Metro Jacksonville

Ever wonder what is "human blight"? 

this is ridiculous

vote her out and be done with it.  stop the silly posts and polls

A wow thread.

Or just use her definition.


For Lee, human blight defines anyone who "contribute to the demise" of Jacksonville's neighborhoods.

"They stand on corners all day long, they break into people's homes, they put trash on the ground, and they sell drugs," she said.

"They don't work, and that is not because there are not some jobs out there, that is a result of 'I don't care,' and as long as I have a business and I can contribute to the demise by getting young folks to do what I do, then that is the order of those types of businesses."

I would say there is such a thing as human blight.  In more or less words, that is a term used frequently here in progressive SF.  I don't think that in Jacksonville's case that people should rush to demolish sound structures in order to correct the perceived problem.  There is likely a far better, if not more long term/difficult to implement immediately solution to the problem.

Just to hear an elected local representative describe any human beings as blight is quite frightening. If this is what she says out load for public consumption, then what does she say in private?

Can we consider Denise Lee and her stupidity a blight on the City Council?

I don't quite understand what is so horrible about her expression.  I'm not exactly an insensitive human being, but I do have standards for humanity and I believe there is such a thing as human blight.  In fact, I think it's quite an awesome phrase actually.

You ask a good question. What is wrong with labeling people "human blight"

Take away the fact that the urban core and its people elected her to represent them (all of them) and that she has spent decades doing this (surely improvement could be made by now one would think) --  it marginalizes (further) the poor and declares war on the poor without offering assistance. It claims blight status on shaky ground and without any due process claims this group of people to be "bad for the neighborhood".

I don't believe she said 'poor'...You did.  The poor are not a problem.  The grifters and criminals are.

Maybe only those that live in the "getto" know what human blight may be. If seeing alot of drugs and distruction at your front door causes you to feel that is blight for then it is...I dont thing those that are blessed enough to not have to deal with drugs at the front door can comprehend it and should keep their opinions to themselves maybe. Unfortunately we live in a modern metro city and life sucks right now for many and sometimes desperate times call for desperate messures and thats what we have ended up with

Quote from: carpnter on May 07, 2014, 04:24:44 PM
Can we consider Denise Lee and her stupidity a blight on the City Council?

I know I do...

There are 3 types of poor people, and she clearly singles out one of them, not all of them.  Nothing wrong with calling people out for the wrong things they do.

She's not singling out the mentally ill.
She's not singling out most of the poor, who are out of sight out of mind (poor families, poor kids in homes, poor elderly...we don't see them out in public so much but they make up a huge portion of "the poor").

She is singling out all the people who are too easy to really dislike for their utter laziness and ill regard for civility.  Nothing wrong with doing that, plenty of "progressives" single out the same people elsewhere.  It's a recognizable problem, but there is no PC way of dealing with it.

Quote from: Rob68 on May 07, 2014, 05:58:20 PM
Maybe only those that live in the "getto" know what human blight may be. If seeing alot of drugs and distruction at your front door causes you to feel that is blight for then it is...I dont thing those that are blessed enough to not have to deal with drugs at the front door can comprehend it and should keep their opinions to themselves maybe. Unfortunately we live in a modern metro city and life sucks right now for many and sometimes desperate times call for desperate messures and thats what we have ended up with

That's very true.  I don't understand how folks in Jax who want to clean up neighborhoods like Springfield and surrounding neighborhoods get all offended when another resident who happens to sit on CC decides to take a tougher stance on the real problems, the real blight.

Her way of going about it by demolishing homes might be misguided, but she has identified a real problem.  People themselves can be a real problem.  We obviously have something to do with global warming, and that's a macro scale.  We poach rare animals, overfish the oceans, kill each other, rob, lie, cheat, and have affairs.  None of us is pure as the wind driven snow, but in this case the people being called out are not doing one thing positive for their environment, and in fact truly are mostly doing illegal things, like loitering, selling drugs, breaking into homes, vandalizing private property, littering, etc.  What's wrong with calling all these assholes out and trying to figure out what to do with them or how to get them to clean themselves up?

And it is a truism that there are people in the world who are utterly worthless.  They will not clean themselves up.  They have no excuses for their actions.  They have massive chips on their shoulder.  They aren't mentally ill.  They aren't the elderly or small children.  They are just pieces of shit, human blight.  They use and mooch and then shit on the world around them, without a care.  I don't care what Denise calls them, she is RIGHT.

And how, exactly does one know if a person is "a piece of shit?"

I guess, that's my question.

