Metro Jacksonville

http://jacksonville.com/news/2014-04-26/story/prominent-gop-fundraiser-peter-rummell-parts-ways-jacksonville-mayor-alvin#.U1wlHppywyw.twitter

Rummell delivers a "blistering" review of Alvin Brown's first term as Mayor.  Just a reminder Mr. Rummell you are the key player that put him there. 

QuoteRummell about Mayor Alvin Brown:Comment
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Former top fundraiser for Jacksonville Mayor Alvin Brown: 'He has no courage ... He has wimped out.'


Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/2014-04-26/story/former-top-fundraiser-jacksonville-mayor-alvin-brown-he-has-no-courage-he-has#.U1wlHppywyw.twitter#ixzz3023nA4dr

QuoteIt was spring 2011, and Peter Rummell, a powerful Northeast Florida Republican fundraiser, hastily gathered nearly 40 friends in a room at the downtown Hyatt.
Rummell made a surprising announcement: he would personally give $150,000 to help elect Alvin Brown, the underdog Democratic candidate for mayor. Within minutes, his pledge was matched by the other downtown business and civic leaders in attendance — many of whom, like Rummell, were registered Republicans but reluctant to support GOP candidate Mike Hogan's hard-line conservative campaign in the runoff against Brown....

Please read all of the reasons I listed on another thread with regard to Rummell's political backing of Alvin Brown and what it bought us as a city. Useless budgeting, no pension reform, complete lack of leadership, non support of the GLBT legislation and more.  Four years of lousy leadership which Rummell himself put into office using his money and friends in business. While he points his finger at Brown now, just remember that he is the guy that tipped the balance for Brown with money and influence. It cost us four years of leadership in a city that was in dire need of it with regard to all of the issues above and more   It appears Mr. Rummell himself now sees what I said all along.  Read Rummell's list of Brown's big failures according to Rummell.  What is not on the list but has him chagrined is the current DIA and it's lack luster impact on our city. 

This also points out what I tried to say previously as well about following Rummells lead in private endeavors and public.  He sure miscalculated on this one. I am not dissing the man or his personality, I am simply pointing to the influences money and power have on what happens to us and our future in Jacksonville and will continue to do so regardless of the backlash.  The reason is simple.  If we want better in all things Jacksonville, we must be focused on and understand leadership in this city both political and private.  We remain weak without that understanding. 

He still made the right call backing Brown over Hogan. We just wish the other choice had been Audrey Moran.

Rummell, like a lot of posters here took a pragmatic approach during the runoff. Brown was likely to do the least damage to the city and would be easier to oust after the first term.

If anyone is to blame, it is the voters of Jacksonville, for not even giving us the option of Moran or Mullaney in the runoff.

There were other folks in that race from the beginning.  Rummell could have thrown his support behind Audrey Moran early on and the outcome could have been much different as well.  Let's be clear, this is all about Alvin Brown right now from the moment he was elected mayor and what he has or has not accomplished.  Trying to make it about the other folks in the race is a non starter. 

Also another lesson in politics and power 101.  It is no mistake that Rummell is making this announcement while his support is high in the city because of One Spark.  No accident about the timing.  This race should never have been about party or personality and unfortunately folks picked personality over leadership skills across the board in this race.  There were several other candidates for mayor that knew what it took to deliver a "real" budget and could have also resolved the pension issue.  In the end someone who could have done that for this city was the right choice, not Brown.  It will be a few years down the road before folks understand in dollars and cents what Brown's lack of leadership skills cost us financially and that is going to impact what we as a city can afford in all other things.  That's the bottom line.  Brown sold us some snake oil, but in the magic oil just didn't work. 

Quote from: CityLife on April 26, 2014, 06:36:59 PM
Rummell, like a lot of posters here took a pragmatic approach during the runoff. Brown was likely to do the least damage to the city and would be easier to oust after the first term.

If anyone is to blame, it is the voters of Jacksonville, for not even giving us the option of Moran or Mullaney in the runoff.

City Life this is where you and others are grossly mistaken and I see it all the time when folks are discussing politics and leader ship. 
Brown will have cost us plenty in the end when we realize how the unresolved issue of pension will impact our financial future.   I fail to see what is pragmatic about using a "less harm" approach to choosing a mayor.  We could have had someone in office who understood how the city functions from the inside out and instead we got promises and hype about taking us to another level.  That is just sad.  What is a fact is that Moran, Mullaney and Hogan all knew what a real budget means and how to put one together as well as all having the leadership skills to have tackled the pension issue.

Stephen, I know you have been chomping at the bit to have me engage about Hogan and doggone it I am not going to do it.  But I will repeat that of the two final candidates, Hogan had the needed understanding of how a city government functions as well as knowing how to put together a budget and a sizable rapport with the police and firefighters union's which was huge when it came to resolving the pension issue.  He is certainly not a loon and both he and his family are very good people.  As far as an off the cuff remark geared to a specific audience about an issue that would never be discussed at the level of city business, it was unfortunate and he said as much later on.  Now for me that ends that discussion.  This thread is about Rummell parting ways with Mayor Alvin Brown and I am discussing how the politics of personality and power can make or break out city politically.  The lack of leadership, budget skills, pension reform and the rest is all on Alvin Brown, no one else.

There are a number of reasons for the outcome Stephen, but the opening of the T.U. article begins with the very real impact Rummell had on the election of Alvin Brown.  That is the focus of the article as well as Browns "wimpy" leadership to use Rummells own words.  ;)

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 07:13:09 PM
the article itself that you referenced talks about the Mike Hogan debacle in the first third, and you yourself quoted the Hogan problem in the original post.

As you so often say Stephen...Meh....no mention of debacle either. lol The article said,  "many of whom, like Rummell, were registered Republicans but reluctant to support GOP candidate Mike Hogan's hard-line conservative campaign in the runoff against Brown. 

That is what the article claims and makes that association for Rummell.  The real deal had to do with who was receptive to Rummell's agenda which was attached to his money and support.  The one willing to play by his rules was Alvin Brown and I have up front personal insight into a number of such discussions which happened in more than one political camp.  All things are not at all as they seem or as presented to media.  Fact :)  That is another thing that voters in Jacksonville need to understand about money/influence and what it buys. 

QuoteIt was spring 2011, and Peter Rummell, a powerful Northeast Florida Republican fundraiser, hastily gathered nearly 40 friends in a room at the downtown Hyatt.
Rummell made a surprising announcement: he would personally give $150,000 to help elect Alvin Brown, the underdog Democratic candidate for mayor. Within minutes, his pledge was matched by the other downtown business and civic leaders in attendance — many of whom, like Rummell, were registered Republicans but reluctant to support GOP candidate Mike Hogan's hard-line conservative campaign in the runoff against Brown.

It proved a major milestone in Brown's unlikely victory in a Republican-leaning town, a win that was buoyed by Rummell's political action committee, which ultimately raised $431,356.

Rummell plans to enlist his financial might once again in 2015 — but this time, it won't be for Brown.

In a sharp pivot, he offered a blistering assessment of Brown's first term.

"He does not know how to manage. That's clear," Rummell told the Times-Union in an interview Friday. "He has no courage ... He's wimped out. He's deferred to City Council. It's embarrassing the way he's handled himself."

Rummell — a former Disney and St. Joe Co. executive and a driving force behind Jacksonville's highly touted One Spark festival — is throwing his support behind Florida GOP Chairman Lenny Curry.

Curry, in a statement to the Times-Union, was coy about whether he plans to run but said Rummell's support was encouraging.

"Peter is a man who has made an unparalleled commitment to seeing Jacksonville achieve great things. His support and confidence in my abilities as a leader are humbling," he said. "I look forward to soon sharing my vision for how I can serve our community."

With Rummell's public defection, Brown may have to look beyond Jacksonville's usual suspects for financial support, while Curry could stand to benefit from Rummell's influence.

"If you can find one person or a few people to write really big checks, that changes the game," said University of North Florida political science professor Matt Corrigan. "Are there people willing to write checks to beat this incumbent? That's the question right now. If you're going to have a chance to knock off a candidate who has political skills, you have to be unified and you have to have money."

David Beattie, a senior adviser for the mayor's re-election campaign, said Rummell's role in 2011 was important but that Brown is "building the campaign to win in the coming election, not the campaign that existed four years ago." He also said Brown is reaching out for support across the political spectrum.

"The mayor ran a bipartisan campaign," he said. "He's working to govern the same way."

