Metro Jacksonville

Peter Rummell is right!

QuoteDowntown Jacksonville looked like a postcard from a revitalized future last week, with thousands of people filling the streets from Wednesday through Sunday evening for One Spark.

Come Monday morning, though, the city center was mostly lifeless again, with little going on besides office workers streaming in and out. For an event that brought 260,000 people Downtown over a five-day period, the lasting impact will be very little, one of the most powerful advocates of revitalization said Tuesday.

"We need to make sure the population doesn't think this is somehow a turning point," Peter Rummell said in an editorial roundtable meeting with the Business Journal. "It's just not."

full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/feature/one-spark-2014/2014/04/rummell-one-spark-is-not-a-turning-point-for.html

yeah I think most on here know this already.

I've been holding my tongue on saying this, out of fearing of sounding cynical,  but with the big multi day events that happen in downtown, there's a sort of temporary carnival atmosphere that I associate to them. Yes One Spark is a great event, as is the Jazz Fest, and the Superbowl we had nearly a decade ago, but when you're in the middle of it you can't help but sense how temporary it  is.

Artwalk does this to a lesser extent, but with less tents the setup feels a little more authentic and less carnival-esque The actual buildings/venues are in use more it seems. (I do miss the old library being used though)

We all want downtown to go from having that temporary lively atmosphere to a sustained bustling core, but the big question is still how and when.

That said, It does seem more alive than ten years ago. At least there's a few more nightlife options, but I know that's not going to be enough for everyone .

Quote"So if we're going to grow, and we're going to have policies that are positive and attract long-term capital, we've got to be able to compete with Charlotte and Indianapolis and Nashville, and they're all at the table."

But not at our table.  Those cities are at the Adult table. We're at the kids table fighting over not eating our veggies and who pulled who's hair. 

I get what he is saying, and I might not fully agree on his solutions, but he has a point.  I like to view One Spark as just that, a spark.  And for any spark to catch fire, you've got to feed it with the right fuel.  Rummell thinks money is that fuel, and to a large part it is.  But smart design and forward thinking ideas are also fuel.  You can't start rubber stamping large parking garages with inadequate space for retail and strip malls with parking in the front, or demolishing buildings for more parking spaces.  You can't be waged in a war with the homeless so much that you're willing to destroy one of the center parks in your downtown.  You can't ignore the connectivity of the surrounding neighborhoods and how they play into downtown, or ignore alternative modes of transportation.  You can't put barriers up for small business to start, and also regulate competition out of the game. 

Those are the kindling needed for the fire to start.  Then you take that One Spark, and you can feed it the oxygen of money. 

I think One Spark, along with Jazz Fest, Art Walk, Florida-Georgia and other downtown events show that if you have it, they will come. Its just a matter of programming the crap out of downtown; opening enough bars and restaurants; and having more cultural events. The more these things happen, the more people will want to either live downtown or in one of the In-Town neighborhoods (which are already hot as is), or will want to relocate their business downtown to be near the action. There's obviously a lot more to downtown revitalization than just programming and events, but it is the one thing that can be done to boost downtown even if the big $ isn't ready just yet.

I would really like the DIA to take a look at permanently closing down a few streets in the downtown core (Hemming Plaza notably) and making the city more walkable, pedestrian friendly, and event friendly. This would be one step towards creating a more permanent festival type atmosphere downtown. It would also make having restaurants, bars, and entertainment type businesses more viable in certain spots.

Downtown has the potential to attract people but it needs to incorporate more than bars and restaurants. Laura Street could/ should be a main strip that draws people from the library, museum and park (Hemming) to the river with the street lined with retail stores that people want to shop at consistently.

When I saw the Barnett building this weekend, I could not help but think about a Banana Republic at being at the corner. It's a store that works in every downtown (and was one of the quality stores in the Landing way back when).

If you want to look at what ails Downtown, look no further than the Landing. Sleiman has all kinds of events daily, weekly, monthly to bring people TO the Landing. He cannot rely on the 3,000 people or so who live downtown, he has to PULL people in from the burbs with events, concerts, you name it.

He has a mini-OneSpark going on everyday. All of his and downtown's issues would be resolved with 15,000 people living downtown. Forget shops and the what-ifs until you get more people living downtown. Vendors will follow and so will shops to serve the people living here, but there cannot be new shops without more people there.

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2014, 03:23:58 PM
If you want to look at what ails Downtown, look no further than the Landing. Sleiman has all kinds of events daily, weekly, monthly to bring people TO the Landing. He cannot rely on the 3,000 people or so who live downtown, he has to PULL people in from the burbs with events, concerts, you name it.

He has a mini-OneSpark going on everyday. All of his and downtown's issues would be resolved with 15,000 people living downtown. Forget shops and the what-ifs until you get more people living downtown. Vendors will follow and so will shops to serve the people living here, but there cannot be new shops without more people there.

not true.  I know many people who live downtown that won't step one foot into the Landing.  The fact is the place is tired and Sleiman has done little to renovate the space, and in fact has made some decisions (Rush Street anyone) that have actually hurt the center's reputation.

Gotta love the melancholy negativity, because Jacksonvillians just love to rebel in being complete buzzkills about EVERY effing thing...Jesus....

^^^Nobody expects for Jax to become Manhattan overnight, so he's just being a buzzkill for the fun of it. The same old 'see I told you' people with little substance....

I am happy to have found, within the last several posts, encouraging opinions, as some tend to approximate some of mine.  There is hope.   ;D

Many are arriving at the opinion that the process of attempting to bring the DT core to a condition approximating that of the '40's and '50s is certainly a complex endeavor, and a very difficult endeavor, else we would have accomplished it by now, after almost thirty years of effort.

What have those supposedly engaging the process of attempting revitalization been doing wrong?  What significant necessities for success have they not perceived?  Have they missed come critical components, without which little or no progress can be made?  What entities or conditions have been the hidden roadblocks to progress?

Stop the presses, Peter Rummell speaks.  He says "One Spark is not a 'turning point' for Downtown Jacksonville.  Well duh! Who knew?  This headline gives me a headache really as does some of the conversation following it which misses the mark completely.  One Spark did what it was supposed to do and did so in grand fashion.  It is the brainchild of Elton Rivas and is meant to be a crowd funding event for entrepreneurs  in the areas of art, innovation, music, science and technology. In two years the event has succeeded beyond anyone's wildest expectations.  It was and is an event for "all" of Jacksonville that was "staged" in our downtown.  It created a positive buzz and excitement about "new ideas" and "financing" for creators to start new enterprises throughout the city and beyond.  Peter Rummell is a man who tagged his wagon to a very successful event and decided to put some money into it.  The same can be said about Shad Khan.  But this event is not about these men or their take on Jacksonville or downtown.  It is about new things, new ideas and a creative spark coming to life in our city.   It was about people, not the downtown core.  People like creator Kyle Willis and his art cards connecting with the people of Jacksonville. (http://i.imgur.com/JQGh2HM.jpg)   It was and is about creating excitement about and "sparking" new enterprises in the above stated categories.  It was about getting our collective "mojo" working in Jacksonville and stirring up excitement and interest.  ONE SPARK WAS A TURNING POINT FOR JACKSONVILLE that happened in the hearts and minds of people which is where all good ideas come from.  (http://i.imgur.com/pXawS8e.jpg)  Rummell making this about brick and mortar projects and downplaying the important changes in perceptions is unfortunate.

^^^Long time no see CC, I totally agree with you! :)

Of course you do.  What Rummell said was absolutely correct, no matter how much you disagree. 

^^^Blah blah blah....

What Rummell said is what guys like him have been saying for a long time and his ideas about money, incentives and the like are still missing the point as is much of the previous conversation.  The changes that need to come in Jacksonville, brick and mortar stuff are going to take a long time and begin at the level of local political leadership and the dysfunction of local government.  Changing who is in office and how they get there in Jacksonville is the key, not incentives.  Until that changes we are going to get overblown courthouses, city owned white elephant parking lots, jumbo trons,  rogue department leadership like that of Kim Scott and guys like Rummell who buy mayors like Alvin Brown who has done nothing of import for our city save hire a full time photographer and give out awards. 

I think the advertising the event gives DT is beneficial.

Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on April 15, 2014, 05:52:46 PM
Of course you do.  What Rummell said was absolutely correct, no matter how much you disagree. 

It would really help if you would simply say your opinion and move along, without beefing with others. You're not gonna change my mind, and vice-versa, so why insist on acting like a troll just because I'm not Mr Negative like you? Now if I'm wrong about a FACT, feel free to correct me, but to think that everyone has to agree with your opinions is insanely childish. You act like I was the only one with that opinion...I'm I a lightning rod of haterism or something? Here's to having opinions in the Free World....

^and that kind of tit for tat is why I haven't posted in a long time.  It really is a disservice to the issues under discussion to have the conversation derailed with personal sparring. imo I had hoped that had changed.

It is so good to see you back CC.  Hell, I was checking the inmate listings at JSO.

But ... focusing on Dt revitalization .... Usually, if a group has before them a difficult problem, they begin to assess what is known about it, and if little is known other than the fact that the attempt as solution has failed, they experiment with different actions ... anything ...  which might give progress toward solution.

Events like Art Walk, the Jazz Festival, and One Spark, and even the food truck initiative -- although perhaps beginning somewhat as experiments, have certainly prepared the core for progress toward revitalization, as they remind outsiders of what exists in the core, and therefore what does not exist, thus giving perhaps hints of potential to those who might have a desire to move into the core as residents, or to those who might have a viable business plan which could survive in the current limited foot traffic in the core.

While progress has been made in initiating events for the DT core -- and the value of these events cannot be underestimated -- there has been a lack of enabling, marketing, and encouragement for new residents, workers, and businesses for the core -- why is this so .... or does it seem to be so?     

I agree totally with mtraininjax when he conveys the importance of increasing the number of residents in the core, as these residents will draw and support new businesses, and add to the momentum toward revitalization.  But we should also attempt, by whatever means, to bring businesses into the core.  Each DT core building or space currently vacant, once filled, will be a solid step toward the goal of revitalization. 

In my opinion the gain in building occupancy is "the" key to measuring progress toward revitalization.  Nothing significant happens until a vacant building is filled, until another building is "occupied".   

As Stephen says, and most certainly realize, the success of One Spark should not allow us to declare victory regarding a big push toward sustained vibrancy ..... far from it.  We must recognize One Spark for what it is, an exciting event drawing a huge temporary population into the DT core -- an event offering an environment where new and exciting ideas can be shown, and some matched to funding -- an event which hopefully can be repeated and honed to become much greater than what we can imagine in this early stage.

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 15, 2014, 06:03:48 PM
I think the advertising the event gives DT is beneficial.

It's a marketing bonanza.  This event has done wonderful things for Jacksonville, the most important to my eye is showing the world that we have creative/edgy and inspiring things happening in Jacksonville.  The big bonus is that that appeal goes across the boundaries of race, age and wealth.  Doesn't get much better than that when it comes to "sparking" good things.  :)

Quotenot true.  I know many people who live downtown that won't step one foot into the Landing.  The fact is the place is tired and Sleiman has done little to renovate the space, and in fact has made some decisions (Rush Street anyone) that have actually hurt the center's reputation.

The place is tired because he can't get high end merchants in the place because there are not enough people to support a higher end shop. What he has there is par for the people who visit the landing and are there on a regular basis. Maverick's, Hooters, Chicago Pizza, they are there and succeed because of the people who go there.

Add more people downtown who demand better, you get better.  He is a great master at getting events down there and he sells what people demand in and around the Landing. Like it or not, its the downtown you have now, until you build and add more residents. It does get supported without the "people" you speak of....

Quoteguys like Rummell who buy mayors like Alvin Brown who has done nothing of import for our city save hire a full time photographer and give out awards.

+10000000

Thanks Ron.  One Spark was victorious in meeting their agenda, which was crowd funding new entrepreneurs in their four target categories.  Why anyone thinks that the success of this event should be a measure for the continued revitalization for downtown is a mystery really.  It was a second time event that did a world of good for our feeling towards our own community. I can only imagine that this idea of an "event" in downtown translating to a lasting economic change is leftovers from the meme that the Super Bowl would change downtown.  It didn't and the real and lasting changes will come in increments and be born by organic change at the level of leadership, Jacksonville self image and how excited we remain about our future. 

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2014, 06:37:00 PM

Quoteguys like Rummell who buy mayors like Alvin Brown who has done nothing of import for our city save hire a full time photographer and give out awards.

+10000000

Are you serious?

Quote from: Intuition Ale Works on April 15, 2014, 06:52:21 PM

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2014, 06:37:00 PM

Quoteguys like Rummell who buy mayors like Alvin Brown who has done nothing of import for our city save hire a full time photographer and give out awards.

+10000000

Are you serious?

Not answering here for MTrain, but the quote above he responded to was mainly about money buying influence via political office and how that can impact the type of leadership we have. In this case mayor Alvin Brown who is all show but completely lacking in the leadership necessary to take our city forward. imo  As far as One Spark goes, I am sure Rummells money had a positive impact, but to my view does not make him the go to guy on the future of Downtown Jacksonville.  He is one of the old guard and we see how far we have or have not progressed under that old guard.

Thread got worthless real quick...

Quote from: CityLife on April 15, 2014, 07:30:09 PM
Thread got worthless real quick...

Or real depending upon personal perspective. What was not worthless is all of the good that "One Spark" did for Jacksonville, this year and last.

I'm all about the positive One Spark vibes and constructive suggestions, but there's no need for this to digress into a political discussion about Mayor Brown. Carry on...

Quote from: CityLife on April 15, 2014, 08:04:30 PM
I'm all about the positive One Spark vibes and constructive suggestions, but there's no need for this to digress into a political discussion about Mayor Brown. Carry on...

I would agree CL.  Peter Rummell's commentary did nothing to give added luster and spark to this wonderful event. Perhaps Peter wanted to further his own agenda for downtown but "One Spark" was not about becoming the catalyst for downtown development. Part of his efforts in downtown per that agenda was funding Mayor Alvin Brown in order to get the DIA up and running. So Alvin is part of Peters vision and that vision has nothing to do with One Spark which was about crowd funding to support entrepreneurs in the areas of art, innovation, music, science and technology and the festival both met and exceeded all expectations. Rummell now tying the event to downtown development two days after it's great success is self serving and political. imo  What I am trying to bring to light is the fact that the changes we need and want in Jacksonville should never be tied to a public event but rather to who we put in public office and how our desires are or are not met at that level.  It all stems from that. 

I remember when Epic (Wayne Wood was involved) morphed into One Spark. I actually sat in one of the early discussions about the crowdsource funding as an alternative to what was more like Grand Rapids' ArtPrize in the beginning. I'm getting older now so my mind may be a bit fuzzy but from what I recall, Rummell was a major reason One Spark was able to get off the ground.

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2014, 06:37:00 PM

Quoteguys like Rummell who buy mayors like Alvin Brown who has done nothing of import for our city save hire a full time photographer and give out awards.

