I want to take a serious run at getting the building at 1555 Pearl St.
I want to restore it to it's original form and function. It's function for (at minimum 2 decades) was Ralph's Tavern (beer and wine only).
I got inside the building the other day and they even have the original Ralph's sign still there (which we want to put it back up).
We've talked to the city about restoring the place to it's original form. They said they like the idea...
We've talked to the city about being able to serve beer and wine there. After all, that's what this place was for eons. Apparently Ralph's lost its capability to sell beer/wine due to its nonuse for so long (abandoned building by the looks of the interior).They said we'd basically need to have the place rezoned, and even if we PUD, we'll need an exception to serve beer/wine.
Oddly, one woman who worked in zoning thought we should be able to get it through as the idea sounds "just like Three Layers." Someone else working in the same office was on the opposite end of the spectrum, essentially saying it's going to be highly unlikely to get anyone to agree to this.
We have the means to restore the place to it's original position, both in form and function, but the last thing we want is to get it and sit in some protracted battle between a rezoning committee/SPAR/neighbors/etc.
Question(s)
1) Does a SPAR recommendation carry with it legal authority, or is it just a body that makes "recommendations" to the city.
2) If it's the latter, how likely is the city to listen to their recommendation?
3) Does serving some nominal food in the place (popcorn, chips, baked goods, whatever) increase or decrease our chances of getting an exception to service beer?
4) There are two neighbors immediately abutting the property. I'll obviously end up having to go talk to them myself, but what kind of neighborhood resistance am I looking at?
Any advice/recommendations would be great. This is our first run at a piece of property in Springfield, and quite frankly...only heard horror stories about both SPAR and the cities handling of SPR buildings.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/14145946400_d89e70052a_o.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5319/14309478046_c9bd42202c_o.jpg)
Quote from: ben says on June 02, 2014, 05:29:34 PM
I want to take a serious run at getting the building at 1555 Pearl St.
I want to restore it to it's original form and function. It's function for (at minimum 2 decades) was Ralph's Tavern (beer and wine only).
I got inside the building the other day and they even have the original Ralph's sign still there (which we want to put it back up).
We've talked to the city about restoring the place to it's original form. They said they like the idea...
We've talked to the city about being able to serve beer and wine there. After all, that's what this place was for eons. Apparently Ralph's lost its capability to sell beer/wine due to its nonuse for so long (abandoned building by the looks of the interior).They said we'd basically need to have the place rezoned, and even if we PUD, we'll need an exception to serve beer/wine.
Oddly, one woman who worked in zoning thought we should be able to get it through as the idea sounds "just like Three Layers." Someone else working in the same office was on the opposite end of the spectrum, essentially saying it's going to be highly unlikely to get anyone to agree to this.
We have the means to restore the place to it's original position, both in form and function, but the last thing we want is to get it and sit in some protracted battle between a rezoning committee/SPAR/neighbors/etc.
Question(s)
1) Does a SPAR recommendation carry with it legal authority, or is it just a body that makes "recommendations" to the city.
2) If it's the latter, how likely is the city to listen to their recommendation?
3) Does serving some nominal food in the place (popcorn, chips, baked goods, whatever) increase or decrease our chances of getting an exception to service beer?
4) There are two neighbors immediately abutting the property. I'll obviously end up having to go talk to them myself, but what kind of neighborhood resistance am I looking at?
Any advice/recommendations would be great. This is our first run at a piece of property in Springfield, and quite frankly...only heard horror stories about both SPAR and the cities handling of SPR buildings.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/14145946400_d89e70052a_o.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5319/14309478046_c9bd42202c_o.jpg)
1) SPAR's role in this type of matter is the same as RAP's, or any other community organization: advisory.
2) Typically COJ heavily weighs community input in this type of issue.
3) I would guess yes, but just an initial guess.
4) Depends on what you want to do and how you want to do it, as with most developments. In general, I'd say the community is very open to all kinds of development. However, each project is different.
Advice: Reach out to SPAR and SAMBA and talk about what you want to do, and they'll help you figure out what's what. Better yet, they'll reach out to you. Check your messages. : )
I love the idea! To try and answer some questions,
SPAR is a non -profit, they aren't a governing body, like RAP isn't a governing body.The governing body is HPC, the city's Historic Preservation Commission. But working with them and being to tell HPC you have their blessing can only help.
