 'female' attention. Someone looks at you or your girl funny, it's 'dis' respect. And violence is called into play to teach someone the manners of the hood.
There is plenty of white collar drug use...and it doesn't lead to violence. I'm talking coke, crack, pot. Not that legal means are less harmful, just that to think only those in section 5 are drug fueled, is misguided. The violence is a direct result of not having anything of real value and not having a way to legally obtain it. 9 of 10 (my guess) of those on the wrong path would accept a $9.99/hour job. Not a minimum wage job, those are stigmatized in the community. When you can make better other ways.
For addiction treatment to work... the addict must want treatment... if not it is doomed to failure. Even addicts who voluntarily accept treatment...50/50 are pretty good odds. There is of course involuntary treatment. I think we call it incarceration. Legalizing cocaine, meth, heroin is not the answer.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 20, 2014, 03:47:34 PM
For addiction treatment to work... the addict must want treatment... if not it is doomed to failure. Even addicts who voluntarily accept treatment...50/50 are pretty good odds. There is of course involuntary treatment. I think we call it incarceration. Legalizing cocaine, meth, heroin is not the answer.
Getting rid of the black market criminals and organizations that import and sell cocaine and heroin is the answer to ending the violence and corruption that they are responsible for.
I don't disagree, and I'm for legalization, but Jacksonville has very high crime for a city of its size. Most drugs are illegal all over the country, and its not as bad here. why is our per capita crime so high?
Quote from: coredumped on July 20, 2014, 06:07:22 PM
I don't disagree, and I'm for legalization, but Jacksonville has very high crime for a city of its size. Most drugs are illegal all over the country, and its not as bad here. why is our per capita crime so high?
I don't have much issue with pot... cocaine? Meth?? Heroin?? seriously?
Yes, seriously. What if people found a way to get high on toilet paper, would you ban that too? No victim no crime in my opinion. Besides, it's not like people aren't ALREADY doing Crack.
Stephen, that is both interesting and hysterically funny! Good find!
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 21, 2014, 10:16:50 AM
Stephen, that is both interesting and hysterically funny! Good find!
I agree, but not as funny as the Mayor Bloomberg and the Giant Sugary Soda escapade. ;)
Not confined to Zone 5, but we're at 88 homicides this year! Way to go jax, that's how we attract millennials and companies!
QuoteThere have been 88 homicides so far this year, and at least 71 of those are classified as murders. About this time last year, the statistics were similar: 87 homicides with 71 murders.
In 2012, for the entire year, Jacksonville had 108 homicides with 93 murders and in 2011 there were 90 homicides with 72 murders.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/city-leaders-react-to-recent-crime-in-jacksonville/28978716
And what does the sheriff say? Give me more money! How about we give him money, and if the crime doesn't go down we take it away? Accountability, there's an idea.
Generally speaking, laying off 100 cops thanks to the mayor's budget doesn't do wonders for the crime rate.
When did we start seeing the budget for JSO significantly slashed and losing officers? I think it has been going on for a few years now, just not sure when we started seeing the major cuts.
What about this? Instead of three cops pulling someone over for speeding, how about one cop handle it. Maybe I dont know procedure, but it always urkes me that it takes 3 officers to ticket someone for speeding. The other two cops are just there sitting in their cars. I can understand if the cop thinks the situation may get out of hand, and just want some other cops there just in case. But why does it take 2-3 cops to ticket someone for not wearing a seat belt? That is resources that could be used better. Those cops could be somewhere else doing something productive.
Fund the Jacksonille Journey again and hire cops
Quote from: John P on October 07, 2014, 04:06:05 PM
Fund the Jacksonille Journey again and hire cops
And if we don't see a drop in crime, can we remove their pay or the amount of cops? There has to be some accountability - we have far too high crime for a city our size.