+10000000

Without Pete Rummell, One Spark would have never have happened.

You are a fool for thinking otherwise.

The fact that there is some sort of negative connotation after such an amazing week is at best, shameful.

Without Peter Rummell's support and Money, OneSpark would not have happened, period.  He put up $300,000 of his own money to fund the initial OneSpark; that is undeniable.  To try and paint his initiative as self serving is totally disingenuous, if not just plain snarky.

As to his and the Civic council's support of Alvin Brown in the last mayoral election, remember Brown was running against another First Baptist politician that had NO vision of the future of Jacksonville and was totally unqualified for the office.  Brown has been a major disappointment to many of us that voted for him and we will not make the same mistake twice.

I disagree with Rummell as to the impact of OneSpark on downtown Jacksonville.  OneSpark emphatically demonstrated that if you give the people some compelling reason to come downtown, they will respond.  If enough people visit downtown often enough, businesses will make money...............and more businesses will open to serve and more people will consider downtown as a suitable place to live.  There was a time, when Jake Godbold and Mike Tolbert were spearheading events downtown, that there was a "buzz" about good things happening downtown.  Building government offices and non-profits around the centerpiece of downtown, Hemming Park, has not helped.  There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be in the central district after dark, save for once a month for Art Walk.

I personally want to thank Peter Rummell for what he has caused to happen.  He is truly a visionary and we are luck y to have him in our community.

^^so I guess you mean fools, not fool since he was just agreeing with Cat.

I think the mind of Elton was the reason "One Spark" got off the ground. Peter is one person of many who supported this event financially and it's beginnings, that may be true, but it does not mean he should use it to promote his political agenda for downtown.  Don't think it's about politics?  It is.  His immediate words were about incentives etc for downtown which tie to his hopes for the DIA. etc. etc. etc.   All of that turns on politics.  Just pointing out the facts.  I am really over seeing the "Old Guard" or their money as the saviors of this city and the ones driving the positive changes here.  They are not.  It is the collective effort of the many that will make or break this city.  What bothers me is when we allow money folks to play toe great of an interest in our futures with their agendas, many of which are geared around the use of tax dollars.  I am not dismissing what they give or do but it does not outshine the hard work of something like One Spark.  It's a cog in the wheel and so is Peter Rummell.  He is not however the cog on which downtown will turn.

Mike, I would agree negative connotations is a lousy way to respond to the wonder of One Spark and to my view that is precisely what Rummell has done. 

This following to my view is the organic growth that a festival like "One Spark" creates and it is where the true shift comes.  It's not always the big things or the big money.  Now Wayne Wood is a font of creative ideas and who makes them happen.  No argument on that.  But to my eye the grass roots of folks like SOS will do more to help in their own way with a heck of a lot less applause and money. 

(http://i.imgur.com/DCVr1xz.jpg)

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 15, 2014, 08:56:52 PM
I think the mind of Elton was the reason "One Spark" got off the ground.

Elton is a great guy but personally remembering the start of things a few years back, I'm pretty sure it was a group effort of several creative and innovative individuals who's common goal was to see Jax succeed and become a better place.  With that said, I can wait for the next One Spark and in general, I look forward to seeing what residents in our community can achieve when simply given a chance to utilize their skills, smarts, passion and drive.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 15, 2014, 09:02:41 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 15, 2014, 08:56:52 PM
I think the mind of Elton was the reason "One Spark" got off the ground.

Elton is a great guy but personally remembering the start of things a few years back, I'm pretty sure it was a group effort of several creative and innovative individuals who's common goal was to see Jax succeed and become a better place.  With that said, I can wait for the next One Spark and in general, I look forward to seeing what residents in our community can achieve when simply given a chance to utilize their skills, smarts, passion and drive.

It was a group effort to my view Ennis.  It was also a creative endeavor that met and exceeded it's goals.  I think it is unfortunate that Rummell would then envoke One Spark as an example of something that has little lasting power with regard to downtown development when that is not what the event was about. 

When I travel the festival that Jacksonville is known for is The Florida Georgia game (the worlds largest outdoor cocktail party". I was in Chicago this week and it came up.  I think one spark could be like this to a degree unique and successful it may be another "known" entity about Jax outside of Jax. We will see either way. I just hope next year I will finally be in town for it.

Quote from: Glenn OSteen on April 15, 2014, 08:54:44 PM
Without Peter Rummell's support and Money, OneSpark would not have happened, period.  He put up $300,000 of his own money to fund the initial OneSpark; that is undeniable.  To try and paint his initiative as self serving is totally disingenuous, if not just plain snarky.

As to his and the Civic council's support of Alvin Brown in the last mayoral election, remember Brown was running against another First Baptist politician that had NO vision of the future of Jacksonville and was totally unqualified for the office.  Brown has been a major disappointment to many of us that voted for him and we will not make the same mistake twice.

I disagree with Rummell as to the impact of OneSpark on downtown Jacksonville.  OneSpark emphatically demonstrated that if you give the people some compelling reason to come downtown, they will respond.  If enough people visit downtown often enough, businesses will make money...............and more businesses will open to serve and more people will consider downtown as a suitable place to live.  There was a time, when Jake Godbold and Mike Tolbert were spearheading events downtown, that there was a "buzz" about good things happening downtown.  Building government offices and non-profits around the centerpiece of downtown, Hemming Park, has not helped.  There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be in the central district after dark, save for once a month for Art Walk.

I personally want to thank Peter Rummell for what he has caused to happen.  He is truly a visionary and we are luck y to have him in our community.

Glenn, I agree with the later part of your statement.  Challenging Rummell's views however and questioning his motivation is not "snark".  It is the reality of what he chose to do after the One Spark event, which was make it fodder for his personal downtown agenda.  Now if you are going to talk politics, you need to know your facts.  There was more than one good candidate in that race.  Rummell chose to back one and he backed the one he could most easily influence and win over to his personal agenda.  That's the way politics are played.  For him it was not about the best candidate, it was about influence plain and simple.

Quote from: edjax on April 15, 2014, 08:56:11 PM
^^so I guess you mean fools, not fool since he was just agreeing with Cat.

And again for clarification as I stated earlier.  My remark was about Rummell's financial expenditure used get Alvin Brown into office. He got what he wanted but perhaps not what was best for all of Jacksonville. It was not about his funding of One Spark.  Let's be clear on that. 

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It sounds like what it boils down to is Rummell is looking for a vehicle to bring forth downtown revitalization, and perhaps in the long term look for some sort of profit.  I can relate.

However, Rummell sees the bigger picture, as well, but doesn't understand, live, or breathe it.  The bigger picture is that an event like OneSpark, regardless of where it's held (though let's be honest, downtown is the *only* place to logically hold such an event), is an event that can transform Jacksonville fundamentally.  It can change the city's vibe, mentality, and creative forces.  It can harness individual people's potential, which is an ingredient that has been utterly missing from the city for so long (why do you think people who can feasibly "escape" do?).

Let's not forget that Rummell once helmed Disney Imagineering.  Now he likely had an operational/financial management role (we know his title, but "role/purpose" can vary), but he was exposed to a highly creative, collaborative, and innovative environment.

I think Rummell's downtown goals are easily tied with the bigger picture of harnessing the local critical mass of potential and moving forward, rather than backward.  Jacksonville doesn't have a big research university or centuries of homegrown institutions that it can rely on, so One Spark is serving a vital role as a driver for innovation, technology, ideas, and new business models that can be "homegrown".

Quote from: simms3 on April 15, 2014, 09:35:46 PM
It sounds like what it boils down to is Rummell is looking for a vehicle to bring forth downtown revitalization, and perhaps in the long term look for some sort of profit.  I can relate.

However, Rummell sees the bigger picture, as well, but doesn't understand, live, or breathe it.  The bigger picture is that an event like OneSpark, regardless of where it's held (though let's be honest, downtown is the *only* place to logically hold such an event), is an event that can transform Jacksonville fundamentally.  It can change the city's vibe, mentality, and creative forces.  It can harness individual people's potential, which is an ingredient that has been utterly missing from the city for so long (why do you think people who can feasibly "escape" do?).

Let's not forget that Rummell once helmed Disney Imagineering.  Now he likely had an operational/financial management role (we know his title, but "role/purpose" can vary), but he was exposed to a highly creative, collaborative, and innovative environment.

I think Rummell's downtown goals are easily tied with the bigger picture of harnessing the local critical mass of potential and moving forward, rather than backward.  Jacksonville doesn't have a big research university or centuries of homegrown institutions that it can rely on, so One Spark is serving a vital role as a driver for innovation, technology, ideas, and new business models that can be "homegrown".

I would generally agree.  As far as I can see, Rummell hasn't said anything that has not been discussed and rehashed over and over with regard to downtown revitalization.  Even the DIA which was infact spawned of Rummell's influence has come up with nothing new.  Their recent proposals read like a summary of research and ideas generated via Metrojacksonville.  Perhaps Rummell should have given his 400K to this group.  lol  Personally, I am having a hard time understanding why folks are so resistant to understanding how development interests work politically and how that impacts our tax dollars, which is what Rummell is on about if you really listen to what he is saying.  I would agree that he sees the One Spark event as a way to showcase downtown which it did.  My sole problem with that is his decision to point to one Spark as if it were geared to change downtown development.  It wasn't. 

^^^Well, Rummell is at least putting his money where his mouth is.  We can't overlook the fact that Rummell is the driving force behind One Spark's creation, organization, and funding.  He may not be the hipster 25 year old who serves as the point guard for rallying the troops, but he got that 25 year old hipster's attention in the first place and pitched in the money needed to organize the event.

Has anyone seen the movie Jobs?  Horrible horrible movie.  But it showcases the relationship between $$$ and idea.  You need both.  Rummell is more on the $$$ side, and that's ok.  Perhaps he has an end goal, but I think even he realizes that he'll be old and senile before downtown is a ripe playground for what he would probably like to do real estate wise there.  But his heart and intentions are good.  Maybe not in his time, but he can be a force of change that gets us there with stuff like One Spark.

Any idea/concept that sticks from One Spark could spur a start up.  That start up will need seed money (likely to come a little bit from guys like Rummell...he's probably so envious of the VC environments of the Bay Area and Boston where guys like him go from millionaires to billionaires by funding "the next big ideas").  That start up will also need office space.  They'd probably prefer cool brick and timber space that can be leased/renovated in buildings downtown.

So One Spark could also fuel revitalization that way.  I think it all kind of ties together.

Quote from: simms3 on April 15, 2014, 09:56:28 PM
^^^Well, Rummell is at least putting his money where his mouth is.  We can't overlook the fact that Rummell is the driving force behind One Spark's creation, organization, and funding.  He may not be the hipster 25 year old who serves as the point guard for rallying the troops, but he got that 25 year old hipster's attention in the first place and pitched in the money needed to organize the event.

Has anyone seen the movie Jobs?  Horrible horrible movie.  But it showcases the relationship between $$$ and idea.  You need both.  Rummell is more on the $$$ side, and that's ok.  Perhaps he has an end goal, but I think even he realizes that he'll be old and senile before downtown is a ripe playground for what he would probably like to do real estate wise there.  But his heart and intentions are good.  Maybe not in his time, but he can be a force of change that gets us there with stuff like One Spark.

Any idea/concept that sticks from One Spark could spur a start up.  That start up will need seed money (likely to come a little bit from guys like Rummell...he's probably so envious of the VC environments of the Bay Area and Boston where guys like him go from millionaires to billionaires by funding "the next big ideas").  That start up will also need office space.  They'd probably prefer cool brick and timber space that can be leased/renovated in buildings downtown.

So One Spark could also fuel revitalization that way.  I think it all kind of ties together.

Of course he is because he is a developer who has plans for downtown which include a development he envisions that will grow his wealth. A vibrant downtown enhances his own real estate and business investments.  Not dissing that, just stating that this is not all about creating a better downtown for the city, that may be an adjunct to his actions though.  It is rather about firming up investments and creating new ones with himself and his new development idea at the top of the list. He is a hard core business man first and foremost, never forget that.  Again, not saying anything about this other than pointing out there are many reasons for his efforts and not all of them have to do with philanthropy. :)  I would venture to say that most of the folks who comment on this site, do so because they care about the future of the core and city out of the goodness of their heart for lack of better words.  It is a mistake to believe however that this is the motivating factor of all who show interest or invest funds. 

The fact that we've not made significant progress in achieving a vibrant and "building occupied" core, after thirty years of attempting it, is almost amazing, given all the talk of it, and the effort to it.

Surely this indicates a systemic problem somewhere in the mix, a problem never addressed.  What is the nature of the systemic problem?  Surely there is something hindering progress ... hidden ...  underlying the apparent.

Some occasionally point to the First Baptist Church.  But that idea has gotten old.  How about the "old guard" ... the rightists? ... the good ol boys?  ... the entrenched power .... who just might, being wealthy ..be too comfortable? ....  and therefore complacent as a consequence of being too comfortable?
 
The young in body and mind see what could be, and are restless to achieve it.  They are not complacent.  Set them free.  :)

There are several underlying problems Ron and you are on the money when you say that a good portion of those problems are systematic.  I have some insights to share on this perhaps in a new thread but not tonight.  I am tuckered out.  Perhaps tomorrow.  :)

Cheshire Cat, you do realize the One Spark folks also have their own plans for profiting from downtown revitalization and from the festival right? I don't think they have released their financials, but I doubt they are working for free out of the goodness of their heart...and I don't think the key goal of KYN is to provide a public service. And that is great. I hope they get rich as shit, while improving downtown along the way. Just like we should all hope that if Peter Rummell decides to invest downtown, that he also makes a killing doing so and improves downtown at the same time.

Diane,

Of course Rummell is a businessman.  That's kind of my whole point.

Behind every idea is backing.  Backing outside of events like Burning Man usually comes in the form of Mula.  Not Bitcoin.  Not weed.  Not sex.  One or all of those could be in the mix, but typically in America the USD is in the mix.  ;)

Rummell also probably doesn't have any major schemes for downtown.  He's doing better than throwing money at some concoction.  He's throwing money at a new "culture" in the city that can benefit downtown and the local economy more sustainably.  Whether you want to demonize his "businessman" approach because he's not the 25 year old in the flannel shirt pointing to a trifold board with graphs and pictures is up to you.  But the guy who does have the trifold board and the flannel shirt is there because of Rummell's $$$.

My point is that Rummell sees a bigger picture.  Sure he put his foot in his mouth by making the whole thing about downtown in one quote for the Business Journal (they probably asked him a downtown-specific question at the time), but I think he sees a bigger picture.  He has his own visions in his head, and probably realizes that he'll be an old man before his vision really cements.  That's ok.  He is making a positive name for himself by doing positive for the community.  I'm ok giving him credit that is actually due.  :)

Quote from: stephendare on April 15, 2014, 11:20:26 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 15, 2014, 06:17:06 PM
^and that kind of tit for tat is why I haven't posted in a long time.  It really is a disservice to the issues under discussion to have the conversation derailed with personal sparring. imo I had hoped that had changed.

sorry about the trolling cheshire cat.

