(http://i.imgur.com/CbG4aC9.png)
Is Downtown Vision in denial that they have taken a position on food truck operators working downtown or are there competing definitions for the word "position"?
They released a food truck statement on March 30, 2012. It literally says "Downtown_Vision_food_trucks_position_and_clarifcation" in the URL that links to this statement.
The document is located within a section of their website labeled "Position Statements".
Once you open the document, scroll to the bottom and look for the bold heading that says "Our Position".
http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/Downtown_Vision_food_trucks_position_and_clarifcation_4.sflb.ashx (http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/Downtown_Vision_food_trucks_position_and_clarifcation_4.sflb.ashx)
DVI has had to tow a delicate line, trying to balance the wishes of current dining establishments downtown (those who pay for DVI's services) and the desire by many for food trucks.
Since 2012, they have helped food trucks establish semi-permanent locations, encouraged food trucks at ArtWalk, and worked with others to bring food trucks to Hemming Plaza every Thursday and Friday.
It seems to me that the survey questions are relating to the issue without covering the complexities of it. Therefore the results of the survey are weakened as to validity, and are prone to misjudgment by some who are too easily satisfied with oversimplification.
It seems to me also that DVI is concerned about one of their primary objectives, which is that of making decisions and supporting policies which encourage solid progress to revitalization over the long haul. Any organization, such as DVI, having the responsibility of achieving solid progress on somewhat difficult and complex problems, over years of effort, must guard against the pressures of those who, having only immediate needs, only limited knowledge, and limited objectives, including that of immediate profits, could, if they had their way, engage policies which would result in ultimately impeding real progress to revitalization.
The "position" held by DVI is, for the most part, valid in my opinion, and it is valid because it is based on consideration of all aspects of the issue. They have, in my opinion, resisted changing the position simply because it is the best position. Of course, so as to achieve a better pressure upon a problem, any position can be massaged or adjusted according to changes related to it. Who knows, they might accommodate any changes in the environment, and adjust their position.
In any case, only a fool would argue against the statement that "Occupying Buildings Is King" ... if the goal is that of revitalizing a downtown core. Every time I hear of a "food truck" operator opening a brick and mortar restaurant downtown, I want to find the individual and give a big hug, and tell him or her how much they are contributing to increasing vibrancy in the city core.
FILL THOSE BUILDINGS, ALL YOU PERSONS OF ACTION. :)
Definitely too restrictive a policy. I don't think the legislation that was (is?) passing through City Council is nearly this confining. I heard talk of making a permanent food truck area downtown during one of the meetings on the proposed ordinance. An assigned block or corner sounds nice. After all, there's plenty of empty space.
QuoteSince 2012, they have helped food trucks establish semi-permanent locations, encouraged food trucks at ArtWalk, and worked with others to bring food trucks to Hemming Plaza every Thursday and Friday.
Not trying to pile on DVI... but they have not worked to find food trucks semi-permanent locations. There are four locations in which trucks setup downtown (well, technically as of two weeks ago there are only three locations)... three locations are private landowners (who charge rent) and the 4th is COJ Parking, which also charges rent at the lot at Main/Forsyth.
The very strange and not particularly helpful (IMO) Hemming Plaza 'arrangement' is through JaxParks, not DVI.
Not sure how productive it is to poke/provoke DVI on Twitter, I frankly think that is poor form... but it's also completely false to claim DVI is finding trucks places to setup.
They do, as you say, charge food trucks a premium to setup in Hemming and Main/Forsyth (through a resale arrangement with COJ Parking) at Art Walk.
That's not criticism, that's just setting the record straight.
QuoteWonder why they are opening in Riverside rather than Downtown?
In the end, it's been cheaper for food trucks to open brick and mortar locations in neighborhoods that are already vibrant, than it is to open downtown.
That in and of itself warrants serious discussion regarding solutions.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 21, 2014, 09:51:54 PM
QuoteSince 2012, they have helped food trucks establish semi-permanent locations, encouraged food trucks at ArtWalk, and worked with others to bring food trucks to Hemming Plaza every Thursday and Friday.
