It appears that AAF is now setting their eyes on Jacksonville....
QuoteNew court documents point to All Aboard Florida service to Jacksonville
Court documents filed last week by All Aboard Florida and a newly formed related company point to the passenger rail's extension of its service on the Florida East Coast Railway tracks north to Jacksonville.
The new company, AAF Jacksonville Segment LLC, which was registered in Delaware May 29, penned agreements filed in St. Johns County June 18 that confirm its rights to run passenger rail on the lines from Cocoa to Jacksonville.
full article: http://realtime.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2014/06/24/new-court-documents-point-to-all-aboard-florida-service-to-jacksonville/
Makes sense. I attended a meeting in Daytona earlier this month where city officials and civic leaders were told to start aggressively lobbying for an AAF station of their own.
Now that is some encouraging news!
That would be nice.
This is great news even if they consider it strictly a legality to extend their domain.
Tampa will be bummed. They were really obsessed about being next.
Treasure Coast will scream bloody murder because in their eyes it will possibly mean more trains in the future unless it will be strictly a JAX-MCO link.
Since the infrastructure is already in place and owned by them, it makes all the sense in the world to move forward with Jax instead of Tampa. The Treasure Coast will scream bloody hell but there's not much they can do about it.
A quiet connection has informed me that this INCLUDES at least one daily Amtrak train, plus something is going on with 'The Palmetto' a Amtrak train that runs an entirely daylight schedule from Savannah to New York daily. A Jacksonville terminus could be in the cards.
Is the Amtrak train to pacify communities that AAF refuses to stop in?
So if they wanted to create a Jax to Orlando route the only additional track to be built for would be a SB to WB spur to connect with the new track they're building to Orlando?
I wonder if Daytona or St. Augustine get a stop? I wonder if the terminus will be Downtown or Avenues Walk?
Quote from: cline on June 25, 2014, 11:24:05 AM
So if they wanted to create a Jax to Orlando route the only additional track to be built for would be a SB to WB spur to connect with the new track they're building to Orlando?
Outside of adding capacity along the existing route, pretty much. However, I suspect this will be taken care of with the construction of the Orlando connection.
Quote from: JeffreyS on June 25, 2014, 11:26:22 AM
I wonder if Daytona or St. Augustine get a stop? I wonder if the terminus will be Downtown or Avenues Walk?
I can't imagine them stopping at Avenues Walk instead of DT. There's much more development, intermodal, and ridership potential with the old Jax terminal that Henry Flagler built. I was told a good while ago that there would possibly be a stop in Daytona and not St. Augustine. I hope that info was wrong. Both are great stops for ridership, IMO. I assume, if they move forward, they'd conduct their own analysis and make a decision based off the results.
Exciting news. Downtown makes the most sense for a final stop. However, I do know that future development at Avenues Walk has a dedicated site for a station.
It would be a shame if Miami got an elaborate new train station and large scale development while Jacksonville got a stop in a Walmart parking lot.
I know COJ is busy fighting over pontoon boats and covering up misspent federal money, but they should really be working with AAF to coordinate the use of the Prime Osborne and all of LaVilla.
Totally agree Lunican. By being proactive and forward thinking, COJ could potentially work a great public/private deal with AAF to really put together a nice compact transportation center along with additional development.
I'm pretty sure AAF would put the Jax terminal downtown especially with how they seem to be focusing on business travelers. Since travelers could easily take the Skyway to a handful of hotels downtown, no car needed!
Avenues Walk and other identified JAX locations are more for potential commuter rail, not AAF.
This (originally $180 million)..
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1000696568_CrSVc-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1619759799_h8vC9tD-M.jpg)
or this ($150 million.....most likely excludes the towers)...
(http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs/5385edd8f92ea1597c024892/AAF%20MIA_052314_AERIALfor%20web.jpg)
(http://www.som.com/FILE/20275/aaf_mia_680x510_som_03.jpg?w=680&h=510&m=e&c=tl&s=17)
No offense to anyone local, but I would be interested in seeing what AAF's crew would do with the JRTC site, if they had their way.
Quote from: brainstormer on June 25, 2014, 11:59:46 AM
I'm pretty sure AAF would put the Jax terminal downtown especially with how they seem to be focusing on business travelers. Since travelers could easily take the Skyway to a handful of hotels downtown, no car needed!
