Should We Take Advantage of the ASE?
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In this guest editorial, a Mandarin resident shares his vision for the Automated Skyway Express with Metro Jacksonville.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jul-should-we-take-advantage-of-the-ase
This is one of the most unfeasible and unrealistic ideas that I've heard for awhile.
Half a billion dollars?
Instead of proposing that taxpayers vote for a sales tax increase to fund a massive expansion of an outdated form of mass transit (a referendum that would fail miserably), we could simply allow the mobility fee to do what it was intended to do.. which is to provide a local matching funding source for a variety of more cost-feasible modes of transportation that have proven to spur economic development in countless cities.
^Yes, it really is that simple. As for the editorial, I agree that a good chunk of it, like running the Skyway down Hendricks through San Marco and getting the public to tax themselves $500 million for short extensions, is absolutely unrealistic.
I think the writer has a well stated concept and I tend to agree that the system needs some expansion to be relevant. Any expansion should be made with pedestrian's as the target market, we've already killed the park and ride possibility with garages. Transfers to other modes should always be as seamless as possible, and the ASE could serve as a 'last mile' link for bus and rail. Having a robust streetcar/LRT system serving the Eastside, Campbell's Addition, Cathedral, Elbow, Water Street, Brooklyn area's on markedly different routing then the ASE, then both become more interchangeable and more practical. With modest expansion the ASE could easily be part of a decent interconnected transit system. It's either that or complete replacement, and replacement, be it conversion to light-rail or elevated streetcar or complete removal comes with a hefty price tag.
The fact is, the ASE can be updated with much larger, longer, off-the-shelf, monorail trains from a number of suppliers. Trains of 6-8 cars could operate on the current system provided they were walk-through or vestibule equipped. Stations with just 3-4 gates simply open the matching 3-4 doors and passengers can drift to the front or back as demand warrants. New stations such as the stadium or any of the termini could be built with the full 6-8 car/gates.
To nit-pick some of the writers points;
SOUTHSIDE: Even if you could run it down Hendricks, which has a snowballs chance in... WHY? Why, when you can go straight south, over the FEC RY tracks to the west edge of the current RR R/W and hence south to Atlantic? Easy walk to San Marco Square, Easy walk to Times Square/Philips. There is even ample room for the intermodal rail/bus/Skyway station at Atlantic and the FEC RY., which is perhaps the greatest reason why this station should be 100% ground level. This is one of the few areas where the ASE could be ground level for any distance as the tracks are not going to be crossed again at grade. There could also be a 'on demand' stop at the hotels, taking full advantage of the 'A' in 'ASE' (elevator pushbuttons anyone?). The need to get over the Acosta FREEway is critical, and I agree that the current San Marco Station must be connected with the medical centers.
EASTSIDE: Agreed, if we are going to keep it, then push it on down Bay to the stadium/Eastside area. I don't agree on having the downtown stations so far apart considering increasing density, renewed activity, and oppressive heat/rain. A stop at BOA, and/or Newnan, would be more in keeping with the 'people mover' concept of the original system. The Shipyards development could be key to making this extension happen. As far as running on the ground along East Bay, that would kill any future development or access to the waterfront for the entire distance. The stadium doesn't need stations all around, a simple Eastside station for all of the activity centers would do nicely... Hey and lets not forget there is a viable neighborhood NORTH of the damned freeway too.
NORTHSIDE: This route could be assisted by expansion of the VA clinic (it is designed to have an added floor) federal-federal funding would make it easier to achieve, but a landscaped streetcar line through the park might make more sense and be a heck of a lot more scenic and neighborhood friendly.
BROOKLYN: Why the median? Riverside Avenue already has a reserved R/W along it's west side for the ASE. I'd end it just over (south of) Forrest.
BEYOND THIS? R-A-I-L, BRT and EXPRESS BUSES + reciprocal routes with neighboring transit systems.
One key component that is required is more urban dwellers. Increase urban population. I agree with Ock to a degree that if you are going to purpose this beyond the core then the car format is going to have to change to accomodate more stops.
My overarching goal for any Skyway updates is it has to be part of a solid transit plan that leadership isn't going to change their minds on every election season or undermine it with special interest whims 10 years down the road.
No collective will. No leadership. Until we get it, we are flying into the wind.
Quote from: spuwho on July 08, 2014, 12:11:39 PM
My overarching goal for any Skyway updates is it has to be part of a solid transit plan that leadership isn't going to change their minds on every election season or undermine it with special interest whims 10 years down the road.
Hmm, like some sort of comprehensive plan? To make Jacksonville better? Only this time the $100 million for transit doesn't disappear...I like it.
From what I've observed living here for the past 9 years, for any real change downtown to be embraced we need to replace the old guard. Until then all proposed ideas will fall into 'this too shall pass.'
The funding of the $500 million would use up about 1/3 of a 1/2 cent sales tax. However, the federal government can fund $250 million and the state $125 million lowering the local to $125 million. This would be about 8.4% of a 1/2 cent sales to cover debt service.
The reason for going down Hendricks would be to avoid going in front of Landon Middle School. There is residential that you would have possibly condemn or disrupt the school on the other side. This also puts a station within a few hundred feet of San Marco and would attract a lot more shoppers.
The reason for using the median for the ASE and for having the Forest Street TOD/station and the LPS TOD/station on the east side is two fold. First Hallmark Properties does not want the ASE on their side and does not mind it in the median or on the east side.
The second is a station at Unity Park would need to cantilevered adding to the $8 million cost we will already pay for a station.
With the current system the BRT will intercept the ASE at several locations. The line from Southside to Lem Turner and I-95 will stop at the Kings Road Station and the Jefferson Street Station. The east/west line will intercept it at Central Station and Jefferson Street Station.
Quote from: brucef58 on July 25, 2014, 11:55:48 AM
The funding of the $500 million would use up about 1/3 of a 1/2 cent sales tax. However, the federal government can fund $250 million and the state $125 million lowering the local to $125 million. This would be about 8.4% of a 1/2 cent sales to cover debt service.
The reason for going down Hendricks would be to avoid going in front of Landon Middle School. There is residential that you would have possibly condemn or disrupt the school on the other side. This also puts a station within a few hundred feet of San Marco and would attract a lot more shoppers.
The reason for using the median for the ASE and for having the Forest Street TOD/station and the LPS TOD/station on the east side is two fold. First Hallmark Properties does not want the ASE on their side and does not mind it in the median or on the east side.
The second is a station at Unity Park would need to cantilevered adding to the $8 million cost we will already pay for a station.
With the current system the BRT will intercept the ASE at several locations. The line from Southside to Lem Turner and I-95 will stop at the Kings Road Station and the Jefferson Street Station. The east/west line will intercept it at Central Station and Jefferson Street Station.
A note to Ocklawaha: I like the Jacksonville Traction Company (token/emblem).
Just tear the ugly, obsolete boondoggle down and open up downtown again. Put all of the streetcar lines back in so that we can have a REAL transit system.
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 25, 2014, 12:23:32 PM
Just tear the ugly, obsolete boondoggle down and open up downtown again. Put all of the streetcar lines back in so that we can have a REAL transit system.
sorry, but no
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 25, 2014, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 25, 2014, 12:23:32 PM
Just tear the ugly, obsolete boondoggle down and open up downtown again. Put all of the streetcar lines back in so that we can have a REAL transit system.
sorry, but no
Better yet is the Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center in the CRA/DIA plan? DIA Board meeting 4 days out.
Yes