Landing Millennials Into Downtown
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Thoughts on reconstructing the Jacksonville Landing and how this can be used to attract millennials to Downtown and Jacksonville.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-apr-landing-millennials-into-downtown
More residentials in downtown is good. Making downtown like Riverside? Not so good.
I understand the appeal the interview speaks to, but the city has already torn down a majority of the "character" buildings that would support that, therefore a new character will have to be developed from scratch.
QuoteIt seems we need to push Downtown to become more, dare I say it, Riverside-esque. Riverside sits close to my heart not due to growing up in this side of town, but from the collection of people. Riverside always seemed to have a welcoming vibe to it along with an eclectic group of friendly individuals. It is filled with shops that thrive if it knows how to cater to its audience.
This does not sound as if the writer is talking about making DT like Riverside, in terms of architecture or built environment. Instead, it sounds like he's describing the what Riverside has and DT lacks........vibrancy. In that sense, yes, downtown does need a "welcoming vibe" to it as well as additional businesses "that thrive" and cater to "its audience".
I'd add that they also need some stronger connectivity, along with connectivity to other central neighborhoods, so they all can better feed off and complement each other.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 11, 2014, 07:38:40 AM
I'd add that they also need some stronger connectivity, along with connectivity to other central neighborhoods, so they call can better feed off and complement each other.
This is huge in my opinion. Connecting San Marco, Springfield, and R/A and fostering QOL improvements in those neighborhoods would be the biggest boost to a long sustainable and active downtown.
Also, I think we should guard against the "privatization" of the river. The public needs to be able to have venues available on the river to spend time. I know we have the northbank river walk, but the part down by Berkman now is unwelcoming. A successful shipyards development will help, but if it is also only private residences on it, there still won't be much there for the public.
Forget putting racing stripes on parking garages or buildings, what Jacksonville needs downtown is more residents, pure, plain and simple. Build complexes or use the spaces that exist for more spaces for youth, aka Barnett, if it comes to fruition, but you need more people downtown to have ANY and I mean ANY hope of new businesses from outside of Jacksonville coming to roost downtown.
All of downtown's woes could be cured with 10,000 more residents. EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM!
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 11, 2014, 09:39:32 PM
Forget putting racing stripes on parking garages or buildings, what Jacksonville needs downtown is more residents, pure, plain and simple. Build complexes or use the spaces that exist for more spaces for youth, aka Barnett, if it comes to fruition, but you need more people downtown to have ANY and I mean ANY hope of new businesses from outside of Jacksonville coming to roost downtown.
All of downtown's woes could be cured with 10,000 more residents. EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM!
+1000
Ron - I don't understand why it is sooooooooooooooooooooo incredibly hard for the owners of MJ and its readers to see that all that cures us is in numbers, plain old fashioned numbers. We need more downtown residents. We could use a One Spark event every month to help bring more people downtown. Art walk is not it, been around so long, even its legs are tired. We need bigger events downtown.
Shut down Laura Street from the Landing to Forsyth every other month, this will make Mr. Moran very happy, I am sure, but try some other streets too, get people to hold a street fair downtown and make it fun with beers, and clowns and things that parents, kids and families enjoy.
Its not rocket science to figure out what we need to do to make downtown a happening place. More darn people! Why should we be satisfied with one main downtown event for 4 days one month a year. I am not counting Mayor Alvin Brown's Jazz Festival, because, well that belongs to Mayor Brown, even though we, the taxpayers are paying for it.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 11, 2014, 09:39:32 PM
Forget putting racing stripes on parking garages or buildings, what Jacksonville needs downtown is more residents, pure, plain and simple. Build complexes or use the spaces that exist for more spaces for youth, aka Barnett, if it comes to fruition, but you need more people downtown to have ANY and I mean ANY hope of new businesses from outside of Jacksonville coming to roost downtown.
All of downtown's woes could be cured with 10,000 more residents. EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM!
No one disagrees that adding residents won't help. However, the reality is the Northbank will not have anywhere close to 10,000 residents by the end of the decade. If we get to 5,000 before 2020, we should consider ourselves lucky. Nevertheless, while working on that, it doesn't mean you ignore all the other things that help breed foot traffic and vibrancy as well.
