Extending the Skyway and Bike Share in Jax's Future?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3255873876_5WRbj35-M.jpg)
A look at the Jacksonville Transportation Authority's (JTA) 2014 TIGER Discretionary Grant application to bring a bike sharing system to the urban core while extending the Skyway to Brooklyn.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-may-extending-the-skyway-and-bike-share-in-jaxs-future
So compared to last year's proposal, the extension would be shorter and include a less-extravagant station, but will include a bike-sharing component and trainset overhaul (the largest expense)? I would like to see the extension a block or two deeper into Brooklyn as I'm assuming this extension will forever be the terminus for that line. Does two years of construction time sound about right for that kind of buildout?
I'm not too crazy about the bike-sharing component. What else could you get for $1.5M in regards to improving bikeability in the Brooklyn and Downtown areas?
The extension is the same length and plan that was included in last year's TIGER grant application.
QuoteI would like to see the extension a block or two deeper into Brooklyn
A two block extension would probably almost double the cost with very little benefit.
QuoteI'm not too crazy about the bike-sharing component.
The bike sharing extends connectivity into all of the In-Town neighborhoods surrounding downtown. Studying systems in much smaller (and larger) cities with
far less bicycle infrastructure than Jax reveals that bike share can be very successful in Jacksonville if implemented properly. In fact, a system planner from one of the bike share companies that recently visited Jax said quote "Jacksonville has one of the most impressive collections of urban neighborhoods in the entire southeast."
I think this is taken for granted way too much by Jaxsons.
The plan looks solid to me. As with anything, implementation will be key.
While any sort of extension in that direction will be beneficial, I really hope they allow it to be expandable. A station at the old fire station (end of forest street) and running it up forest and down park a little to 5 Points would greatly benefit from an extension. You would get people willing to ride from crowded 5 points into the core that way.
There are no plans to extend the Skyway south of I-95. There, you'll most likely be looking at the implementation of another system, such as streetcar, BRT, etc.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 20, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
I think this is taken for granted way too much by Jaxsons.
I don't think it's taken for granted, I think it's ignored.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 20, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
In fact, a system planner from one of the bike share companies that recently visited Jax said quote "Jacksonville has one of the most impressive collections of urban neighborhoods in the entire southeast."
I think this is taken for granted way too much by Jaxsons.
This was a key factor in my decision to turn down a couple of job offers in other cities, in favor of moving to Jax. The collection of urban neighborhoods reminded me more of older Midwestern and Northeast cities, moreso than the typical sunbelt sprawler.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 20, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
In fact, a system planner from one of the bike share companies that recently visited Jax said quote "Jacksonville has one of the most impressive collections of urban neighborhoods in the entire southeast."
I think this is taken for granted way too much by Jaxsons.
Truth!!!, people have no idea that in terms of scale Riverside stands alone in the USA for a historic neighborhood. I think they get San Marco but are skeptical of Springfield and oblivious to St. Nicholas and Durkeeville.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 20, 2014, 09:57:18 AM
There are no plans to extend the Skyway south of I-95. There, you'll most likely be looking at the implementation of another system, such as streetcar, BRT, etc.
Actually, the TPO's 2040 LRTP Draft Needs Plan has the Skyway being extended into 5 Points. I have no idea why this was included in the plan- it is not realistic.
Yeah, the Needs Plan has a lot of unrealistic ideas thrown into it. Basically, if some entity/individual suggested a project, it got tossed in. Most of that stuff won't be in the actual cost feasible plan.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 20, 2014, 10:42:21 AM
Yeah, the Needs Plan has a lot of unrealistic ideas thrown into it. Basically, if some entity/individual suggested a project, it got tossed in. Most will that stuff won't be in the actual cost feasible plan.
True. It is concerning though that this extension was thrown in there since streetcar is also in the Plan for that leg so they would be duplicating routes. Last plan, streetcar was carried through all the way to the cost feasible plan. This draft needs plan was released before any public meetings were held for comment-which is odd. At any rate I hope the application is successful.
*Edit- Actually I just looked and the routes are not duplicated. Street car picks up in 5 points. But still, skyway to 5 points is pure fiction. Street car could be a reality- that needs to be changed I think.
^ and not to "de-rail" this thread, but the LRTP Needs Plan has one streetcar line in the Riverside area and another in the San Marco area. They are not connected, meaning two separate trolley barrns/maintenance facilities will be needed. Unless of course the big plan is to run the streetcar up onto the Skyway tracks.
Good grant. Hope it comes through this time. I do remember the guy from one of the bike share vendors saying how impressed he was with Jax. He thought it was better for bike sharing than Orlando or Tampa.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 20, 2014, 11:59:24 AM
^ and not to "de-rail" this thread, but the LRTP Needs Plan has one streetcar line in the Riverside area and another in the San Marco area. They are not connected, meaning two separate trolley barrns/maintenance facilities will be needed. Unless of course the big plan is to run the streetcar up onto the Skyway tracks.