It's subjective, sheclown, (obviously), and I'm sure all of us in the room, including Denise, have the same overall definition of what is and isn't human blight.  She did specify to a degree what she was referring to when she listed out a string of actions often taken by her group in question.  She made it otherwise clear she wasn't referring to helpless individuals, the elderly, small children, or anyone else who requires a lot of sympathy.

What I am questioning is your immediate reaction to Denise's comment, as if you are taking it personally or as if you believe it to be the most offensive thing you've ever heard.

Quote from: simms3 on May 07, 2014, 06:35:58 PM
It's subjective, sheclown, (obviously), and I'm sure all of us in the room, including Denise, have the same overall definition of what is and isn't human blight.  She did specify to a degree what she was referring to when she listed out a string of actions often taken by her group in question.  She made it otherwise clear she wasn't referring to helpless individuals, the elderly, small children, or anyone else who requires a lot of sympathy.

What I am questioning is your immediate reaction to Denise's comment, as if you are taking it personally or as if you believe it to be the most offensive thing you've ever heard.

I believe it is the most offensive thing I've ever heard.

I'm flabbergasted.

Ok, well I feel sorry for you.  You wouldn't last a day working in the private sector as needlessly sensitive as you are.  It *DOESN'T* help anyone to turn a blind eye to criminality and laziness, especially if the two are intertwined.  There are plenty of hard working poor people who obey the law, take care of what they have, respect the world around them, and are just trying to legitimately get by who are probably even more irked and disgusted by real human blight than rich council members and residents of middle/upper class neighborhoods outside of the area in question.

I think the overarching problem with this line of thinking is that there's simply no need for it.

"Human blight" is bold-faced labeling of people as a disease, saying nothing of their actions or the social problems underlying them. It's vague (Who gets to categorize who, based on what?) and reeks of the same fundamental mindset that leads to racial, ethnic, sexual orientation, or social status "cleansing". We already have this concept of crime and criminality, and punishment for what people do, not for who they are. And so should it be in a society that at least pretends to value freedom and liberty.

What I gather from the discussion surrounding this, is that you'd be hard-pressed to find a fitting poster-child of "human blight" that isn't in some way also breaking laws. So stick to that. Address crime, address social inequality, substance abuse, education, employment, accessibility, public health, housing, etc. To go from these approaches to addressing people as a disease is a useless, unhelpful, and unnecessary leap into absurdity and hyperbole.

EDIT: I should add that I find the use of the term "blight" in regards to the built environment or urban landscape absurd, as well, but at least it's not calling humans a disease. That's levels worse.

Quote from: Scrub Palmetto on May 07, 2014, 06:51:50 PM
I think the overarching problem with this line of thinking is that there's simply no need for it.

"Human blight" is bold-faced labeling of people as a disease, saying nothing of their actions or the social problems underlying them. It's vague (Who gets to categorize who, based on what?) and reeks of the same fundamental mindset that leads to racial, ethnic, sexual orientation, or social status "cleansing". We already have this concept of crime and criminality, and punishment for what people do, not for who they are. And so should it be in a society that at least pretends to value freedom and liberty.

What I gather from the discussion surrounding this, is that you'd be hard-pressed to find a fitting poster-child of "human blight" that isn't in some way also breaking laws. So stick to that. Address crime, address social inequality, substance abuse, education, employment, accessibility, public health, housing, etc. To go from these approaches to addressing people as a disease is a useless, unhelpful, and unnecessary leap into absurdity and hyperbole.

EDIT: I should add that I find the use of the term "blight" in regards to the built environment or urban landscape absurd, as well, but at least it's not calling humans a disease. That's levels worse.

yes.  What scrub said.

Quote from: simms3 on May 07, 2014, 06:44:51 PM
Ok, well I feel sorry for you.  You wouldn't last a day working in the private sector as needlessly sensitive as you are.  It *DOESN'T* help anyone to turn a blind eye to criminality and laziness, especially if the two are intertwined.  There are plenty of hard working poor people who obey the law, take care of what they have, respect the world around them, and are just trying to legitimately get by who are probably even more irked and disgusted by real human blight than rich council members and residents of middle/upper class neighborhoods outside of the area in question.

simms.  I enjoy the discussion, but you don't have a clue about me or how or where I spend my time. 

So you guys are placing 100% of the blame for these people's actions on their environment and on the ills of society, rather than holding them to any degree of personal responsibility.

I'd call much of Hollywood "human blight".  One of the most evil industries out there, and it's pervasive.  Lots of money, fame, beautiful people, etc, but anyone who has interacted with the "industry" in any meaningful way knows that drugs, cheating, raping, utter disregard for humanity as a whole, really insiduous agendas, etc are all a part of it.  PS doesn't mean I wouldn't hang out with someone who claims to be in industry, ha.