Correct mjjax. Numbers .... in people ... as in residents first. Then businesses to support the residents will follow, with the result of there being more people in the form of workers. Result ... "buildings occupied" ... which is king in regards to sustained progress toward revitalization.
And the events, as you've said, will introduce people to DT, allowing potential residents to become comfortable with the core, and therefore entertain moving to it.
Perhaps we are beginning, as a consequence of events like One Spark ... Art Walk .... the Jazz Festival ... Food Truck Rallies .... to see gradual movement .... as in momentum..... toward sustained growth of interest in the core, and growth in the DT population, both in temporary events and in permanent infill. This momentum will increase further when Steve Atkins, my DT hero for the year, succeeds in "filling" the Barnett building with residents, workers, and students.
Yes .... I think we are seeing a real increase in core energy, where energy counts. If we do not back off, we might just see this era as a beginning of faster progress down the rather difficult path leading to core revitalization.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 11, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
Art walk is not it, been around so long, even its legs are tired. We need bigger events downtown.
actually overall attendance at Art Walk in 2013 was higher than ever
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 11, 2014, 09:39:32 PM
All of downtown's woes could be cured with 10,000 more residents. EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM!
Sweet. Let us know once you've done that, mtrain. I'm excited to see it happen!
It's true the writing off of Downtown Jacksonville as a place for up and coming Millennials has many, many authors I want to bring up three things not often talked about that together create obstacles to DT growth unique to Jacksonville.
1) CONSOLIDATION Nothing new with CBD businesses bolting for the suburbs, but with a consolidated Duval County that exodus has been super-sonic fast. And although some have kept a presence DT, there expansion plans wanted nothing to do with it. With consolidation, not only were there no incentives for these businesses to stay or invest in the core, the powers-that-be practically helped them pack! The end results are that Jacksonville now has one of the most de-centralized job markets in the nation giving little incentive for anyone to live downtown.
2) CONNECTIVITY Many downtowns face the typical barriers that hinder it's development: Suburban flight, severely reduced manufacturing base, interstates through neighborhoods, etc. but I'll add one that has (unintentionally) hurt DT Jax - The St Johns River. Yes, the mighty St. Johns that's supposed to be one of our greatest assets has over the years hurt DT because for many it has acted as an unofficial demarcation line for good Jax/bad Jax. Ask anyone who moved here in the 80's and 90's what they think of the Northbank compared to the Southbank. And notice how most of Duval's development have been East and South of the river. True, these negative views are misperceptions, but that's part of the uphill climb of public opinion DT Jax has to deal with.
3) EXPERIENCE I think this is the big elephant in the room when it comes to attracting people Downtown. Most people in the area have kept negative views of Downtown Jacksonville because a lot of them don't know what it's like to live in any other way. Think of everyone who went on to college graduating from a regional high school over the last 40 years: What percentage of them got their undergraduate degrees at Georgia Tech, Tulane, SCAD, College of Charleston, or any other "urban" campus? If you spent years of your formative life appreciating close-by downtown amenities, not having to rely on your car, and having no major issues living next door to communities good and bad, you'll more likely consider downtown a viable living option - even having lived through a university "bubble". This lack of that type of experience by young people is compounded by Florida's university system's scant options for this type of college life.
I'm glad to see the tide turning as far concerning opinions of downtown revitalization, but because of these and many other reasons, Downtown Jacksonville has a lot more setbacks undermining its ability to catch up.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 11, 2014, 09:39:32 PM
Forget putting racing stripes on parking garages or buildings, what Jacksonville needs downtown is more residents, pure, plain and simple. Build complexes or use the spaces that exist for more spaces for youth, aka Barnett, if it comes to fruition, but you need more people downtown to have ANY and I mean ANY hope of new businesses from outside of Jacksonville coming to roost downtown.
All of downtown's woes could be cured with 10,000 more residents. EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM!
This is where I agree with you and I have to buy you a drink if we ever meet IRL!