Instead of building a new transportation center, what if they looked at revitalizing the Prime Osborn? I know just about everyone in Jax would like to see it up and running again - and if the AAF is all it's hyped up to be, it could dramatically change downtown.
If they come to Jax, it will most likely be the Prime Osborn. Lots of land, center of town, intermodal accessibility, and right next to their tracks.
Fwiw, one of the guys on the AAF team used to work for CSX and lived in Riverside so he knows downtown Jacksonville and the Prime Osborne situation quite well. He was always confident about the Jax extension. I could ask him for more details but just haven't gotten around to it.
But then again... Considering their Orlando Terminus, a new station and development in Bayard is not out of the question! Just Saying!'
I believe the Amtrak thing is going to be M/L as Amtrak planned all along, however Amtrak will certainly be stopping in all of the coastal towns AAF blows through. Also look for Amtrak to split the trains in Jax again, YES DOWNTOWN and that is going to be another driver for the old Jacksonville Terminal site. Amtrak will send the Orlando-Tampa sections down the 'A' line along Roosevelt, and the Miami trains down the FEC. The losers in this will be Lake Wales, Sebring and Okeechobee, unless the state steps in with a state run train which given their record is unlikely.
St. Augustine is the FEC RY's ancestral home and would be very hard for them to miss, add to that 6 Million visitors a year is nothing to sneeze at.
I expect AAF to go interstate once the JAX extension is done, so they can interline ticketing with Amtrak (assuming Amtrak survives). The Joint operating deal with Norfolk Southern may also play a huge part in a JAX expansion, as the next segment would be Atlanta. Frankly I worry about JAX being able to fill many seats, though I don't expect anything like the frequency of the Orlando-Miami service, unless/until Atlanta is added. Amtrak's biggest obstacle is going to be survival in the retaliation against the Democrats in the next two elections.
ProjectMaximus, was that H. Cumber?
Quote"For some reason my presentation doesn't include Jacksonville. Where do I get an updated version or is that phase 2?" asked an enthusiastic Sen. Aaron Bean, R-Fernandina Beach, during the Oct. 7 meeting.
Rusty Roberts, vice president for All Aboard Florida's parent company, Florida East Coast Industries, told the committee that Jacksonville and Tampa are possible connections once the Miami to Orlando route, which he called the "moneymaker system," is successful.
"We're happy to spend the money if we can afford it, we just ask government to kind of get out of the way," Roberts said. "I would say to those cities just wait and be patient and we'll get there."
full article: http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/business/jacksonville-next-stop-for-all-aboard-florida/ngRpF/#02806108.3803410.735409
Quote from: brainstormer on June 25, 2014, 11:59:46 AM
Totally agree Lunican. By being proactive and forward thinking, COJ could potentially work a great public/private deal with AAF to really put together a nice compact transportation center along with additional development.
there have been discussions with local agencies (City and JTA)
Oh and make NO MISTAKE, this is where the Cocoa-Rockledge station bounces back to life. There is no way they'll be blowing through Cocoa-Rockledge when passengers can go in two directions from there on any train.
Having Amtrak do the split at Jacksonville and send the Miami train down the FEC would make some sense. Amtrak is required to pay for their use of legacy rails and if anything, it would silence the silliness coming out of the Treasure Toast (pun intended) as they would get their stops in Stuart and elsewhere.
But it would be funny if an Amtrak announcement would stop the complaints, because in essence that would add 2 more trains daily to the route which is what they are beefing about to begin with.
Well, we all knew this was coming sooner or later. I am pretty confident the stop will be downtown at Jacksonville Terminal. Big things could happen as far as any land development goes. Time will tell.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 25, 2014, 01:14:53 PM
ProjectMaximus, was that H. Cumber?
Nope, I'm talking about a young guy Mike who is "Operations Planner" for AAF. He lived in Jax for about 2.5 years and spent the first 6 months with AAF commuting from Jacksonville every week. I think I've seen him just once since he moved down to Miami but we have many mutual friends.
Do we really not pay attention to what happens regionally around us? This privately funded AAF passenger rail project has been a part of the national news scene for two years now...
QuoteAccording to the documents, that rail line could extend now from Cocoa to Jacksonville.