Human blight can run across many spectrums and is a result of a poorly defined moral compass and having no principle.  I like the term human blight because it puts most of the blame on the individual and not on "society" or the "environment".  I'm hard on myself and other people, though, and I don't believe in being fully sympathetic to those who don't deserve 100% of my sympathy.

In fact I think I have almost no respect for you, sheclown, because "human blight" is the MOST offensive thing you've ever heard.  Wow.  What a simple little life you have lived for the age you appear to be in your profile pic.  I've heard managers in my company say things that are way more offensive than that.  I've heard people in private life and in public life say things way more offensive.  Like turning something like general "human blight" into an utterly racist remark, rather than a remark categorizing people based on their actions or motives.

So racist remarks, sexist remarks, and other remarks based on qualities that are predetermined in people are less offensive than remarks made by a woman who happens to be black and lives near Springfield talking about loiterers, vandals, and drug dealers near (or in) her own neighborhood?

Some people are so misguided, I swear...

Simms, to clarify, if I read it correctly, the definition of human blight given was about the APPEARANCE of wrong doing. Hanging out on porches and street corners and stuff. Assuming things not necessarily in evidence.  A slippery slope indeed.  I agree law breakers are owed no quarter, but can one really tell just by looking at people?

Imthinkmsome are reading much more into what she said here. That is fair I guess but then we all get caught up and worried about the words instead of the issue.  She lives there and knows the issues.  And she wants to deal with the issues. We may not like the way she will deal with them but I guess some would not like anything she may do. If you don't like it, take it to her directly. Not sure what putting up a silly poll with silly examples accomplishes.  Hey my opinion.  Seems like pot stirring.

Yeah, I'm not really sure this works as a poll with the given options, but I find the points and the discussion meaningful.

I've said everything I want to in my previous post, so I'll chime out for now.

I was trying to make a point -- obviously too clever for my own good :)

Blight is in the eye of the beholder.

We see this in Springfield all of the time.  I'm thinking the 24/7 house on East 9th which would qualify as blight to just about anyone -- but a closer look at the people reveals the folks are harmless (albeit drunk) and in their way, good neighbors keeping a look out for trouble on their street.   I'm thinking Kenneth who repairs his house with slats from discarded pallets, but loves his flowers and plays his jazz for those lucky enough to live nearby. 

We all share this city --

Some see human blight and some see a human being.  I always look for the human being underneath.  I do believe this is Gloria's point.  http://www.ijreview.com/2014/05/136286-homeless-mans-previous-gesture-good-faith-pays-back-forty-fold-amazing-turn-events/

If I knew how to post a video, I would have.  Gloria maybe when you have time you can make this link an easier view.  :)

"Operation Blight" is on page 7 of Welcome to Actionville.

I'm still trying to wrap my arms around Environmental Ethics- Vince Seibold page 5 of Welcome to Actionville.

Quoteutter laziness and ill regard for civility.

A lot of people like this are not poor either.

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd256/dellwooddaisy/pigpen_infant_bodysuit.jpg)

Quote from: Dog Walker on May 09, 2014, 11:25:33 AM

Quoteutter laziness and ill regard for civility.

A lot of people like this are not poor either.

Not sure if you're trying to call anyone out, but this has been agreed upon by at least one poster in this very controversial thread.  :)

Quote from: simms3 on May 07, 2014, 07:18:36 PM
I'd call much of Hollywood "human blight".

Human blight can run across many spectrums and is a result of a poorly defined moral compass and having no principle.  I like the term human blight because it puts most of the blame on the individual and not on "society" or the "environment".  I'm hard on myself and other people, though, and I don't believe in being fully sympathetic to those who don't deserve 100% of my sympathy.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on May 08, 2014, 03:11:20 PM
Some see human blight and some see a human being.  I always look for the human being underneath.  I do believe this is Gloria's point.  http://www.ijreview.com/2014/05/136286-homeless-mans-previous-gesture-good-faith-pays-back-forty-fold-amazing-turn-events/

If I knew how to post a video, I would have.  Gloria maybe when you have time you can make this link an easier view.  :)

Soon as I get back to jax I will!!  Thanks

Quote from: Jumpinjack on May 09, 2014, 11:58:28 AM

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd256/dellwooddaisy/pigpen_infant_bodysuit.jpg)

:)

The headline sounds like she meant ugly people.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on May 08, 2014, 03:11:20 PM
Some see human blight and some see a human being.  I always look for the human being underneath.  I do believe this is Gloria's point.  http://www.ijreview.com/2014/05/136286-homeless-mans-previous-gesture-good-faith-pays-back-forty-fold-amazing-turn-events/

If I knew how to post a video, I would have.  Gloria maybe when you have time you can make this link an easier view.  :)

I should resist, but I just can't:

A great example of human blight are the guys who go to reasonably nice restaurants wearing wife beater shirts. Nothing ruins a decent meal quite as much as having some clod's hairy armpits in plain view.