The needs plan was missing the streetcar routes from the 2035 LRTP and the 2030 Mobility Plan. Not sure why those were omitted and replaced with projects that will ultimately be proven to be unfeasible but I believe they've been added for evaluation since the initial release of the needs plan.
I read quite a bit of it. Very thorough and very interesting. Looking forward to seeing how the first leg of the BRT works.
My favorite choice is expand skyway to Brooklyn and San Marco and have streetcar interact. However I believe a much more practical Plan is to convert the skyway to a raised streetcar that we could have link to an ever growing streetcar network though out the core.
At all costs scrap the BRT in the core.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 20, 2014, 01:54:50 PM
At all costs scrap the BRT in the core.
that simply isn't going to happen
I just didn't want it to seem like I support taking what little transit we have and duplicating the same routes but I know that plan is religious dogma for JTA at this point.
We need the bikeshare program now, this year. It's a relatively small project requiring just $1.5M. We don't need to tether it to the Skyway. It would be a huge win for Mayor Brown who doesn't have much to run on except massive scoreboards. Bikeshare is a hit in other cities and it would be a wonderful addition to Jacksonville.
So in a year from the JTA's previous attempt at gaining TIGER funds to extend the skyway one stop, they've thrown in a bike share component?
I wholeheartedly agree with the bike share plan but why was it thrown on the end almost as an afterthought?
It took them a year to add planning-world-buzzword/trend BIKESHARE into the same idea as last year in hopes the grant will come through this time? Is that JTA's reasoning? Don't get me wrong, i totally agree that ANY non-asphalt transit OPTIONS added to Jax's fabric are good - even a one stop Skyway extension to Brooklyn.
Bikeshare - it's a FANTASTIC IDEA and good start, but JTA & the City will need to really invest in proper infrastructure improvements. Jax needs more safely designed streets & roadways for bikes before you start encouraging people to hop on a bike to run errands.
Would be great to see more station options expand to into Miramar, Spring Park/St. Nicholas, Springfield, & Durkeeville.
Lastly, as MetroJax has promoted in the past - a Pedestrian Path/Bike Lane component to the Fuller Warren would be a blessing to connecting Brooklyn/Five Points/Riverside & San Marco/Baptist/Southbank. I could almost see it as an extension of the Northbank Riverwalk, ramping up from the Arts Market, hopping under the bridge, connecting to the Southbank Riverwalk. A shaded (protection from the harsh summer sun or heavy rains) non-steep inclined path with an excellent view of Downtown that accommodates Bikers, Walkers, Fishermen, & Tourists!
QuoteI wholeheartedly agree with the bike share plan but why was it thrown on the end almost as an afterthought?
I wouldn't characterize it that way. JTA is interested in bike share and has met with many community partners regarding bike share.
I'm far from a JTA apologist, so I'll give some authentic credence here to the notion that JTA is geniunely serious about bike share. It all (always) comes down to realisitic funidng options. After looking at this for a few years, I just don't see some white knight in shining armor willing to write a check to start a bike share system in Jax... and working with JTA has the added benefit of integrating bike share into a functional transit system (successful implementation must include cooperation, not friction) and having shovel-ready (so to speak) ROW access. Success (with anything) is always contingent when the variables of timing and opportunity line up in harmony.
I totally dig the bikeshare idea. But I hope that JTA will incorporate the need for better bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure around the city or you'll have all these people on bikes riding up against same problems and safety concerns that we do today. I still don't feel like there is one good well marked route from Riverside through Downtown and San Marco.
Quote from: jaxlore on May 20, 2014, 03:53:56 PM
I totally dig the bikeshare idea. But I hope that JTA will incorporate the need for better bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure around the city or you'll have all these people on bikes riding up against same problems and safety concerns that we do today. I still don't feel like there is one good well marked route from Riverside through Downtown and San Marco.
Yes, very important. Agree.
Saw bike share in D.C. and their roads were tight and busy also. Part of it is awareness and signage. Our drivers here need an education.
Quote from: IrvAdams on May 20, 2014, 04:21:13 PM
Saw bike share in D.C. and their roads were tight and busy also.
They also have some protected bike lanes: http://www.thewashcycle.com/2012/09/ddot-proposes-extending-the-15th-street-cycletrack-to-euclid.html
Quote from: jaxlore on May 20, 2014, 03:53:56 PM
I totally dig the bikeshare idea. But I hope that JTA will incorporate the need for better bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure around the city or you'll have all these people on bikes riding up against same problems and safety concerns that we do today. I still don't feel like there is one good well marked route from Riverside through Downtown and San Marco.
often times starting a bike share system is the impetus to improving the on-road infrastructure. That was the case in DC, NYC, and Chicago...and the same is now happening in Tampa and Orlando.
It is STILL a train to nowhere.
