Marcus Lemonis plans to move Sweet Pete's into the Seminole Club building by the end of the year. Now he's interested in the other two historic buildings adjacent to the Seminole Club. He's purchasing the 5-story, Florida Baptist Convention Building for $350k. According to the FTU, he'd love to demolish and turn it into a park, since there aren't any nearby (what's Hemming? :-\) but the city won't let him because it's a local historic landmark.
Florida Baptist Convention Building - 218 W. Church St.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1146-p1000739.JPG)
In the FTU article, his director of construction claims he hasn't been inside the Florida Baptist Convention Building because it's not safe. Yes, it's missing some windows and some face brick has fallen off a back wall but I seriously doubt that reinforced concrete building is in danger of a complete collapse.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1148-p1000744.JPG)
He's also interested in the Old Federal Reserve Bank Building. He imagines turning it into a B&B if he can get his hands on it.
Old Federal Reserve Bank Building - 424 N. Hogan St.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1147-p1000743.JPG)
Article: http://members.jacksonville.com/business/2014-06-04/story/theres-future-historic-baptist-convention-building-downtown (behind paywall)
In fairness, he said "green space". And he's right about that, as Hemming is mostly hardscaped......though hopefully more green space will return to the park/plaza.
I think it's pretty cool he's taken such an interest in DT Jax. Has he made other similar investments?
Green space=parking lot.
"it's not safe" is most often the excuse for demolition rather than true fact. Perhaps Mr. Lemonis just needs educated better on the value of landmarked buildings.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on June 05, 2014, 06:41:29 AM
In fairness, he said "green space". And he's right about that, as Hemming is mostly hardscaped......though hopefully more green space will return to the park/plaza.
I think it's pretty cool he's taken such an interest in DT Jax. Has he made other similar investments?
Assuming it's really about green space (which I doubt), it's much cheaper to replace the hard space, between the Skyway and soldier monument with grass, instead of paying $350k for something and then additional cash to demolish. There's also this thing that's two blocks west....
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Street-Scenes/Duval-County-Courthouse-Square/i-mMPDBMr/0/M/P1560463-M.jpg)
I wouldn't be quite so hard on Lemonis. He clearly knows he can't tear it down but he bought it anyway. That's a pretty good sign that he'll do something with it. It's certainly a mess now.
So this seems like a positive move.
Downtown needs more park space? Seriously? Hemming Plaza has potential. The lawn in front of the new courthouse will look beautiful within a few years as those trees mature and Confederate Park is neglected and underutilized. Then there is the Riverwalk and that big park across from the stadium right on the river.
Quote from: fieldafm on June 05, 2014, 06:50:00 AM
Green space=parking lot.
I too believe this so called "green space" will be a parking lot with trees, maybe a few benches so people who are too exhausted to walk all the way from their car to Sweet Pete's and back and sit down and eat.
Heere we go again... He's looking to save 2 of the 3 buildings, but the loudest voices won't be happy unless everything is saved (it's like RAP 2.0 on here sometimes). That building is ugly anyways and compared to many other buildings doesn't offer any real architectural mastery. How much is it going to cost to restore that piece of crap, another $400k? I say let him buy all 3 and create his green space. It would only beautify the area and help both businesses. People at the B&B would have a place to relax and those leaving SP's could have a nice park to eat their sweets in. Let's choose our battles here and focus on saving buildings that will actually enhance the downtown experience.
A protected park for patrons of his business would be a much nicer / safer place to eat than the homeless shelter that is Hemming Plaza.
Again I ask. How much is it going to cost to restore this building? If he isn't allowed to tear it down it's not going to have a positive impact sitting there in it's current condition. Businesses aren't exactly flocking to downtown looking to save these dilapidated buildings. It wouldn't hurt to have another nice park. If you're scared of having another parking lot then add a clause to his contract that prevents him from using the site as surface parking.
Quote from: river4340 on June 05, 2014, 09:01:12 AM
I wouldn't be quite so hard on Lemonis. He clearly knows he can't tear it down but he bought it anyway. That's a pretty good sign that he'll do something with it. It's certainly a mess now.
So this seems like a positive move.