City Councilman Bill Bishop and Omega Allen, both Republicans, and Tiffany Wingo, a member of the Independence Party of Florida, have filed to for mayor. Duval County Property Appraiser Jim Overton said earlier this month he won't run for Jacksonville mayor as he had planned, having found less financial support than expected.

Beattie said Brown is focused on running the city and will not comment on campaign activity until after the November elections.

BROWN'S STRENGTH

With about a year until the March 24 first election, the mayor remains a formidable and politically skillful incumbent, Corrigan said.

"The mayor is an excellent campaigner," he said.

And a big-name donor already sits in Brown's corner: Jaguars owner Shad Khan, who gave $50,000 to a political action committee supporting the mayor's re-election. Khan's donation was a "very important moment for Brown's campaign" because it shows the mayor has scored the backing of a deep-pocketed supporter, Corrigan said.

Khan's support hasn't ended there. He co-hosted a fundraiser last week at EverBank Field for Taking Jacksonville to the Next Level, the political action committee supporting Brown's re-election.

Brown's campaign has directly raised $383,967 and another $393,907 in the political action committee, according to the latest financial contribution filings. That far exceeds the some $165,000 Brown had in 2011 before making the runoff against Hogan — and prior to winning support from Rummell and other GOP backers.

The mayor will also have strong backing from the Florida Democratic Party, which considers Brown a rising Democratic leader.

And Brown enjoys name recognition and a solid approval rating, though it has slipped over the course of the last year. A University of North Florida public opinion poll of 422 Duval County registered voters released in February showed Brown with a 59 percent approval rating.

The same poll showed Brown leading Curry in a potential match up 45 percent to 25 percent.

Beattie said Rummell is an important community leader but that Brown has support from other significant downtown figures. Indeed, some business leaders see Brown as a mayor tackling long-neglected and difficult challenges, like pension reform.

"He's what this city needs," said Tony Sleiman, owner of The Jacksonville Landing.

Sleiman was a "100 percent" supporter of Hogan in the 2011 election but in the time since has been impressed with Brown's efforts. Despite his support for Hogan, Sleiman said Brown called him after the election to reiterate his support for revitalizing downtown.

"I have never gotten a call like that from someone I was trying to beat," he said. "That shows the character of that man."

Sleiman and Brown both support a plan to tear down Landing and construct a "world-class" development in its place.

BREAKING WITH BROWN

Rummell said a number of episodes shook his faith in Brown's leadership.

■ He was highly critical of the way Brown handled the city's budget last year, saying it showed the mayor "is just not brave."

Brown's proposed budget would have made $61 million in service cuts while avoiding a tax rate increase, but it was criticized by council members because it was projected to cause police layoffs and closing of fire stations, as well as shuttering several libraries and community centers and taking a number of fire engines out of use at stations that remained open.

Brown had hoped the council would approve a pension-change deal that would have lowered the city's retirement costs about $45 million in 2014, but the package was rejected.

The council raised the property tax to prevent the cuts, and Brown allowed the amended budget to become law without his signature. Brown responded to the budget by praising the council's "hard work" but reiterating his opposition against tax increases — a campaign promise he made in 2011.

■ Rummell called the mayor's proposal to enlist JEA's financial muscle to help solve the city's pension woes a "pipe dream." He supported the recent recommendation from a Jacksonville pension task force, which Brown created, to raise taxes to help pay down the city's unfunded pension liability. In keeping with his no-new-taxes campaign pledge, Brown has repeatedly reiterated his opposition to a tax increase.

Brown and his administration have repeatedly defended the JEA proposal — which calls for the utility to contribute $560 million to the city over 14 years — saying JEA has the financial flexibility, coupled with cost-savings measures the mayor is willing to identify, to afford the idea without raising utility rates. Rummell and others disagree.

■ In 2012, the City Council defeated a measure to expand Jacksonville's human rights ordinances to cover protection from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. During the debate, Brown took no public position and repeatedly refused to say whether he would have ultimately signed or vetoed the bill had it passed. That position came under fire from people on both sides of the debate. Rummell, who supports the human rights ordinance, called the mayor's silence on it "embarrassing."

"We just cannot afford four more years of that," he said. "I am convinced we need to do something. I'll help (Curry) raise what it takes."

Nate Monroe: (904) 359-4289

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 07:17:30 PM
And he was just as terrible when he was on Council.  He tried to completely defund the arts in Jacksonville in order to prevent, you know....the gays from recruiting.

And he was one of the only votes against historic districts.

Just not very reflective of the future.

The future in the last elections cycle turned on the ability to lead a city and resolve the most important financial decisions facing us.  Art, while I dearly love and support it was not one of those issues. :)

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 07:31:21 PM
well one thing is certain, his support for Kim Scott is going to cost him.  And the whole HRO thing is going to be a serious pain in his ass.  Lots of hopeful young gay people worked very hard for him because they didnt want to face the prospect of tea party Hogan (who was actually from First Baptist, btw)

Those who know me, know that politics is my realm and particularly local politics.  The Kim Scott thing will be an issue if she can be fully exposed for her actions in Browns final term.  Unless that happens Kim Scott is not on the radar of most of Jacksonville or it's voters.  What is hurting Brown is the fact that he cannot lead and has been completely unable to not only take the city to that magical "other level" but more importantly to do what he promised from backing the GLBT community to pension reform.  He has caused a bigger rift between the city and police and firefighters unions than existed before and perhaps more importantly is not well liked by many in the Black community who also see him as a "wimp and sellout" when it comes to issues in the Black community.

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 07:33:49 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 26, 2014, 07:32:05 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 07:17:30 PM
And he was just as terrible when he was on Council.  He tried to completely defund the arts in Jacksonville in order to prevent, you know....the gays from recruiting.

And he was one of the only votes against historic districts.

Just not very reflective of the future.

The future in the last elections cycle turned on the ability to lead a city and resolve the most important financial decisions facing us.  Art, while I dearly love and support it was not one of those issues. :)

The election was decided by 1600  votes Diane.  How many of Jville's cultural community, facing cuts under Peyton and promises of cuts under Hogan went out and voted?  In this town especially, thats a pretty big group of likely voters.  They have the means, the education and the motivation to vote.

lol.  Sometimes I think you miss the obvious here and there.  The comment was about Hogan's mindset, not about arts funding in the 90s.

Too right wing, too anti government.

The city dodged a bullet.

To your view the city dodged a bullet to my view and the views of many others we took a direct hit and surprisingly most will fail to understand that until the ugly financial impact of Brown in office shows itself a few short years down the line.  On the inside of GOP leadership it is understood that they failed to close the deal on the last election and that is the reason for the small disparity in the votes.

I am guessing that most here did not have the lengthy conversations with Mike that I did, but I can tell you this much and that was there is no real Tea Party in Jacksonville.  It is really non existent but the influence was really played up in the media.  The degree to which the hard line republican vote was courted had to do with the campaign strategy adopted by the hired campaign experts and strategists.  They had not planned on seeing the shift to brown nor did they completely understand the playing field at the time which they should have.  Audreys presence and support in the race should have made that abundantly clear.  It was a miss on the part of the GOP and the campaign staff.

Although it would have been ... Mayoral ... if Brown had publicly stated a position on the HRO when it was before Council, I think we can be pretty darn sure where Hogan would have been on the issue.  Brown (disingenuously it turns out) expressed, support for "equality" during the campaign.  That was enough to prompt members of the LGBT community to vote Brown, after having been disappointed at Aubrey's failure to make it to the final round.  As stephendare said, the margin was only 1600 votes, it doesn't take many folks from various communities - the arts, LGBT, liberals, business republicans (as opposed to Tea Party Republicans) - to tip the balance.

I supported Brown - after Audrey lost - and cannot disagree with anything Rummel said (except for the Lenny Curry part).

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 07:41:37 PM
well, i think we can match credentials there, Diane.

I actually called the outcome of the Brown election precinct by precinct by the night of the vote casting.

I think you were at Hogan's HQ when Sleiman announced that the race was all but over with Hogan as the victor. ;)

You did call the outcome correctly and as I just said there were plenty of reasons for the outcome.  :)  But I did point out long ago that Brown was without the needed skills at all levels to "lead" this city forward and deal with our most pressing issues which turn on our financial status now and down the line.  In the end Stephen, whether you or others want to hear it, I know the day and time the race changed course and it was in a very small window before the election and had to do with what candidate was willing to adopt the agenda of a certain group of business men and what candidate would not agree to that agenda over their own.  That was and is the bottom line of how this election turned. 