Quote from: finehoe on May 20, 2014, 04:29:27 PM
Quote from: IrvAdams on May 20, 2014, 04:21:13 PM
Saw bike share in D.C. and their roads were tight and busy also.
They also have some protected bike lanes: http://www.thewashcycle.com/2012/09/ddot-proposes-extending-the-15th-street-cycletrack-to-euclid.html
Columbus, Ohio also has a bike sharing program. https://www.cogobikeshare.com/
I think it's a great idea, except Jacksonville is notorious for running over bike riders. I don't trust the drivers here, no matter how well marked the roadway is.
Quote from: finehoe on May 20, 2014, 04:29:27 PM
Quote from: IrvAdams on May 20, 2014, 04:21:13 PM
Saw bike share in D.C. and their roads were tight and busy also.
They also have some protected bike lanes: http://www.thewashcycle.com/2012/09/ddot-proposes-extending-the-15th-street-cycletrack-to-euclid.html
Chattanooga has bike share. They have less bike infrastructure than we have right now. Jax's urban core's street network is comprehensive and compact enough for cyclist to take advantage of lesser traveled streets that happen to parallel busy corridors. Nevertheless, we're overdue for a policy with teeth that requires all of our routine street repaving projects to incorporate multi-modal enhancements, where feasible. Getting something like that in place will literally transform biking in the urban core for limited additional cost over a 5-10 year period by itself.
I work in Mandarin just off Philips Highway. There is a bike lane along Philips for a ways, and although there are many car turn-ins and other interruptions people do bike through there. Of course, the road is wide and traffic zips by pretty quick.
Anyway, seems that lately the City has put up some Bike Lane signage that's new, and even that little bit helps. I think most drivers respond favorably to signage and other traffic direction like striping, lights, etc. A media campaign would be very helpful as a start. Driver consciousness-raising.
I know it likely would never happen, but it is something I really liked to use back in California and I think incorporated into the right area near the urban core can do wonders. It was something like 12 miles long and built mainly on top of decommissioned rail tracks. It has a main connecting road on both sides and sees tons of walking, biking, rollerblading, skateboarding, scooter, running, dogs, everything... The neighborhood was okay before it was built, but this improvement increased property value and brought a lot of traffic to the area. (http://www.trbimg.com/img-4fd7c71f/turbine/tn-blr-0613-grants-to-pave-burbank-bike-path-001/600)
forgot to mention every like 4 or 5 blocks there is a cross section so that cars can cross or turn around.
there is also a section like this where a rapid bus runs next to the path connecting 3 colleges and the main transit station going from the valley to downtown LA. (http://www.kcet.org/socal/departures/fieldguides/lariver/bikepath-orangeline.jpg)
^Nice!
Quote from: fieldafm on May 20, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
QuoteI would like to see the extension a block or two deeper into Brooklyn
A two block extension would probably almost double the cost with very little benefit.
I disagree. Well, I don't know about the cost and whether it's worth it, but I think there's a lot of benefit to extending down Riverside even just a few more blocks. You gotta try and get it as close to the office towers as possible.
Roughly $28-$30 million/mile according to their 2009 study on extending the Skyway as far south as Forest Street.
A few other questions/comments:
1) The bikeshare concept sounds absolutely awesome. If it's implemented well it could be the saving grace for JTA and the overall connectivity.
2) Are TIGER grants ever partially funded or is it always all or nothing?
3) In the map of the Brooklyn station extension, they used the wrong Fidelity logo. The green logo is for Fidelity Investments which, if I'm not mistaken, has no offices in the FNF building. Small slip up, especially in such a detailed and long application, but a slip nevertheless.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2014, 12:02:12 AM
Roughly $28-$30 million/mile according to their 2009 study on extending the Skyway as far south as Forest Street.
Wow, that seems astronomical and definitely not worth it. To get to Forest St then would cost an extra $12 mil.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 20, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
QuoteI would like to see the extension a block or two deeper into Brooklyn
A two block extension would probably almost double the cost with very little benefit.
Would it? According to the presentation, guideway is 3.4 of the 26.5 overall project. The station and maintenance improvements would be the same regardless.
Personally, I think it would be a benefit to potentially locate at the Shoppes on Riverside, in between the two outparcels. Not only would it shroud the parking lot for the development, it would be a lot more centralized to the area between Downtown and Forest St.
I do wish it was at least extended to the front of the Fresh Market shopping center. A station there would block the surface parking lot and offer better/safer pedestrian access to adjacent land uses. With that said, if they don't win the TIGER grant, what's the fallback option?
^I wish JTA read Metrojacksonville more often. You guys have been saying that (extending in front of the surface parking lot) since the project was first unveiled.
