QuoteGOAL Build a new cruise ship terminal to attract more lines operating bigger vessels.
By TIMOTHY J. GIBBONS, The Times-Union
The Jacksonville Port Authority agreed Monday to purchase about 4 acres of land in Mayport that will allow it to move forward with building a cruise terminal in the village.
The port still needs to buy a 3.3-acre slice of waterfront land in order to put its plans into effect but said Monday it was negotiating with the owners.
The purchased property- 2.09 acres owned by the Roland family and 2.29 acres owned by Vestcor Cos. - sits along the river between the St. Johns River Ferry dock and the Coast Guard station. The Port Authority paid just over $9 million for the land.
The plot being negotiated for, owned by Safe Harbor Seafood, would actually house the terminal as well as a parking garage. Part of the Roland property would serve as a baggage-handling and entrance area.
The entire terminal would take up less than 8 acres, far smaller than the 40 acres the current terminal now occupies. Instead, the port would go vertical, building a two-story terminal and a five-story parking garage in the area near the curve of Ocean Street.
full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/042908/met_273217766.shtml
This cruise port terminal will suck up most of the Mayport waterfront. I hope it includes space for a few shops and restaurants at street level, along with space for shrimping boats.
You're right about the riverfront being swallowed up. Although I'm sad to see the potential demise of the sleepy fishing village's heritage, it looks to be the dawn of a new age for Mayport. Hopefully its charm can be saved and its history integrated into the terminal with a mix of old and new.
I'm sure the homeowners won't likely mind the added property value though.
Quote"When somebody says, 'Oh my God, we'll ruin the ambience of the village,' that person can't have driven out there in the past 15 years," said John Meserve, who helped found the Waterfront Partnership in 1997 before stepping down in 2006 to act as an unpaid "agent" for Vestcor and its land interests at Mayport village.
"There is no ambience of the village in the commercial sector. It's a bunch of torn-down buildings and junk. ... It [the commercial area] has an abandoned look of a dead village," Meserve said.
This hasnt been my impression of Mayport. Maybe I havent seen all of it. Where exactly are they putting the terminal, at the end of Ocean St?
QuoteThe entire terminal would take up less than 8 acres, far smaller than the 40 acres the current terminal now occupies. Instead, the port would go vertical, building a two-story terminal and a five-story parking garage in the area near the curve of Ocean Street.
what a concept.
Quote from: Steve on April 29, 2008, 10:36:41 AM
QuoteThe entire terminal would take up less than 8 acres, far smaller than the 40 acres the current terminal now occupies. Instead, the port would go vertical, building a two-story terminal and a five-story parking garage in the area near the curve of Ocean Street.
what a concept.
I understand why the Mayport site was chosen, but too bad its not in or near downtown.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4540-p1090741.JPG)
Plenty of vacant buildings now along Ocean Street in Mayport. It looks like a disaster took out the river side of Ocean Street in some areas!
The people of Mayprt could be sitting on a gold mine if they play it right. Turn that quaint villiage into a place for people to walk around and spend money in shops and boutiques. A trolley to a "shrimp museum" and restaurants etc...
Vestcor did try to turn Mayport into a quaint village before the market tanked. I just hope that JPA does a good job in the layout and design of the cruise terminal. Although, I still think it is a poor place for the terminal because of a lack of infrastructure and proximity to downtown. Good to be back guys!
Welcome back wolfdawg54. Its going to be interesting to see how the port authority attempts to fit in with historic Mayport.
LANCE! Where have you been???
PS-This is David
Quote from: wolfdawg54 on July 15, 2008, 12:00:48 AM
Vestcor did try to turn Mayport into a quaint village before the market tanked. I just hope that JPA does a good job in the layout and design of the cruise terminal. Although, I still think it is a poor place for the terminal because of a lack of infrastructure and proximity to downtown. Good to be back guys!
The problem with a terminal downtown is the same problem with the current terminal. Bridges. Modern cruise ships cannot get under our bridges. In addition cruise ships like to be close to open waters. A long slow cruise up the river to downtown costs money and time.
QuoteModern cruise ships cannot get under our bridges.
Unless, they went for a smaller niche market. Unfortunately, you can come to Jax to take a cruise and not even come within 10 miles of the core. I'm on the fence with the decision to build in Mayport, but if designed right, its more appealing than the site they are currently located at.