Quote from: Charles Hunter on April 26, 2014, 07:50:14 PM
Although it would have been ... Mayoral ... if Brown had publicly stated a position on the HRO when it was before Council, I think we can be pretty darn sure where Hogan would have been on the issue.  Brown (disingenuously it turns out) expressed, support for "equality" during the campaign.  That was enough to prompt members of the LGBT community to vote Brown, after having been disappointed at Aubrey's failure to make it to the final round.  As stephendare said, the margin was only 1600 votes, it doesn't take many folks from various communities - the arts, LGBT, liberals, business republicans (as opposed to Tea Party Republicans) - to tip the balance.

I supported Brown - after Audrey lost - and cannot disagree with anything Rummel said (except for the Lenny Curry part).

You may have been pretty darn sure Charles, but you would have also been wrong.  I spoke at length several times to Mike about it and our GLBT community which he did support as an individual and leader, in spite of that being outside of the sentiment of others in his party and church. Brown infact did exactly what folks feared Hogan would do and their fear was ill placed  People made many judgements about a man based upon gossip and suppositions in the case of both Brown and Hogan.  Many were quite frankly not at all accurate.

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 07:44:00 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 26, 2014, 07:38:41 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 07:31:21 PM
well one thing is certain, his support for Kim Scott is going to cost him.  And the whole HRO thing is going to be a serious pain in his ass.  Lots of hopeful young gay people worked very hard for him because they didnt want to face the prospect of tea party Hogan (who was actually from First Baptist, btw)

Those who know me, know that politics is my realm and particularly local politics.  The Kim Scott thing will be an issue if she can be fully exposed for her actions in Browns final term.  Unless that happens Kim Scott is not on the radar of most of Jacksonville or it's voters.  What is hurting Brown is the fact that he cannot lead and has been completely unable to not only take the city to that magical "other level" but more importantly to do what he promised from backing the GLBT community to pension reform.  He has caused a bigger rift between the city and police and firefighters unions than existed before and perhaps more importantly is not well liked by many in the Black community who also see him as a "wimp and sellout" when it comes to issues in the Black community.

this is the problem for Brown.  Most of the children who Kim Scott repeatedly exposed to asbestos were young african american children in neighborhoods that went for Brown.  Coming so soon on the heels of the Brown's dump soil replacement, this is going to hurt him in an area that he needs rock solid support in to win.

This is an issue that any good opponent to Brown will bring up during the race for Mayor.  Right now it is not on most folks radar, inspite the intense efforts of the good folks in Springfield who have exposed Scott but who is being protected by not only Brown but specific members of council.  Politics in Jacksonville is an ugly business much of the time.

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 08:00:26 PM
Well now the challenge is to get a qualified candidate, I would say.

There was a lot of reluctance for people to run against him because of the early poll that showed such 'support', but just being out in the community, I called that as very very soft support.

Thats been chiseled away, so perhaps a few more good candidates will step forward.

I literally do not have an opinion of Lenny Curry, but he seems to be the guy that everyone has been prepping for the past few months.

A few of the old guys don't really like that, but Brown hasnt really done anything to build bridges with them either.

I think this race is anyone's contest at this point, and Rummel's announcement is going to make that more pronounced.

Here is where the candidate situation stands right now.  Political strategists have know for some time now that Brown is completely vulnerable in the upcoming election.  There was a sentiment directing things for some time that embraced letting Brown move ahead with no real challenger because he was of no consequence to their influence.  However, that idea has become less and less popular in the GOP community as they have realized just how weak he is and that their influence on him has been compromised as Brown himself really believes he knows what he is doing and is supported in that fantasy by his administration. In the real world, the big players don't take Brown seriously and Rick Scott has been using him as a prop. As Brown's popularity dropped we saw individuals like Overton and Guilliford step forward and talk about running for the office.  Bill Bishop made his own choice to enter the race but he was not "ordained" by the local Republican establishment as their candidate. He is currently working on getting the needed funding for his run for office.  For a short while he stood to become that GOP candidate by default. 

What has happened in the past few weeks is that those Republican backers who supported Brown now know he is an utter failure and that it is unwise to simply let him continue to damage the city with his inability to lead and take care of the big issues.  Among the names floated for Mayor and more recently talked about has been Lenny Curry but he has not as yet himself said he is a candidate for Mayor.  There is a reason for that.  The GOP knows they have a real challenge ahead to keep Rick Scott in office.  Agenda wise, doing that is their top priority and Lenny Curry is an important player in that regard.  In order to pull him to run for mayor, they need to decide who can replace him at this stage of the game.  In the GOP he is a known and respected entity.  Peter Rummell publicly declaring his support of Curry today was a message to Curry that the movers and shakers of Jacksonville think he is the guy to take down Brown and they are prepared to support him.  So a major card was lain on the table today.  Now lets see if it is enough to get Curry into the race.  Lenny is a good man and a good person.  He is also utterly conservative so that should be a factor in the minds of liberals when they vote.  The Dem's are going to stick with Brown regardless.  There will be no other serious Dem candidate. 

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 08:01:16 PM
I asked Hogan point blank, Diane. And he said he would veto any ordinance like it, despite the gay children of some of his biggest supporters.

He may have told you that Stephen, but that was not my conversation. In the end Alvin bailed on the GLBT community to the point that he forced Gaffney's change in vote on the legislation that until that moment was poised to pass.  So the who issue is frankly mute and past history. 

How about finding out who the hay Lenny Curry is instead of this bickering about a past election.  Seems obvious at this point that Curry is who the Republicans will be getting behind.  What makes him qualified to be mayor?  Where does he stand on any issues? 

Right now Lenny has not said if he is actually going to run, which is why Rummell made the very public statement that he would support Curry in the same article that he lists all of Browns shortcomings.  That is the flag waving that says Curry would get the needed financial support to run.  Rummell threw the gauntlet down and is waiting to see if Lenny picks it up.  As he is currently in GOP leadership for the state, he would get the needed funds and media to take Brown out of office.  We can't possibly know what his platform might be because he is not announced but it is pretty fair to assume that it would embrace much of the GOP viewpoint of government and governing.

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 08:32:40 PM
Well whatever that means.  Jvilles republicans are some of the most independent and generally reasonable republicans left in the country.

Is he a Rick Scott Republican or a John Delaney Republican?

I honestly don't know which he is more like.  Obviously he supports Rick Scott. That is a known fact.  As a leader or mayor, I kind of imagine him more Delaney than Scott.  :)  As a person, I really like Lenny.  If he does get in the race I would want to know  what he would do about the issue of pensions and our troubled budget situation. In the changing face of the Republican party I would also like to know his feelings on the GLBT issue as well.  We generally know the Republican stance of taxes, but we also know that when money is needed a clever Republican will find a way to get it like Peyton did by calling it fees. 

Of course I would personally like to see a woman in the office of Mayor and the one I think could do it would be Lori Boyer but she has really shown no interest in the race.  I believe if Moran were to stand off with Brown again, she could possibly win if the GOP does not get behind Bishop or if Curry does not enter the race.  A lot of if's ands or but's remain.

I'm just going to drop some notes into this conversation...

Mayor Brown's campaign manager and field staff met with leaders of the LGBT community quickly after the First Election in 2011 (on March 26, 2011).  There wasn't some question in our minds after that meeting as to which direction a Mayor Brown would go on the HRO issue: we left that meeting assured that as Mayor, Alvin Brown would have our back if we had his in the General Election.  So we contributed, we walked, we phone banked, and celebrated the victory.  I don't know if we had a "campaign in poetry, govern in prose" situation, but the tone and the tune changed in a hurry after the swearing in.

Back when we were putting the first HRO push together, prior to the election even, we reached out to Lenny Curry in his capacity as the head of the Duval REC.  I wouldn't have characterized Mr. Curry as a supporter of the HRO at that time, but neither was he a detractor.  A lot of people have moved on the issue since the 2010-2011 timeframe.  Most have moved our way; some have moved the other way.  Considering Mr. Rummell's influence and backing in favor of the HRO in 2012, it's hard to imagine him now offering a potential candidate who would depart from the Civic Council and Chamber's position on the issue.  But who knows?  This is among the many questions people will have for Mr. Curry as he considers his options and we consider ours.