I don't think any food is required for beer and wine, only liquor. But I am not completely certain of this.
Shantytown and Three Layers are both frequented by neighbors and I would love to have a new place to go as I am sure many residents would. Pearl Street has many commercial/residential zonings, so it's not the typical residential Springfield Street...
We do have HPCs informal endorsement of the idea.
Just not sure how hard I wanna go after it if I can't sell beer/wine.
The building has a really cool courtyard that would be perfect for such use.
Really my two biggest "fears" are:
1) Neighbors
and
2) Getting PUD just with the hope we can get an exception.
Thanks for everyone's input.
A little history. When the overlay was written (and even before) it was believed that the downfall of Springfield was caused by bad zoning which allowed commercial and social services to develop in what was originally residential areas and corners. While there may have been some truth to that, it is also what helped Springfield become a cool walk-able place to live. In any case, that is why the zoning got changed on places like 1555 Pearl ST from CCG to CRO and sometimes even RMD. In practice, every time a new place like this wanted to open up, it has done so with community support. Meeks' offices on Laura, Three Layers, Sweet Pete's, heck they allowed an exception for a bakery in an apartment on Pearl Street, all are more intensive uses than the writers of the overlay believed to be good for the residential areas/ corners. 1555 Pearl ST is CRO-S so a restaurant is allowed by exception. (you knew that...) The bad issues came from the car wash, primarily, and that opened anyway. A few others were scared off but that is their problem, not the communities.
The code actually says: Restaurants, including facilities for the sale and service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption only, subject to the following conditions:
(A)Seating shall not exceed a capacity of 40.
(B)Food is ordered from a menu, prepared and served for pay for consumption on premises only.
I believe food service can be as simple as a selection of Hot Dogs - hey I'd come for that! - and sides. The code is written in a vague sort of way that allows for that whether intended or not. In this case, it is trying to prevent fast food in CRO-S no matter what and keep the size down, most likely for the sake of the neighbors. The state licence may be a different story however so check with them as well.
By exception simply means that it is viewed as something that should be looked at individually rather than just allowed to be done. It should not scare you off from trying because as others have done before you, the community seems to embrace the idea of walking a couple of blocks to a cool little watering hole.
Working with SPAR Council and SAMBA can go either way. They do not have as much influence as they may wish to think so them being against you is not something to worry about very much, however, it never hurts to have them on your side. The immediate neighbors are probably much more important in the scheme of things.
I will say that as most trying something like this have indeed gone the PUD route, there may be a good reason for that. You may want to reach out to one of the lawyers from the area for legal advise.
Yeah, I know, nothing you you didn't know already but take it as encouragement to move forward.
Thanks, strider.
The price is right and we wanna get in there and reroof it anyway.
Regardless, we'll probably pick it up....backup plan: use it as an office (my own).
Not really a sexy use for it, though. Which is why we really, really want to be able to resurrect Ralph's and serve beer/wine.
I think you're onto something w/ those hot dogs ;)
As a neighbor, I would love to see something done with that building. It has so much character. One thing you should consider is parking. Several years ago it was not an issue, but the blocks around that are pretty full in the evening now. Three Layers has an empty lot across the street, and there is not much residential around Shanty Town. So, there is plenty of on-street parking near them. Take a drive down Pearl and 6th streets in the evening to see how many spots might be available.
Well we always say we want businesses we can walk to. The Health Dept is closed at night and is only two blocks away.
Ben, I used to live in the 1500 block of Silver, one block over. My guess would be the main concern of neighbors would be the noise factor. Three Layers keeps their noise indoors. Their events are generally inside the store. Shantytown sometimes has BBQ's out back, but their backyard doesn't abut houses directly to my knowledge. There is a parking lot next to it.
My guess is if you eliminate loud outside noise, you won't have an issue with the neighbors. You will, however, be only two blocks from a competing neighborhood watering hole at that location.
I don't know that parking will be an issue anymore than it is anywhere in Springfield. We always find a way to get where we want to go. :-)
I'll come, but you need killer hamburgers too besides the hot dogs! :-)