Metro Jacksonville

Downtown Revitalization: Detroit

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Downtown Detroit was one of the first cities featured in Metro Jacksonville's Learning From series in 2006.

Since that initial article, Detroit has lost 200,000 additional residents, Mayor Kilpatrick has been sentenced to 28 years in prison, and being $18.5 billion in debt, it became the largest municipality in U.S. history to declare bankruptcy.

Ignoring the negative national press, Metro Jacksonville's Ennis Davis returns to highlight a few successes this city has made with the ongoing revitalization of its downtown.


Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jul-downtown-revitalization-detroit

Thanks for the photos.  Still, Detroit depresses me.  Never seen a photo thread of that city where I thought to myself, "I'd be OK if I had to live there."  Yikes!

Great work Ennis! The Book Cadillac Hotel especially is a great reference for restoration of the Laura St. Trio, Greektown having casinos is fantastic, and as far as the Campus Martius Park goes - they have movie nights about once per week much like our Movies in the Park events were in the past (but we played more family freindly films than the one's Detroit plays ex. Jax: Brave, Who Framed Roger Rabbit; Detroit: American Hustle, Grand Budapest Hotel). But why did Movies In the Park take a hiatus this year? If it's a matter of venue, I think Campus Martius is a great example of how Hemming Plaza could facilitate the event.

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http://www.campusmartiuspark.org/ (http://www.campusmartiuspark.org/)

http://downtownjacksonville.org/marketing/Movies_in_the_Park.aspx (http://downtownjacksonville.org/marketing/Movies_in_the_Park.aspx)

These photos make Detroit look a lot better than Jacksonville.

They've made downtown revitalization a major priority. However, their struggling neighborhoods are a lot worse off than ours.

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When you see what the city is up against, if Detroit is finding a way to improve its core, Jacksonville has no excuse for its struggles.

Ennis, how would you describe the overall mentality/vibe on the streets in Detroit right now? Is it still doom and gloom, or have recent events (like Dan Gilbert's massive investment in downtown Detroit and the population loss starting to level out) given a sense of optimism that things are beginning to turn around?

Also, Shad Khan said a few weeks back that "a homeless man in Detroit has more mojo than a millionaire in Jacksonville." Any thoughts on this after visiting Detroit?

Quote from: Kay on July 09, 2014, 01:32:25 PM
These photos make Detroit look a lot better than Jacksonville.

I was afraid of that conclusion.
While there are great things we can learn from Detroit, they have had their share of failures. We can learn from those too. Detroit is one of only two of the forty largest metropolitan areas in the United States to experience negative population growth in the past five years, the other being Cleveland. There are several reasons for that, but Jacksonville has had about 2.18% population growth over the past five years, meaning people want to be here. Every city in America, Detroit and Jacksonville included, experiences success and failures and this article is designed to find the diamonds in the rough: a city like Detroit that has had so much failure can find success and Ennis did a great job displaying them. But better than Jacksonville? Take a look at these photos just to be fair.

http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit/ (http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit/)

Quote from: KenFSU on July 09, 2014, 01:44:09 PM
Ennis, how would you describe the overall mentality/vibe on the streets in Detroit right now? Is it still doom and gloom, or have recent events (like Dan Gilbert's massive investment in downtown Detroit and the population loss starting to level out) given a sense of optimism that things are beginning to turn around?

Also, Shad Khan said a few weeks back that "a homeless man in Detroit has more mojo than a millionaire in Jacksonville." Any thoughts on this after visiting Detroit?

There seems to be a good buzz around and in the streets of downtown. There's nothing but doom and gloom from many of the residents living in the struggling neighborhoods outside of it. There's also rebirth occurring in small pockets like Mexicantown.  That was one area, I'm going to have to explore a little more.  Basically, the same thing occurring in Jax's Baymeadows is happening in SW Detroit.