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on April 12, 2014, 02:01:24 PM
3) EXPERIENCE I think this is the big elephant in the room when it comes to attracting people Downtown. Most people in the area have kept negative views of Downtown Jacksonville because a lot of them don't know what it's like to live in any other way. Think of everyone who went on to college graduating from a regional high school over the last 40 years: What percentage of them got their undergraduate degrees at Georgia Tech, Tulane, SCAD, College of Charleston, or any other "urban" campus? If you spent years of your formative life appreciating close-by downtown amenities, not having to rely on your car, and having no major issues living next door to communities good and bad, you'll more likely consider downtown a viable living option - even having lived through a university "bubble". This lack of that type of experience by young people is compounded by Florida's university system's scant options for this type of college life.
I'm glad to see the tide turning as far concerning opinions of downtown revitalization, but because of these and many other reasons, Downtown Jacksonville has a lot more setbacks undermining its ability to catch up.
I'm a local and this is spot on. All I ever knew was the automobile and the ever-spiraling suburban dream that has turned into a nightmare over the years. Bigger and farther distances, a lot of time spent in traffic. Suburban university education. Lack of mass transportation.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 11, 2014, 10:42:12 PM
Ron - I don't understand why it is sooooooooooooooooooooo incredibly hard for the owners of MJ and its readers to see that all that cures us is in numbers, plain old fashioned numbers. We need more downtown residents. We could use a One Spark event every month to help bring more people downtown. Art walk is not it, been around so long, even its legs are tired. We need bigger events downtown.
Shut down Laura Street from the Landing to Forsyth every other month, this will make Mr. Moran very happy, I am sure, but try some other streets too, get people to hold a street fair downtown and make it fun with beers, and clowns and things that parents, kids and families enjoy.
Its not rocket science to figure out what we need to do to make downtown a happening place. More darn people! Why should we be satisfied with one main downtown event for 4 days one month a year. I am not counting Mayor Alvin Brown's Jazz Festival, because, well that belongs to Mayor Brown, even though we, the taxpayers are paying for it.
Funny I saw this. I was just recently discussing how the city would benefit from a large scale event like one spark. Meaning aimed towards building ideas and furthering the community. I have actually even been looking for people to sit and discuss plans on what to do as well, but finding motivated people is proving to be quite the daunting task.
QuoteNevertheless, while working on that, it doesn't mean you ignore all the other things that help breed foot traffic and vibrancy as well.
So let's go spend 1.2 million on funding for Hemming Plaza? WTF? There are NO PEOPLE there but a handful of days. Why not spend the money WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE DOWNTOWN???????
Sorry Ron - I know your shop is close to Hemming, but this idea of spending millions to maintain a park is the latest dumb idea in a long list of dumb ideas.
OMG, I am shocked, where is the Stephen I know? I was ready for it. 8)
My question is: why is this post focusing on getting a specific generation of people? It seems like "millennials" is the new buzzword just because a few articles and business owners fit into that generation. This post should be about "Landing more residents into Downtown"...
As a "Gen X'er" that lives and has business interests (and more on the way), in downtown, I take slight offense.
No need to take offense. Feel free to submit an article or an editorial about landing more residents downtown. We have no problem running it. In fact, we highly encourage it.
If you think that modifying the Landing to bring people down town you are drinking the same kool-aid they were putting out in 1985. The Landing will never be the "majic bullet" to solve the problem. It isn't a resturant or event (One Spark) that brings people from the suburbs day in and day out. If that were true the stadium area would be packed every day. Events bring people then "FLASH" they're gone. When I'm in town I pass too many resturants I like to go down town to eat.
People got to live and work downtown. Then the entertainment and eateries will come. Think of the burbs...do they move there for a resturant? ......or does the developer build houses, people move there and then the services come.
Downtown has to compete for clients with the suburbs. Owners have to make it economic for companies to want to be downtown. If you get cheaper rent and free parking at the burbs where most of your people live the company will move there. If cost to be down town are more forget it.
Housing also has to compete with the burbs. Millennials move often to take advantage of specials and new amenities. Same-o-same-o won't cut it. A Million dollar condo is too much and too much of a committment for this group. Walking is fine and they do it. But every one of our high rise apartments has a big parking garage. I can look out of my 8th floor office and see 12 other parking garages and I got a small window.