Look like the gang culture is slowly but surely festering it's way into Jacksonville. Some might say 'They are wannabees' but taking a lackadaisical approach is playing with fire. This is a problem in the black community that all spirals from poor parenting, not 'lack of police' and trying to normalize this, saying it's an orange vs orange problem in every community because it's not! Jax could hire 100 police officers, but no officer can be everywhere at all times. Then privacy people get mad when cameras are installed in crime hellholes...
As a black man that grew up in the hood, I'm passionate about the f*ckery in the black community. Our so called black leaders (Reverend Al etc) only care about making money off of white on black issues, and perceived white on black issues (ie Duke Lacrosse) The political excuse making has to stop, and people should be held accountable for their actions!!!
http://www.news4jax.com/news/tempers-flare-over-controversial-video/29311458
^^^I'm against criminals having guns. Do you always have to argue with me in every post? It's just because I am who I am...If I was BillyBob4443, you wouldn't have gave a crap....
Quote from: stephendare on October 24, 2014, 01:07:30 PM
Were the guns in the video real?
Were the video performers actual criminals?
Did people in Grand Park really get killed?
You are trying way too hard to troll. Something I'm taking very seriously, you're taking it as a joke...
Do not feed the trolls.
^^^It's enablers like you that condones the violent buffoonery in the black community that are the problem. If you would do some research, you would know that is is a serious issue not to be taken lightly. Have you even ever lived in the hood before? A job at MSNBC would be perfect for you, so you can tell everyone that the black community in the US is in awesome shape. I'm not one to easily get offended, but your ho hum jokey attitude with this topic is downright offensive, esp for a non-black to act that way. You dug this topic out of the pile (when no one responded) just to troll.
IMO - stephendare's energy is pretty negative for the average viewer who comes to MJ. This isn't to say you are right, wrong or anything else but you spend a lot of energy spinning people's opinion.
the video of whoever waving guns is a disgrace regardless of if it were white, black, or brown guys.
^^^Those people already made their own decisions, so I don't buy that liberal narrative. All kinds of poor people make it in life, with far less of an opportunity; Like immigrants (of all races) for an example. Like I said earlier, it all starts with parenting. Contraception is a major issue too, instead of having babies like a factory conveyor belt. I guess that you think of those people's concern's at the Grand Park Community Center are in vain...It's easy for someone outside of that community to make excuses...
I have to personally thank you when I see you for posting all my posts which includes me giving away tickets to the Paul McCartney concert, eagerness to see downtown grown including the expansion of the water taxi, and a sarcastic joke about the landing happening on Monday nights. I'll also thank you for living up to my perception that you love to create spin in your favor and one can read you put a lot of effort into it.
I found MJ to find some other local outlook from the papers and news stations. You get your panties in a wad so frequently that when I see your avatar I only imagine you jumping at your computer desk looking like beaker.
My intention with my post today was not to call you out in any way but it was just to say chill out man. The back and forth you go in with posters on this forum make you look bad.
My expectation is you'll spin something in this to make me look like the bad guy or delete me from the forum because I am stating my opinion of the experience I'm having reading the threads multiple times a day bc I like this site.
^^^Some people already made their decision, and they know that they will eventually be either be dead or in jail. Hopefully some will wake up and not live a life of crime. Some don't always shoot each other, they kill innocent people (the worst of the worst that I don't give a sh*t about). I don't think that we are gonna change each other's mind, can we agree to disagree?
Quote from: stephendare on October 24, 2014, 03:06:40 PM
Quote from: NativeDigs on October 24, 2014, 03:03:15 PM
I have to personally thank you when I see you for posting all my posts which includes me giving away tickets to the Paul McCartney concert, eagerness to see downtown grown including the expansion of the water taxi, and a sarcastic joke about the landing happening on Monday nights. I'll also thank you for living up to my perception that you love to create spin in your favor and one can read you put a lot of effort into it.
I found MJ to find some other local outlook from the papers and news stations. You get your panties in a wad so frequently that when I see your avatar I only imagine you jumping at your computer desk looking like beaker.
My intention with my post today was not to call you out in any way but it was just to say chill out man. The back and forth you go in with posters on this forum make you look bad.