I wasn't being hard on the guy. I'm glad he purchased it and is trying to get the remaining buildings on that block. I was just sharing his conceptual plans and ideas for the site, while providing another narrative to the story that can generate a more productive outcome.
First, the building isn't going to collapse just because some none structural brick has fallen off the side from decades of not being properly maintained. Thus, the narrative that it's not safe to walk in (justifying demo) should die a quite death.
Second, downtown doesn't need more public space. Instead we need to better utilize the adjacent spaces we already have. If it's green people want, there's no reason this:
(https://crowdly-uploads-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/venue_photo/image/91/Hemming_4.jpg)
can't become this:
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6000-p1140107.JPG)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968212129_s7ekF-M.jpg)
We don't need to really seriously entertain more discussion about destroying the little that's left in DT to create more "green" space. Just a little more collaboration and open conversation instead of every single entity moving in different isolated directions.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 05, 2014, 09:47:31 AM
That building is ugly anyways and compared to many other buildings doesn't offer any real architectural mastery.
Ugly? No architectural mastery? *Sigh* The lack of taste or respect for this classic Klutho are why we don't have nice things any more. You'd think people would learn at some point, but...
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 05, 2014, 10:04:21 AM
Again I ask. How much is it going to cost to restore this building? If he isn't allowed to tear it down it's not going to have a positive impact sitting there in it's current condition. Businesses aren't exactly flocking to downtown looking to save these dilapidated buildings. It wouldn't hurt to have another nice park. If you're scared of having another parking lot then add a clause to his contract that prevents him from using the site as surface parking.
Just about every successful and vibrant downtown or historic urban neighborhood in America today once had abandoned buildings that were falling down. Most of these places once had conventional wisdom that nobody will invest money into the place and nobody really cares and it just makes the whole place look bad.
Much was once said of Riverside with and now look at the neighborhood.
These buildings should be saved until they can be restored and/or adaptive reuse. If the owners refuse to maintain the building in a structurally sound condition, then fine them, once they get enough fines, they'll either fix the place up or sell it for whatever they can get for it. Very few downtown buildings are in so bad condition that onlycharity can save it.
This building could have street level retail with affordable rents for struggling buisnesses on a shoestring budget. The places upstairs could become apartments or even maybe dorms for UNF. Obviously it's easier said then done but this is not rocket science, adaptive reuses like this are happening if urban neighborhoods all over the country.
Get college students or artists living there with cheap rent means they and their friends will be around downtown all hours of the day and night with extra money to spend in downtown bars and restaurants.
Look at the surrounding area. It's the worst spot in the immediate core of downtown. That entire block, the entire block west of it, half of the block north of it and the entire block north of that...are all empty dilapidated buildings that do nothing but house vagrants and create a cancerous eyesore. If this was the old JEA building, sure, hold out a little while longer and hope someone fixes it. But this building... What historical significance does this building have? What benefit will it bring to the area sitting there in it's current condition for another indefinite amount of time?
QuoteBut this building... What historical significance does this building have?
^Last office building designed by HJ Klutho.
QuoteLook at the surrounding area. It's the worst spot in the immediate core of downtown.
I've always thought this area offers some of the best potential. It's walkable, has a great mix of historic architecture, adjacent to Hemming, etc. Great adaptive reuse possibilities if we can get our act together. DT's worse spots to me are what's left of LaVilla, Railroad Row and Main Street.
Vibrant and historical neighborhoods are much more than just trophy buildings. There is a fabric to a city. While I'm no fan of the Florida Baptists, let's face it, they were hugely influential in Jacksonville and throughout Florida. We can't just preserve buildings where in one moment in time a life altering event happened or a legend once resided. We are more than just the product on fifty peope in Florida's history. We are the product of genertions of unsung people who lived their lives and influenced Jacksonville in their day and were part of the long line of history that we are living with today.
So no, this building may not be the site of historical legend but I'm sure, the events and planning that went on in theis building for generations helped create (for better or for worse) Jacksonville of today. So yes, we must preserve this building and the history that happened there.
jaxjaguar, it is your attitude that has made DT Jax into the ghost town that it is today. Just as ultra-dense low income housing high-rises are today acknowledged as a huge mistake, so too is the idea that tearing down old building stock will bring vibrancy to downtrodden areas. In fact it has been demonstrated that there is almost nothing that you can do to kill vibrancy more than that.