He doesnt really break our rules, so....

doesnt make it any less offputting or more intelligent.

You can change the rules, as admin, to create a bounds where you must post a certain percentage of your posts on the actual topic or anything at hand where the subject of your post isn't someone else's post or a specific individual poster or group of posters.  All you have to do is set that bar at 10% and I-10 East would fail.  More than 90% of his posts are griping about other posts or posters, and 0% of his posts are contributing.  I would say just as we have "non-contributing" structures that can be torn down, we have non-contributing posters that make the rest of our posting lives more exhausting.

I almost feel bad saying this, but this particular poster fails to think about what he posts, grasp what other people post, or even "accidentally" post something intelligible or interesting.  I mean out of 3,095 posts, one would think he/she would have "stumbled upon" writing something worth the rest of our reading time.

Cheshire, your thoughts are well-constructed and very rational but I disagree with you here and don't really understand from where your agitation is coming. 

First, it sounds like the article in question was written from an interview that included Elton Rivas and Michael Munz. The quotes attributed to Rummell came from conversation with Rivas. It's not like Rummell was bashing the event in front of him.

Secondly, I have heard Elton, Dennis and Varick (the three co-founders) talk numerous times of the opportunity to reinvent the city and the urban core. I have no doubt that all three hoped the organization and the festival would contribute to downtown revitalization. Not that it would be the one cure all, and not that this was their only objective, but yes, it's an important byproduct.

ProjectMaximus.  Do I sound agitated?  lol  Truly I am not agitated but I will share that there is some frustration on my part which is born of years of being on both the inside and outside of big business and local government. It also comes from the inability at times to share some insights with folks as to why things happen the way they do by discussing the role business and politics play in what happens in Jacksonville only to have those insights seen as a threat, snark or worse, throw some into a defensive posture.  :)  The frustration this time around came from viewing a lead article which in it's tone was dismissive in some ways of the positive impact of the "One Spark" event and it's stated purpose.  I have tried my best to impart the sentiment that it's peachy that Rummell put money into the One Spark event, bravo. Can we all be clear on that at least? lol

If we are ever going to understand how Jacksonville and it's politics fail us and how the main players impact this city and our future, we have to open our eyes to the reality of who is leading the dialog on everything from downtown to the borders of Duval.  We can't always be awe struck by the shinny objects, in this case Rummells funding and by doing so miss the opportunity to understand that for top tier business folks the use of money is often only a way to heighten a persons public persona and personal business dealings. Again, there is nothing wrong with that. I am just saying see the actions for what they are as opposed to embellishing them to elevate one persons giving or influence in our city.  Jacksonville can be such a cheap date and those who know how to play us emotionally and politically know that very well.  Yes Rummell gave a sizable sum of money to the One Spark and it is my view that he did so because he wanted to bring attention to downtown in order to move his personal vision for our city forward. HIS PERSONAL VISION, but is it a vision that is good for all of us?  We should know that I would think.   When we refuse to see the actions of the players for what they are, we weaken our own input and impact when it comes to who sits where at the table when deciding the future of Jacksonville and downtown.  It impacts how our collective resources and tax monies are spent.  Rummells seed money was sizable but when reflected by his total wealth was not all that great.  The truth is that there are many others who gave much more of their time and personal wealth to this effort than Rummell on a comparative basis.  Without a collective community effort One Spark would never have happened either, regardless of Rummells funding. It was clearly a collaborative effort.

The other part of the frustration comes from the fact that we as a city so readily applaud the giving of money on one hand  to an event and then turn a blind eye to the fact that the same person who invested in this event also bought a mayor who has been lousy for Jacksonville.  Somehow that financial influence is not seen for what it is and how it impacts our city.  Understanding how things work in Jacksonville who is pulling the strings is paramount to creating the positive change so many wish for.  We for years had the nifty fifty driving our city at many levels and that morphed into the Civic Council of which Rummell is a major player. I am pointing out who is deciding how our collective future should look that's all and then saying we should ask ourselves how and if those decisions benefit us all. It is important we remember who is who and how they benefit from funding in our city one way or another.  We are seeing the same star struck response when it comes to the investments of Shad Khan.  It's business first people and public service falls beneath that and business at the top levels in this city turns on tax dollars and city assets.  Those assets belong to all of us as does the vision of what our city should become.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 15, 2014, 10:07:05 PM
Of course he is because he is a developer who has plans for downtown which include a development he envisions that will grow his wealth.

the only "downtown" development idea that Rummell has put forth is for the old JEA generating station on the southbank...making a connection between that and his significant funding and other support of the original One Spark festival is really reaching.

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 16, 2014, 08:05:32 AM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 15, 2014, 10:07:05 PM
Of course he is because he is a developer who has plans for downtown which include a development he envisions that will grow his wealth.

the only "downtown" development idea that Rummell has put forth is for the old JEA generating station on the southbank...making a connection between that and his significant funding and other support of the original One Spark festival is really reaching.

I'd personally go a little further than "reaching", but I'll bite my tongue.

My favorite part was her downplaying the amount of money he gave, because its not sizable compared to his total wealth.

I'll back my earlier statement. The thread got worthless real quick....

Bottom line is that if he didn't donate his money to One Spark 2013, the event wouldn't be what it is today. For that I'm appreciative. Oh and, when did it become a unique thing for a rich guy to donate to a political campaign? Let's not crucify him for that one, because if you want to crucify everyone who donates large sums of money to political candidates, Wr will be here for a while.

On that note, while Alvin Brown has had his ups and downs, to this day I still take him over Mike Hogan. His large donation came during the runoff, so from my perspective, given the two candidates, I say thank you.

Now, how did we get here from a discussion on an article in which he was quoted regarding One Spark and Downtown. While I've never met the man, I do agree with him. Now, discuss your thoughts on his opinion in the article....go.

Bottom line is that One Spark was not the creation of Peter Rummell. As I said, Rummell tagged himself financially to a concept and event that was not his idea.  Three names were at the forefront of the creation as it originated and none of them was Rummells.  From the original business journal article and I quote,

Our Story & Some History

One Spark, Inc. is a nonprofit organization working to foster an environment of innovation. It was created in 2011 by three friends (Elton Rivas, Dennis Eusebio, and Varick Rosete) who wanted to connect ideas with resources. Despite its name, there was no single "spark" that inspired the nonprofit, but rather a number of small coffee shop conversations that blew up into something big

Sorry to say Chesire Cat, but you don't even have the correct three men. One Spark (the event) started as the Epoch Project and Wayne Wood, Dolf James, and Doug Coleman were the original creators of the concept.

http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/arts/2012-03-13/story/project-aims-draw-big-crowds-downtown-jacksonville

CL and others in defensive mode....It is a known strategy of top tier business to leverage private money against public money in business. It strengthens their own investments and gives them leverage in important discussions.  In this situation Rummell leveraged his initial personal financial investment in One Spark with good reason and I am sure there was more than one.  I never said he was not a smart man, quite the contrary, he is smart enough to know a good opportunity when he sees one.  Clearly tho CL, you are completely naive about the doings of business and investments at such a level.  Is the aim to place adoration upon one man regarding the efforts of many?  He did not create the idea and certainly is not the reason the event was so successful.  The success came from the creators sharing their ideas and those attending the event.  He funded what was an idea spawned by others.  Let's keep it real to some degree.  If you paid any attention at all to Rummells agenda, or even really understood the article that began this thread, you and others will see that Rummell is using One Spark as leverage in order to garner city funding in the form of incentives for development.  I did not say that is a bad thing, I said there is a method to his madness as it were.  I still stand firmly on the premise that Jacksonville and it's citizens are too easily side tracked by dollar signs and readily fall into some bizarre type of worship of those with high finance.  High finance attached itself to the ideas  of Elton Rivas, Dennis Eusebio and Varick Rosete along with "rather a number of coffee shop conversations that blew up into something big.  One Spark was happening with or without Rummell.  Would the first event had seen the success it did without him?  Hard to say really, but the ideas were born of regular folk.  Again, the real and long lasting changes in Jacksonville will be organic in nature and spawned of creative thinking and approaches to who is driving the positive change in Jacksonville.  For those who chose to see Rummell as the father of this effort because he put money in it, of course you are free to do so.  I think however that creating a story line about it's success as a direct result of Rummells interest undermines the value of the original effort by taking that creation from the streets and making it about one man and his money and opinion of what is needed to change downtown. 

Quote from: CityLife on April 16, 2014, 08:50:59 AM
Sorry to say Chesire Cat, but you don't even have the correct three men. One Spark started as the Epoch Project and Wayne Wood, Dolf James, and Doug Coleman were the original creators of the concept.

http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/arts/2012-03-13/story/project-aims-draw-big-crowds-downtown-jacksonville

Sorry to say CL but I did not author the article that discussed who created it, the Business Journal did.  This is the three names given at the origin.  However I do note that in the three names you give as originators, not one of them is Rummell.  That is the point. 

From the Jacksonville Daily Record.  http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542675

Reported can be pesky little things CL, I understand your confusion. 

In a coffee shop off Southside Boulevard, Rivas, Varick Rosete and Dennis Eusebio had decisions to make.

They all had job offers outside Jacksonville but moving wasn't necessarily their first choice. In fact, they were tired of being told they'd have to move to live in a city that encouraged entrepreneurial efforts.

Rivas said the conversation became this: "Are we moving and going and doing something different or are we going to stay here and try to build a culture that we really wanted to be part of?"

The decision to stay helped build a new entrepreneurial path in the city and helped tear down the perceptions that a startup community couldn't succeed here.   

Seems that most all the points and factors have at least some validity, and warrant some support.  Some just disagree on the amplitudes and significance of the various factors presented.  And the emotion of the arguments increase as the erroneous assumptions, and misinterpretations as to others positions, increases.  Its fun. :)

Quote from: ronchamblin on April 16, 2014, 09:10:46 AM
Seems that most all the points and factors have at least some validity, and warrant some support.  Some just disagree on the amplitudes and significance of the various factors presented.  And the emotion of the arguments increase as the erroneous assumptions, and misinterpretations as to others positions, increases.  Its fun. :)

It's a matter of perceptions about story line and the importance of big money and high profile personalities to my view.  Is it fun? As in all things I guess that is a matter of perception. The event itself was more than fun.

My question is who invited who to the dance?  To my view Rummell was invited to the dance and he accepted the invitation and then when the dance was over he decided to point out that the dance was not that big of a deal really when it came to changing downtown forever.  I know exactly what he was doing which was to point blank say to Jacksonville, see the purdy things we can do in downtown.  Nice huh, but they are worthless in the long run.  What is needed is incentives, incentives, incentives and a $29 million dollar budget for the DIA which was his bargaining chip with mayor Alvin Brown.  Does no one understand how the pieces fit together?  Come on peeps.  From the article beginning this thread.  When discussing the current budget of DIA for downtown, That's not enough, Rummell said, and other forms of incentives — tax abatement and other non-cash strategies — don't cut it in today's world. In early 2011, when Rummell founded the Jacksonville Civic Council,it called for the formation of the Downtown Investment Authority with a budget of $29 million.  For those who scream we are tired of GOB control and are done repeating the past, look at who you are in some ways now putting at the helm of ship Jacksonville.  Rummell, founder of Jacksonville Civic Council previously know as the nifty fifty.  He is the old guard people.  lol

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 08:58:26 AM
Clearly tho CL, you are completely naive about the doings of business and investments at such a level. 

Wouldn't be the first time you've been off in the thread....

Now lets get this thing back on track and stick to the message, not the messenger.

Like Steve said earlier. Now, discuss your thoughts on his opinion in the article....go.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 08:43:05 AM
Bottom line is that One Spark was not the creation of Peter Rummell. As I said, Rummell tagged himself financially to a concept and event that was not his idea.  Three names were at the forefront of the creation as it originated and none of them was Rummells.  From the original business journal article and I quote,

Our Story & Some History

One Spark, Inc. is a nonprofit organization working to foster an environment of innovation. It was created in 2011 by three friends (Elton Rivas, Dennis Eusebio, and Varick Rosete) who wanted to connect ideas with resources. Despite its name, there was no single "spark" that inspired the nonprofit, but rather a number of small coffee shop conversations that blew up into something big

please...ask any of those three (especially Elton) how involved Peter Rummell was from the beginning....trust me, he didn't just swoop in, write a check, and fly away.   

fact is the three founders were looking to do a tech/entrepeneur festival....at the same time Wayne Wood, Dolph James, and Doug Coleman were trying to do an arts & cultural festival....the two groups met and agreed to combine concepts.

Wayne, Dolph, and Doug walked away from the day-to-day and the 3 One Spark guys carried it forward....that said, Wayne and Dolph have been very involved in both the 2013 and 2014 events and Doug has taken his talents to TedX Jacksonville.

Quote from: CityLife on April 16, 2014, 10:07:33 AM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 08:58:26 AM
Clearly tho CL, you are completely naive about the doings of business and investments at such a level. 

Wouldn't be the first time you've been off in the thread....

Now lets get this thing back on track and stick to the message, not the messenger.

Like Steve said earlier. Now, discuss your thoughts on his opinion in the article....go.

Bless your heart CL.  I am on topic.  What you fail to understand is that all the things I mentioned are intertwined and totally relevant to the thread and the discussion about One Spark and Rummell's impressions of it's impact and influence downtown.  You just don't want to see it really and that's okay.  Your choice, but please do not try and nudge me away from discussing the ways of influence and the GOB as it impacts how Jacksonville is run and who is driving the direction in which we are headed.  The fact that Rummell tied his wagon to the One Spark event using his money should not be a driving factor in the discussions of downtown, but just one of the factors.  On another level, I fail to see how embracing old ideas and methods with regard to downtown revitalization are going to make a difference.  Rummell has offered no earthshaking insights nor has he shown us anything new. Same old same old with the same old results.  Pour more money into downtown without a plan.  Incentives, bigger budget etc. etc. etc.  What is new in any of that?  Nothing.  It's the same tired old mantra now attached to something new and exciting called "One Spark".  You don't get new results in a community or the urban core by doing the same things that have failed in the past.  This is vintage GOB control and influence pure and simple.  We have had the DDA, JEDC and now the DIA all ideas for downtown and all have failed to make the great strides they pretended to offer.  Including the slow moving and un-inspired DIA efforts which are old ideas rehashed or borrowed from others. 