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Thank you, Mr. Davis, for presenting our city in such a thoughtful and honest way. It's good to see Detroit through the eyes of someone committed to the preservation and revitalization of historical spaces. As you point out, Downtown Detroit is rich in history, beautiful structures and sculptures, great parks and arenas, and many accessible recreational spaces. And in spite of all the media attention to the blight, crime, and loss of population that has plagued our inner city, Detroiters believe and are hopeful that, in time, our city will return to her days of glory.

I spent several days in Detroit last winter. Mostly inside a downtown hotel, but the little that I did get to see was nice. Visited an old historic neighborhood (not very close to downtown though...seemed like almost 10 miles away) with amazingly restored homes. The couple who lived there had reluctantly relocated from Chicago but were quite happy going on five-ish years. Their house was diagonally across the street from an enormous mansion, which they said belonged to the Ford family.

I wanted to ride the people mover but, like you mentioned yesterday Ennis, it only goes in one direction and wasn't useful for me.

DT Detroit, Midtown and Eastern Market are all pretty cool areas. Then you have really nice suburbs like Grosse Pointe, Bloomfield Hills, Huntington Woods, etc. Plus, you have a nice Canadian city across the ditch (with really nice adult clubs, er churches there).

Detroit is kind of the opposite of Jax. Nice urban environment, some really awful urban/mixed use neighborhoods and then some nice burbs in the outer ring.  Instead of a huge hole in the core, you have big holes in the neighborhoods just outside what is considered the urban core.

I have met some really impressive people in Detroit doing some really cool things for their city. That narrative definately rings true.

For those that dont know Detroit is the birthplace of techno music and the city has truly embraced this honor. I usually go every other year or so the Movement festival and love going. Some of the best record shopping hands down in the country and a city that totally embraces diversity. So many grass roots projects going on and such passion from the folks that live there. It is always a pleasure and I am hopefully too that Detroit will make it back on its feet.

I agree with fieldafm about how Detroit has a great urban environment that features sports, entertainment and cultural events for a metropolitan area that is over three times our metropolitan area's population.  We have our NFL team and Detroit has professional teams in all four major sports (football, basketball, baseball, hockey).  I visited Detroit to visit with family for the holidays and I was impressed by how much activity there was in downtown Detroit and its environs.

The Post-Post-Apocalyptic Detroit

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/magazine/the-post-post-apocalyptic-detroit.html

I shared this article with my aunt who lives in Detroit.  She said that she was grateful for the positivity.  I agree.  This is a very well-written article about the Motor City. :-)

Joe and I just returned from a quick trip to Detroit.  I was expecting Sarajevo of the 90s and while I saw the devastation of historic old homes being neglected and demolished, I also saw a vibrant downtown full of activity and energy.

First, the really awesome old sky scrapers -- made me think of Ghostbusters.  I didn't expect to see them.  Some are going to be lost, but others are being restored or are restored.

Secondly, there is a sense of hope -- like they have hit bottom and no place to go but up.  It is reflected in the public art and even in the graffiti. 

Finally, the notion that we in Jacksonville should feel sorry for Detroit is sort of humorous.  I'm sure to the average traveler, we are by far more pathetic.

One thing left out of this article:

The Motown Museum on Grand Boulevard!  A couple of old houses turned into a stage for a musical revolution --  that is truly an amazing story. 

Yes, I missed the Motown Museum during my last visit. Glad you enjoyed the city.

I have some photos to post, but for right now -- Marvin:

http://www.youtube.com/v/PycKSdKG_74?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param%20name=

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Quote from: sheclown on October 20, 2014, 07:03:19 PM
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Eastern Market near I-75 and Gratiot & Mack. I have family that lives right off Gratiot.

Quote from: sheclown on October 20, 2014, 05:46:52 AM
Finally, the notion that we in Jacksonville should feel sorry for Detroit is sort of humorous.  I'm sure to the average traveler, we are by far more pathetic.