I am pretty sure they do to some degree
Quote from: AuditoreEnterprise on May 20, 2014, 10:21:10 PM
there is also a section like this where a rapid bus runs next to the path connecting 3 colleges and the main transit station going from the valley to downtown LA. (http://www.kcet.org/socal/departures/fieldguides/lariver/bikepath-orangeline.jpg)
The 'MetroRapid Orange Line,' is a rather special case, one that Jacksonville couldn't duplicate and doesn't need. Specifically while the bikeway is a great idea, the 'Bronze Level' BRT was chosen over rail because it would not create a hot TOD market. Our own so-called BRT does not meet this level of service-amenities and would not even score as 'basic BRT' on a international level and is unlikely to have any effect on development. We do have a few bikeways along former railroads within the urban core, and a couple of grade separated ones in the area, but we need much, much more.
Without the exclusive right-of-way of the Orange Line (former Pacific Electric Railway) our buses will run in regular traffic lanes with a suicide bike lane alongside. With virtually no pedestrian-bike overpasses, massive 6-8 lane at grade highway crossings, and but a few short cycle crosswalk lights, if we don't upgrade the whole infrastructure we're likely to just increase our kill rate.
Considering the traffic flying off of the 'virtual Acosta Freeway,' and considering the greatly increased traffic entering and exiting Riverside Avenue at Lelia Street, we should either shove the station south just beyond Lelia, or plan to include an elevated walk from the station to the south side of Lelia. Even without the higher number of cars, the bridge abutment and the new Skyway Station itself will combine to create a somewhat blind condition for drivers coming off of the Acosta and making the right onto Lelia.
I could see this playing out easily:
Small crowd of people just coming out of the Skyway gate headed for the shopping center. Some will use the crosswalk and others will take a more direct path across Lelia. Car comes flying down the Acosta and finds the light about to turn at Lelia, so the driver brakes only lightly and tries to make the corner... SPLAT! splat, splat, splat, SQUISH, thump... We are pretty piss poor at thinking through our pedestrian and bike infrastructure.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on May 21, 2014, 12:03:35 AM
2) Are TIGER grants ever partially funded or is it always all or nothing?
yes...that is most often the case.
speaking of safety concerns:
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/05/20/jacksonville-ranks-number-3-for-most-dangerous.html
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 20, 2014, 10:17:01 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on May 20, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
In fact, a system planner from one of the bike share companies that recently visited Jax said quote "Jacksonville has one of the most impressive collections of urban neighborhoods in the entire southeast."
I think this is taken for granted way too much by Jaxsons.
Truth!!!, people have no idea that in terms of scale Riverside stands alone in the USA for a historic neighborhood. I think they get San Marco but are skeptical of Springfield and oblivious to St. Nicholas and Durkeeville.
Durkeeville should definitely be a priority. Many people actually still live there unlike Lavilla.
Durkeeville is still denser than Riverside, San Marco and Springfield, despite +50 years of population decline.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 21, 2014, 08:48:00 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on May 21, 2014, 12:03:35 AM
2) Are TIGER grants ever partially funded or is it always all or nothing?
yes...that is most often the case.
Oh ok. So what generally happens then? Do the applicants have to find funding to make the difference or can they alter their project to match the lower funding amount?
Most applicants don't win anything. Most of those who win, only win partial funding. There's not enough cash to go around:
QuoteMay 15, 2014: U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx announced that applications to the U.S. Department of Transportation for its sixth round of Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) grants totaled $9.5 billion, 15 times the $600 million set aside for the program, demonstrating the continued need for transportation investment nationwide. The Department received 797 eligible applications, compared to 585 in 2013, from 49 states, U.S. territories and the District of Columbia.
http://www.dot.gov/tiger
I'm confused. What does a main hub for bike share look like? I'm assuming it has more bike racks than the typical bike share station? Also, is Unity Plaza purchasing the naming rights? Anyway, hopefully JTA's TIGER grant application to fund the Skyway extension and this bike share program is successful.
QuoteBike Share program in works to come to Jacksonville
The Unity Plaza bike share program is expecting updates later this summer as to whether it will receive a prestigious federal government TIGER Grant.
The proposal lists a cost of about $1.5 million for the bike share program. The Jacksonville Transportation Authority submitted the proposal.
Although finalization of plans is following the announcement of the TIGER Grant recipients, the prognosis looks good for Jacksonville's future in bike sharing. Jen Jones, executive director of Unity Plaza, said sources told her the federal government is looking favorably on Jacksonville's grant proposal.
full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/07/08/bike-share-program-in-works-to-come-to.html
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/assets/thumbs/image.2098.feature.jpg)
I can't wait to hear "Excuse me sir, excuse me, can I get a dollar to get a bike?"
I am pretty sure you will need some sort of debit or credit card to get a bike rental....
I love idea of bike share I would just like to hear more about addressing bike infrastructure before we just flood the streets with bikes. Case in point on the 4th of July riverside ave was a mad house people where driving like maniacs down riverside ave. So lets add a few hundred bikes to the mix and see what happens.