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 16, 2014, 10:27:41 AM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 08:43:05 AM
Bottom line is that One Spark was not the creation of Peter Rummell. As I said, Rummell tagged himself financially to a concept and event that was not his idea.  Three names were at the forefront of the creation as it originated and none of them was Rummells.  From the original business journal article and I quote,

Our Story & Some History

One Spark, Inc. is a nonprofit organization working to foster an environment of innovation. It was created in 2011 by three friends (Elton Rivas, Dennis Eusebio, and Varick Rosete) who wanted to connect ideas with resources. Despite its name, there was no single "spark" that inspired the nonprofit, but rather a number of small coffee shop conversations that blew up into something big

please...ask any of those three (especially Elton) how involved Peter Rummell was from the beginning....trust me, he didn't just swoop in, write a check, and fly away.   

fact is the three founders were looking to do a tech/entrepeneur festival....at the same time Wayne Wood, Dolph James, and Doug Coleman were trying to do an arts & cultural festival....the two groups met and agreed to combine concepts.

Wayne, Dolph, and Doug walked away from the day-to-day and the 3 One Spark guys carried it forward....that said, Wayne and Dolph have been very involved in both the 2013 and 2014 events and Doug has taken his talents to TedX

I get it, you like Rummell and his money.  That doesn't change the fact that he has attached his money to the ideas of others which is okay as long as his money and influence do not override real inspirations and change, which is what they are doing and looks to me like no one wants to recognize that fact.  The adoration will continue on the part of many and frankly that is no surprise.  I am glad you did mention the others involved however, it puts the perspective back where it belongs which is One Spark was born of many creative people and their ideas and money did not create that, it just helped it along more quickly.  I have no doubt that the One Spark concept would have still been a growing success.  Yes, I have that much faith in the regular folk among us.  Now if you are trying to say Rummell is a good guy, I did not say he wasn't, but he has an agenda and is working it.  Like in so many other areas that impact Jacksonville, politics for instance, some mistake niceness and charisma as a measure of intent.  As it stands a good part of Rummells intent is something that many here are very interested in which is the downtown profile and it's future.  But as in politics, it should not be about the personality or their money, it should be about viable plans for our city, in this case, downtown.  Rummell has offered no new insights.  Thats the reality.  We have heard it all before which is we need more money.  What's new about that? Stating the obvious is not a plan in my view and I repeat that Rummell is the past and exposes the GOB influence that still has a strangle hold on our city.  In that way, nothing has changed in Jacksonville except the story line.  The underlying facts of who is driving the city still remain the same. 

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 10:36:54 AM
I get it, you like Rummell and his money.

sorry but I never said that.  On the other hand, it appears from your statements that you resent Mr. Rummell and his money.

but speaking of money, here's what really happened.  Wood, James, and Coleman thought they needed $1 million to make their idea happen.  The money dried up around $300,000.  Rummell was able to supplement that $300k with another $300k and also bring other funders to the table.

And to your other point, I highly doubt that Elton Rivas or the other founders/partners would say that Rummell has tried to override their ideas based on his financial contribution.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 08:43:05 AM
Our Story & Some History

One Spark, Inc. is a nonprofit organization working to foster an environment of innovation. It was created in 2011 by three friends (Elton Rivas, Dennis Eusebio, and Varick Rosete) who wanted to connect ideas with resources. Despite its name, there was no single "spark" that inspired the nonprofit, but rather a number of small coffee shop conversations that blew up into something big

I'm pretty sure One Spark, Inc. had already formed before the original Epoch guys passed the torch. You may not recall, but they had a video or something during an Art Walk, highlighting their establishment.  This was maybe a year or so before they got involved with saving Epoch (which was rebranded as One Spark 2013). Around the time Epoch was falling apart, I was a part of a group of young professionals that were invited to Peter Rummell's house and a few Civic Council meetings. Elton was as well, which is when I first met and talked to him.  I vividly remember the discussions of saving Epoch by going the crowd sourcing route, which had been mentioned by a few involved young professionals at the time. Many of us were asked to help initially.  Some did, some didn't. Do to my schedule at the time, I was one who passed.

Nevertheless, I'm happy things have turned out the way they did.  I hope it encourages more people to get involved with improving our community and really taking Jax "to the next level." It's been pretty exciting to see ideas discussed around beer grow into something that packed nearly 300k people in downtown's streets two years later. Rummell was a huge help. It just goes to show what can happen in a relatively short time when we facilitate our young talent as opposed to throwing obstacles in the way.

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 16, 2014, 11:05:40 AM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 10:36:54 AM
I get it, you like Rummell and his money.

sorry but I never said that.  On the other hand, it appears from your statements that you resent Mr. Rummell and his money.

You could not be more wrong.  lol  I have no problem with him as a person or his money.  What I am pointing out is that Rummell was not the brain behind One Spark, thats a fact. It is also a fact that he promoted the event as high profile and important to branding a new Jacksonville in one breath and then underplayed it's influence in another.  There is nothing new about folks of influence co-opting the work of others in order to raise their public profile and make a mark.  It's a strategy and one well understood by high level business folk and in this situation the old guard of Jacksonville of which Rummell is a leading member.  If we as a city are ever going to make strides with inspired new approaches, we must understand that looking for guidance and leadership from those who have been in play for decades and failed to revitalize downtown will somehow now change that by offering the same old strategies.  You don't get different results by doing things the same worn out way.  Too much of what is our future is still driven by the old guard/GOB influence and mindset.  Rummells influence brought us the DIA via Alvin Brown.  Please, someone tell me what powerful new strategies were born of that effort?  What thing is it they have come up with that will make the "big" difference downtown?

Diane, you're really stretching here, and *even* if you were 100% correct, who the F cares?  Daddy Warbucks came in and we're all happy as a result.

Now I don't know if it's naivety from living in Jax so long, or bla bla bla, but I've been gone from Jax for 8 years now, and I can tell you guys like Rummell grease the engines of every successful city in America.  I also live in the tech capital of the universe, the VC capital of the universe, and the most innovative place that has existed in all of humanity, by a lot.  All of this is possible because of the collaboration of Daddy Warbuckses and young guys in flannel shirts.  In fact, usually Daddy Warbuckses are way more involved and often way cooler and creative than you give credit for, or apparently even realize is possible.

Contrary to your popularly bought and naive belief, many "business guys" aren't the buttoned up serious assholes who lack a sense of humor and can't come up with their own ideas.  No.  Quite the contrary.  Many are people persons who come up with or help build ideas themselves, get involved in the trenches, and throw their money, brains, political will, and enthusiasm at projects they believe in.  We'd all be living in caves still without them.

Thank you Peter Rummell for this.  Thank you all the little guys who also contributed.  And I agree that if you are a fan of downtown, this is simply a start.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 16, 2014, 11:16:08 AM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 08:43:05 AM
Our Story & Some History

One Spark, Inc. is a nonprofit organization working to foster an environment of innovation. It was created in 2011 by three friends (Elton Rivas, Dennis Eusebio, and Varick Rosete) who wanted to connect ideas with resources. Despite its name, there was no single "spark" that inspired the nonprofit, but rather a number of small coffee shop conversations that blew up into something big

I'm pretty sure One Spark, Inc. had already formed before the original Epoch guys passed the torch. You may not recall, but they had a video or something during an Art Walk, highlighting their establishment.  This was maybe a year or so before they got involved with saving Epoch (which was rebranded as One Spark 2013). Around the time Epoch was falling apart, I was a part of a group of young professionals that were invited to Peter Rummell's house and a few Civic Council meetings. Elton was as well, which is when I first met and talked to him.  I vividly remember the discussions of saving Epoch by going the crowd sourcing route, which had been mentioned by a few involved young professionals at the time. Many of us were asked to help initially.  Some did, some didn't. Do to my schedule at the time, I was one who passed.

Nevertheless, I'm happy things have turned out the way they did.  I hope it encourages more people to get involved with improving our community and really taking Jax "to the next level." It's been pretty exciting to see ideas discussed around beer grow into something that packed nearly 300k people in downtown's streets two years later. Rummell was a huge help. It just goes to show what can happen in a relatively short time when we facilitate our young talent as opposed to throwing obstacles in the way.

It just goes to show what can happen in a relatively short time when we facilitate our young talent as opposed to throwing obstacles in the way.[b/]

QuoteI agree, which is why it disheartened me to see Rummell underplay the importance of the event less than two days after it ended.  He had his reasons for doing that and those reasons had to do with his agenda for downtown and his fear of losing momentum for that.  So I am still asking this.  What has Rummell offered as a strategy for downtown that we have not heard before?  As far as One Spark, I don't think most people saw this as more than what it was which was a major crowd funding event held in downtown and not a revitalization effort.

Also, *if* Rummell's primary goal is to receive public financing or funding down the road for his dream downtown project (whatever that is), ok?  Every city has governments influenced by powerful deep-pocketed interests.  Seriously?  I'd rather have the city cow-towing to a guy like Rummell than your average local SS stick subdivision developer or a guy like Toney Sleiman.  Wouldn't we all?

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 11:17:28 AM

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 16, 2014, 11:05:40 AM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 10:36:54 AM
I get it, you like Rummell and his money.

sorry but I never said that.  On the other hand, it appears from your statements that you resent Mr. Rummell and his money.

You could not be more wrong.  lol  I have no problem with him as a person or his money.  What I am pointing out is that Rummell was not the brain behind One Spark, thats a fact. It is also a fact that he promoted the event as high profile and important to branding a new Jacksonville in one breath and then underplayed it's influence in another.  There is nothing new about folks of influence co-opting the work of others in order to raise their public profile and make a mark.  It's a strategy and one well understood by high level business folk and in this situation the old guard of Jacksonville of which Rummell is a leading member.  If we as a city are ever going to make strides with inspired new approaches, we must understand that looking for guidance and leadership from those who have been in play for decades and failed to revitalize downtown will somehow now change that by offering the same old strategies.  You don't get different results by doing things the same worn out way.  Too much of what is our future is still driven by the old guard/GOB influence and mindset.  Rummells influence brought us the DIA via Alvin Brown.  Please, someone tell me what powerful new strategies were born of that effort?  What thing is it they have come up with that will make the "big" difference downtown?

Diane, you are not seeing this for reality.  OneSpark hasn't yet produced something/someone "bigger" than the guy who funded and kind of put it all together.  Until a Jax version of Steve Jobs and Apple comes out of this program, Rummell is they guy.  He's the face.

Also, I've already given you what I can imagine to be Rummell's idea for downtown.  You just fail to see it.  Rummell is a smarter guy than probably all of us.  He sees a much bigger picture that he is creating.  He is creating a ground up force of innovation and idea implementation that might stir up the economy here and do something to put Jax on the map.  Downtown won't be anything without an improved and special 21st century oriented economy.  Right now it's not.  I think that Rummell's long term vision is that there is some homegrown business born out of this event and the evolving local innovation economy that gets big enough to do something.  Maybe there will eventually be companies needing office space.  Maybe Jax starts going down the Austin path, and becomes attractive to young people with ideas.  All of that will certainly lead to downtown revitalization.

I don't think Rummell is into gimmicks or actually investing himself into downtown real estate.  He could have been there done that already if he were.  He's into investing in ideas and people.  And maybe some day he'll be an angel investor to something from OneSpark, directly or indirectly, that turns into something bigger.  And maybe that something will need a new office space.  Etc etc etc

I can also guarantee you that Rummell isn't "old guard" in the way we have defined it on this site.  He's actually "new" guard.

Finally, Rummell has a lot personally invested in OneSpark and likely his grander vision for the city (I don't mean financially, I mean personally).  He is influencing City Council and other city leaders in all the ways we would want them influenced.  It takes time, but I guarantee you he has their ears to a point.

Quote from: simms3 on April 16, 2014, 11:33:44 AM
Also, *if* Rummell's primary goal is to receive public financing or funding down the road for his dream downtown project (whatever that is), ok?  Every city has governments influenced by powerful deep-pocketed interests.  Seriously?  I'd rather have the city cow-towing to a guy like Rummell than your average local SS stick subdivision developer or a guy like Toney Sleiman.  Wouldn't we all?

Okay, but if securing public funding is the goal, what is different about that?  We have poured billions into downtown over the years and not seen the desired turn around.  The strategy for downtown has got to be more than "throw money at it".  You use the word cow-towing to describe the dynamic between the city and Rummell.  For me it is rather about whose ideas we chose to empower with tax dollars and city efforts.  What is he offering that we have not heard before?  The backside of this and Rummells influence has also meant having Alvin Brown as our mayor.  While we talk about funding for downtown, the biggest elephant in the room that stands to ruin us financially is the unresolved pension issue which Brown is incapable of resolving and lacks the leadership to do so.  To my view the people of Jacksonville need to also recognize that as a factor and a result of Rummells influence on local politics.  We will be in worse shape financially after Brown than before him.  All that glitters is not gold or money in the bank.  While Rummell was able to get Brown into office with his support and see the creation of the DIA, we quickly saw that funding downtown the way he and others wanted was not going to happen with the pension issue and other funding shortfalls hanging over our heads.  When the issue of funding the DIA came before the council, they slashed the funding in a big way.  How is that ever going to be different with no resolve to our biggest financial burden. 

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 16, 2014, 11:48:46 AM

Quote from: simms3 on April 16, 2014, 11:33:44 AM
Also, *if* Rummell's primary goal is to receive public financing or funding down the road for his dream downtown project (whatever that is), ok?  Every city has governments influenced by powerful deep-pocketed interests.  Seriously?  I'd rather have the city cow-towing to a guy like Rummell than your average local SS stick subdivision developer or a guy like Toney Sleiman.  Wouldn't we all?

Okay, but if securing public funding is the goal, what is different about that?  We have poured billions into downtown over the years and not seen the desired turn around.  The strategy for downtown has got to be more than "throw money at it".  You use the word cow-towing to describe the dynamic between the city and Rummell.  For me it is rather about whose ideas we chose to empower with tax dollars and city efforts.  What is he offering that we have not heard before?  The backside of this and Rummells influence has also meant having Alvin Brown as our mayor.  While we talk about funding for downtown, the biggest elephant in the room that stands to ruin us financially is the unresolved pension issue which Brown is incapable of resolving and lacks the leadership to do so.  To my view the people of Jacksonville need to also recognize that as a factor and a result of Rummells influence on local politics.  We will be in worse shape financially after Brown than before him.  All that glitters is not gold or money in the bank.  While Rummell was able to get Brown into office with his support and see the creation of the DIA, we quickly saw that funding downtown the way he and others wanted was not going to happen with the pension issue and other funding shortfalls hanging over our heads.  When the issue of funding the DIA came before the council, they slashed the funding in a big way.  How is that ever going to be different with no resolve to our biggest financial burden. 

And again, I don't think you get it (from this latest post).  I'm moving on from this thread.