I hope Lenny Curry is a John Delaney Republican and not a Mike Hogan Republican.  But I've learned after too many years of this that hopes - and even some nice words - don't account for much.  I need to see something before I'll believe in it.

QuoteJimmy:
I hope Lenny Curry is a John Delaney Republican and not a Mike Hogan Republican.  But I've learned after too many years of this that hopes - and even some nice words - don't account for much.  I need to see something before I'll believe in it.

This is an unhappy truth which is why voters need to look beyond charisma and promises and investigate the past stances, work, public involvement etc of those running for local office whether it be Mayor or council.  I will give some info to folks going forward on some of the candidates that I know the most about and I can imagine the opinions of the candidates will be all over the place regardless of some facts.  As the races stand now, this very day, there are only three or four races that I see with candidates that have the understanding and concern to govern for "all" of the people. The others are huge question marks.  I hope we get more good candidates and soon so that we can begin our due diligence.

Quote from: Kay on April 26, 2014, 08:22:47 PM
How about finding out who the hay Lenny Curry is instead of this bickering about a past election.  Seems obvious at this point that Curry is who the Republicans will be getting behind.  What makes him qualified to be mayor? 

absolutely nothing

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 26, 2014, 10:46:38 PM

Quote from: Kay on April 26, 2014, 08:22:47 PM
How about finding out who the hay Lenny Curry is instead of this bickering about a past election.  Seems obvious at this point that Curry is who the Republicans will be getting behind.  What makes him qualified to be mayor? 

absolutely nothing

Is this comment a result of your in depth knowledge of Mr. Curry and his capabilities or simply an opinion?  Honest question. 

I'll carry the tennis ball for a while here.

Aside from the Brown and Hogan debate, what makes Curry Mayoral material, in Jacksonville? What positions has he held locally that call him into being a qualified candidate? Seems to me the last "outsider" came in from DC, pissed off the city morale, leaders and is now on the 4th floor of 117 West Duval Street in the catbird's seat.

I don't see Curry coming in and able to lead, we are a big small town, and you cannot come in and think you can run Jacksonville like you think you can run Tampa or Miami or Orlando. We're different and for good reason. But.....after what Brown did and said in the last election, it is painfully obvious that ANY candidate will say ANYTHING to get elected.

^Well, in all fairness, in response to the "you think you can run the city etc" comment,  Lenny himself hasn't said anything about it one way or the other. We don't know what he is thinking but we do know he is being encouraged to run for the seat. Some local players both within the GOP and outside of it have had it with Brown and his inability to lead and are looking for a candidate they think can bring in the needed financial support to run. As an elected office holder outside of his GOP post we don't know how Curry might lead, but we do know that he has some very good experience when it comes to what will or will not make for a winning campaign and that like it or not is going to be an important factor in this race. My guess is that request has more to do with Curry being a person of profile in the GOP as opposed to much else at this stage.

The other candidate of note, Bill Bishop has chosen the same campaign strategists that worked for Hogan last time around.  Not sure if that is a good or bad thing depending on what they learned the last time around.

Sometimes we the voters put too much emphasis on the candidates political philosophy and don't place enough on their ability to lead. Great leaders can be flexible, but also able to convince those they lead on the goals they wish to pursue.  Great leaders work to build consensus and aren't afraid to be criticized or work with those that criticize them.

Great leaders aren't afraid to make mistakes and aren't afraid to admit them. Great leaders are also willing to defer credit to their staff when their is credit to be given.

IMHO. More emphasis on the ability to have leadership, less emphasis on the political variances.

I wish to goodness that we could have true nonpartisan unitary municipal elections in Jacksonville. Or, failing that, a true party-primary system. I know it's technically off-topic, but I think we're in the mess we are now because party labels are not serving us in these local elections.

Quote from: Jimmy on April 26, 2014, 11:44:53 PM
I wish to goodness that we could have true nonpartisan unitary municipal elections in Jacksonville. Or, failing that, a true party-primary system. I know it's technically off-topic, but I think we're in the mess we are now because party labels are not serving us in these local elections.

And that is largely because Duval is an important stronghold when it comes to who keeps power in the office of governor which is the real prize.

Diane - Do you think Jacksonville has prospered under Rick Scott's leadership as Governor of the Great State of Florida? I look around me and I cannot really put my finger on much good. What does Jacksonville owe Rick Scott in the upcoming election? He sure as heck owed Jax for helping him get elected. Is the time of the millionaires who claim they can run government like a business gone? Are the Ross Perot's of the world gone for good?

I look at the upcoming Crist/Voldermort election as the lesser of two evils. Reminds me of the Bill Cambell/Marvin Arrington Mayoral race in Atlanta in the 1990s, you knew they were both bad for the city, but you had to choose one of them.

I am not really the person to ask about Rick Scott MTrain.  I do no like him or his politics.  He is unique in that respect.  I usually make it a habit to keep the person and the politics separate issues.  In this case I have not been able to do so.  I can find next to nothing about his time in office that suits me.  That's the true true. 

Diane - I cannot look around me and see that Jacksonville is better for having him as our Governor either. If it were down to Chainsaw Charlie and Voldermort, I may just have to go the Chainsaw route, hurts my conservative side to say it, but these tax cuts that Scott is coming out with are just plain BS, designed to suck in voters who have not seen anything from him in the last 3 years. The state has been on auto-pilot for far too long.

I do wonder what it would have been like with Alex Sink at the helm.....

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 27, 2014, 12:25:13 AM
Diane - I cannot look around me and see that Jacksonville is better for having him as our Governor either. If it were down to Chainsaw Charlie and Voldermort, I may just have to go the Chainsaw route, hurts my conservative side to say it, but these tax cuts that Scott is coming out with are just plain BS, designed to suck in voters who have not seen anything from him in the last 3 years. The state has been on auto-pilot for far too long.

I do wonder what it would have been like with Alex Sink at the helm.....

I hear you!  :)

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 06:59:33 PM

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 26, 2014, 06:28:45 PM
He still made the right call backing Brown over Hogan. We just wish the other choice had been Audrey Moran.

+1

and Hogan was a tea party backed loon who joked about bombing abortion clinics.

Sad part is that there's a good amount of people in the world that probably found it funny.

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 27, 2014, 12:25:13 AM
Diane - I cannot look around me and see that Jacksonville is better for having him as our Governor either. If it were down to Chainsaw Charlie and Voldermort, I may just have to go the Chainsaw route, hurts my conservative side to say it, but these tax cuts that Scott is coming out with are just plain BS, designed to suck in voters who have not seen anything from him in the last 3 years. The state has been on auto-pilot for far too long.

I do wonder what it would have been like with Alex Sink at the helm.....

The state of Florida is not broke nor has it borrowed to the hilt like Illinois and California. He doesn't resonate with any charm or personality but he has kept the fiscal house in order. His weakness is in the way he communicates.

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 08:23:32 PM

Quote from: Kay on April 26, 2014, 08:22:47 PM
How about finding out who the hay Lenny Curry is instead of this bickering about a past election.  Seems obvious at this point that Curry is who the Republicans will be getting behind.  What makes him qualified to be mayor?  Where does he stand on any issues?

any insights?

None.  All I know is the Republican donor base has lined up behind him.  Why?  What do they see in him?  I don't know as I do not know the guy at all.  What I see is a more partisan John Peyton--someone who has no clue about running government.  He has not track record by which to judge him.  That will be three mayors in a row including Brown.  How much more of that can Jacksonville take?  Seems to me this Republican donor class has a lousy track record in both picking candidates and offering solutions.  Remember when the Civic Council recommended tearing down a block of historic structures for a parking garage. 

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 26, 2014, 11:30:13 PM
^Well, in all fairness, in response to the "you think you can run the city etc" comment,  Lenny himself hasn't said anything about it one way or the other. We don't know what he is thinking but we do know he is being encouraged to run for the seat. Some local players both within the GOP and outside of it have had it with Brown and his inability to lead and are looking for a candidate they think can bring in the needed financial support to run. As an elected office holder outside of his GOP post we don't know how Curry might lead, but we do know that he has some very good experience when it comes to what will or will not make for a winning campaign and that like it or not is going to be an important factor in this race. My guess is that request has more to do with Curry being a person of profile in the GOP as opposed to much else at this stage.

The other candidate of note, Bill Bishop has chosen the same campaign strategists that worked for Hogan last time around.  Not sure if that is a good or bad thing depending on what they learned the last time around.