"It could be positive. I don't know anything about it," said Jacksonville City Councilman Bill Gulliford.
Gulliford wasn't the only city leader who didn't know about the plans. The spokesman for Mayor Alvin Brown didn't know anything either. Neither did anyone in St. Johns County, where the documents were filed. While leaders we spoke with agreed it sounds like a good idea, there's one question.
"The big question is who pays for it," said Gulliford. All Aboard wouldn't give any details about the plan, only issuing this statement saying, "The documents filed clarify AAF's ownership rights to provide passenger rail service in the FEC corridor."
That means for now, people in Northeast Florida are left to wait and wonder if high-speed rail will ever leave the station in Northeast Florida.
See more at: http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/documents-filed-clerk-indicate-high-speed-rail-pla/ngTJQ/#sthash.4GNgGAUu.dpuf
Like I said earlier... they are thinking about pontoon boats.
Wonder who they talked to in St. Johns County? I imagine Nancy Sikes-Kline knows about it.
And, "high-speed rail" - it isn't really HSR, is it?
They were also stunned to learn that extensive construction was happening on interstate 95 near the bridge.
The mayor doesn't know about this? Shocker. Honestly I'd be surprised if the City Council did know; they've got their hands full cleaning up after the mayor.
Apparently we are incapable of multi-talking. Reminds me of Peyton.
LOL JeffreyS. ;D
It amazes me that for most forum members, being a part of MetroJacksonville is kind of a hobby. We have jobs outside of city government and personal lives too. I consider most of us pretty well informed about our community and even surrounding communities.
When it is actually your PRIMARY JOB to run the city and you haven't the slightest clue about what is going on around you, then I question your ability to do your job. One of Mayor Brown's biggest downfalls was that he surrounded himself with incompetent people. I won't name the names but we know who they are. There are a number of departments that have terrible leaders and he hasn't held one of them accountable in his years as mayor. To me that is the sign of a weak leader.
So historic to get trains stopping in downtown again leaders should know absolutely everything.
Also, would be nice to hear "how can we make this happen" as opposed to "who is going to pay for it" out of the gate.
Completely agree Jdog. Gulliford is so clueless he doesn't even know AAF is private development. Look at the stations AAF is building in other cities. I bet with their money we could restore the Prime to its original intent and end up with something really neat. With a compact transportation center Greyhound will surely be back on board. Our leaders wouldn't know a good thing if it smacked them upside the head.
Action News is suppose to have a story on 5o'clock edition per Varnum twitter
Updated story on JBJ and FEC states the easement filing is simply an extension of one granted in 2007. No plans to extend to Jax.
The reason why is because generally, this Council has just administrated (or tried to). I feel like with Brown, he's just tried to administrate (better at times than others). However (with the exception of Brown and sporting events), nobody seems to be trying to drive the bus to a specific destination. There doesn't appear to be a lot of vision, just desired. Vision and desire are not the same thing. Vision is knowing a destination and articulating a plan to get there. Desire is the equivalent of the 9 year old on Santa's lap telling Santa he "wants stuff."
If we want to be the city we know we all can be, we need someone with a vision; someone to be a champion of things.
Hey Lake,
Didn't AAF have a briefing up at the Jax FDOT offices last year to walk through the plans?
Rep. Alan Bean knows about it, he is the one asking to help them out and they turned him down.
Quote from: edjax on June 27, 2014, 05:00:06 PM
Updated story on JBJ and FEC states the easement filing is simply an extension of one granted in 2007. No plans to extend to Jax.
LOL, at Jacksonville media.
To the Jax Business Journal: Yes, there are no plans for light rail.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/06/27/local-court-documents-are-not-plans-for-light.html
To Action News Jax: Yes, there are no plans for high speed rail either. AAF is intercity rail.
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/documents-filed-clerk-indicate-high-speed-rail-pla/ngTJQ/
To the idea that this is just a reinstatement of an access easement given to AAF in 2007. AAF wasn't around in 2007. Obama hadn't even been elected, to even suggest the feds would fund HSR between Orlando and Tampa.
QuoteBut Robert Ledoux, general counsel for Florida East Coast Railway, told the Jacksonville Business Journal the easement is just a restatement of one issued in December 2007 giving All Aboard Florida the right to use Florida East Coast's rail system if it chooses.