Easy Gloria, every person in the first part of the video equates to the said referenced excrement. I think the two of us were cut out of the same cloth girl!

http://www.youtube.com/v/SGPjUyVtTQw?version=3&hl=en_US

I hope that Denise Lee's intent is those who she classifies as "human blight" are really "criminals".  That said, some of her comments made during the recent video taken by Times Union reporter Steve Patterson are concerning.  When I first started noting the quotes I did not note the time but then began noting the time in the video.

QuoteI'm tired of them calling my office, so I got to do something.

QuoteLook how nasty

QuoteHe's a drug dealer cuz if he was worth a durn he'd come out and see what's going on.

14:46

QuoteI'm gonna come back here and get her fat ass sitting up on the porch doing nothing. With her nasty self over there.

15:25

QuoteLook at him.  What you looking at?  Why don't you go get a job.

22:05 - She is on the phone talking to someone:

QuoteI'm sick of these negros.  And If I wasn't in the car with Steve I'd call them something else. And I mean that.  You should have SEEN them up here at Moncrief and 13th.

39:00

QuoteAnd when you see young, white guys it's drugs.  Coming to buy these drugs.

40:08

QuoteI'd rather see all these places boarded up torn down Steve.  You know what I mean? 

QuoteOk, well I feel sorry for you.  You wouldn't last a day working in the private sector as needlessly sensitive as you are.   

I'm not sure what the private sector has to do with this discussion but somehow it does. Did I miss something?
Where do you work that you are subject to such abuse? Should we get some coffee and talk about this? It sounds like you are in a very unhealthy environment and some how you are validating yourself by thinking you can withstand the abuse. You can't. This video from Key and Peele might help shed some light on your situation.

http://www.youtube.com/v/CUvFeyGxaaU

QuoteIt *DOESN'T* help anyone to turn a blind eye to criminality and laziness, especially if the two are intertwined.

So, you think that government should be involved in adjusting people's behaviors when it comes to laziness? Are you wanting Denise Lee to create laws outlawing laziness?

Can you please explain how "criminality" and "laziness" are synonymous?

Quote from: stephendare on June 15, 2014, 03:58:50 PM
Im sorry, I just found this.

Are these actual quotes from a City Council person?

Quote from: JaxUnicorn on May 15, 2014, 01:02:33 AM
I hope that Denise Lee's intent is those who she classifies as "human blight" are really "criminals".  That said, some of her comments made during the recent video taken by Times Union reporter Steve Patterson are concerning.  When I first started noting the quotes I did not note the time but then began noting the time in the video.

QuoteI'm tired of them calling my office, so I got to do something.

QuoteLook how nasty

QuoteHe's a drug dealer cuz if he was worth a durn he'd come out and see what's going on.

14:46

QuoteI'm gonna come back here and get her fat ass sitting up on the porch doing nothing. With her nasty self over there.

15:25

QuoteLook at him.  What you looking at?  Why don't you go get a job.

22:05 - She is on the phone talking to someone:

QuoteI'm sick of these negros.  And If I wasn't in the car with Steve I'd call them something else. And I mean that.  You should have SEEN them up here at Moncrief and 13th.

39:00

QuoteAnd when you see young, white guys it's drugs.  Coming to buy these drugs.

40:08

QuoteI'd rather see all these places boarded up torn down Steve.  You know what I mean? 

Stephen,  they are all Denise Lee quotes from the ride-along she and Steve Patterson with the Times Union did on "blight".

Quote from: stephendare on June 15, 2014, 06:20:46 PM

Quote from: stephendare on June 15, 2014, 05:16:05 PM

Quote from: sheclown on April 26, 2014, 04:15:36 PM

Alarmed about drug deals, Jacksonville councilwoman targets 'human blight'

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-03-27/story/alarmed-about-drug-deals-jacksonville-councilwoman-targets-human-blight#ixzz301eIKH5V


http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-03-27/story/alarmed-about-drug-deals-jacksonville-councilwoman-targets-human-blight

Holy crap, she's talking about closing off the s line bike path.

Thanks Kim, I just actually went through the video (second link).  Its very disappointing to hear the comments actually.

I was actually shocked at some of the things she said....  :(