I think this guy has the right mindset generally, we just need to work with him to see the value in doing something different with the Baptist building.
It's awesome this guy is investing downtown. However, demolishing a Klutho building is seriously not cool. Come on, "green space"? Who'd buy a $300k building and pay to demolish it for green space when you're already kittycorner to a park? Obviously parking's the real issue, it would be cool if the city worked with him on a creative solution to use some of the overabundant parking we already have, including the several garages that are located within a few blocks of these buildings. It sounds like Lemonis knows what's up otherwise, I'm sure he'd be amenable to positive solutions.
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on June 05, 2014, 10:22:27 AM
Just about every successful and vibrant downtown or historic urban neighborhood in America today once had abandoned buildings that were falling down. Most of these places once had conventional wisdom that nobody will invest money into the place and nobody really cares and it just makes the whole place look bad.
Much was once said of Riverside with and now look at the neighborhood.
These buildings should be saved until they can be restored and/or adaptive reuse...
This is more than just looking bad. This is a loss to the quality of the neighborhood. People move, buildings get torn down, real estate values plummet, tax revenues decline. It's a horrible vicious cycle. And yet, here in Jacksonville we don't get the connections. So we don't fund enough restoration incentives to fix up a place before it goes down or help new owners get credits to fix it up. We would rather rely on a system of complaints by neighbors and send a city mowing machine out or send the cops to clear out the vagrants, or send the fire department to put out the fire, or wait until the darn building collapses.
Lots of other cities with historic properties in decline organize land banks or systems of handling abandonment by acquiring property through eminent domain, donation by owners. They are able to turn around and market these properties. We have great real estate agents that deal almost exclusively with historic neighborhoods. Setting up something that would consolidate properties in a blighted area, organize marketing of them, work through grants for fixing them up, and work with special agents to sell them for restoration or re-use would save the city in the long term. This isn't something weird and new. Check out New York, Philadelphia, and other major cites.
Sure there are problems with a land bank - doesn't rely on market forces, can be slow, blah blah. But is it any worse than saying, "Oh well, something should be done but, sigh, it isn't happening. What a shame, they are going to tear down that building." or " Gee, he wants to buy this wonderful historic building and tear it down for a park (or transportation center, or homeless vets shelter, or Walmart)"
Check it out, Jacksonville: http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/issues/revitalization/land-banking/
Quote from: Tacachale on June 05, 2014, 11:36:06 AM
It's awesome this guy is investing downtown. However, demolishing a Klutho building is seriously not cool. Come on, "green space"? Who'd buy a $300k building and pay to demolish it for green space when you're already kittycorner to a park? Obviously parking's the real issue, it would be cool if the city worked with him on a creative solution to use some of the overabundant parking we already have, including the several garages that are located within a few blocks of these buildings. It sounds like Lemonis knows what's up.
+1
It's a large building, any other city would be chomping at the bit to offer the guy incentives to renovate it and move his hedge fund's headquarters here. Instead we bicker about it being a better idea to turn it into a parking lot.
And some still wonder why there are few buildings left downtown...
Quote from: BoldBoyOfTheSouth on June 05, 2014, 10:22:27 AM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 05, 2014, 10:04:21 AM
Again I ask. How much is it going to cost to restore this building? If he isn't allowed to tear it down it's not going to have a positive impact sitting there in it's current condition. Businesses aren't exactly flocking to downtown looking to save these dilapidated buildings. It wouldn't hurt to have another nice park. If you're scared of having another parking lot then add a clause to his contract that prevents him from using the site as surface parking.
Just about every successful and vibrant downtown or historic urban neighborhood in America today once had abandoned buildings that were falling down. Most of these places once had conventional wisdom that nobody will invest money into the place and nobody really cares and it just makes the whole place look bad.
Much was once said of Riverside with and now look at the neighborhood.
These buildings should be saved until they can be restored and/or adaptive reuse. If the owners refuse to maintain the building in a structurally sound condition, then fine them, once they get enough fines, they'll either fix the place up or sell it for whatever they can get for it. Very few downtown buildings are in so bad condition that onlycharity can save it.