I can almost guarantee you that Curry intends to run for mayor. 

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 26, 2014, 11:30:13 PM
^Well, in all fairness, in response to the "you think you can run the city etc" comment,  Lenny himself hasn't said anything about it one way or the other. We don't know what he is thinking but we do know he is being encouraged to run for the seat. Some local players both within the GOP and outside of it have had it with Brown and his inability to lead and are looking for a candidate they think can bring in the needed financial support to run. As an elected office holder outside of his GOP post we don't know how Curry might lead, but we do know that he has some very good experience when it comes to what will or will not make for a winning campaign and that like it or not is going to be an important factor in this race. My guess is that request has more to do with Curry being a person of profile in the GOP as opposed to much else at this stage.

Apparently he has a good deal of experience on the "will not make a winning campaign"

From the St. Petersblog, that stephendare quoted from earlier

QuoteHere's Curry's record:

As chair of the Duval County Republican Party, Curry saw a Democrat elected mayor of red-meat Jacksonville.

As chair of the Republican Party of Florida, Curry saw Democrat Barack Obama carry the state despite it being a must-win for Mitt Romney, who was leading in statewide polls until the very end.

As chair of the Republican Party of Florida, Curry saw Democrat Bill Nelson easily re-elected after he defeated Connie Mack IV, the last man standing out of a lackluster field of Republican challengers.

As chair of the Republican Party of Florida, Curry saw Democrat Amanda Murphy win the high-profile Special Election for House District 36.

As chair of the Republican Party of Florida, Curry saw Democrat Rick Kriseman unseat the Republican mayor of St. Petersburg, despite 7 in 10 residents polled saying that the city is on the right track.

To Curry's credit, the Republicans still hold the Cabinet and wide majorities in the Florida Legislature, but that has more to do with Curry's predecessors, such as Tom Slade and Al Cardenas, than it does Lenny Curry. In fact, Speaker Designate Steve Crisafulli just had to send out a memo to Florida House incumbents telling them to get their sh*t together because their fundraising is off pace from where it was during the last election cycle. So even the GOP's strength in legislative races could soon be diminished.
http://www.saintpetersblog.com/lenny-currys-abysmal-record-as-chairman-of-the-florida-gop

And to spuwho's comment that leadership ability is more important than political philosophy, that only goes so far.  For example, Scott has significant experience as a leader - masterminding the largest Medicaid fraud, took pretty good leadership skills - but his anti-environment, anti-worker positions are reason enough not to return him to office.  Also, Clay Yarborough is a heck of councilman - responsive to his constituents and does his homework - but his political philosophy makes me glad he is term limited.

It seems naive to keep saying "Curry hasn't declared" - I really don't think someone of Rummel's acumen would put his stamp of approval on some random person who wasn't interested.  I am sure there have been conversations.  There are reasons Curry wouldn't announce yet - as State GOP Chair, he needs to focus on this fall's Governor, Legislative, and Congressional races; and publicly declaring would place all sorts of rules on fund-raising and such.

I get why so many of us are disappointed with Brown's first term but I bet there will be a second so hopefully he gets better at the job.

Quote from: Charles Hunter on April 27, 2014, 08:45:16 AMIt seems naive to keep saying "Curry hasn't declared" - I really don't think someone of Rummel's acumen would put his stamp of approval on some random person who wasn't interested.  I am sure there have been conversations.  There are reasons Curry wouldn't announce yet - as State GOP Chair, he needs to focus on this fall's Governor, Legislative, and Congressional races; and publicly declaring would place all sorts of rules on fund-raising and such.

This is a pretty key point, I think.  However, I'm not sure that you can seriously run for Mayor of Jacksonville if you wait until after the gubernatorial contest to get going.  While it's true most normal people don't pay attention to the city elections until after the first of the year, the money people and others are deep into the state of the race by, well, about this time; a year out. Mayor Brown has attracted a different crop of money people for 2015 and someone serious about running needs to put her or his attention quickly on battling the power of incumbency and a much larger Brown war chest. 

Someone else, I think Diane, made the point above that if Lenny Curry is going to run for Mayor, the RPOF and Scott camp need to replace him, in function if not in form.  I haven't heard much rumbling about that in Jacksonville or Tallahassee.  The crazy thing I have heard in Tallahassee circles is that Charlie Crist is looking closely at Alvin Brown as a potential Lt. Governor running mate.  That would trigger resign-to-run, regardless of the outcome of the gubernatorial contest, and essentially throw the Mayoral race open.  It would also mean the Council President would become Acting Mayor, yikes... 

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 26, 2014, 08:30:46 PM
Right now Lenny has not said if he is actually going to run, which is why Rummell made the very public statement that he would support Curry in the same article that he lists all of Browns shortcomings.  That is the flag waving that says Curry would get the needed financial support to run.  Rummell threw the gauntlet down and is waiting to see if Lenny picks it up.  As he is currently in GOP leadership for the state, he would get the needed funds and media to take Brown out of office.  We can't possibly know what his platform might be because he is not announced but it is pretty fair to assume that it would embrace much of the GOP viewpoint of government and governing.

Curry has been actively campaigning for Mayor for at least six months.  Rummell joined his team along with Rood and Demetree in January.  The article today was designed to elicite the false assumption that there is some sort of groundswell of support for him.

Had Lenny done his job while Chair of the Duval Republican Party and had even a modest turnout program, Brown would never have been elected.  For this and numerous other reasons, local Republican activists were happy to see him go to Tallahassee.

He is not respected here or in Tallahassee and most there will be thrilled to see him embark on what many see as a fools errand.

Quote from: Jimmy on April 27, 2014, 09:03:41 AM
Someone else, I think Diane, made the point above that if Lenny Curry is going to run for Mayor, the RPOF and Scott camp need to replace him, in function if not in form.  I haven't heard much rumbling about that in Jacksonville or Tallahassee.  The crazy thing I have heard in Tallahassee circles is that Charlie Crist is looking closely at Alvin Brown as a potential Lt. Governor running mate.  That would trigger resign-to-run, regardless of the outcome of the gubernatorial contest, and essentially throw the Mayoral race open.  It would also mean the Council President would become Acting Mayor, yikes... 

And just as a reminder, after July 1st, Clay Yarborough will be Council President.

Quote from: Jimmy on April 27, 2014, 09:03:41 AM

Quote from: Charles Hunter on April 27, 2014, 08:45:16 AMIt seems naive to keep saying "Curry hasn't declared" - I really don't think someone of Rummel's acumen would put his stamp of approval on some random person who wasn't interested.  I am sure there have been conversations.  There are reasons Curry wouldn't announce yet - as State GOP Chair, he needs to focus on this fall's Governor, Legislative, and Congressional races; and publicly declaring would place all sorts of rules on fund-raising and such.

Someone else, I think Diane, made the point above that if Lenny Curry is going to run for Mayor, the RPOF and Scott camp need to replace him, in function if not in form.  I haven't heard much rumbling about that in Jacksonville or Tallahassee.

Republicans in Tallahassee and on the state committee have been more than a little excited at the prospect of Curry resigning to run for Mayor and have been talking about this frequently during this year's legislative session.  Most view him as a mistake and are looking forward to the prospect of being able to replace him with someone who can actually do the job.

Quote from: Badfinger on April 27, 2014, 09:31:08 AMRepublicans in Tallahassee and on the state committee have been more than a little excited at the prospect of Curry resigning to run for Mayor and have been talking about this frequently during this year's legislative session.  Most view him as a mistake and are looking forward to the prospect of being able to replace him with someone who can actually do the job.

But would he truly have to resign from his post at the RPOF to run for Mayor?  As long as his duties get staffed out, there's no downside I can think of to keeping the title and turning his attention to Jacksonville.  The RPOF then gets either a "huge win" or, perhaps more likely, can blame the absentee chairman for whatever ill befalls the state party in November.  I believe Governor Scott has a tougher path to re-election than does Mayor Brown, all things considered.

from mtraininjax:

Aside from the Brown and Hogan debate, what makes Curry Mayoral material, in Jacksonville? What positions has he held locally that call him into being a qualified candidate? Seems to me the last "outsider" came in from DC, pissed off the city morale, leaders and is now on the 4th floor of 117 West Duval Street in the catbird's seat.