Okay Simms, what is Rummells big idea for downtown? I see what he is trying to do and well know that anything that even looks like support for the revitalization for downtown is something most members of this forum are keenly focused on. I too would dearly love to see downtown alive and vital so tell me Simms, what are his new innovations?  Are we just supposed to follow the downtown pied piper?  What is the big plan?  What has the DIA brought to the mix in the way of new ideas to change the face of downtown?  I am waiting to hear an answer but am stuck in this echo chamber that would have me agree to everyone else's view of the matter.  lol   I am looking far beneath the surface here at local politics and who holds the reigns.  It would appear that you and some others just don't get that which to some degree is why folks stay stuck in an endless cycle of high hopes and disappointment when it comes to the actions taken by our city regarding downtown, not to mention other areas of great importance. :)  Seriously, I know there are really no new innovations or ideas offered so far by Rummell or the DIA.  We are still stuck at more money to solve the problems and I am reminded that discussion in the face of a desire to remain tied to the status quo and popular opinion is rather futile when it comes to demanding the needed awareness and changes of the hidden brokering of power and influence that is Jacksonville.  I have said all that I intend upon saying in this regard.  I know when I am wasting my time.  I had forgot how that happens more times than not in online discussions.  Either agree with the most vocal or be hounded with the reasons why you must agree with the most vocal.  I return the discussion to all of you.  Have at it. 

Why on earth would Rummell or anyone with their own personal/business plans for downtown share them with the public so they can be stolen or duplicated? I have a development idea that has a maybe 25% chance of being accomplished someday, but I'm not financially ready to act on it. I'm confident that the option will still be there in 3-5 years when it is more attainable for me...but I sure as heck haven't told it to anyone and won't.

If Rummel has a big picture plan/vision, we'll find out when he's ready to tell us.

More from the Jax Daily Record:

QuoteOne Spark is path to ecosystem of building startups

There they sat at the table, less than 48 hours after the close of One Spark.
The businessman. The strategist. The creator.

And they were feeling pretty good.

About 260,000 people had come Downtown to the five-day festival, double from the year before.

Success had been assisted by critical changes made after the first year — a smaller footprint, nearly quadruple the investment capital pool and crowdfunding money, and adding an education component through EdSpark.

And then there was the perfect chamber-of-commerce weather all five days.

"Somebody said that based on the weather, we have the legitimate right to say, 'One Spark presented by God,'" said Peter Rummell, a veteran businessman and major investor in One Spark.

full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542718

Quote from: thelakelander on April 16, 2014, 01:06:48 PM
More from the Jax Daily Record:

QuoteOne Spark is path to ecosystem of building startups

There they sat at the table, less than 48 hours after the close of One Spark.
The businessman. The strategist. The creator.

And they were feeling pretty good.

About 260,000 people had come Downtown to the five-day festival, double from the year before.

Success had been assisted by critical changes made after the first year — a smaller footprint, nearly quadruple the investment capital pool and crowdfunding money, and adding an education component through EdSpark.

And then there was the perfect chamber-of-commerce weather all five days.

"Somebody said that based on the weather, we have the legitimate right to say, 'One Spark presented by God,'" said Peter Rummell, a veteran businessman and major investor in One Spark.

full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542718

Exactly.  If there is any "ulterior  motive" or "development" motive in Rummell, his first step isn't holding his hand out asking for a handout for some grand scheme that may or may not work.  It is putting his money where his mouth is and his heart is and helping to breed and create an economy that actually has legs.  Without a basis (i.e. an economy), there is no $$$ in real estate development.  John Rood has received tons of city assistance for his projects, and it appears he has actually lost money on them.  So city help or not, a project isn't viable or profitable if there is no fundamental demand for it.

Quote from: stephendare on April 16, 2014, 01:14:51 PM
meh.

I appreciate Rummel's comments and his early funding.  Without it, it would have been just another ArtWalk, in my opinion.

And I think its time we moved beyond sabotaging each other in this city from doing good things on the basis of politics elsewhere that we dont like.

I may not agree with the politics of Jim Love and Robin Lumb, but Im not going to sabotage their efforts to modify the Fuller Warren Bridge corridor for the sake of Historic Preservation.

And using politics to undercut public culture is the worst tactic of the far right in my opinion, and I certainly hope that we dont engage in it here. 

A festival is a festival, and this one was awesome.

I hope that everyone who sees Rummel thanks him as well.

Very well put

Quote from: stephendare on April 16, 2014, 01:14:51 PM
meh.

I appreciate Rummel's comments and his early funding.  Without it, it would have been just another ArtWalk, in my opinion.

And I think its time we moved beyond sabotaging each other in this city from doing good things on the basis of politics elsewhere that we dont like.

I may not agree with the politics of Jim Love and Robin Lumb, but Im not going to sabotage their efforts to modify the Fuller Warren Bridge corridor for the sake of Historic Preservation.

And using politics to undercut public culture is the worst tactic of the far right in my opinion, and I certainly hope that we dont engage in it here. 

A festival is a festival, and this one was awesome.

I hope that everyone who sees Rummel thanks him as well.

Dude, I don't always agree with you, but point is VERY well put.

BTW, I really think much of Rummell's point was that we can't stop focusing on downtown and think One Spark is going to save it. We've done that a few times, thinking that the latest pony is out ticket to full downtown revitalization, like with Toney Sleiman (Landing) or Cameron Kuhn (Barnett/Laura Trio/SunTrust building).

I think we can all agree with that.

You know his quote about "Gentrifying downtown" is a bit scary to me. I am all for new developments and projects but if the balance isn't right and you don't have the mix of culture, arts and music, the creative minds that contributed to the good things we have right now wont be able to get a foot hold because of astronomical rents.

BTW the events that are thrown at the landing do not cater to any sort of urban crowd at all. The Landing has missed the boat and I worry that throwing money at it wont change the mentality that drives it now that of course is another thread.

I don't think there's much danger of gentrification downtown, One Spark or no One Spark. Gentrification is an organic process that cannot be forced, because of the way it works. Here's a brief summary of how an area becomes gentrified.

Step One: People who have almost nothing but imagination and energy start moving into a run-down area, drawn by dirt-cheap rent, and lack of interference from finicky landlords, inflexible regulatory bodies, and whiny neighbors.

Step Two: Not gonna happen in downtown Jacksonville. See step one.

Quote from: Steve on April 16, 2014, 02:58:57 PM

Quote from: stephendare on April 16, 2014, 01:14:51 PM
meh.

I appreciate Rummel's comments and his early funding.  Without it, it would have been just another ArtWalk, in my opinion.

And I think its time we moved beyond sabotaging each other in this city from doing good things on the basis of politics elsewhere that we dont like.

I may not agree with the politics of Jim Love and Robin Lumb, but Im not going to sabotage their efforts to modify the Fuller Warren Bridge corridor for the sake of Historic Preservation.

And using politics to undercut public culture is the worst tactic of the far right in my opinion, and I certainly hope that we dont engage in it here. 

A festival is a festival, and this one was awesome.

I hope that everyone who sees Rummel thanks him as well.

Dude, I don't always agree with you, but point is VERY well put.

Stephen Dare, Simms3, CityLife.........................you have nailed it.  The positives from OneSpark are enormous! 
Savor it; build on it, and ignore the constant voices of negativity that try to dominate some of the posted discussion on the future of Jacksonville.  To try and change the discussion to one of politics is more than counter productive, it's just plain ignorant.

QuoteBTW the events that are thrown at the landing do not cater to any sort of urban crowd at all. The Landing has missed the boat and I worry that throwing money at it wont change the mentality that drives it now that of course is another thread.

That is the most ignorant comment I have ever heard about the Landing. As ignorant as the comments of downtown being "dangerous". Now both have good company!

One Spark is only a catalyst to show "what downtown could be like". Once a year, Christmas downtown for a week, double the event turnout in a year, going to be hard to get 500,000 down there next year, but 350-400k would be great.

My question to the masses, stephen, et al, So "Shad donates 3.5 million to One Spark, yet the entrants have to pony up $10,000 (as one did for the technology category)", where does all of Shad's money go to? Does Joe really cost that much per year? Can someone help me connect the dots as to where Shad's money goes? Where did Rummell's money go? TIA

Quote from: mtraininjax on April 16, 2014, 07:12:49 PM

QuoteBTW the events that are thrown at the landing do not cater to any sort of urban crowd at all. The Landing has missed the boat and I worry that throwing money at it wont change the mentality that drives it now that of course is another thread.

My question to the masses, stephen, et al, So "Shad donates 3.5 million to One Spark, yet the entrants have to pony up $10,000 (as one did for the technology category)", where does all of Shad's money go to? Does Joe really cost that much per year? Can someone help me connect the dots as to where Shad's money goes? Where did Rummell's money go? TIA

Khan has never donated 3.5 million to One Spark. That's a marketing ploy to drum up more excitement for the event. It's basically money he (and partners) will invest if there are creators that interest him. The One Spark crew doesn't touch it. As for people paying a $10,000 entry fee. Huh?

I had a nice convo with one of the creators Khan invested in after last One Spark. It's a cool business and has potential, but let's just say it didn't appear they were getting the full service treatment. There was one fairly substantial and obvious business opportunity they weren't even aware of, and I pointed them in the right direction...and I'm not exactly a business development guru.

Khan (through Stache Investments) put up $1 million last year and another $1 million this year....last year's $ went to helping 6 creators move their idea forward....the incubator that was started is called KYN.

As for how much creators HAVE to spend...its closer to $50 to enter your project...once the match is made with a venue, everything else is up to the creator.

for those who think that Rummell didn't / doesn't really help with One Spark, read this post from the One Spark facebook page

"We've been on the receiving end of some great coverage from the national media lately! To capitalize on this momentum, Elton Rivas and Peter Rummell have been meeting with some very notable media outlets in New York for the last two days. They've been met with an overwhelmingly positive response so far!"

from what I'm told, Rummell's comments were taken out of context

Quotefrom what I'm told, Rummell's comments were taken out of context

In this particular thread, article and case, I was under the impression the comment was in reference to would One Spark help overcoming downtown's current problems with getting redevelopment and infill off the ground. If that's the case, the quote was very accurate and isn't a slight on One Spark. The same financial gap and risky market situation that has been a stumbling block for projects like East San Marco is still a challenge that must be overcome.

Yeah, thats what confused me about this thread. I totally viewed Rummell's comments in that light, and it seemed that despite the "debate" in this thread, everybody was pretty much on the same side.

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 16, 2014, 10:18:55 PM
the incubator that was started is called KYN.

More accurately it is an accelerator. Ignite, e.g., would be an incubator.

http://www.kyn.is

Didn't really seem much like a debate in this thread but more like an agenda to me.

From the One Spark site.  Here is Peter Rummell on "Fox" news.  How quickly he the man and his experiences are eclipsing what began as an exciting idea born of coffee shop discussion.  Pay attention people.  I am sure Disney thanks him for the free advertising though.  http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/3482628169001/fmr-walt-disney-imagineering-chair-on-ride-development-one-spark/#sp=show-clips

(http://i.imgur.com/AAblT6r.jpg)

Diane...Elton was with Mr. Rummell on every stop they made in NYC....in most cases, they interviewed both

Here we go again...Diane you're clueless.  Lots of biz types watch Fox Business.  Thank you Rummell yet again for the free advertising for Jax/OneSpark.  This is no different from the single large shout out Jax got in Urban Land, ULI's official member magazine, for OneSpark.  I'm sure that publicity had to do with rummell's position as chair of the ULI foundation.

You're embarrassing yourself.

Actually, here you go again Simms Tufsu!, same song, different day. Did you guys even watch the clip before remarking?  Likely not.  But even those in marketing 101 understand that you don't sell one product by making another one (Disney) and a guy who used to work there (Rummell) the focus of the conversation.  It's basic.

Why Jacksonville do we think that a guy whose forte is "theme parks" with a staff of imagineers is the go to guy for downtown development and promoting new and bright events like One Spark?  Or perhaps the question should be do we want a city or a theme park atmosphere for Jacksonville and it's core?

So the responses begin and the dialog and tone has sadly not changed.  Those who are clueless are those who fail to recognize that looking to old standards of promotion of downtown or creation of new events to create new excitement when driven by the same old power/money folk of the past are kidding themselves.  Those who think that ignorance is speaking to the truth of the politics of the past influencing our future in all venues are in fact embracing ignorance.

Look, this is not a new response for me when it comes to pointing out how this city and it's future is manipulate by the same folks who have created the challenges we face today in Jacksonville with everything from revitalization to improving our economy to the creation of exciting and viable new ideas like One Spark.  In the last barrage of verbal attacks and defense of the status quo, I began my comments in defense of how wonderful One Spark was and how successful I saw it.  I was not pleased that the event was being viewed and excused based entirely upon how it would impact downtown revitalization.  I said over and over again how wonderful and important the event is.  Which I why I will continue to point out the obvious when it comes to how Jacksonville is run and who is running it, in the face of the constant posturing of people who consider themselves forward moving and idea folks who are now becoming heart and soul followers of the old guard and enamored by their power, money or both.

Of course fresh new ideas always sound better when the conversation is framed by an old rich conservative white guy.  How does Jacksonville move forward when even those who are supposed to get the mechanism of "organic" growth don't get it at all?  Or I guess in the case of One Spark, organic growth is appearing on the most conservative/republican FOX network.   Yes, that screams exciting and edgy new ideas.  Or Time magazine and Forbes.  Who owns and controls them?  Right now we are not "rebranding" Jacksonville through the One Spark event but rather branding it with the same old face of the conservative rich white guy.  Seriously, did Rummell fund the event or co-opt it?  Who is at the forefront now?  The folks who met in the coffee shops? The new entrepreneurs?  No.  Two years into the event creation it is now being branded the same way everything new and exciting in Jacksonville is branded, by the same old power structure which includes who controls our local politics. Two years into the birth of a new and exciting idea, we have seen the attention shift from the youthful inspirations that drove it to the same methodology which will in the end stifle rather than empower all that is creative.

Let me try to explain it you (even some of the planners who believe they know it all), this city will not be able to move forward and fulfill it's potential downtown or elsewhere if we are depending upon the same old guard to move it forward whether it be an event, development or a more open political mindset if those who want change don't understand that they are not getting that change, because they themselves want to remain followers.

What is happening on this forum?  What has happened to the open minded individuals and free thinkers?  What has happened to those who understood that changing politics is essential to changing how this city is developed.  Look, we can talk all we want about growing downtown and bettering our future but the results anyone here desires will not and cannot come with the current political landscape.  One poster said it was ignorant to tie politics to the discussion of Rummells comments on One Spark, what is ignorant is ignoring that fact.  Rummell now has his hand on the pulse of new innovation for Jacksonville and it is his presence that is now branding it.  Rummell also has his hand in the office of Mayor Alvin Brown, whose support financially and politically got him into office.  Now if anyone thinks Alvin Brown is the guy to take us forward and solve our serious financial problems, I am sorry to hear it.  He doesn't have the leadership it takes or political capital to make the needed changes in Jacksonville and solve our very serious financial difficulties.

Rummell has used his money and influence to put himself in the drivers seat of Jacksonville and folks are just so angry that I am pointing that out.  The reality however remains that everything that happens with the finances of this city is the only thing that will make the dreams of a better Jacksonville manifest and that is driven by politics and in many ways the influence of young folks with creative ideas influencing the process, not being controlled by it. 