This building could have street level retail with affordable rents for struggling buisnesses on a shoestring budget. The places upstairs could become apartments or even maybe dorms for UNF. Obviously it's easier said then done but this is not rocket science, adaptive reuses like this are happening if urban neighborhoods all over the country.
Get college students or artists living there with cheap rent means they and their friends will be around downtown all hours of the day and night with extra money to spend in downtown bars and restaurants.
I'd like to see that happen. And if the ambassador is restored to apartments as well, it would be a great start for that part of DT. Does anyone know anything about that project's current status?
Quote from: thelakelander on June 05, 2014, 10:36:39 AM
QuoteBut this building... What historical significance does this building have?
^Last office building designed by HJ Klutho.
QuoteLook at the surrounding area. It's the worst spot in the immediate core of downtown.
I've always thought this area offers some of the best potential. It's walkable, has a great mix of historic architecture, adjacent to Hemming, etc. Great adaptive reuse possibilities if we can get our act together. DT's worse spots to me are what's left of LaVilla, Railroad Row and Main Street.
Completely agree. There are a few cities in America (a few) where this building could conceivably be torn down for a parklet and nobody would shed a tear, except for maybe those of joy. Jacksonville is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. As far as old buildings go *in Jax*, this one is large and significant. It's also one of the only ones left. We aren't talking a 1-2 story non-descript building, but one that will make a positive impact later on if the area comes back. It will add character and charm to an otherwise characterless and charmless town/downtown.
This guy took on a risk and needs to deal with that risk. Presumably he didn't go in blind.
Finally, Jax is so "un-dense" that it almost doesn't even need ANY greenspace, lol. Everyone already has a yard. Downtown already has lots of public space and open space. Public and open space that can be converted to green space I might add. Cities like NYC and SF are building parklets and turning metered parking spaces into park space (literally). Jax is in an opposite camp, once again.
If this guy can't make his own deal work, I can't feel sorry for him. He should be more creative than that. If all he knows is how to run an ice cream shop, honestly, he's pretty much the last person that should have bought some old rehab opportunities in DT Jax. He should find a partner and quit asking for weird crap (and he should relinquish all respect people have given him if he turns into a whiner like Sleiman...it'd be even worse than Sleiman as no promises were ever made and everything was transparently clear).
I think Lemonis knows how to run more than an ice cream shop.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 05, 2014, 10:04:21 AM
Again I ask. How much is it going to cost to restore this building? If he isn't allowed to tear it down it's not going to have a positive impact sitting there in it's current condition. Businesses aren't exactly flocking to downtown looking to save these dilapidated buildings. It wouldn't hurt to have another nice park. If you're scared of having another parking lot then add a clause to his contract that prevents him from using the site as surface parking.
Though I respect the effort you cannot tell someone who purchases something outright how to use it lol. It would be similar to you buying a car and me saying you cant transport your family in it.
As for usage. I think the area has extreme potential. I am in the works on several things over there and I was going to meet with the city about a couple buildings there at my meeting on the 10th. There are people out there that want to save the structures. Never once did the land owner return my calls about the property after mr. McEachin told me about it. That being said the buildings can be saved.... The owners just need to take a little initiative about working with those with a vision for the buildings. This is in general to all the properties. Not just that one. And just because you do not see interest here or there doesn't mean that it is not there. For instance I can name 4 preservation groups I have met through my short time here saving buildings and volunteering their own time for FREE to save structures.
On a side note... Keep that game up with the title of a local business owner and I can see a sad future for sweet pete's.
i agree we dont need more green space downtown we need better utilization of the spaces we have. I walk by that building daily and see the potential. There needs to be a real push to fix the green spaces we have. Not just Hemming Plaza but just look at the wasted space on main and monroe another "green space" decision that worked out great.
Quote from: jaxlore on June 05, 2014, 03:50:26 PM
i agree we dont need more green space downtown we need better utilization of the spaces we have. I walk by that building daily and see the potential. There needs to be a real push to fix the green spaces we have. Not just Hemming Plaza but just look at the wasted space on main and monroe another "green space" decision that worked out great.