Not trying to pile on DVI... but they have not worked to find food trucks semi-permanent locations. There are four locations in which trucks setup downtown (well, technically as of two weeks ago there are only three locations)... three locations are private landowners (who charge rent) and the 4th is COJ Parking, which also charges rent at the lot at Main/Forsyth.
The very strange and not particularly helpful (IMO) Hemming Plaza 'arrangement' is through JaxParks, not DVI.
Not sure how productive it is to poke/provoke DVI on Twitter, I frankly think that is poor form... but it's also completely false to claim DVI is finding trucks places to setup.
They do, as you say, charge food trucks a premium to setup in Hemming and Main/Forsyth (through a resale arrangement with COJ Parking) at Art Walk.
That's not criticism, that's just setting the record straight.
It's never poor form to call out a taxpayer-funded body when you disagree with their position or when they are lying publicly. It's actually rather necessary to democracy, and has certainly been going on long enough, we passed the first amendment in 1791 for exactly this purpose. Twitter is simply the new town hall.
QuoteNot sure how productive it is to poke/provoke DVI on Twitter, I frankly think that is poor form...
No way, field. This way everyone knows they are on the record. It's actually more fair than a phone call or even sending an email.
In my experience with DVI they are excellent at evading questions and ignoring issues except for when the question or issue involves them on a public level. Or, even on a public level...note how they don't answer the last question on the first posted twitter conversation at the top of this thread.
But, so you have context, this conversation actually started late February when CM Brown introduced his food truck legislation.
Intuition Ale asked DVI, in poor form :D, on twitter:
(http://i.imgur.com/iVVXuxl.png)
To which MJC replied, on twitter:
(http://i.imgur.com/g0vEOlf.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/0h6txDG.png)
To their credit they are saying that the last position is outdated, which I did not remember them saying. So, are they going to officially rescind their last position? It is poor form for DVI to write that their last statement is outdated on twitter but on their website under the "positions statements" section nothing has changed.
I don't see how you can be position-less yet have an official position at the same time. If DVI is making a move away from their last position statement, even if it is a move into ambiguity, they should retract their last position statement.
I think you can catch most of the interactions from the February conversation on the link below:
https://twitter.com/DTJax/status/438786006033399809
(https://twitter.com/DTJax/status/438786006033399809)
In other words, now it's 3 months later and they've never taken their position back?
Quote from: stephendare on May 21, 2014, 09:07:26 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 21, 2014, 09:00:48 PM
DVI has had to tow a delicate line, trying to balance the wishes of current dining establishments downtown (those who pay for DVI's services) and the desire by many for food trucks.
Since 2012, they have helped food trucks establish semi-permanent locations, encouraged food trucks at ArtWalk, and worked with others to bring food trucks to Hemming Plaza every Thursday and Friday.
The current restaurants do not pay for DVI's services. The landowners do. There are only a handful of restaurant owners downtown who own the building they are occupying.
and I'm sure the property owners don't pass the cost on to tenants in the form of higher rent
Quote from: fieldafm on May 21, 2014, 09:51:54 PM
QuoteSince 2012, they have helped food trucks establish semi-permanent locations, encouraged food trucks at ArtWalk, and worked with others to bring food trucks to Hemming Plaza every Thursday and Friday.
Not trying to pile on DVI... but they have not worked to find food trucks semi-permanent locations.
sorry...guess I was misunderstood....from what I gather, DVI did assist/support the siting food trucks at the semi-permanent locations...remember that a part of their charter is advocacy.
Quote from: stephendare on May 21, 2014, 09:36:58 PM
And today another new restaurant was announced in Five Points, Happy Grilled Cheese.
Another Food Truck becomes Brick and Mortar.
Wonder why they are opening in Riverside rather than Downtown?
Friendly neighbors not trying to run them out of business perhaps?
I guess the position is 'valid' in all respects except for one: Reality.
of course there is a food truck planning to open a brick and mortar place downtown...it is Super Food Truck at 11E....I spoke with the guy yesterday and he said the grease trap investigation went better than expected, so upgrades should be feasible.
QuoteDVI did assist/support the siting food trucks at the semi-permanent locations
No, that was representatives of the former JEDC.. now OED, that came up with an interpretation as to siting and zoning.