I don't see Curry coming in and able to lead, we are a big small town, and you cannot come in and think you can run Jacksonville like you think you can run Tampa or Miami or Orlando. We're different and for good reason. But.....after what Brown did and said in the last election, it is painfully obvious that ANY candidate will say ANYTHING to get elected.

Makes sense mtraininjax ..

There can be political maneuvering and money infusion by those with the clout, to place anyone, for any reason, into the mayor's office.  But to be effective ... in order to do well as mayor, the man in office must perceive the major needs of the city, to brush aside machinations focused on his or her political future -- and to concentrate on the present significant objectives as shaped by the most important needs of the city and its citizens.

It has become evident, and I've said this before, Brown so far has behaved like a true and shallow politician -- wavering, without qualities allowing the objective observer to conclude that he has been the effective and strong leader we need so desperately in this city.

Hopefully, we will not endure another mayoral mediocrity via an election process shaped by the selection, influence, and pressure from the powerful and moneyed, who just might not have selected the best in the environment; that is, the candidate who can not only think independently, with genuine concern for, and knowledge about, the realities in our city, and who has the apparently rare qualities of a strong and determined leader, so that real progress in solutions and improvements is forced upon the city.

Quote from: Jimmy on April 27, 2014, 09:41:35 AM

Quote from: Badfinger on April 27, 2014, 09:31:08 AMRepublicans in Tallahassee and on the state committee have been more than a little excited at the prospect of Curry resigning to run for Mayor and have been talking about this frequently during this year's legislative session.  Most view him as a mistake and are looking forward to the prospect of being able to replace him with someone who can actually do the job.

But would he truly have to resign from his post at the RPOF to run for Mayor?  As long as his duties get staffed out, there's no downside I can think of to keeping the title and turning his attention to Jacksonville.  The RPOF then gets either a "huge win" or, perhaps more likely, can blame the absentee chairman for whatever ill befalls the state party in November.  I believe Governor Scott has a tougher path to re-election than does Mayor Brown, all things considered.

It is difficult to believe that Curry would announce to run before the November election if Scott and his team wanted him to stick around and run the party until then.  They know who and what he is and the talk in Tallahassee is that he has been shut out by them since at least Thanksgiving.

What is your source for this "talk in Tallahassee?"

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 11:00:00 AM
What is your source for this "talk in Tallahassee?"

This past Friday it was the two people that I was having lunch with at Andrew's.

Curry might be a good guy, but I'll reserve judgement on him until I learn more.

Now, with regard to Rummell's decision to not back Brown, that's certainly his right, and I don't see anything wrong with him moving away from Brown. My feeling the entire time from the big donors was that the backlog of Brown was less about Brown, and more about Hogan, who to this day I think is completely visionless and would have been a complete disaster for Jacksonville. Remember, this is the guy that was on the 4 side of the 14-4 vote for the Jaguars in 1993.

Now, my personal feeling is that Brown hasn't been half bad for Jacksonville. Now, he doesn't seem to be able to solve this pension thing and his lack of stance on the HRO bothers me, but I'm a very big results guy. In any organization, if things go bad then the leader is always blamed, so it's only fair that he gets credit when good things happen under his watch. Think about where we were in 2011...a lot of good had happened.

Quote from: Badfinger on April 27, 2014, 11:21:39 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 11:00:00 AM
What is your source for this "talk in Tallahassee?"

This past Friday it was the two people that I was having lunch with at Andrew's.

Who?

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 11:51:49 AM

Quote from: Badfinger on April 27, 2014, 11:21:39 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 11:00:00 AM
What is your source for this "talk in Tallahassee?"

This past Friday it was the two people that I was having lunch with at Andrew's.

Who?

Frank and Dean.  Joey and Sammy could not make it.

Quote from: Badfinger on April 27, 2014, 12:05:29 PM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 11:51:49 AM

Quote from: Badfinger on April 27, 2014, 11:21:39 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 11:00:00 AM
What is your source for this "talk in Tallahassee?"

This past Friday it was the two people that I was having lunch with at Andrew's.

Who?

Frank and Dean.  Joey and Sammy could not make it.

Well, if you have some dirt that can be attributed to sources beyond "Badfinger" and his dead friends, I'm sure many around here would be eager to hear it. In the meantime, let me be the first to say that "Baby Blue" rules.

Quote from: Charles Hunter on April 27, 2014, 08:45:16 AM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 26, 2014, 11:30:13 PM
^Well, in all fairness, in response to the "you think you can run the city etc" comment,  Lenny himself hasn't said anything about it one way or the other. We don't know what he is thinking but we do know he is being encouraged to run for the seat. Some local players both within the GOP and outside of it have had it with Brown and his inability to lead and are looking for a candidate they think can bring in the needed financial support to run. As an elected office holder outside of his GOP post we don't know how Curry might lead, but we do know that he has some very good experience when it comes to what will or will not make for a winning campaign and that like it or not is going to be an important factor in this race. My guess is that request has more to do with Curry being a person of profile in the GOP as opposed to much else at this stage.

Apparently he has a good deal of experience on the "will not make a winning campaign"

From the St. Petersblog, that stephendare quoted from earlier

QuoteHere's Curry's record:

As chair of the Duval County Republican Party, Curry saw a Democrat elected mayor of red-meat Jacksonville.

As chair of the Republican Party of Florida, Curry saw Democrat Barack Obama carry the state despite it being a must-win for Mitt Romney, who was leading in statewide polls until the very end.

As chair of the Republican Party of Florida, Curry saw Democrat Bill Nelson easily re-elected after he defeated Connie Mack IV, the last man standing out of a lackluster field of Republican challengers.

As chair of the Republican Party of Florida, Curry saw Democrat Amanda Murphy win the high-profile Special Election for House District 36.

As chair of the Republican Party of Florida, Curry saw Democrat Rick Kriseman unseat the Republican mayor of St. Petersburg, despite 7 in 10 residents polled saying that the city is on the right track.

To Curry's credit, the Republicans still hold the Cabinet and wide majorities in the Florida Legislature, but that has more to do with Curry's predecessors, such as Tom Slade and Al Cardenas, than it does Lenny Curry. In fact, Speaker Designate Steve Crisafulli just had to send out a memo to Florida House incumbents telling them to get their sh*t together because their fundraising is off pace from where it was during the last election cycle. So even the GOP's strength in legislative races could soon be diminished.
http://www.saintpetersblog.com/lenny-currys-abysmal-record-as-chairman-of-the-florida-gop

And to spuwho's comment that leadership ability is more important than political philosophy, that only goes so far.  For example, Scott has significant experience as a leader - masterminding the largest Medicaid fraud, took pretty good leadership skills - but his anti-environment, anti-worker positions are reason enough not to return him to office.  Also, Clay Yarborough is a heck of councilman - responsive to his constituents and does his homework - but his political philosophy makes me glad he is term limited.

It seems naive to keep saying "Curry hasn't declared" - I really don't think someone of Rummel's acumen would put his stamp of approval on some random person who wasn't interested.  I am sure there have been conversations.  There are reasons Curry wouldn't announce yet - as State GOP Chair, he needs to focus on this fall's Governor, Legislative, and Congressional races; and publicly declaring would place all sorts of rules on fund-raising and such.

I don't disagree with much of your commentary with the exception of the statement it is naive to say Curry has not declared.  It's a factual statement even in the face of the indicators and conversations that say he may be running.  :)

Quote from: Steve on April 27, 2014, 11:37:00 AM
Curry might be a good guy, but I'll reserve judgement on him until I learn more.

Now, with regard to Rummell's decision to not back Brown, that's certainly his right, and I don't see anything wrong with him moving away from Brown. My feeling the entire time from the big donors was that the backlog of Brown was less about Brown, and more about Hogan, who to this day I think is completely visionless and would have been a complete disaster for Jacksonville. Remember, this is the guy that was on the 4 side of the 14-4 vote for the Jaguars in 1993.

Now, my personal feeling is that Brown hasn't been half bad for Jacksonville. Now, he doesn't seem to be able to solve this pension thing and his lack of stance on the HRO bothers me, but I'm a very big results guy. In any organization, if things go bad then the leader is always blamed, so it's only fair that he gets credit when good things happen under his watch. Think about where we were in 2011...a lot of good had happened.

A lot of positive things have happened in Jacksonville in the last few years, but mostly in ways a mayor has no real influence over. A real mayor would have carried that momentum much farther than what we're seeing. They also wouldn't have punted on the pension and the port, produced a budget so incompetent that the Council had to take it away from them, and torpedoed the HRO from behind the scenes.