How do you figure that one?? Jacksonville isn't talking about leveling entire swaths of housing all over the city, turning over abandoned areas back to nature, our residents can keep the water on, our crime & murder rate isn't nearly as bad, we aren't burning down housing every night just for kicks, and while we're corrupt, we aren't "Detroit corrupt", and we aren't consistently losing thousands of our population base on a yearly basis. Yes, they have hope, yes downtown is nice & not all of the place is bad, but half of Detroit literally looks like a bomb went off in it. Jax?? Not so much.

Great pics, BTW. But they don't paint the entire picture. I reckon if you went to the truly bad parts that are scattered all over outer Detroit to document, you'd find out real quick that our "bad areas" look like Disney World in comparison. If you even made it out alive.

Quote from: peestandingup on October 21, 2014, 12:32:22 AM
How do you figure that one?? Jacksonville isn't talking about leveling entire swaths of housing all over the city, turning over abandoned areas back to nature, our residents can keep the water on, our crime & murder rate isn't nearly as bad, we aren't burning down housing every night just for kicks, and while we're corrupt, we aren't "Detroit corrupt", and we aren't consistently losing thousands of our population base on a yearly basis. Yes, they have hope, yes downtown is nice & not all of the place is bad, but half of Detroit literally looks like a bomb went off in it. Jax?? Not so much.

Great pics, BTW. But they don't paint the entire picture. I reckon if you went to the truly bad parts that are scattered all over outer Detroit to document, you'd find out real quick that our "bad areas" look like Disney World in comparison. If you even made it out alive.

Bingo! It's just so popular on MJ to make excuses and be so ultra-sensitive for everything that's not local. To compare Jax's screw-ups to Detroit's is like comparing a Little League Team to freaking Major League Baseball! Sure Jax could learn some things from Detroit (and even moreso vice-versa IMO) but being an obligatory Jax masochist greatly fails to cover up Detroit's vast flaws.

Driving around Downtown Detroit gives one the feeling that there is hope more so than driving around Downtown Jacksonville.  In addition, while Detroit is losing large percentages of it's population in both it's outer urban areas and suburbs, Jacksonville is gaining population in it's part-of-the-whole-city suburbs. Yes, whole blocks in Detroit seemed to have been taken to or be destined for the dump, but they seem to be mostly outside of the Grand Blvd loop.  So, I think the valid comparison is downtown to downtown.  A large plus is that Detroit is putting in street car (up Woodward by the college).  It has a functioning monorail (People Mover), what seems to be a better public transportation system and at least in the core, both old buildings and new ones are being worked on.  As to the corruption, yes, on the surface Detroit seems far worse in that regard than Jacksonville...until you realize how many millions went through Jacksonville in the last decade or so and how little we the public benefited from it.  I also fear that we the public have yet to expose everything going on here while Detroit seems to have been pretty well exposed already, IE: Detroit's story has been mostly told, ours, perhaps not so much.  Yet.

Overall, I agree that Jacksonville must appear worse than Detroit does to the average visitor.  All of this must of course be somewhat tempered by the fact that Detroit was a much larger proper city than Jacksonville ever was or is. And that this is simply an opinion of an Average Joe.

True. I did not explore some area.

My opinion is based on the fact that Detroit does have a downtown. And they are adding rail lines as we speak.

Jax has none of the above.