My expectation is you'll spin something in this to make me look like the bad guy or delete me from the forum because I am stating my opinion of the experience I'm having reading the threads multiple times a day bc I like this site.
Well thank you for the advice, my guru friend.
If you look back over my 38 thousand posts, you will see a tremendous variety of tones, moods, and subjects as well.
However, I will not lecture you on how you post, nor postulate the funny as hell ways I suspect you look when you saunter by your IPad to weigh in on the meaty issues of the day (like ticket giveaways)---you know, in a positive kind of way.
For the good vibes, i suspect.
But thanks for the advice. It feels good when it comes from the heart, you know. ;)
Namaste, Good Blessings to you too!
If only there was a way to get good vibes from street thugs making videos brandishing guns.
- sent from smartphone ;)
Quote from: stephendare on October 24, 2014, 03:12:22 PM
I literally don't know what your mind is.
Are you for or against guns?
That is after all, what I was asking.
It's dumb to think that you can get rid of every gun in the country; That's like wishing to eradicate marijuana. *sigh*
Quote from: stephendare on October 24, 2014, 02:59:49 PM
So please keep your self righteous 'no one understands poverty when they are white' crap.
I NEVER said that...I took issue about you joking about the whole thing (guillotines/the French Revolution etc). Nevermind, you are hopeless...
have you seen the videos, incidentally?
[/quote]
Yes, pretty disturbing. I cannot understand the lyrics but my best guess is a lot of retaliation rap. BTW - surprised no incidental gun fire during the shooting.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/23-arrested-in-dismantling-of-jacksonville-gang/29325112
Quote from: stephendare on October 24, 2014, 01:43:11 PM
What does a RAP video have to do with 'gang' culture taking over a neighborhood and your belief that everyone should be armed?
Aw come on now Stephen,there you go again about RAP but in fact the RAP District might be a bulwark holding against Zone 5 phenomenon spread......for now at least! ;) ;)
Solution? JACKSONVILLE?
LaVilla
Brooklyn
Fairfield
What you hear from The JSO propaganda office might not be the truth..who is looking at the police?
it might be interesting if private citizens clock how many JSO officers are patrolling the north side Moncrief area...
If Rutherford put them on every corner and took some away from Westside tag running duty for revenue..he might be able to do something besides generate JSO income..
Quote from: I-10east on October 24, 2014, 02:04:03 PM
^^^It's enablers like you that condones the violent buffoonery in the black community that are the problem. If you would do some research, you would know that is is a serious issue not to be taken lightly. Have you even ever lived in the hood before? A job at MSNBC would be perfect for you, so you can tell everyone that the black community in the US is in awesome shape. I'm not one to easily get offended, but your ho hum jokey attitude with this topic is downright offensive, esp for a non-black to act that way. You dug this topic out of the pile (when no one responded) just to troll.
The notion that only a black person can care or understand what happens in troubled neighborhoods is part of Jacksonville's problem, IMHO.
I am female, but that doesn't mean my areas of concern and responsibility are female-related topics.
What happens in the northside of Jax, Durkeeville, East Jacksonville, Springfield is (or should) be of interest to all Jacksonville. We are truly only as healthy as our core.
^^^I never said that white people don't understand the black community. Read the entire section, and quit cherry picking off of one post then you would understand. I already cleared that up in the top post.
Mind you, I'm the person that said in the poor white community it's not that much violent crime (esp for the high population numbers) compared to the black community. I'm kinda envious of that, as I wish that our numbers weren't busting out the seams (of course that's not popular, so the liberals will find a way to attack me, because it doesn't fit their agenda...) I would NEVER say that whites don't no what it is to be poor. I think that the word 'white privilege' is complete bullshit in most cases; Not every white was born with a silver spoon, even many celebrities were homeless before.