I guess it could be said that Brown's vaguely-positive-but-noncommittal stance on Downtown hasn't actively stifled the grassroots support for revitalization that's been building regardless of who's in City Hall. Credit where credit is due.

QuoteJimmy: Someone else, I think Diane, made the point above that if Lenny Curry is going to run for Mayor, the RPOF and Scott camp need to replace him, in function if not in form.  I haven't heard much rumbling about that in Jacksonville or Tallahassee.  The crazy thing I have heard in Tallahassee circles is that Charlie Crist is looking closely at Alvin Brown as a potential Lt. Governor running mate.  That would trigger resign-to-run, regardless of the outcome of the gubernatorial contest, and essentially throw the Mayoral race open.  It would also mean the Council President would become Acting Mayor, yikes...

Whoa Nellie, I had not heard this.  lol  That would be quite an interesting development in both races to be sure.  As far as nabbing Brown for a Lt. Governor position, Brown sure hasn't missed a photo op with Scott.  lol 

Ah, the world of politics, never a surprise not to be had.  Lenny Curry has sure been taking some heat from the GOP that is no surprise.  This is the same GOP whose big players absolutely hated Scott when he first put his hat in the political ring. This time around they all back him. Politics is fickle that way.  The GOP also has a great record when it comes to "eating" their own, (Dems don't do bad either). People still don't understand that when it comes to top tier politics in general, it is not always about who may be the best leader, but rather about who can win considering the political landscape.  In Jacksonville it is undeniable that politics play a big hand in what is supposed to be the non-partisan position of Mayor.  The top tier understands that it is about branding and holding control in as many states as possible.  Our political system has always been fraught with partisanship, corruption and dysfunction.  That being understood it falls to the voters to make it clear they want real leaders, not party place holders.  The rub is that the candidates who really do listen to the public "after" the elections are over are often underfunded and remain relatively unknown.  Look at the State level for an example.  There is a woman named Nan Rich, a Dem in the race for Governor who many people feel really cares about the state and has a good platform.  She is basically ignored in most major polls because of her funding, low profile etc.  Meaning that great ideas or not, good platform or not, she will not be elected to the office of governor.

Lenny Curry is a good man who some believe has not done a great job for the GOP at the State level.  However, as he has not officially declared, we have yet to hear a platform or a plan.  When and if he becomes a candidate I would like to see if he has a resolve in mind for the Pension problem, as well as his views about everything from a more viable downtown, to the fact that we have the greatest infant mortality rate in the state and in much of the nation as well.  That we have yet to resolve the issues of homelessness,  jail overcrowding etc. etc. etc.  We know what Alvin Brown is about and what he can and cannot give to our city.  So far in my opinion his is a failed term in most respects.  The problem is who can take the office of Mayor and truly lead and lead in the direction most of the citizens of Jacksonville desire?  Remember, this race and the races for council will not turn on the issue of downtown.  This is about the needs and wants of the entire populace which go way beyond funding downtown projects.  :)

Maybe I'm giving Brown too much credit, but let's say Brown is a card in a deck, and let's call him somewhere between and 9 and 10, but below a face card. However, there are a lot more cards below a 9 than above a 10. I don't want another Peyton.

Quote from: Steve on April 27, 2014, 12:56:49 PM
Maybe I'm giving Brown too much credit, but let's say Brown is a card in a deck, and let's call him somewhere between and 9 and 10, but below a face card. However, there are a lot more cards below a 9 than above a 10. I don't want another Peyton.

Nor do I Steve, but I also don't want four more years of non-leadership in a city that struggles to stay alive and relevant in todays world.  I will return to the pension issue which no one wants to comment on save myself in this thread.  The resolution of this issue is huge when it comes to our future finances.  Not having that resolution is hurting us greatly when it comes to our future finances. It will impact everything from the level of basic city services to our dream city funded projects.  We are looking at a huge bond or much higher taxes down the road, which has always been a point of contention in this city.  We have a responsibility to the generations of Jacksonville citizens who will be left to deal with the mess of a nice guy mayor with charisma who did not know how to resolve the big important problems that are facing us down.

I think the pension is not being mentioned right now with regard to the next mayoral race as it potentially could be settled by then. They are entering into negotiations with the Fund in early May. What if somehow it is settled?  Brown getting the credit? Would seem he would get some credit if deserved or not, but if settled somehow that could put him back in office regardless of the other issues as all know it is the most pressing need.  Perhaps that is why Others are not jumping into the race as they know if it somehow gets settled under his watch it will most likely make him very unbeatable.

Quote from: Steve on April 27, 2014, 12:56:49 PM
Maybe I'm giving Brown too much credit, but let's say Brown is a card in a deck, and let's call him somewhere between and 9 and 10, but below a face card. However, there are a lot more cards below a 9 than above a 10. I don't want another Peyton.

You're right about one thing: you're giving Brown too much credit if you think he's a nine or ten card. At least Peyton never submitted a budget so incompetent the Council had to handle it for him, and he supports the HRO. If Tanzler and Austin are kings or queens, Peyton's a number card, but Brown's the joker.

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 12:27:03 PM

Quote from: Badfinger on April 27, 2014, 12:05:29 PM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 11:51:49 AM

Quote from: Badfinger on April 27, 2014, 11:21:39 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 11:00:00 AM
What is your source for this "talk in Tallahassee?"

This past Friday it was the two people that I was having lunch with at Andrew's.

Who?

Frank and Dean.  Joey and Sammy could not make it.

Well, if you have some dirt that can be attributed to sources beyond "Badfinger" and his dead friends, I'm sure many around here would be eager to hear it. In the meantime, let me be the first to say that "Baby Blue" rules.

I don't really traffic in "dirt", just relaying the contents of the type of conversations that have been held for the past several months once Lenny started letting people know that he intended to run.  As to who I have had them with, well that is really only the concern of those who have been a part of them.

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 06:59:33 PM

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 26, 2014, 06:28:45 PM
He still made the right call backing Brown over Hogan.


We just wish the other choice had been Audrey Moran.

+1

and Hogan was a tea party backed loon who joked about bombing abortion clinics.

10/4

Ah,the Power Elite!
Peter once announced the map of Northwest Florida would transform. Luckily,moving a residence 17 feet was easier.Rivertowne,Disney.
Hopefully,political events on the horizon will swirl around and over him,a parting from the Political Way,mostly.

So who is getting a swirly?

QuoteWhat if somehow it is settled?

Pension settled before the next Mayoral Election? Good luck! Brown's past engagements with the City Council do not bode well for anything getting done at the City level. You can't create a 1 billion dollar budget, then drop it in the lap of City Council and say "fix it", and think you will not do it again or bring up issues then when it starts to get tough, not bail out again.

His leadership is the real question, can Jacksonville afford 4 more years of City Council running Jacksonville because the Mayor is too afraid of hard decisions?

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 28, 2014, 07:36:47 AM

QuoteWhat if somehow it is settled?

Pension settled before the next Mayoral Election? Good luck! Brown's past engagements with the City Council do not bode well for anything getting done at the City level. You can't create a 1 billion dollar budget, then drop it in the lap of City Council and say "fix it", and think you will not do it again or bring up issues then when it starts to get tough, not bail out again.

His leadership is the real question, can Jacksonville afford 4 more years of City Council running Jacksonville because the Mayor is too afraid of hard decisions?

Pretty much sums it up.

Quote from: Tacachale on April 27, 2014, 02:35:39 PM

Quote from: Steve on April 27, 2014, 12:56:49 PM
Maybe I'm giving Brown too much credit, but let's say Brown is a card in a deck, and let's call him somewhere between and 9 and 10, but below a face card. However, there are a lot more cards below a 9 than above a 10. I don't want another Peyton.

You're right about one thing: you're giving Brown too much credit if you think he's a nine or ten card. At least Peyton never submitted a budget so incompetent the Council had to handle it for him, and he supports the HRO. If Tanzler and Austin are kings or queens, Peyton's a number card, but Brown's the joker.

I'm not sure I agree with Peyton being higher than Brown. I truly think Peyton was one of the worst mayors we could have possibly had. Let's sum it up:

The Walt Bussells bond fiasco
The "guarantee a profit" deal for Mark Rimmer
The "let's throw a way a medical school and let Daytona have it"
The "Big Ideas" plan
The standing in the way of urban progress

I can go on about his 8 years, and look, I don't like Brown's stance on the HRO, I think he probably (if for no other reason politically) needs to build an entirely new staff on the financial side of the house. I just think how quickly we forget how painful it was to watch Jacksonville in 2003, and think about 2011 and what could have been over the last 8 years.