QuoteI don't see how you can be position-less yet have an official position at the same time. If DVI is making a move away from their last position statement, even if it is a move into ambiguity, they should retract their last position statement.
I certainly agree that if your position is murky and/or not yet fully formed and/or in a state of fluidity... then yes, it certainly would be appropriate to remove any official position statements that detail very precisely otherwise.
It's also concerning to hear words like 'control' instead of 'promoting', 'encouraging' or 'advocating' when it comes to the pursuit of businesses in downtown.
Funny how this has become such a threatening issue. When I worked for Dan Curtis Productions in Hollywood as a 'set dresser,' we had food trucks EVERYWHERE! Not just to 'official' NBC (in our case), CBS, ABC types either, really amazing food trucks. One late morning having slept all of 3 hours in the last 32 or so (yes location filming is hell), most of us were either hung-over, high or just too damn tired to care when an angel shows up at our camp. Cloris Leachman, came to get all of us and dragged us off to a group of food trucks that were better then 5th Avenue... 'Order whatever you want boys!'
What a freaking amazing lady and what a cool and lasting experience. To this day when I see one of our trucks I'm back in the high desert, in a sea of equipment... I don't think many people in Jacksonville have ever been exposed to this, in spite of their excellent successes so far. To saddle them unfairly is to hurt everyone across the board. On location film shoots we never thought in terms of 'Hum? Food truck or brick and mortar.' Instead it was do we brown bag or eat from the truck, or very often we'd split it, kind of like: "Hey boys and girls, XXX TRUCK has amazing tacos, and Ron Chamblins has the best pastries and coffee, so lets split up...' DIV is on a tightrope, but it's time to make a stand for right and quit catering to assorted wallets. Roll the dice because the payoff could be bigger....so are you feeling lucky? I am!
Quote from: fieldafm on May 22, 2014, 10:54:56 AM
QuoteDVI did assist/support the siting food trucks at the semi-permanent locations
No, that was representatives of the former JEDC.. now OED, that came up with an interpretation as to siting and zoning.
did DVI not support it? Did they not speak up in favor?
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 22, 2014, 11:31:32 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on May 22, 2014, 10:54:56 AM
QuoteDVI did assist/support the siting food trucks at the semi-permanent locations
No, that was representatives of the former JEDC.. now OED, that came up with an interpretation as to siting and zoning.
did DVI not support it? Did they not speak up in favor?
No, and to give DVI credit for food trucks in the core would be a massive mischaracterization. Not a criticism, just setting the record straight.
I am encouraged by the rumored "building occupations". For example, I've heard that some kind of restaurant is signing a 20 year lease on the two most southerly spaces on Laura in the Elks building. The wall between the two spaces will be removed. Somebody is optimistic if they are doing a 20 year lease. Diversions plans to move around the corner to a larger space, and expand their services. The other tenant is planning to move also.
Too ... some of the floors of the Greenleaf building (above Jacob's) are being renovated, and will soon be occupied.
And there is the restaurant going into 11E, at the former Starbucks spot. The new project on the northeast corner of Hemming is coming too. And of course the 225 Laura building is moving along.
Soon, I expect we will see some activity in the Barnett building and the trio. And then there is the Landing project.
There seems to be, increasingly, steady new energy building up in the core, which seems to indicate the beginning of a long-term growth period. Hopefully, more projects are coming soon.
The One Sparks, the Art Walks, the Jazz Festivals, and the Food Truck Rallies and other events have all contributed to keeping the core alive ... reminding people that downtown exists. But finally, we are seeing genuine investment ... in real estate purchases, in renovation, in long term leases; that is, in "occupying buildings", which is one of the most important measures of progress toward the goal of revitalization.
Most of this new investment has come about because of a slowly improving (still shaky) economy -- and because of capable individuals who sense the great need for action, and wish to satisfy it.
At this early stage regarding food trucks, it would be erroneous to suggest that the limited food truck presence so far in or near the city core, has had any positive impact on promoting this new growth.
As the city core becomes more vibrant, having much greater foot traffic to spread around to businesses, the issue of food trucks will be less important, and regulation will be less necessary -- just as the homeless issue will become less important with greater vibrancy and core population.
"Occupying Buildings is King".