If only they could put it in enormous Mill Cove along Ft. Caroline Road. They laso could've made the Dames Point Bridge a lot higher, but they wanted to go cheap route, and it somewhat screwed us over, especially Tallyrand Terminal.
For what it cost to build that bridge, a short tunnel under the chanel with concrete trestle leading up to the tunel on each side could have probably been built.
I love that bridge but it is a serious hinderance for our port.
They should've seriously thought of a way to play with Mill Cove. I guess environmentalists would've bitched too much, like everything else they do.
If the bridge was higher or whatever route, the only ships that wouldn't be allowed would be Super Tankers.
I too have mixed feelings about Mayport. Once again in a city where everything is so spead out another major draw has to be put into a remote location miles from downtown. I guess to an extent geography has won out.
Which my sig. fully explains, lol.
For once the city is thinking ahead and guess what, half the community wants to burn them at the stake. Unreal. So heres a clip from Los Angeles Port News for you to consider:QuoteWhen the massive Queen Mary 2 visited the Port of Los Angeles last year, the captain of what was then the world's biggest cruise liner had to take an unusual tack.
Reaching 235 feet in height, the luxurious Cunard liner was unable to fit under the harbor's Vincent Thomas Bridge to reach a basin to turn around, so the 154,400-ton ship had to sail down the port's main channel backward to reach the cruise ship terminal.
It's the kind of maneuver that makes the Los Angeles harbor unappealing to the growing numbers of mega-ships coming on line, of which the Queen Mary 2 was one of the first.
While we might not be on the QMII radar... YET... We certainly don't have a shot if we do this downtown. With the new Panamax ships coming online around the world this isn't just about freight or passengers anymore. it's ALL new ships. Why built a 230 foot side wheeled steamer when we can build them 1,000 feet long? Lower costs all around. But our brains at FDOT back in the day, set the height of the Dames Point Bridge at 175 feet. DUH? Most of the newbies are coming online at 200' high or more, including our resident Carnival liners. So forget downtown unless we want to always be the tiny fish in the Port game. Then what happens when economics - fuel - etc. drive the smaller ships to the scrap yard? Does our port go with it? The real question should be, how do we raise the Broward Bridge or do we Tunnel? OCKLAWAHA
Another issue I forgot was the depth of the channel... even if they could fit under the bridges the drafts of these vessels may be such that extensive dredging is required.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on July 15, 2008, 10:15:01 AM
The problem with a terminal downtown is the same problem with the current terminal. Bridges. Modern cruise ships cannot get under our bridges. In addition cruise ships like to be close to open waters. A long slow cruise up the river to downtown costs money and time.
I definitely agree that the bridges are an issue. I think that there are a multitude of other sites that are closer to downtown, more easily accessible from the major thoroughfares, and will allow for future expansions. I believe that Mill Cove is an option, as well as Blount Island. Freighters sit lower in the water than cruise ships because of the purpose that they serve. If need be, the docks can transferred to the opposite side of the Dames Point Bridge to make room for the cruise vessels. There is also land near the shipyards where the river turns before nearing Mayport. I would like the cruise terminal to become very successful for the city, and I simply do not think that a terminal squished onto eight acres in Mayport village is the best option.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on July 15, 2008, 09:51:33 AM
LANCE! Where have you been???
PS-This is David
Hey Buddy! I know, it has been a while. I guess architecture school is a little busy, so I have not been able to check in as much as I would like. By the way, are you in town?
Here's my thing on the bridges - there is only one in the way (I don't see a terminal south of the Mathews. Given our geography (it's an extra full day to the caribbean than from Miami/Ft. Lauderdale), how many of the big ships are we REALLY a candidate to get?
Yeah the Caribbean is another day away but people comming in from across the southeast are closer to Jax than they are Port Canaveral/FTL/Miami/Tampa. Once your on the ship you tend not to worry about where exactly its going or when you'll get there.
Bermuda, Coastal...Savannah, Charleston etc... and Trans-Atlantic is more of our long-term market. Miami can have the Tropics. We're bound to pick some of that buisiness off too.
The sense in Mayport, is:
Close to the ocean
easy in, easy out
close to Bermuda
no bridges
majior port = services available
Blount Island is a Marine Corps weapons depot, not the sort of place you want passengers. But the biggest argument is the economy of scale. Those who say why not just go with little ships in downtown, because they don't think we'll ever get any destinations... Trouble is, as scale replaces the little ships, we'll have a downtown port built for clipper ships in the age of starships? Museum maybe?
OCKLAWAHA