On a side note... they were adding more tiling to that park recently in an effort to create a mosaic all the way around it. One spark funds in action!!!!!!
Back on topic I contacted a few people and this tv guy (we wont associate him with swete pete for the sake of this as they probably have little control over his actions) has not purchased anything at all yet. Simply submitted LOIs so until I see a for sale sign removed whatever he has to say is nothing more than a media grasp in my opinion. He keeps saying all cash all cash all cash... that wont require a process or letter of intent. So not sure what his motives are yet I'm interested in seeing how it pans out
QuoteHe clearly knows he can't tear it down but he bought it anyway.
He hasn't bought anything yet.
Quote from: fieldafm on June 05, 2014, 04:47:18 PM
QuoteHe clearly knows he can't tear it down but he bought it anyway.
He hasn't bought anything yet.
true. hasn't closed on the Seminole Club either.
Quote from: AuditoreEnterprise on June 05, 2014, 04:32:24 PM
On a side note... they were adding more tiling to that park recently in an effort to create a mosaic all the way around it. One spark funds in action!!!!!!
actually the project is just about finished....the artists were our again last night working on the tile project...it will not go all the way around.
there will be a sculpture garden in the park starting this fall...funded as a Spark grant by the Cultural Council
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 05, 2014, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: AuditoreEnterprise on June 05, 2014, 04:32:24 PM
On a side note... they were adding more tiling to that park recently in an effort to create a mosaic all the way around it. One spark funds in action!!!!!!
actually the project is just about finished....the artists were our again last night working on the tile project...it will not go all the way around.
there will be a sculpture garden in the park starting this fall...funded as a Spark grant by the Cultural Council
sounds pretty cool to me.
Would be awesome to see a MJ story on these 2 buildings...
Quote from: river4340 on June 05, 2014, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on June 05, 2014, 04:47:18 PM
QuoteHe clearly knows he can't tear it down but he bought it anyway.
He hasn't bought anything yet.
true. hasn't closed on the Seminole Club either.
Good point. And he also had another building under contract before pulling out. It's all just speculation at this point.
$300,000 for a building is code for "he bought the lot"......
Just cause the structure is reinforced concrete doesn't mean the miscellaneous steel, ie stairs, are safe. Or wood internal structures.......or masonry structures. They used a lot of clay tile back then. Sometimes for floor slabs.
Or for example before they renovated the St James building the sidewalk had large areas were the concrete had spalled off the bottom of the sidewalk into the basement. A typical water intrusion rusty rebar condition. It exposed the reinforcing. Exposed reinforcing is not so much reinforcing the structure any more and getting unsafe. Brick falling off the building tells me it has water problems and the ties are failing. They are little but one water problem usually leads to another.
In Jacksonville if you build a building you have to provide parking. In Houston same thing. But here there is no room so you see a lot of multi story garages. Apartment complexes often have structural steel with bar joist 2 or 3 story garages attached to the most modest of apartment buildings. They usually have pretty front screens and not so much pretty sides and backs. The green space could be.................
I'd have to go back and look at the regulations but I don't believe you "have" to build parking in downtown Jax for all new buildings and adaptive reuse projects. I believe the overlay omits that.
QuoteI'd have to go back and look at the regulations but I don't believe you "have" to build parking in downtown Jax for all new buildings and adaptive reuse projects.
Correct, downtown is exempt from parking minimums.
Quote from: Overstreet on June 06, 2014, 09:21:34 AM
$300,000 for a building is code for "he bought the lot"......
Just cause the structure is reinforced concrete doesn't mean the miscellaneous steel, ie stairs, are safe. Or wood internal structures.......or masonry structures. They used a lot of clay tile back then. Sometimes for floor slabs.
Or for example before they renovated the St James building the sidewalk had large areas were the concrete had spalled off the bottom of the sidewalk into the basement. A typical water intrusion rusty rebar condition. It exposed the reinforcing. Exposed reinforcing is not so much reinforcing the structure any more and getting unsafe. Brick falling off the building tells me it has water problems and the ties are failing. They are little but one water problem usually leads to another.