^ Cities that have added bike share have also added infrastructure (bike lanes and such) at the same time or shortly thereafter. Data shows that more bikes on the road yields more safety. Much of the problems Jax. has now can be traced back to drivers not expecting to see bicyclists (or pedestrians) so they aren't looking for them. Having a few hundred brightly colored bikes on the streets of the urban core would help change driver behavior rapidly.
Along those lines, I recently saw this video on Protected Intersections for Bikes and thought it was pretty cool.
https://vimeo.com/86721046
Quote from: thelakelander on July 09, 2014, 09:12:58 AM
I'm confused. What does a main hub for bike share look like? I'm assuming it has more bike racks than the typical bike share station? Also, is Unity Plaza purchasing the naming rights? Anyway, hopefully JTA's TIGER grant application to fund the Skyway extension and this bike share program is successful.
I'm still not sure what a successful application is. If TIGER recipients only get partial funding what is the next step? Are they allowed to modify their plan or is the only recourse to secure more funding from another source?
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 09, 2014, 11:32:00 AM
^ Cities that have added bike share have also added infrastructure (bike lanes and such) at the same time or shortly thereafter. Data shows that more bikes on the road yields more safety. Much of the problems Jax. has now can be traced back to drivers not expecting to see bicyclists (or pedestrians) so they aren't looking for them. Having a few hundred brightly colored bikes on the streets of the urban core would help change driver behavior rapidly.
Tufsu1 I hope that is the case. It only took someone getting thrown off the Matthews bridge before they finally changed the horrible grating they had. I just hope this will be more proactive then reactive. That being said it doesn't stop me from riding but I definitely get the "are you crazy" look when I try and spread the good word of bicycle commuting downtown.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on July 09, 2014, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 09, 2014, 09:12:58 AM
I'm confused. What does a main hub for bike share look like? I'm assuming it has more bike racks than the typical bike share station? Also, is Unity Plaza purchasing the naming rights? Anyway, hopefully JTA's TIGER grant application to fund the Skyway extension and this bike share program is successful.
I'm still not sure what a successful application is. If TIGER recipients only get partial funding what is the next step? Are they allowed to modify their plan or is the only recourse to secure more funding from another source?
A successful application is one that results in some money being sent our way. From my understanding, JTA is shooting for a portion of funding in the form of a TIGER Grant, which they'll use to match with their own money.
Quote from: jaxlore on July 09, 2014, 11:11:25 AM
I love idea of bike share I would just like to hear more about addressing bike infrastructure before we just flood the streets with bikes.
Chattanooga is an example of a city that has less bike infrastructure than Jax, but still moved forward with implementing bike sharing.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3210024125_7Pw4kXN-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3210035390_RwC2T2G-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Chattanooga-Next-City-Vanguard/i-CzTCW8d/0/L/P1690893-L.jpg)
Regarding bike safety. I just did bike share in NYC in both Manhattan and Brooklyn, where bikes aren't allowed on sidewalks at all. Did a one day unlimited pass and rode all the way from the Lower East Side, through Greenwich Village to Midtown, to the Upper West Side. Must have covered about 10-15 miles and was on some of the busiest roads in the city. Also rode all over Brooklyn. If New York can become a relatively bike friendly city, the urban core neighborhoods and Downtown Jax can.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 09, 2014, 01:27:40 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on July 09, 2014, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 09, 2014, 09:12:58 AM
I'm confused. What does a main hub for bike share look like? I'm assuming it has more bike racks than the typical bike share station? Also, is Unity Plaza purchasing the naming rights? Anyway, hopefully JTA's TIGER grant application to fund the Skyway extension and this bike share program is successful.
I'm still not sure what a successful application is. If TIGER recipients only get partial funding what is the next step? Are they allowed to modify their plan or is the only recourse to secure more funding from another source?
A successful application is one that results in some money being sent our way. From my understanding, JTA is shooting for a portion of funding in the form of a TIGER Grant, which they'll use to match with their own money.
Something is getting lost in translation. Our grant application included matching funds to complete the project. I believe that is a requirement of TIGER grants. But I thought you and TUFSU were saying that even the funding requests are generally only partially fulfilled. Is that not actually the case? If the government awards a TIGER grant do they generally give "full funding," as in the full request amount?
In the arts, our city, state and federal grants are never fully funded. But thats always the expectation and our projects are therefore not dependent on full funding for implementation.
Quote from: CityLife on July 09, 2014, 01:50:02 PM
Regarding bike safety. I just did bike share in NYC in both Manhattan and Brooklyn, where bikes aren't allowed on sidewalks at all. Did a one day unlimited pass and rode all the way from the Lower East Side, through Greenwich Village to Midtown, to the Upper West Side. Must have covered about 10-15 miles and was on some of the busiest roads in the city. Also rode all over Brooklyn. If New York can become a relatively bike friendly city, the urban core neighborhoods and Downtown Jax can.