Ledoux said there are no plans to do so. "There is no budget, no plans, there has been no discussion with us," he said.
Ledoux said there are similar easements between Miami to West Palm and West Palm to Cocoa. He said All Aboard Florida has said it may consider expanding to Jacksonville but first wanted to see how connecting Orlando to Miami went.
For anyone who has followed this thing since 2012, it basically tells you what you already know. These guys have their eyes set on extending the service up to Jax, assuming the first phase between Orlando and Miami turns out to be a success.
I tried to reach out to some press in Tampa and the Treasure Toast for a response and got a collective yawn.
It's a laugher when its a topic of discussion in the chambers in the City of Tampa that Jacksonville might be next, but our city fathers know nothing.
That is bad.
knowing nothing and saying nothing aren't the same thing...clearly there are folks in City government that are in the know...and the folks that really matter in this right now is JTA, who is definitely up to speed on the issue.
nice try, but no. As in there have been high-level talks, but lips are sealed.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 27, 2014, 09:08:33 PM
nice try, but no. As in there have been high-level talks, but lips are sealed.
http://www.youtube.com/v/r3kQlzOi27M
The Daytona politicos know. They've been informed that that it would be a good idea for them to go on the aggressive to make sure they end up with a stop.
QuoteWagner: Use Daytona As Hub For SunRail And All Aboard Florida
Daytona Beach, FL – Could Daytona Beach become a stopping point for both SunRail and the proposed All Aboard Florida train?
That's the vision of at least 1 member of the Volusia County Council.
In an interview on WNDB's Marc Bernier show on Monday, District 2 Councilman Josh Wagner said he wants to see a study done on the possible impact of an All Aboard Florida train stop somewhere in Daytona Beach.
All Aboard Florida is a private venture which promises high-speed train service from Miami to Jacksonville.
Wagner says he'd like to see that analysis piggy-backed onto the SunRail study already being done on a possible expansion to the Daytona Beach area from the DeLand station being planned as part of SunRail's Phase II.
"The key is, can we put in as part of the analysis the north-south numbers?" Wagner added. "Because that would give us what we need initially to get the conversation going."
Wagner sees the Daytona Beach International Airport being a possible meeting point for both SunRail and All Aboard Florida users. To save on costs, Wagner suggests using the current Florida East Coast commuter line as a way to connect the All Aboard Florida service from North Florida to South Florida.
http://newsdaytonabeach.com/wagner-use-daytona-as-hub-for-sunrail-and-all-aboard-florida/
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/44150b5c-09f2-4e1f-92fa-e9ac6f5e6582_zpsfa5301f2.png)
For those who don't know, here are the railroads, railroads past and railroads future in Central Florida.
YELLOW are abandoned railroads with significant segments of right-of-way intact, in state or county hands, or largely usable (though some do have built over sections but nothing a few curves couldn't fix)
I left out the 'DINKY' line that ran from Oviedo to Winter Park, as there is really nothing left of it and it's almost 100% built over. You can see a small piece of the R/W on the map where the line from Sanford (the more eastern one) to Oviedo, doubles back toward Winter Park. I also left off the Sanford/Mount Dora line as it is going to be under a freeway.
RED are the current railroads, FEC/CSX/NASA/SUNRAIL/FLORIDA CENTRAL The cropping didn't end right, but consider that from right to left:
1.) the red lines near the bottom of the photo continue on to Miami (red FEC/AAF)
2.) the yellow line continued to south of Lake Okeechobee
3.) the red line moving to the bottom/left ends in St. Petersburg
*) Both red lines ending at the top of the page go on to Jacksonville and beyond, fanning out in every direction from JAX.
TEAL are the planned railroads, both NASA/Port Canaveral and AAF
** Add to this the FACT that the post-modern station (circa 1960 and closed in 3 years) at Cocoa-Rockledge still stands, it is modern, all brick, huge parking lot, and sits about where the word ROCKLEDGE passes through the red line on the map.
Note how any trains moving from Miami to Orlando/Jax or the reverse, would virtually have to use this station for transfers. This is why I keep saying, Cocoa can chill, it's coming baby!
Add to this several broad electric transmission lines from Daytona to the Oviedo Area, highway medians, etc.. and there are lots of options.
OCK!