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Youtube "Detroit ghettos" or "Detroit abandoned skyscrapers" and endless videos will pop up. Merely showing 'ideal pictures' of a city is painting a false environment; It's propaganda-esque, like the equivalent of showing Jax during One Spark and saying that it's like that all of the time. Detroit has 'more hope' than Jax, okay...Jax's downtown can easily recover from it's downfalls, but Detroit will never be the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRwJQXCyE38

To be honest, when we first decided to make Detroit part of this trip I started stating that we were going to Detroit before there was no longer a Detroit to see.  That was based on all of the hype of the You Tube videos and the various reports I have read.  But even the preservationist in me understands that some of that destruction must happen. My home town of Youngstown, Ohio has been struggling for decades.  Today entire neighborhoods are gone.  More are to be leveled. Why?  They simply do not need the housing nor will they in any stretch of the imagination for the next 60 to 100 years.  What else are they to do?  All we preservationists can hope for is that during the process they find a way to a reasonable plan to preserve as much as sensible and to do the demolitions properly and in a way that will encourage solid new construction when it is needed again. Detroit is in the same basic position but they also have a better base to build back from.  As I stated, we are comparing actual Downtown to Downtown  here, not the 'burbs, old or new.

That video, change the Detroit to Jacksonville and it would be just as accurate. Except that we have a tendency to take down buildings rather than let them sit.

Yes, Detroit will not be the same city in 20 years that it was 60 years ago.  I think that is a positive. Cities should change.  The problem I see in Jacksonville is that given better economics, hundreds of million in Federal funds and where are we?  Yes, we are not the city were were 60 years ago either.  But we seem to be stuck in this time loop and not moving forward.  Detroit is indeed moving forward and will surpass Jacksonville before you know it.

Detroit never being the same is a good thing.  Wanna bet that Jacksonville will indeed be the same as it is now in 20 years?  Unless we find a way to smarter leadership, I'll win that bet hands down.

Ideal pictures? 

What would be my agenda for doing so? 

Like I said, I was pleasantly surprised by Detroit.  I was hoping to illustrate that.

So shoot me.

Quote from: strider on October 22, 2014, 08:38:29 AM
Unless we find a way to smarter leadership, I'll win that bet hands down.

While Jax has struggled with leadership problems, atleast we maintained to stay as a functioning city(utilities, schools etc) which can't be said the same for Detroit. The far left politics has pushed Detroit backwards into an apocalyptic realm. That's why I like some things about both political parties here and there, and not liberalism gone amuck.

Jacksonville has maintained it's key companies, while many have left Detroit; Cadillac to NYC, Comerica to Dallas etc etc. I hope that I'm wrong, but whose to say that it's only a matter of time before the big three (GM, Ford, and Chrysler) head off to NYC, Chicago somewhere?   

^^^There hasn't been a Detroit Republican in office since 1962, the golden age of industry and auto boom (which the latter you think is bad, I know...) I'm no freaking conservative apologist, but let's get real here.. Does Kwame Kilpatrick not ring a bell?

^^^So now you are blaming presidents? I would mention NAFTA, but that's way too easy...So just forget about the local level of politics...You sound like Micheal Moore. I'm NOT a Republican, no matter how you try to label me as that. I don't have any allegiance to democrats or republicans...

Quote from: stephendare on October 22, 2014, 10:13:45 AM
Do you have anything else to add to the subject of Downtown Revitalization in Detroit?

So saying "Detroit is better than Jax" 100 times (even when no one said anything bad about Detroit) is adding something? Give me a break..

The entire point of this thread was that Detroit inspires hope in its Downtown while Jacksonville? Not so much.

I say that from seeing both the negatives and the positives in Detroit and while back in Jacksonville, I still see stagnation.

Downtown Detroit is moving forward better than Downtown Jacksonville is, just a fact.

I'm pretty familiar with both. Yes, Detroit certainly has its issues but their primary focus (especially the business community) appears to be in enhancing their heart (and growing out from that) and the revitalization of their downtown is a living testament to that. The streetcar project, several redevelopment projects, paying young professionals to locate along the Woodward corridor are things that are all privately driven.

This does not appear to be Jax's true priority (publicly or private sector) and what our downtown environment is today, is living proof of this as well. Nevertheless, this observation should not be taken as playing cities against each other or crucifying Jax at the expense of promoting another community. It's nothing more than a random observation on one of many issues that American cities are dealing with and addressing in different ways.