Yes indeed. We have many miles of very navigable suburbs here, fanning out in all directions from Downtown. Not to mention several river bridges. You can get almost anywhere on a bike, theoretically. The only major block I can think of is the Overland Bridge expressway area, but there are ways under that.
QuoteBut I thought you and TUFSU were saying that even the funding requests are generally only partially fulfilled. Is that not actually the case? If the government awards a TIGER grant do they generally give "full funding," as in the full request amount?
IF JTA gets the grant (and the picture isn't exactly as rosy as the JBJ article would lead you to believe-it also hase some inaccuricies, however the TIGER grant effort by JTA was much, much better this go around... but there are also a lot of other good projects that have applied for funding), then it would probably only get 50-60% of the mone they asked for. At that point, the applicant has to scale the project down to what is realistic given the combination of cash on hand and grant money awarded.
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 09, 2014, 11:32:00 AM
^ Cities that have added bike share have also added infrastructure (bike lanes and such) at the same time or shortly thereafter. Data shows that more bikes on the road yields more safety. Much of the problems Jax. has now can be traced back to drivers not expecting to see bicyclists (or pedestrians) so they aren't looking for them. Having a few hundred brightly colored bikes on the streets of the urban core would help change driver behavior rapidly.
Maybe so, but Florida drivers seem amine to common sense approaches like learning to share the lanes. Thus we have the third highest massacre rate in the nation for killing bicyclist and pedestrians.
Reminds me of an old hippie friend back in Portland. Determined to teach his cat to use the toilet every time the poor thing would squat, he'd scoop him up and run to the toilet. This was way back in the crazy days of the late 60's early 70's. As I recall the bathroom was missing a window and except for a waterbed, the house was missing furnishings or a litter box. He would jam the cat down on the toilet and start yelling 'SHIT IDIOT! SHIT!' and once he got really pissed off he would throw the poor animal out the bathroom window and the cat would be gone for a day. Finally the cat got the idea, he would run to the bathroom, do his duty on top of the seat, then jump out the window! I don't expect much more from these bottle throwers.
We need grade separated bike lanes and multi use trails.
Quote from: fieldafm on July 09, 2014, 05:26:18 PM
QuoteBut I thought you and TUFSU were saying that even the funding requests are generally only partially fulfilled. Is that not actually the case? If the government awards a TIGER grant do they generally give "full funding," as in the full request amount?
IF JTA gets the grant (and the picture isn't exactly as rosy as the JBJ article would lead you to believe-it also hase some inaccuricies, however the TIGER grant effort by JTA was much, much better this go around... but there are also a lot of other good projects that have applied for funding), then it would probably only get 50-60% of the mone they asked for. At that point, the applicant has to scale the project down to what is realistic given the combination of cash on hand and grant money awarded.
Ah, understood. Thanks, Mike! I guess it's a good thing that the application seems like it's not as cost-effective as it could be.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on July 09, 2014, 05:59:57 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 09, 2014, 11:32:00 AM
^ Cities that have added bike share have also added infrastructure (bike lanes and such) at the same time or shortly thereafter. Data shows that more bikes on the road yields more safety. Much of the problems Jax. has now can be traced back to drivers not expecting to see bicyclists (or pedestrians) so they aren't looking for them. Having a few hundred brightly colored bikes on the streets of the urban core would help change driver behavior rapidly.
Maybe so, but Florida drivers seem amine to common sense approaches like learning to share the lanes. Thus we have the third highest massacre rate in the nation for killing bicyclist and pedestrians.
I would submit to you that drivers in places like Miami Beach and even the Jax beaches have come to expect to see bikes.
It appears JTA has lost again in its effort to win TIGER grant money to expand the Skyway to Brooklyn and bring Bike Share to Jax....
QuoteTIGER grant winners to be announced this week
News on the winners of the sixth round of TIGER, the popular federal grant program for innovative local transportation projects, is leaking out already, with formal release of the full list expected later this week.
It's always a poorly-kept secret when the winners of USDOT's TIGER grants are about to be announced because of the requirement to notify congressional representatives for districts containing a winning project a few days before the full announcement. As a result, news on some of the winners begins to leak out 2-3 days before the list of winners from USDOT is released.
Some that have already surfaced:
Bus rapid transit in Richmond, Va.
A project to expand the port in Norfolk, Va.
A new bridge on the border of Maine and New Hampshire
A system of downtown and waterfront street improvements that includes a new greenway trail in Waterbury, CT
A new metro station near an emerging job core in St. Louis, MO
And quite a few others.
We'll have the full list here as soon as it's released, and then add new winners to our full map of all six editions of TIGER grants dating back to February 2010. That's a great way to see the nationwide impact of this important program all at once.
Full article: http://www.t4america.org/2014/09/10/tiger-grant-winners-to-be-announced-this-week/
Oh well. Maybe that can move forward with a cheaper approach, at least for the time being.