Looking back, I think that Delaney was the best mayor since consolidation, then Tanzler and Austin (so hard to compare those two), then Godbold and Hazouri (both had their pluses and minuses), then Peyton. I'll reserve Brown's place once his body of work is complete.

Quote from: Know Growth on April 27, 2014, 09:09:49 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 06:59:33 PM

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 26, 2014, 06:28:45 PM
He still made the right call backing Brown over Hogan.


We just wish the other choice had been Audrey Moran.

+1


and Hogan was a tea party backed loon who joked about bombing abortion clinics.

10/4

Ah,the Power Elite!
Peter once announced the map of Northwest Florida would transform. Luckily,moving a residence 17 feet was easier.Rivertowne,Disney.
Hopefully,political events on the horizon will swirl around and over him,a parting from the Political Way,mostly.

^+1000

I suppose if Rummell could go to the Used Mayors Lot and trade Brown in for Curry he would.

So we have a narcissist who loves having his picture taken and possesses no leadership or budgetary skills? Are we talking about our Mayor or the President?

Quote from: Badfinger on April 29, 2014, 09:53:20 AM

Quote from: Know Growth on April 27, 2014, 09:09:49 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 06:59:33 PM

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 26, 2014, 06:28:45 PM
He still made the right call backing Brown over Hogan.


We just wish the other choice had been Audrey Moran.

+1


and Hogan was a tea party backed loon who joked about bombing abortion clinics.

10/4

Ah,the Power Elite!
Peter once announced the map of Northwest Florida would transform. Luckily,moving a residence 17 feet was easier.Rivertowne,Disney.
Hopefully,political events on the horizon will swirl around and over him,a parting from the Political Way,mostly.

^+1000

I suppose if Rummell could go to the Used Mayors Lot and trade Brown in for Curry he would.

+1 lol

Quote from: AuditoreEnterprise on April 29, 2014, 11:08:47 AM

Quote from: Badfinger on April 29, 2014, 09:53:20 AM

Quote from: Know Growth on April 27, 2014, 09:09:49 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 26, 2014, 06:59:33 PM

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 26, 2014, 06:28:45 PM
He still made the right call backing Brown over Hogan.


We just wish the other choice had been Audrey Moran.

+1


and Hogan was a tea party backed loon who joked about bombing abortion clinics.

10/4

Ah,the Power Elite!
Peter once announced the map of Northwest Florida would transform. Luckily,moving a residence 17 feet was easier.Rivertowne,Disney.
Hopefully,political events on the horizon will swirl around and over him,a parting from the Political Way,mostly.

^+1000

I suppose if Rummell could go to the Used Mayors Lot and trade Brown in for Curry he would.

+1 lol

I expect a lot of folks are ready to trade in this lemon.

^Well they are going to have to vote in order to do so.  :) 

And find a respectable challenger. As we know that is pretty much why we have the current lemon.

Quote from: edjax on April 29, 2014, 02:53:33 PM
And find a respectable challenger. As we know that is pretty much why we have the current lemon.

Yes, there is this.  lol  Right now the only serious challenger of record is Bill Bishop whom I like as a person but I have some reservations about as a potential mayor.  I want to see what he has to say etc.  What is sticking in my mind is how slowly the DIA committee moved to get that organization up and sort of running.  Bishop was key in that effort and failed to see any urgency in getting the DIA going.  That was reflected in some of his reported public commentary while the committee dragged its feel.  We are past the days of taking our time. 

A candidate that excites me and gives me hope is not on the ballot at this time. 

I think Lori Boyer should be kidnapped and told she will only be released if she agrees to run for mayor.  Just kidding. Well. Kinda.  ???

Quote from: edjax on April 29, 2014, 03:29:45 PM
I think Lori Boyer should be kidnapped and told she will only be released if she agrees to run for mayor.  Just kidding. Well. Kinda.  ???

She would be my number one choice.  She is solid in her leadership, listens to her constituents, does her due diligence, is open to the ideas of others and the extra plus is that she would make an excellent first female Mayor.  Quite some time ago I had a conversation with her about running for mayor.  She said it wasn't something she was actually considering but did not come out and say that she never would either.  I plan on talking to her again.  :)  Maybe others should speak up as well.

From the "I shit you not" file -- here's the Mayor's fundraising email that went out today.  The Subject Line is: Political Courage.  Perhaps a subtle response to Mr. Rummell?


From: Alvin Brown On Behalf Of Alvin Brown
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 
Subject: Political Courage

When I ran for Mayor in the 2011 campaign, plenty of people counted me out. They would tell me that I did not have the backing of the right people, or enough money to run and win. I knew better though- what matters is having the backing of the people who live and work in Jacksonville every day.

That is just as true today as it was then. I am just as driven to do everything I can to improve our education system, help people get back to work, and work to create a better quality of life for all our citizens.

Together we can continue to take Jacksonville to the next level. Please consider clicking here to donate $5 to my campaign before the deadline on Wednesday at midnight.

Thank you for your support
-Alvin

P.S. The deadline is coming up soon! Please donate $5 to my campaign before then.
TAKING JACKSONVILLE TO THE NEXT LEVEL
Paid for and Approved by Alvin Brown, Democrat for Mayor
3698 St Johns Ave Unit 3
Jacksonville, FL 32205

Lol. Sounds like he may alienate one of his biggest donors thus far in Shad Khan. I mean the statement about he needs the backing of the right people, those that live and work in Jacksonville every day.  Well Mr Khan does not live in Jax and does not work in Jax every day, not even close. So way to stick thou foot in thy mouth once again Mr. mayor. (Yes, lower case m is deserved).

Just a reminder in case nobody saw it. The deadline to donate your $5 to his campaign is Wednesday at midnight.

PS. Please don't forget about that deadline I just told you about. Its Wednesday, midnight. $5 American Cash please.

^City, don't forget to remind them about the deadline. It's Wednesday at midnight. $5.

Happy to know of the deadline.  I will be spending my $5.00 at Bold Bean where the caffeine can actually take me to another level.  :)

One year later, still an interesting read.

Now that Curry has officially declared...

If I vote for Brown, it will be to protest how Curry came to be a candidate and then, how he campaigned.

The Republican establishment could have thrown their support behind a number of undeniably good candidates.

They didn't.

So, do I want a flood of "establishment" Curry supporters to dictate policy (which I think they will) or am I willing to deal with four more years of mediocre leadership?

I'm leaning towards Brown.

Quote from: TheCat on May 06, 2015, 03:58:27 PM
The Republican establishment could have thrown their support behind a number of undeniably good candidates.

They didn't.

So, do I want a flood of "establishment" Curry supporters to dictate policy (which I think they will) or am I willing to deal with four more years of mediocre leadership?

great analysis...every voter needs to consider these points

If Brown was merely mediocre, you may have something there.

^ I think most people in the city see him as average.

I really, really, doubt that.

I don't know-overall average is what I'd say. He does some things really awful though; particularly financial. That's definitely my biggest complaint of his.

How do you fail to send a balanced budget to city council not 1, not 2, not 3.....but 4 years in a row. The man has no idea, after 4 years and people want to give him 4 more so he can use his toes for advanced math?

The more thought I give it, the more unimportant I think it is for the mayor to produce a yearly budget.  It's not going to happen.  Your guy Curry isn't going to be able to do it either, advanced math or not, when every department under you is requesting a larger budget from the previous year and the revenue is still stagnant, if not declining.  Isn't he running on a 'no new taxes' mantra as well?

Which programs are you willing to see cut?   Wouldn't the representatives of each district be more in tune with what's essential and what not?

I may be mistaken, but doesn't the CFO come up with the budget and the CEO only signs off?  Who's the CFO for the city?

Hell, it seems this forum contains a wealth of fiduciary genius based on the sheer quantity of criticism of the budget.   I'm sure the city would put up a plaque in a very prominent place, using the money you saved, if you'd quit being so secretive and just donate your wondrous plan to the city for the benefit of all of us.

well put NRW....

Curry says his #1 priority is restoring the 147 officer positions cut from JSO over the past few years.  That would likely cost more than $15 million.  Where will he find the funding for that given his no new tax pledge?  What other city departments will be cut?