In Jacksonville if you build a building you have to provide parking. In Houston same thing. But here there is no room so you see a lot of multi story garages. Apartment complexes often have structural steel with bar joist 2 or 3 story garages attached to the most modest of apartment buildings. They usually have pretty front screens and not so much pretty sides and backs. The green space could be.................
Thanks for clearing this up for everyone. Though I'm sure most of the people on here would still like to invest millions into this building to save it rather than develop it into something new or greenspace.
On the topic of parking.... Does the 220 riverside / fresh market center / brooklyn riverside area have a garage or will it be surface parking? When I ride my bike past there it seems like a lot of "stuff" with little parking space, ala Publix at 5 points. Is there a plan for a possible garage in the future?
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 06, 2014, 10:46:25 AM
Quote from: Overstreet on June 06, 2014, 09:21:34 AM
$300,000 for a building is code for "he bought the lot"......
Just cause the structure is reinforced concrete doesn't mean the miscellaneous steel, ie stairs, are safe. Or wood internal structures.......or masonry structures. They used a lot of clay tile back then. Sometimes for floor slabs.
Or for example before they renovated the St James building the sidewalk had large areas were the concrete had spalled off the bottom of the sidewalk into the basement. A typical water intrusion rusty rebar condition. It exposed the reinforcing. Exposed reinforcing is not so much reinforcing the structure any more and getting unsafe. Brick falling off the building tells me it has water problems and the ties are failing. They are little but one water problem usually leads to another.
In Jacksonville if you build a building you have to provide parking. In Houston same thing. But here there is no room so you see a lot of multi story garages. Apartment complexes often have structural steel with bar joist 2 or 3 story garages attached to the most modest of apartment buildings. They usually have pretty front screens and not so much pretty sides and backs. The green space could be.................
Thanks for clearing this up for everyone. Though I'm sure most of the people on here would still like to invest millions into this building to save it rather than develop it into something new or greenspace.
Actually, nothing has been cleared up. Just another opinion of another situation/experience added to the discussion thread.
QuoteOn the topic of parking.... Does the 220 riverside / fresh market center / brooklyn riverside area have a garage or will it be surface parking? When I ride my bike past there it seems like a lot of "stuff" with little parking space, ala Publix at 5 points. Is there a plan for a possible garage in the future?
There will be no garage. Building a garage would make this project cost prohibitive.
I think many people here would prefer to restore the building, yes. I think many may even be amenable to tearing it down if it would be replaced by something positive. I imagine the disagreement is whether "green space" is really going to be a better use than a building. More to the point, they doubt anyone would actually pay to turn this kind of money to turn the lot into "green space" instead of, say, another surface parking lot. And of course, all this turns on him actually buying this or any of the buildings.
Fortunately, at this point he has full knowledge going in that if he buys it he probably won't be able to tear it down. It's not like it will sneak up on him only after making the purchase (on any of the buildings). If parking's the issue, there are plenty of other solutions. If he really does want a green space, there are plenty of other lots he can buy.
Quote from: stephendare on June 06, 2014, 11:02:36 AM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 06, 2014, 10:46:25 AM
Quote from: Overstreet on June 06, 2014, 09:21:34 AM
$300,000 for a building is code for "he bought the lot"......
Just cause the structure is reinforced concrete doesn't mean the miscellaneous steel, ie stairs, are safe. Or wood internal structures.......or masonry structures. They used a lot of clay tile back then. Sometimes for floor slabs.
Or for example before they renovated the St James building the sidewalk had large areas were the concrete had spalled off the bottom of the sidewalk into the basement. A typical water intrusion rusty rebar condition. It exposed the reinforcing. Exposed reinforcing is not so much reinforcing the structure any more and getting unsafe. Brick falling off the building tells me it has water problems and the ties are failing. They are little but one water problem usually leads to another.
In Jacksonville if you build a building you have to provide parking. In Houston same thing. But here there is no room so you see a lot of multi story garages. Apartment complexes often have structural steel with bar joist 2 or 3 story garages attached to the most modest of apartment buildings. They usually have pretty front screens and not so much pretty sides and backs. The green space could be.................
Thanks for clearing this up for everyone. Though I'm sure most of the people on here would still like to invest millions into this building to save it rather than develop it into something new or greenspace.