Headlines for today from news4jax, 5 more shootings:
(http://i.imgur.com/lvcL8ta.jpg)
Folks, THIS IS NOT NORMAL! Look at Atlanta news (5x +/- the size of us) 1 shooting. Orlando (2x +/- our size) NO shootings, Tampa (3x +/- our size) 1 shooting.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/1-killed-in-westside-apartment-shooting/29377164
http://www.news4jax.com/news/possible-shooting-in-nw-jacksonville/29377920
http://www.news4jax.com/news/jso-2-found-shot-in-nw-jacksonville/29376402
http://www.news4jax.com/news/1-hurt-in-altercation-in-spring-park/29377714
That's just over night. How many will die tonight????
Quote from: stephendare on October 28, 2014, 12:49:51 PM
One in west riverside, one on the north side and two on the east side.
True, but it's still the city, a bit off topic for the thread I'll admin.
Quote from: stephendare on October 28, 2014, 12:49:51 PM
Aren't you one of the believers in ubiquitous guns for everyone, coredumped? Or are you not part of that crowd?
No, i believe in guns for law abiding citizens. We've seen what banning guns did in Chicago didn't we? Besides, I think we already banned murder, criminals will always commit crimes, it's in their job description.
The point of this thread is that guns are legal all over the country but most cities don't have this problem. I think we should hold the sheriff accountable. Of let's give him a trial run, we increase his funding but if nothing positive comes from it we take it away.
As of now there's no incentive for him to do any good.
^^^+100
Id like to know exactly how many officers actually live in these neighborhoods? Personally id like to see officers actually live where they patrol..actually get to know the people of jax...instead of being sent all over the town..how about relationship be developed..personally i havent met a policeman in any situation that doesnt behave like a prick..what ever happened to officer friendly...going up to a policeman to ask a simple question gets nothing but attitude..like im bothering him...yes theres lots of issues and everyone needs to be nicer to each other but it doesnt help when the peace officer is a jerk whoacts like youre bothering him.
Quote from: stephendare on October 28, 2014, 01:40:06 PM
No doubt the statistics would be much worse without them.
Speak for yourself, I have lots of doubt since crime has INCREASED since they've tightened up the laws. But we'll never know for sure either way.
Quote from: stephendare on October 28, 2014, 01:40:06 PM
And if you believe in gun proliferation, then this is one of the acceptable consequences of that belief, isn't it?
No, this isn't acceptable. Banning guns won't stop people from shooting them, just as banning murder doesn't stop murder, banning weed doesn't stop drug use, and banning alcohol didn't stop drinking. I don't know why that's so hard for liberals to understand. :-\ :-\ :-\
I believe crime will go down as "the war on drugs" winds down (huge failure), but in the meantime the REAL problem starts at home. Bad parenting/no parenting etc.
I'm willing to bet that the displacement of the killers (formerly living in impenetrable high rise hellholes like Cabrini Green, Robert Taylor Homes etc etc) now scattered throughout the more orderly suburbs had alot to do with that decrease in crime.
^^^You said that, not me. I can imagine that it was really a 'failure' to the people whose neighborhoods were suddenly ghettofied by the projects being torn down. To think that Chicago's gun regulations has any affect on the plentiful armaments of gangs like the Gangster Disciples, Black Disciples, and the many other Chiraq gangs is VERY naive. You don't have to like it, and I know that it doesn't fit the liberal agenda, but it is the truth.
Quote from: stephendare on October 28, 2014, 01:40:06 PM
And if you believe in gun proliferation, then this is one of the acceptable consequences of that belief, isn't it?
Oh Stephen, what ever will you do when 3D printers become cheap enough for anyone to buy them and print their own guns? Shall the
military police come knocking on everyones door to do searches?
Quote from: stephendare on October 28, 2014, 01:40:06 PM
And if you believe in gun proliferation, then this is one of the acceptable consequences of that belief, isn't it?
Like you can't be mad that everyone has guns and then uses them can you?
Wait, what?
Are you seriously saying "you can't be mad at murderers for killing people because you believe people should be allowed to bear arms,
to protect themselves"?!
I've read a few outrageous opinions by SD before but that statement just blows me away!