As far as embarrassing myself Simms, that is a silly thing to say in the face of the reality that you and others just do not want to understand the entirety of what it takes to move a city forward and how the local power structure that held it back is still in control.  Now that is embarrassing, ignorant and very discouraging.  In the end it's not about your opinion of me it's about Jacksonville going forward or staying stuck in the past by looking to the same old leadership model for a new direction. 

Quote from: stephendare on April 21, 2014, 02:50:29 PM
meh.  does anyone really think that ONE SPARK is what will make or break Rummel's resume?

Im thinking the whole 'Disney Executive' is probably alot more weightier in establishing he cred. I could of course be wrong.

Dunno.  Just seems like a few more people have heard of Disney.

Exactly Stephen, but a conversation about Rummell and his Disney connections on the Fox news network does nothing to draw to Jacksonville the type of creative minded young folks that will drive Jacksonville forward.  I hardly think it could.  But that is not the entirety of what I am saying which folks are want to attack, dismiss or ignore because it challenges the "bubble mindset" that has infected so many in Jacksonville when it comes to our future potential and "real" change.  Those who understand business also understand that Disney is not the best business profile out there and is itself struggling.

This is not new to me and puts me in mind of the absolute verbal beating I took over three years ago because I dared to say that Alvin Brown was not the right guy to move our city forward, that he lacked the strength to do so along with the political power and that he was bought and supported by Peter Rummell, who is now piloting ship "One Spark"

You better than most know the conversations that have been had about our city from history to who controls it.  From potential to what stops potential becoming realized.  Right now we are coming out of an exciting event that is and was "One Spark".  I know most want me to applaud Peter Rummell for putting his money into the effort but I cannot do that because I know too well the fact that Rummells political influence/money that paved the way to put Alvin Brown in the  office of Mayor have hurt this city far more than it has helped us.  I cannot congratulate him because his influence has brought us more difficulties in city hall, our leadership and our weak financial situation than ever before.  Until we have real leadership in the office of Mayor and our financial ship is righted, we will never step out of the political and financial mire that holds us back and hinders progress.  We have a photo op mayor who has been running for re-election since he took office and whose big impact on Jacksonville has been the handing out of awards while the city is being run by the City Council.  The thing is that Rummell could have also given the money to One Spark, sat back and allowed it to evolve.  He did not do that and now has become the face of One Spark via his recent media blitz which was born of his persona and not that of One Spark.  It's the big picture that is Jacksonville that people refuse to see or even admit to which is old guard political power and influence in all things. 

Rummell's resume goes a lot further than Disney Imagineering (St. Joe, Rockefeller Center Mgmt, etc etc).

Also, Diane, I don't think you realize that Disney Imagineering is definitely entrenched in the "Creative" industry.  Lots of "techies" and creative types work there...almost exclusively, actually (considering that all of the professionals there come from some sort of engineering, marketing, or computer sciences background).

I also don't appreciate how you're really trying to play the politics card.  I understand that politics is your realm.  But Rummell/business/everything we're discussing is more than obviously not your realm.  Please understand that and quit taking this way off topic.  Come to my world, San Francisco, if you want to draw parallels and form educated conclusions.

Simms....once again.... The commentary is not playing what you are calling the "political card".  It is about showing how all things that happen in Jacksonville are at the core either driven by or co-opted by the GOB individuals and political structure that has held us back for decades.  I don't care whether or not you appreciate that fact and if I am correct you are not living in Jacksonville so remain un-impacted by what goes on here beyond commentary on our development which is fine. Politically you are firmly out of the loop.  Clearly understanding that a cities development is driven by the politics in that city is not in your realm as well. 

Hmmm.  My last two comments have not shown up on the forum though I did click the post link.  Is something quirky happening with the system?

The two points I made in response to you last post Stephen were simply this and I will make this one shorter.  Hogan has nothing to do with this discussion, period.  Alvin Brown is the mayor and it is who put him there that is part of the equation.  That would be the creator and leader of the Civic Council, Peter Rummell.

As far as this comment :

Quote
What we need is a city that supports innovation and creative types from all directions, including the old money and the conservatives, not just a few hand picked, ethically pure disciples of the age of Reason.

Disciples are awesome, but cash helps too.  And making a partnership is always better for the creatives than a schizm.

Of course supporters of all stripes are important.  The difference is that Rummell did not simply donate to "One Spark" and let it remain in the hands of those who birthed the idea and instead has put himself in a position to "control" it, how it is organized, promoted and it's future.  This all translates to the same influences that birthed the Civic Council (born of Rummell) which is nothing but old guard power and ideas that have failed Jacksonville on many important fronts. 

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
The commentary is not playing what you are calling the "political card". 

That's how everyone is reading it, Diane.  Maybe you need to work on your explanation then.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
It is about showing how all things that happen in Jacksonville are at the core either driven by or co-opted by the GOB individuals and political structure that has held us back for decades.

Everyone, do you consider Peter Rummell to be a part of the GOB that has held us back for decades?  Raise. Hands.  Now.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
if I am correct you are not living in Jacksonville so remain un-impacted by what goes on here beyond commentary on our development which is fine.

I am, however, living in San Francisco.  By default, I am forced to live and breathe this stuff everyday.  Aside from my real estate network out here, everyone I know is either working for a start-up, works for Google/Apple/Twitter/Square/insert burgeoning tech/creative firm here, or works on the funding side, whether for a tech bank, VC, etc (my roommate is friends with several higher ups including Peter Thiel and Arthur Rock and is a member of the creative-person-focused Battery Club by nature of his relationship with one of the founders).  I know a lot of scientists working bio-tech, I know a design guy at Pixar, and someone I'm dating is heavily involved in both UCSF's clinical side and research side, and was awarded $8M in funding for a project recently.  So if you must know, my "outside of Jacksonville" life is in the center of the universe for this type of thing.  My perspective is not out of line or irrelevant.  ;)

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
Clearly understanding that a cities development is driven by the politics in that city is not in your realm as well. 

I believe that understanding the basic relationship between development and local politics is more in my realm since I work in development (and real estate in general).  :)  Though I'll hand it to you, understanding politics in general is not in my realm.  But I think that speaks to your mindset.  Who cares about politics?  That's not what this thread is about.  And you're reading between a ton of lines that don't exist, and I highly doubt you know Peter Rummell personally.

I think I speak for all but one here, but I think having someone as highly accomplished as Peter Rummell, with his Disney, Arvida, Rockefeller, and St. Joe experience gives a lot more credibility to One Spark and Jacksonville to outsiders, than say a few 30 something's that aren't even that well known in their own town.

My grandfather was the first VP of hotels and restaurants at Disney and was the brainchild of their hotel development projects/plans in the early 70's. After leaving there, he could pretty much do what he wanted and was considered a rock star in his profession. By the same token, Peter Rummel has an impressive reputation from creating Celebration, chairing ULI, Disney Imagineering, etc. He's probably the closest thing Jacksonville has to a rockstar in the business world. Frankly, I can't believe we are having to defend a guy who is donating his time, money, and putting his reputation on the line to help Jacksonville and One Spark.

^^^Right?!?!  Rummell is one of a few who can be counted on one hand that has a national reputation and carries weight in the business world.  Jax is not a city that can toss these folks aside.

Quote from: simms3 on April 21, 2014, 04:07:54 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
The commentary is not playing what you are calling the "political card". 

That's how everyone is reading it, Diane.  Maybe you need to work on your explanation then.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
It is about showing how all things that happen in Jacksonville are at the core either driven by or co-opted by the GOB individuals and political structure that has held us back for decades.

Everyone, do you consider Peter Rummell to be a part of the GOB that has held us back for decades?  Raise. Hands.  Now.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
if I am correct you are not living in Jacksonville so remain un-impacted by what goes on here beyond commentary on our development which is fine.

I am, however, living in San Francisco.  By default, I am forced to live and breathe this stuff everyday.  Aside from my real estate network out here, everyone I know is either working for a start-up, works for Google/Apple/Twitter/Square/insert burgeoning tech/creative firm here, or works on the funding side, whether for a tech bank, VC, etc (my roommate is friends with several higher ups including Peter Thiel and Arthur Rock and is a member of the creative-person-focused Battery Club by nature of his relationship with one of the founders).  I know a lot of scientists working bio-tech, I know a design guy at Pixar, and someone I'm dating is heavily involved in both UCSF's clinical side and research side, and was awarded $8M in funding for a project recently.  So if you must know, my "outside of Jacksonville" life is in the center of the universe for this type of thing.  My perspective is not out of line or irrelevant.  ;)

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 03:44:33 PM
Clearly understanding that a cities development is driven by the politics in that city is not in your realm as well. 

I believe that understanding the basic relationship between development and local politics is more in my realm since I work in development (and real estate in general).  :)  Though I'll hand it to you, understanding politics in general is not in my realm.  But I think that speaks to your mindset.  Who cares about politics?  That's not what this thread is about.  And you're reading between a ton of lines that don't exist, and I highly doubt you know Peter Rummell personally.

So now you Simms know how everyone else is reading it?  lol   If you think that you would be incorrect.  I have received many private messages and emails from individuals who have be greatly heartened by my willingness to put the political aspects of what is happening in downtown into the spotlight and how even event's like One Spark are impacted by those outdated influences.  Those who agree with you to my view simply don't have the desire to step into the one sided conversation that so often seems to override openminded discussion or opinions on the forum.  I care enough about Jacksonville to weather the onslaught because if we are ever to see positive change in downtown or anywhere we have got to understand that politics drives it all.  That is the truth of the matter.

Asking for a show of hands Simms on this discussion thread is not a measure of anything with regard to who is controlling our political landscape here in Jacksonville.  Sorry, it just does not.  I have spent decades investigating the inside and out side of local politics.  I don't expect you to understand it like I do.

You are in SanFransico by choice.  We all chose where we go an why.  lmao  So the bottom line is you have a bunch of opinions of Jacksonville based on you're experiences in planning in San Francisco a city on the other side of the country.  I see, basically you are opining about a city you don't live in and are not impacted in any way by it's politics and want others to fall in line with those far away and unconnected opinions.  Got it. 

Finally, what you highly doubt about my understandings of Rummells workings in local politics has nothing to do with his personality it has to do with the actions he has undertaken that impact the local landscape of Jacksonville politically.  I know who the local political players are and he is one at the top of the list.  :)

Quote from: CityLife on April 21, 2014, 04:13:35 PM
I think I speak for all but one here, but I think having someone as highly accomplished as Peter Rummell, with his Disney, Arvida, Rockefeller, and St. Joe experience gives a lot more credibility to One Spark and Jacksonville to outsiders, than say a few 30 something's that aren't even that well known in their own town.

My grandfather was the first VP of hotels and restaurants at Disney and was the brainchild of their hotel development projects/plans in the early 70's. After leaving there, he could pretty much do what he wanted and was considered a rock star in his profession. By the same token, Peter Rummel has an impressive reputation from creating Celebration, chairing ULI, Disney Imagineering, etc. He's probably the closest thing Jacksonville has to a rockstar in the business world. Frankly, I can't believe we are having to defend a guy who is donating his time, money, and putting his reputation on the line to help Jacksonville and One Spark.

Bingo....that's the problem in a nutshell CL.  You opinion of whose impact is important.  Basically you have reinforced what I am saying.  The old white man with money and influence has more impact on our future and how we are perceived than the creative folks who spawn an idea or who those who do the hard hands on work of creating real change in Jacksonville.  Thanks for making my point all too clear. 

A background in theme parks that is ages old, has nothing to do with rebuilding a broken political landscape or a struggling downtown.  It just doesn't and it is frightening to me to see how readily so many on the forum have fallen in line with the old structures of marketing and creating vibrancy.  It hasn't worked people and you are defending what has failed us miserably for years. 

I read CL's post entirely differently...lol.

Quote from: simms3 on April 21, 2014, 04:38:45 PM
I read CL's post entirely differently...lol.

No surprise.  lol

Listen in and hear how Elton Rivas explains Rummell's involvement

http://www.wjct.org/fcc-april-17-2014/

and as for the idea that the GOB or establishment should not be running things, one could surmise that anyone over 40 is automatically disqualified.

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 21, 2014, 04:53:00 PM
Listen in and hear how Elton Rivas explains Rummell's involvement

http://www.wjct.org/fcc-april-17-2014/

and as for the idea that the GOB or establishment should not be running things, one could surmise anyone over 40 automatically disqualified.

What in the world are you talking about Tufsu?  What in this entire conversation causes one to surmise such a thing?  I know you would so love to make the discussion about anything but the reality of political influence on all things Jacksonville and who is pulling the strings.  This so called summarization is a fail I am afraid.  :)
 

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 02:41:46 PM
Why Jacksonville do we think that a guy whose forte is "theme parks" with a staff of imagineers is the go to guy for downtown development and promoting new and bright events like One Spark?  Or perhaps the question should be do we want a city or a theme park atmosphere for Jacksonville and it's core? 

Here in SF rumors just broke (literally just came to my email) that Splunk (http://www.splunk.com/), a healthcare IT startup funded by big wigs from Disney and HP, will be taking all of a 200,000 SF building going up in SoMa.  You continuously poo poo Rummell as a "Disney theme park guy with a staff of imagineers", but I don't think you know at all what that means.

Diane, no offense but offense, you're being totally naive and absurd here.

Quote from: simms3 on April 21, 2014, 05:24:25 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 02:41:46 PM
Why Jacksonville do we think that a guy whose forte is "theme parks" with a staff of imagineers is the go to guy for downtown development and promoting new and bright events like One Spark?  Or perhaps the question should be do we want a city or a theme park atmosphere for Jacksonville and it's core? 

Here in SF rumors just broke (literally just came to my email) that Splunk (http://www.splunk.com/), a healthcare IT startup funded by big wigs from Disney and HP, will be taking all of a 200,000 SF building going up in SoMa.  You continuously poo poo Rummell as a "Disney theme park guy with a staff of imagineers", but I don't think you know at all what that means.

Diane, no offense but offense, you're being totally naive and absurd here.

Sigh Simms.  You insulting me does not change the conversation at all nor does the above rumor in SF. lol  Talk to me when it is on paper and something to be realized in Jacksonville. Honesly a 200k square foot building in SoMa hasn't a darn thing to do with our city.  Now beyond that I will not entertain a tit for tat on this issue especially the reaching you and Tufsu1 are attempting in the discussion.  I have said what I had to say as someone who actually lives here in Jacksonville and has a more than average insight into local politics, how it is structured and how it works.  Seriously, I find it amusing that you think you have a handle on a community in which you do not currently live.  Now if you were boots on the ground and involved in local politics I might take the commentary more seriously. As it stands I simply cannot. 

^^^Here again you think this is all about politics.  This discussion was never once about local Jacksonville politics (a broad topic that is discussed on hundreds of other threads) until you injected politics in the discussion.  You seem to only be able to see things in terms of local Jax politics, and then you preach to the rest of us about "Business 101" etc as if you know what you're talking about there...