On the topic of parking.... Does the 220 riverside / fresh market center / brooklyn riverside area have a garage or will it be surface parking? When I ride my bike past there it seems like a lot of "stuff" with little parking space, ala Publix at 5 points. Is there a plan for a possible garage in the future?
Is this based on your experience buying and renovating historic commercial real estate? Or just talking out of the usual gas release valve?
Solely based on the fact we both know you have been around for a while... I think you already know the answer to that question. If there were some form of an all knowing historic renovations contractor with tons of experience I think there would be a lot more renovation projects going on down there.
to clarify 220 Riverside does have a garage
is it seperate or the space under the building?
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 06, 2014, 04:52:41 PM
is it seperate or the space under the building?
I believe it is under the building
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 06, 2014, 04:52:41 PM
is it seperate or the space under the building?
Why not take a look at the plans shown in the 220 Riverside thread here on MetroJacksonville.
Yet another example of someone coming in from out of town, looking to change the landscape of downtown. Imagine if he had kept the space near Pearl/Forsyth with Langton, maybe he could have purchased the old Greyhound station and leveled that and turned it into a park with greenspace.
Sounds like he sees absolutely no value in Hemming Plaza, as it stands. He could be very dangerous to downtown. Buying his rights and way through downtown.
Quote from: stephendare on June 07, 2014, 09:52:24 AM
Quote from: AuditoreEnterprise on June 06, 2014, 02:35:33 PM
Quote from: stephendare on June 06, 2014, 11:02:36 AM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 06, 2014, 10:46:25 AM
Quote from: Overstreet on June 06, 2014, 09:21:34 AM
$300,000 for a building is code for "he bought the lot"......
Just cause the structure is reinforced concrete doesn't mean the miscellaneous steel, ie stairs, are safe. Or wood internal structures.......or masonry structures. They used a lot of clay tile back then. Sometimes for floor slabs.
Or for example before they renovated the St James building the sidewalk had large areas were the concrete had spalled off the bottom of the sidewalk into the basement. A typical water intrusion rusty rebar condition. It exposed the reinforcing. Exposed reinforcing is not so much reinforcing the structure any more and getting unsafe. Brick falling off the building tells me it has water problems and the ties are failing. They are little but one water problem usually leads to another.
In Jacksonville if you build a building you have to provide parking. In Houston same thing. But here there is no room so you see a lot of multi story garages. Apartment complexes often have structural steel with bar joist 2 or 3 story garages attached to the most modest of apartment buildings. They usually have pretty front screens and not so much pretty sides and backs. The green space could be.................
Thanks for clearing this up for everyone. Though I'm sure most of the people on here would still like to invest millions into this building to save it rather than develop it into something new or greenspace.
On the topic of parking.... Does the 220 riverside / fresh market center / brooklyn riverside area have a garage or will it be surface parking? When I ride my bike past there it seems like a lot of "stuff" with little parking space, ala Publix at 5 points. Is there a plan for a possible garage in the future?
Is this based on your experience buying and renovating historic commercial real estate? Or just talking out of the usual gas release valve?
Solely based on the fact we both know you have been around for a while... I think you already know the answer to that question. If there were some form of an all knowing historic renovations contractor with tons of experience I think there would be a lot more renovation projects going on down there.
+1
A little retraining of our contracting communities and a solid program of work study and on the job consulting by the Historic Preservation Commission for a few years actually working in the field on projects would go a long way. There is no argument about that.
could not have said it better myself.
Development today: Sweet Pete's receives permit to demolish three floors at Hogan Street site
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=543559
What? How was this missed? What are they demolishing?
400 Hogan is the Seminole Club. I assume it must be either interior demolition or the rear addition?
^Yeah, I typed that evidently as soon as you were. I'm thinking it's the interior demolition; they'd lose a lot of footage if they lost the adjacent addition, unless they were going to build a new one.
Can't be anything too major for only $35,000.
You have to have some demolition with the renovations they're doing. I'm sure that's all it is.
Anyone have any updates on this? Last I heard they were planning event space next door, but it seems like all movement has ceased and they're more focused on national branding...
He decided not to do this. This project is dead.