I'm an eternal optimist so do you have any more info Lake? Cause I don't see this suggesting that JTA hasn't won just yet... think there's still a good day or two for news to break before I'd throw in the towel. (and of course throw in the towel meaning look for alternative funding which apparently would have been necessary, to a lesser degree, anyway)
It's confirmed from multiple insider sauces..
(http://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/multiple-sources.jpg)
Good ol' Lake crushing our dreams :P
Maybe they can look to Richard Clark and his calculator
haha, well if Broussard says so... :o
Yes, the TIGER grant will not be bringing it's talents to Jax this year. No ring chasing vets will be following either.
Why not rally to build a bike trail that goes all over the city? You know, like a highway for bicyclists. Then, if the city is on board, we all pitch in to help raise funds. I'll be more than happy to donate for something like this.
The article on another thread mentions connecting any good sections of bike and pedestrian pathways for complete transit. In other words, a bike path is no good unless it makes it all the way to somewhere. Also, it should be relatively safe. Just painting stripes on the side of a road isn't enough to make some people feel comfortable with exposing their bodies to traffic.
Furthermore, and this is the best thought, who says bike paths have to follow roads all the way, or run beside a road all the way, or near any roads at all? As long as it reaches one or more significant destination(s) and is clearly marked.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 11, 2014, 08:14:40 PM
Yes, the TIGER grant will not be bringing it's talents to Jax this year. No ring chasing vets will be following either.
Well, what's next for JTA? They're keeping fares free for another year!
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/09/12/skyway-extends-free-fare-through-next-year.html
Quote from: fieldafm on May 20, 2014, 02:55:07 PM
QuoteI wholeheartedly agree with the bike share plan but why was it thrown on the end almost as an afterthought?
I wouldn't characterize it that way. JTA is interested in bike share and has met with many community partners regarding bike share.
I'm far from a JTA apologist, so I'll give some authentic credence here to the notion that JTA is geniunely serious about bike share. It all (always) comes down to realisitic funidng options. After looking at this for a few years, I just don't see some white knight in shining armor willing to write a check to start a bike share system in Jax... and working with JTA has the added benefit of integrating bike share into a functional transit system (successful implementation must include cooperation, not friction) and having shovel-ready (so to speak) ROW access. Success (with anything) is always contingent when the variables of timing and opportunity line up in harmony.
At least one member of the JTA leadership is an avid cyclist and rides regularly from his Springfield residence. That's really a first. So to have somebody inside the JTA building who understands is a big plus.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 11, 2014, 05:35:18 PM
It's confirmed from multiple insider sauces..
(http://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/multiple-sources.jpg)
767 applications totaling $9.5B for just $600M in actual funding. Lots of disappointed cities - not just Jax.
^Very true. The results are not surprising given the amount of money available verses the amount requested in the applications.
What's the future of Jacksonville's Skyway?QuoteThe Jacksonville Skyway, also known as the People Mover, could undergo change in 2015. The Skyway System Plan and Technology Assessment is a study taking place that will have its results released in the spring, and it could determine the fate of the people mover in Downtown Jacksonville. At the Business Journal's Downtown Development breakfast earlier this week, Jacksonville Transportation Authority CEO Nat Ford revealed the study will take a complete look at the usefulness of the Skyway.
"The Skyway is the pink elephant in the room," he said. "By the spring of 2015 we will be completing a study that will examine the Skyway from top to bottom, look at it's useful life, the future of the Skyway." Ford said the study will help determine whether or not the Skyway, which is 25 years old, should be extended or not. Opened in 1989, the monorail cost around $200 million to build, and has never come close to reaching the original ridership projections.
"The Skyway is major infrastructure, a major part of downtown," Ford said. He added that the Skyway is actually gaining in ridership, and the recent changes to the bus routes will connect to it in a much more productive manner. Still he said, there are concerns, which the study will address when completed. "This is going to be a very objective look," he said, "at the future of the Skyway." In May, 2013, JTA officials asked for federal funding to expand the Skyway line one stop so it could serve Brooklyn, where new retail and the 220 Riverside project have been built. That funding was turned down.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/12/05/study-will-assess-how-to-use-jtas-downtown-people.html
Stop running all the buses downtown, extend down to sport complex via Bay Street, extend to 8th Street n 5 Points, charge a dollar to enter Skyway gate/system.....then let it be. Nothing has chaged on it since 2000. Hemming Plaza and San Marco are the only good stations with things near them. Jefferson Station has nothing.
We will have an article on pedestrians and (to a lesser extent) bikes in the near future. About how new laws, and a new bank account allow you to fully participate or donate...
I PROMISE!
My 19 year old daughter, who knows nothing about transit saw the Skyway last night while in the city and made the following remark......"more people would use it if it went to the beach, I know I would....."
Spoken by the next generation.