The fact that you can't see how my last post squashes everything you've been rambling about for the past 5 pages of this thread says one thing.  The fact that you can't see how my last post is both relevant to this discussion and relevant to your irrelevant points says another.  Please attempt to get past your narrow 1,000 ft view of Jacksonville politics and your preconceived notions about how everyone in Jax is involved in some conspiracy to hold the city back, and come up to the rest of our 30,000 ft view of how this all ties together in a bigger picture, that doesn't necessarily involve politics.  :)

Not engaging you further Simms.  No tit for tat. 

Now to the issue that Rummell tries to influence much of the direction in our city.  There is this as well.  Pay attention folks to what is going on behind the scenes when it comes to control and who is running things.    http://jaxkidsmatter.blogspot.com/2012/03/peter-rummell-goes-from-hero-to-zero.html

QuoteChris Guerrieri's Education Matters
Solutions that don't break the bank, reinvent the wheel or marginalize our teachers are within our grasp. We could have rigorous classes, safe and disciplined schools and treat teachers like valued colleagues rather than easily replaceable cogs, and we could do so tomorrow if we wanted. The cost? You demanding it. Help demand it with me.

Sparkline 1127537
Peter Rummell, goes from hero to zero
In the fall when peter Rummell crossed party lines to support Alvin Brown he was hailed as a hero who put what was best for the city over politics.

Fast-forward six months and all of a sudden he is a goat drawing the ire of Betty Burney and Jake Godbold and all because Mr. Rummell expressed concerns over the direction the school board was taking our schools.

Friends we should all have concerns with the direction the school board has been taking our schools. Betty Burney, Martha Barrett who Jake Godbold is supporting and Jake Godbld represent the status quo, which is nearly a decade of bad decisions that have hurt our city and it's children.

If it turns out Mr. Rummell has some insidious plan to take over our schools lets cross that bridge when we come to it but in the meantime lets not forget about the terrible job that the board has done and lets not give them four more years to do more damage.

Past visions....

Quote
The first baby boomers turned 60 last January,the cutting edge of what will soon be the wealthiest, healthiest, and largest group of retirees the nation has ever seen, some 78 million strong. Imagine a tidal wave of fit, tanned, sixtysomethings crashing on the nation's shores every year.

That suits Peter Rummell just fine. The former real estate guru for Disney now calls the shots at the St. Joe Company, Florida's former paper-and-timber giant that he has transformed into one of the largest coastal developers in the nation. Rummell beat the boomers to the big 6-0 by a couple of months. Tanned, fit, and with a wreath of short-cropped gray hair, he could be George C. Scott's laid-back younger brother. "We think there are enormous numbers of people getting to my age who have flexibility in their lifestyles," Rummell says. "They're not staying in Cincinnati 12 months of the year. They're looking for warmer climates, particularly Florida. It's a proven track record for 75 years."

In fact, quips Jerry Ray, St. Joe's VP for corporate communications, the entire state of Pennsylvania—that's 12 million people—will be moving to Florida in the next 25 years, according to census projections. To meet that demand, Rummell and his team are turning vast tracts of pines into tony resort developments, aimed at feeding the hearts and minds of wealthy, nature-loving second-home buyers.

So how do you squeeze all those people into a backwater chunk of Florida, once dubbed "the forgotten coast," without destroying the natural beauty that draws people to the area in the first place? The trick is planning, Rummell says, master planning, to be exact. At their showplace resort of WaterColor, about 40 miles west of Panama City, Jerry Ray proudly pointed out how far back the houses and the trademark Water-Color Inn—which looks like a large, tastefully done lifeguard station—are set behind the sugary dunes. Natural areas full of native Florida species, such as sand pines, saw palmettos, and sweet bay magnolias, are laced with biking and hiking trails that sweep around a natural coastal lake, forming a buffer zone. The houses, built like quaint bomb shelters, are designed in what the company calls Cracker Modern, or where redneck Florida meets rich, tasteful Nantucket. While it's more spread out than the groundbreaking New Urbanism development of Seaside—the idyllic backdrop for The Truman Show just next door—many of the concepts are the same: Make it walkable with everything one could need within a ten-minute stroll, protect natural areas like the beach and lake and make them community amenities, get people to park their cars and leave them idle for their entire stay.

Such concepts were reinforced after Rummell took a tour of Mississippi beach towns devastated by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita last year. Rummell was surprised to see newer gas stations and grocery stores relatively unscathed while the older homes and cottages got hammered. "It was apparent that the quality of construction makes an enormous difference," he says.

With more than 300,000 acres in the coastal zone, a market capitalization of 4.5 billion dollars, and plenty of political clout, St. Joe can do what other developers only dream about. In one section of Gulf County, the company is moving 13 miles of U.S. Highway 98, which currently runs through Joe lands right along the Gulf, a few miles inland. The public gets a new flood-protected four lane and the longest shoreside bike trail in the state, while St. Joe gets miles of secluded beachfront acreage. In Bay County, the company has donated 4,000 acres to build a controversial regional airport to service its future homeowners, while setting aside almost 10,000 acres as a conservation buffer zone around nearby West Bay, important habitat for migratory songbirds such as scarlet tanagers and Kentucky warblers.

Not everyone is thrilled with St. Joe's vision. Environmental groups recently won a temporary injunction against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for granting the company an unprecedented permit to develop nearly 50,000 acres on the shores of three coastal bays that would destroy 1,500 acres of wetlands, even though the company had promised to mitigate that loss by creating or enhancing more wetlands elsewhere.

"Wetlands are not widgets," says Melanie Shephardson, staff attorney for the Natural

Resources Defense Council, one of the groups that filed the suit. "They serve different functions. Just setting aside some acreage and buffers might sound good, but at the end of the day you have to make sure that these bays, with all their species diversity, are not going to be harmed."

The injunction, which halted some work on one of the company's developments, makes Rummell fume. "There are still people scared of growth," he says. "But it gets back to our vision of what the world is going to look like in thirty years. I want this part of Florida to be a better version of itself. It would be a shame if it got high-rised to death. I would declare success if ten years from now someone says this looks like it should be here. In the real estate world, that's hard to do."

In the aquatic world, that's hard to do too.

Quotehttp://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/2006/07/american-coasts/bourne-text

You've literally gone from injecting politics into this (usually somewhat harmless if not annoying) and claiming some conspiracy theory that Rummell is involved in with the "GOB", to now posting articles that have *no relevance* in an extremely blatant attempt to discredit his person based on affiliations (the Rotary Club is now a bad affiliation??) and a past scandal involving a prostitute (who hasn't had an escort scandal nowadays??).

You are kind of despicable.  And there is reason that mods are deleting your posts.  They are counter-productive, off-topic, "trolling" posts.

Stephen, to me what is discouraging is the unwillingness or inability of folks to understand the fact that politics drives Jacksonville in all things and Peter Rummell is a powerful political player.  I have deleted no posts by the way.  I think when a person resorts to name calling they are out of real conversation points.  That happens too often in this type of format.  As far as the troll comment, that is both humorous and sad.  lol  Perhaps another thread can be started to discuss how certain political players impact the direction of our city from events to downtown revitalization. 

Stephen, this thread began with Rummell/One Spark and downtown development.  Is it your position that politics is not at play in what happens downtown?  How is looking at that reality discouraging or more discouraging than Rummells own declaration on the heels of a successful "One Spark" that it will not be a turning point for downtown when no one expected it would?  The reason it isn't a turning point of course is that as in Rummells own words, it will take incentives to make the needed changes downtown and that is born of approval of local politicians and our city budget.

I do find the level of some of the discussion and tone discouraging to me after so many years in the local mix. We have got to be able to discuss all views and insights openly.  Why so often does it become and us against them or person on person debate along with name calling in the face of all that is facing our city?  That discourages me greatly. 

Quote from: simms3 on April 21, 2014, 04:38:45 PM
I read CL's post entirely differently...lol.

I think most people also will, which I why I won't even bother with it.

Hate on....

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 06:20:58 PM
I do find the level of some of the discussion and tone discouraging to me after so many years in the local mix. We have got to be able to discuss all views and insights openly.  Why so often does it become and us against them or person on person debate along with name calling in the face of all that is facing our city?  That discourages me greatly.

You might want to go re-read the thread and then re-read the above statement.

Quote from: CityLife on April 21, 2014, 06:41:23 PM


You might want to go re-read the thread and then re-read the above statement.

It's a times like this I ask myself why bother, but it's also at times like this that I understand how very important it is to wake people up to what is happening around them and why.  Clearly that makes some very uncomfortable but I am not going to worry about that, I can't and I wont.  ;)  Especially when it comes to debating online phantoms as opposed to people who value their views enough that they will post and debate under their own name.  I tend to pay little attention to the man/woman behind the curtain but rather have more interest in the words and ideas of those wiling to identify themselves.  It's a quirk of mine.

^^^^Your delusions aren't fooling the rest of us, though we might be able to read/comprehend them better if you knew how to properly post.  I've seen you completely edit your posts out of existence before (like one post above where you changed the Rotary Club story to something different altogether), but in this case you should edit the post above so that your post isn't confused with CityLife's (I can imagine he/she wouldn't appreciate that so much).

This is important so that people aren't misquoted.

Quote from: simms3 on April 21, 2014, 06:51:39 PM
^^^^Your delusions aren't fooling the rest of us, though we might be able to read/comprehend them better if you knew how to properly post.  I've seen you completely edit your posts out of existence before (like one post above where you changed the Rotary Club story to something different altogether), but in this case you should edit the post above so that your post isn't confused with CityLife's (I can imagine he/she wouldn't appreciate that so much).

This is important so that people aren't misquoted.

tit for tat.  Not playing.  ;)

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 06:48:18 PM

Quote from: CityLife on April 21, 2014, 06:41:23 PM


You might want to go re-read the thread and then re-read the above statement.

It's a times like this I ask myself why bother, but it's also at times like this that I understand how very important it is to wake people up to what is happening around them and why.  Clearly that makes some very uncomfortable but I am not going to worry about that, I can't and I wont.  ;)  Especially when it comes to debating online phantoms as opposed to people who value their views enough that they will post and debate under their own name.  I tend to pay little attention to the man/woman behind the curtain but rather have more interest in the words and ideas of those wiling to identify themselves.  It's a quirk of mine.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 06:48:18 PM

Quote from: CityLife on April 21, 2014, 06:41:23 PM


You might want to go re-read the thread and then re-read the above statement.

It's a times like this I ask myself why bother, but it's also at times like this that I understand how very important it is to wake people up to what is happening around them and why.  Clearly that makes some very uncomfortable but I am not going to worry about that, I can't and I wont.  ;)  Especially when it comes to debating online phantoms as opposed to people who value their views enough that they will post and debate under their own name.  I tend to pay little attention to the man/woman behind the curtain but rather have more interest in the words and ideas of those wiling to identify themselves.  It's a quirk of mine.

Just to be clear you and I aren't debating anything....and I like many posters gain nothing by self promoting myself on here and prefer to remain relatively anonymous, though several posters know who I am.

Keep calm and post on.

It's not about self promotion.  It's about a willingness to put your name behind your views instead of hiding behind an online moniker.  It's easier to excuse that by claiming you don't like self promotion.  That is not in the equation here.

There are a handful of well known and respected posters here whose words are backed up by their own efforts that created more than street credit when it comes to their opinions and views.  A dialog with them is worth the time, but as I said earlier, dialoging with phantoms is often not worth the time or aggravation.  Say what you mean and mean what you say by putting your own name behind your words and opinions.  I well know all of the arguments behind not doing that and to my eye, in the end those arguments fall flat when it comes to making a case on any issue.  But then again that's just me and my opinion.  I try and post accordingly, it doesn't always work though. lol

I just threw up in my mouth listening to Simms and his immature venomous drivel...CC is easily one of the nicest people on here, and only a person like Simms would annoy her...Simms's obvious trolling goes totally unchecked around here for some reason. He is obviously buddies with some mods on here, SMH...

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 05:51:25 PM
Now to the issue that Rummell tries to influence much of the direction in our city.  There is this as well.  Pay attention folks to what is going on behind the scenes when it comes to control and who is running things.    http://jaxkidsmatter.blogspot.com/2012/03/peter-rummell-goes-from-hero-to-zero.html

so....guess I don't see a problem with a resident of this city working to make it better in their own eyes...isn't that what many of us are doing?

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 21, 2014, 09:56:15 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 05:51:25 PM
Now to the issue that Rummell tries to influence much of the direction in our city.  There is this as well.  Pay attention folks to what is going on behind the scenes when it comes to control and who is running things.    http://jaxkidsmatter.blogspot.com/2012/03/peter-rummell-goes-from-hero-to-zero.html

so....guess I don't see a problem with a resident of this city working to make it better in their own eyes...isn't that what many of us are doing?

The difference is that like it or not you are powerless to make any real changes without political and financial power behind you Tufsu!.  Rummell on the other hand is able to wield that power. The difference is huge.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 10:25:50 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 21, 2014, 09:56:15 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 05:51:25 PM
Now to the issue that Rummell tries to influence much of the direction in our city.  There is this as well.  Pay attention folks to what is going on behind the scenes when it comes to control and who is running things.    http://jaxkidsmatter.blogspot.com/2012/03/peter-rummell-goes-from-hero-to-zero.html

so....guess I don't see a problem with a resident of this city working to make it better in their own eyes...isn't that what many of us are doing?

The difference is that like it or not you are powerless to make any real changes without political and financial power behind you Tufsu!.  Rummell on the other hand is able to wield that power. The difference is huge.

See below from what now seems like a million years ago since I'm so drained from this thread!

Quote from: simms3 on April 16, 2014, 11:33:44 AM
Also, *if* Rummell's primary goal is to receive public financing or funding down the road for his dream downtown project (whatever that is), ok?  Every city has governments influenced by powerful deep-pocketed interests.  Seriously?  I'd rather have the city cow-towing to a guy like Rummell than your average local SS stick subdivision developer or a guy like Toney Sleiman.  Wouldn't we all?

And contrary to my former quote that Diane has been dragging on for the past 5 pages (well now it would be 6), she has actually been terrorizing this thread since Page 2!!!!  WTF

47 of 97 posts.  Yes.  Someone should now do a word count.

And nobody ever commented, but DeadGirlsDontDance had one of the more interesting posts I've heard in a while:

Quote from: DeadGirlsDontDance on April 16, 2014, 04:47:01 PM
I don't think there's much danger of gentrification downtown, One Spark or no One Spark. Gentrification is an organic process that cannot be forced, because of the way it works. Here's a brief summary of how an area becomes gentrified.

Step One: People who have almost nothing but imagination and energy start moving into a run-down area, drawn by dirt-cheap rent, and lack of interference from finicky landlords, inflexible regulatory bodies, and whiny neighbors.

Step Two: Not gonna happen in downtown Jacksonville. See step one.

I actually really really loved it when I first read it...I thought it was appropriately witty, and absolutely correct.

I would imagine you are exhausted Simms.  Throwing insults and painting commentary as "terrorizing" because you can't keep up or don't understand how the landscape of everything in Jacksonville is tied to politics is just plain silly and I can imagine draining.   ::) Time to give it up and move on. 

I will agree though with regard to DGDD.  She offered a worthwhile view and insight.  :)

Quote from: simms3 on April 15, 2014, 09:35:46 PM
It sounds like what it boils down to is Rummell is looking for a vehicle to bring forth downtown revitalization, and perhaps in the long term look for some sort of profit.  I can relate.


Let's not forget that Rummell once helmed Disney Imagineering.

I would have been remiss had I not commented on this one Simms.  ;D  I've got a vehicle for him and for the whole city, it's called STREETCAR!

...And Disney has several!  ;)  Perhaps we should speak with him???

What do you think CC?

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 10:25:50 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on April 21, 2014, 09:56:15 PM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 21, 2014, 05:51:25 PM
Now to the issue that Rummell tries to influence much of the direction in our city.  There is this as well.  Pay attention folks to what is going on behind the scenes when it comes to control and who is running things.    http://jaxkidsmatter.blogspot.com/2012/03/peter-rummell-goes-from-hero-to-zero.html

so....guess I don't see a problem with a resident of this city working to make it better in their own eyes...isn't that what many of us are doing?

The difference is that like it or not you are powerless to make any real changes without political and financial power behind you Tufsu!.  Rummell on the other hand is able to wield that power. The difference is huge.

I disagree...some of the people on this site (including myself) have been able to effect change in this community on several fronts.  The results are popping up all over the urban core.  Many of us have no problem speaking with members of City Council and/or members of the Mayor's staff.  And we've done it all without being bankrolled.

I fully acknowledge that many people on this site have been able to effect change in Jacksonville.  My response was directly to you.  However, if you have been able to be a part of positive change I applaud you.  Sincerely. 

Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 22, 2014, 05:04:45 AM

Quote from: simms3 on April 15, 2014, 09:35:46 PM
It sounds like what it boils down to is Rummell is looking for a vehicle to bring forth downtown revitalization, and perhaps in the long term look for some sort of profit.  I can relate.


Let's not forget that Rummell once helmed Disney Imagineering.

I would have been remiss had I not commented on this one Simms.  ;D  I've got a vehicle for him and for the whole city, it's called STREETCAR!

...And Disney has several!  ;)  Perhaps we should speak with him???

What do you think CC?

Well you know I adore streetcars.  :) 

Meh. As in all things Stephen, I respect your right to your opinion, however this was and is not about slinging mud it's about the reality of special interest influences in our city.  Now to the issue of inserting the names of others who I may know connected to politics in order to make some sort of bizarre point or to agitate, well that is just foolishness. They were not a part of the original post and completely irrelevant to it.   My words are mine and not to be measured by my friends in politics.  :)  Of course you know all of this but the need to stay on point in your support of Rummell and ignore the politics of his support is noted.  ;)

Quote from: stephendare on April 22, 2014, 11:42:27 AM
meh.  this seems like much ado about nothing Diane.

And its not very considerate to sling mud at this man because he bankrolled the man who beat your horrible candidate for mayor last time around in this context. (a thread about the One Spark Festival)

Criticizing and disempowering people right in the middle of doing something good for the community, like this festival is in poor taste, and while I look forward to working with you to find a viable alternative to Mayor Brown, I criticize you for using the work of Elton and so many hundreds of other people as a forum to criticize pete rummel, who is actively changing the ground game for artists.

This is something that has never occurred to you or your group of friends and associates.  Not a single one of them has ever championed the idea of funding creative types, and in several cases Glorious spoke but did nothing for the arts.

Rummel is doing something wonderful and his example should be followed, not mocked.

And sitting around casting stones at a man who is actually (not with fine words only) helping this community isnt a terribly good reason for anyone else to do the same.

After all, if you are going to get called an asshole no matter what, why bother anyways?

There used to be a universally observed moratorium on criticism during acts of civic betterment.  You know, leave the politics alone and lets celebrate the things that we can agree on and do together.

This is the opposite of that. 

The artists and creative types are pretty grateful for the support from Rummel.  And thats not a factoid that I made up out of my posterior, thats from actually asking around and getting the pulse of this.

So while there might be some pretty good contexts to criticise him, I think that you are probably going to have an epic fail advancing your arguments if this is the beginning of your Yellow Brick Road.

Save some of your energy for a viable alternative to Brown.

But dont tear him down before you have a better alternative than Ole Clinic Bombing Hogan. ;)

There have to be better ways of creating consensus for your many worthwhile points and aims.

I agree with Stephens post.  We have heard your points about Mr Rummel and understand your paranoia about rich old white guys... it is a fairly constant drumbeat heard here but it is probably time to stop now...   I wonder why Elton and other organizers have not mentioned any wariness of Mr Rummels motives...

^^most likely because they are young creative young minds and understand that money and politics is necessary evil for most widespread successes.  Not sure the paranoia about Rummell perhaps seeking some incentives in the future. All the while Mr. Sleiman ( I use the term Mr. hesitantly) who endorsed Cat's choice for mayor has stood with his hands wide open for years.

^ and now that he is reading the tea leaves differently, Sleiman is putting his $ behind Mayor Brown...and I'm sure that is purely for the selfless benefit of the city as a whole.

QuoteBridgetroll  I agree with Stephens post.  We have heard your points about Mr Rummel and understand your paranoia about rich old white guys... it is a fairly constant drumbeat heard here but it is probably time to stop now...   I wonder why Elton and other organizers have not mentioned any wariness of Mr Rummels motives...

Quote

Sigh BT, there is no paranoia of rich old white guys....none.  Trying to put this frame around my commentary is a complete miss, but you already know that.   My commentary is about the influence of special interests in our city at all levels and how that impacts all that goes on here. It is also about the reality that the GOB system is alive and well in Jacksonville and will readily tap exciting new ideas and make them their own.  There is always an agenda.  Take that as you wish. ;)  In the history of Jacksonville however the GOB influence has not been altogether healthy and I will continue to remind folks of that because our political environment is not a healthy one.  It will remain that way until we are willing to even discuss the negatives as well as the positives of doing things in a manner that says, business as usual.  I understand that is uncomfortable reality for some. :)  Beyond that nothing remains to be said on this thread to my view, unless of course another individual trying to make some ground in attacking my views, decides to frame them in a manner that is without validity or truth. 

Invoking Elton's thoughts on the matter considering he has not commented on this thread is really of no importance to this particular dialog.  If he chimes in then we will know his views. My guess would be the politics of this does not concern him and it probably shouldn't.  :)

CC,

1) Please, please, please learn how to quote properly.  Look at your quote above and look at other people's re-quotes.  Your's consistently somehow F up and cannot be requoted (is that on purpose)?.  If you are going to post as often and thoroughly as you do, please learn how to actually post correctly.  Mods should be on you for being a perennial offender of posting etiquette (bc it's etiquette at this point and you can't claim naivety/being a novice with 2,734 posts).

2) You keep acting as if Jax is unique in having "special interests".  Please travel more or live elsewhere to gain perspective.  I've actually seen the opposite, as well.  Here in CA, and more specifically SF (for major cities, but Menlo Park, Malibu, and Berkeley would be smaller examples) are cities where anything and everything gets put to ballot for popular vote.  What a clusterf**k that can be!!  I blame the city's unaffordability and housing crisis on the mass stupidity of the overly prominent activist community here who is confusing causation with correlation and blaming rising prices on new supply!  But they get to vote on every little thing (actually the reason the Warriors moved locations).  So to that end, cities with strong private sector leaders such as Rummell are a very happy medium between being run entirely by political hacks or being overrun by mob rule.

3) Is it not possible to you that "special interests" can be a positive for the city?  Would you claim that Hogan or any other candidate you've ever supported is not backed by any special interests?  (ahem the Hogan -  Sleiman connection)

4) If there is one major new thing I've learned in my life in the past 12 months, it's that having a little grey hair in the room can be a very positive thing.  Your constant criticisms of "old white men" falls on deaf ears here (well I can take race out of it, and gender as well).  "Old" people have good perspective on things that young/"energetic" people don't necessarily have.

Quote from: simms3 on April 22, 2014, 03:59:10 PM
CC,

1) Please, please, please learn how to quote properly.  Look at your quote above and look at other people's re-quotes.  Your's consistently somehow F up and cannot be requoted (is that on purpose)?.  If you are going to post as often and thoroughly as you do, please learn how to actually post correctly.  Mods should be on you for being a perennial offender of posting etiquette (bc it's etiquette at this point and you can't claim naivety/being a novice with 2,734 posts).

I'll properly quote myself to provide an example.  ;)  but I wanted to also add to this point with another, and you'll see why I quoted myself rather than edited my previous post (didn't want to appear hypocritical).

But you edit probably a good 75-90% of your posts.  I've even noticed timestamps that are wayyy later than your initial post.  This is poor etiquette.  Perhaps choose your words more wisely the first time around, or perhaps have the attitude that I have - that you should just let it out and stand by what you say (your stated mantra right?).  It's unfair to the rest of us when you go back do-over all of your statements.  If you were a newbie, I would forgive you.  But you have more posts than I do and I've been on/off these boards since 2005/2006 when it was metjax.com.

Ah, back to the tit for tat approach.  I am not going to engage you Simm's beyond reminding you that you are wasting your time with the attempts to chide/insult.  Not interested.  ;)  Make it easy on yourself and simply use the "block" function available on this site.  That should solve your problem.

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 22, 2014, 03:34:27 PM

QuoteBridgetroll  I agree with Stephens post.  We have heard your points about Mr Rummel and understand your paranoia about rich old white guys... it is a fairly constant drumbeat heard here but it is probably time to stop now...   I wonder why Elton and other organizers have not mentioned any wariness of Mr Rummels motives...

Quote

Sigh BT, there is no paranoia of rich old white guys....none.  Trying to put this frame around my commentary is a complete miss, but you already know that.   My commentary is about the influence of special interests in our city at all levels and how that impacts all that goes on here. It is also about the reality that the GOB system is alive and well in Jacksonville and will readily tap exciting new ideas and make them their own.  There is always an agenda.  Take that as you wish. ;)  In the history of Jacksonville however the GOB influence has not been altogether healthy and I will continue to remind folks of that because our political environment is not a healthy one.  It will remain that way until we are willing to even discuss the negatives as well as the positives of doing things in a manner that says, business as usual.  I understand that is uncomfortable reality for some. :)  Beyond that nothing remains to be said on this thread to my view, unless of course another individual trying to make some ground in attacking my views, decides to frame them in a manner that is without validity or truth. 

Invoking Elton's thoughts on the matter considering he has not commented on this thread is really of no importance to this particular dialog.  If he chimes in then we will know his views. My guess would be the politics of this does not concern him and it probably shouldn't.  :)

You say... "there is always an agenda".  Really?  Always?  Be careful with Never and Always.  Perhaps the agenda here is to provide funding to a really good idea... or provide some muscle behind the idea.  I invoke Eltons "thoughts" because they are apparently 180 degrees from your own.  Perhaps he and the others are as naïve as you claim the rest of us are.  Or perhaps there is some quid pro quo between the parties... Eltons silence tells me he and others are comfortable with Rummels contributions and are probably hoping for more.

The use of the word "agenda" is not as a negative.  There are good agenda's, bad agenda's and world of other things between that.  Simple semantics.  :)

By Roger Bull Sat, May 31, 2014 @ 4:42 pm | updated Sat, May 31, 2014 @ 5:27 pm

QuoteBeaver Street Enterprise Center helps build new businesses in Jacksonville

QuoteThey seem to be the buzz words for business these days — startup, incubator, accelerator. But before One Spark, before CoWork Jax, KYN and talk of other efforts to nurture new businesses ... there was the Beaver Street Enterprise Center.

Somehow, One Spark, deemed itself the only business incubator in the world, and most of Jacksonville thought it was the best way to help small businesses. Well guess what ostriches? Beaver Street Enterprise Center has been helping people start new businesses for over 10 years now.

QuoteFormed in 2003, the center is usually home to about 18 businesses at a time who spend anywhere from one to three years getting established.

In 2010, it was named incubator of the year by the National Business Incubation Association.

In case you're wondering exactly what an incubator is, it simply means helping new businesses get going well enough to move out on their own.

"If you have a business idea, you come to me," said Jackie Perry, the center's executive director. "One of the things we do is help you explore that idea."

But the center only accepts companies that have a business plan; some may have a customer or two. They're not just looking for ideas.

"Our sweet spot," Perry said, "is companies that will grow jobs. That's what we really want."

There are limits, though.

"Nothing smelly or noisy," she said. "No retail or day care."

She said about half the applicants are accepted, which means furnished office space, ranging from 115 to 3,000 square feet, with rents running $275 to $3,000 a month.

"And you don't have to shop for Internet, phone, we've got meeting rooms, fax, copiers," she said. "It's more like plug and play, so you can concentrate on this business."

There's help, of course — classes, mentors, even a loan program.

Six years ago, it started a shared-space program where business owners gets their own desk and phone, but don't have them full time. For $200, a business owner can use his desk or just hang for 40 hours a month.

"The biggest thing that I hear about the incubator," Perry said, "is hanging around the break room talking to other business owners."

William Almas agreed.

"There's a lot of cross-fertilization that goes on between all the small businesses that are in there," he said. "They're at different stages of growth. I see that discussion as being the main selling point."

Almas was just looking for an office when he moved his B3 Solutions into Beaver Street in 2006.

His business, which sends his employees into government offices to provide managerial and logistical support, was about three years old. But he still didn't have an office.

"Some people are skeptical of giving a large contract to someone operating out of their home," he said. "There are some negative connotations to that."

He used the accounting support at Beaver Street and attended classes for CEOs.

Almost all of Almas' employees work onsite with the government, but he still has three offices of his own: Jacksonville, Washington, D.C., and Alexandria, Va. And he's kept his Jacksonville office at Beaver Street.

"I guess it's because that's where we started and grew," he said. "I don't know if I want to say it's loyalty. It's comfortable and it's still working for us."

He's also hesitant to give the center credit for his success.

"Companies grow because their employees are performing and customers are happy," he said. "But it did allow us to project more professional appearance to our clients."

The center's operating budget is $728,000. The state provides 62 percent of that, with tenant revenues paying 22 percent and sponsorship the final 16 percent.

But now it's spending about $2 million to renovate an old warehouse right across Blanche Street. The plan, Perry said, is that graduates of the center could set up shop there and expand even further.

"Maybe they've made their first million, but still need to stabilize," she said.

Rummell would be wise to invest his monies into a business that is generating returns in the local community, such as this one. Who knows, maybe he is. Good local story of helping businesses. One Spark is not the only game in town, it was just the only one that setup shop in downtown.