Quote from: Coolyfett on December 06, 2014, 08:13:41 AM
Stop running all the buses downtown, extend down to sport complex via Bay Street, extend to 8th Street n 5 Points, charge a dollar to enter Skyway gate/system.....then let it be. Nothing has chaged on it since 2000. Hemming Plaza and San Marco are the only good stations with things near them. Jefferson Station has nothing.
Aside from One Spark, I don't know that I've ever seen Convention Station or Jefferson Station operating... Do those lines ever run? I 100% agree though we need to be aggressive in order to get the TIGER grant. Extending to the Stadium with 1 or 2 stops along the way and over to 5 Points, with stops at the fresh market and arts market, would be huge additions that would massively increase ridership. I would love to be able to ride from Riverplace Station to the bars on Bay Street, the Fresh Market and into riverside on the weekends....
My skyway extension priority list would be:
1) Brooklyn
2) East San Marco
3) Closer to Five Points (unless streetcar is being developed)
4) Stadium/Shipyards (unless streetcar is being developed)
5) Springfield (unless streetcar is being developed)
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on January 05, 2015, 01:01:56 PM
My skyway extension priority list would be:
1) Brooklyn
2) East San Marco
3) Closer to Five Points (unless streetcar is being developed)
4) Stadium/Shipyards (unless streetcar is being developed)
5) Springfield (unless streetcar is being developed)
Id put Springfield 8th Street Shands as number 1 for Hospital access, but I like your list.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on January 05, 2015, 11:51:16 AM
Aside from One Spark, I don't know that I've ever seen Convention Station or Jefferson Station operating... Do those lines ever run? I 100% agree though we need to be aggressive in order to get the TIGER grant. Extending to the Stadium with 1 or 2 stops along the way and over to 5 Points, with stops at the fresh market and arts market, would be huge additions that would massively increase ridership. I would love to be able to ride from Riverplace Station to the bars on Bay Street, the Fresh Market and into riverside on the weekends....
All of the Skyway stations and routes including Convention Center and Jefferson operate weekdays from 6am to 9pm at 6 min headways. While the routes and station placement don't seem to make a lot of sense today, they were planned in anticipation and support of massive redevelopment in the areas surrounding those two stations. Their role as only park-n-ride servers is a residual of the failure of the redevelopment effort (subject of many other past threads).
Quote from: jaxjaguar on January 05, 2015, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: Coolyfett on December 06, 2014, 08:13:41 AM
Stop running all the buses downtown, extend down to sport complex via Bay Street, extend to 8th Street n 5 Points, charge a dollar to enter Skyway gate/system.....then let it be. Nothing has chaged on it since 2000. Hemming Plaza and San Marco are the only good stations with things near them. Jefferson Station has nothing.
Aside from One Spark, I don't know that I've ever seen Convention Station or Jefferson Station operating... Do those lines ever run? I 100% agree though we need to be aggressive in order to get the TIGER grant. Extending to the Stadium with 1 or 2 stops along the way and over to 5 Points, with stops at the fresh market and arts market, would be huge additions that would massively increase ridership. I would love to be able to ride from Riverplace Station to the bars on Bay Street, the Fresh Market and into riverside on the weekends....
Downtown Jacksonville has a lot of empty lots, the lots by Jefferson Station and Convention Center Station need something there, but it seems those lots are never destined for development.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on January 05, 2015, 11:51:16 AM
Aside from One Spark, I don't know that I've ever seen Convention Station or Jefferson Station operating... Do those lines ever run?
I've parked and taken the skyway to art walk before.
Quote from: neptune on January 05, 2015, 01:33:33 PM
While the routes and station placement don't seem to make a lot of sense today, they were planned in anticipation and support of massive redevelopment in the areas surrounding those two stations. Their role as only park-n-ride servers is a residual of the failure of the redevelopment effort (subject of many other past threads).
Of course, COJ or JTA has to be willing to sell the land if it's going to be developed.
Quote from: neptune on January 05, 2015, 01:33:33 PM
Quote from: jaxjaguar on January 05, 2015, 11:51:16 AM
Aside from One Spark, I don't know that I've ever seen Convention Station or Jefferson Station operating... Do those lines ever run? I 100% agree though we need to be aggressive in order to get the TIGER grant. Extending to the Stadium with 1 or 2 stops along the way and over to 5 Points, with stops at the fresh market and arts market, would be huge additions that would massively increase ridership. I would love to be able to ride from Riverplace Station to the bars on Bay Street, the Fresh Market and into riverside on the weekends....
All of the Skyway stations and routes including Convention Center and Jefferson operate weekdays from 6am to 9pm at 6 min headways. While the routes and station placement don't seem to make a lot of sense today, they were planned in anticipation and support of massive redevelopment in the areas surrounding those two stations. Their role as only park-n-ride servers is a residual of the failure of the redevelopment effort (subject of many other past threads).
+1