Quote from: Overstreet on June 04, 2014, 11:27:47 AM
If you think that modifying the Landing to bring people down town you are drinking the same kool-aid they were putting out in 1985. The Landing will never be the "majic bullet" to solve the problem. It isn't a resturant or event (One Spark) that brings people from the suburbs day in and day out. If that were true the stadium area would be packed every day. Events bring people then "FLASH" they're gone. When I'm in town I pass too many resturants I like to go down town to eat.
People got to live and work downtown. Then the entertainment and eateries will come. Think of the burbs...do they move there for a resturant? ......or does the developer build houses, people move there and then the services come.
Downtown has to compete for clients with the suburbs. Owners have to make it economic for companies to want to be downtown. If you get cheaper rent and free parking at the burbs where most of your people live the company will move there. If cost to be down town are more forget it.
Housing also has to compete with the burbs. Millennials move often to take advantage of specials and new amenities. Same-o-same-o won't cut it. A Million dollar condo is too much and too much of a committment for this group. Walking is fine and they do it. But every one of our high rise apartments has a big parking garage. I can look out of my 8th floor office and see 12 other parking garages and I got a small window.
Exactly!!!
Our downtown needs more middle income apartments and condos. If you must have a parking garage, make sure the only the entrance/exit is visible on the street level. The rest of the street level should be an attractive apartment entrance surrounded by retail shops so when you walk out your door you do no see an ugly parking garage and lifeless, windswept plazas like the Beekman and those highrise condos on the Southbank.
Let's also remember that great and vibrant downtowns often have a (or a few) colleges with classrooms, labs and dorms downtown that are not islands to themselves, blocked off by gates and lifeless plazas.
Others are just having edgie bars where small unknown bands to us but highly sought after bands who play the college bar/party circuits, these people/venues are what attracts young people. I'm sure that downtown Jax has some of this much somehow we need to encourage a critical mass. Us old foggies (i.e. over 30) are not the ones who'll jumpstart that kind of activity except for us older people who think we are edgie and with it for the new band and music of 19y/os.
It'll be up to the younger college students to make this happen. Let's also be mindful that the first Millennials were born, what? 1977 or 1982, they are aging as we Generation Xers have aged so perhaps it's time to look past the Millennials because soon those younger so called Millennials will form a generation gap with the older Millennials who are pushing 30 and beyond.
I remember in high school how empty the hemming plaza was on an Art Walk night but now one could almost confuse it for One Spark becuse it's that busy! (BTW Art Walk is tonight from 5-9 pm) There is also a food truck village there. I'm pretty sure the village is a new addition.
I am a millienial and I go where ever the bars, resturants, parks and bands are. I'm hoping that downtown will try to copy what riverside has. I think downtown still has a descent amount of places to enjoy. MacCool's, Burror Bar, TSI, Underbelly, 1904, Volstead, Chomp Chomp, Pita Pit, Burrito Gallery, Dive Bar, Chamblins and the Florida theater are all places that I love going to on a weekly basis.
I do believe modifying the landing would help downtown. If it were to become a mall that had actual clothing stores and resturants then people will flock there. I would rather bike or drive to the landing for clothes than going all the way to the avenues/town center. Plus the landing has an incredible view compared to your typical shopping mall.
Yeah, as someone born in 1982, I am never sure if I am millenial or an Xer. What I am sure of is, if I could rent a 3/2 for under 1k/mo IN DT- I'd move there. Heck yeah.
/I really don't understand current trends, catering to people in higher and higher income brackets, completely ignoring everything we know about income trends and distribution. The larger demographics are in the lower brackets! If you want your project to be successful, make it income accessible! /rant
^I don't know if the trend is catering to higher income moreso than the private sector catering to feasible projects. In many markets, without some sort of public subsidy, it's simply not financial feasible or worth the risk for the private sector to buy material, pay labor, land costs, permitting, etc. and build new from the ground up and make money or break even, at certain affordable rent levels. This is the case in downtown Jacksonville.
When I was on the tail end of 'Millennial' age as presently defined, like so many both then and others a few years before, I was attracted to Riverside Avondale.
Always alert to Demographic drivers, I have recently met two folk Headed Out From Here,one for San Francisco but the moves might be more about them than us.
10/4 on the post reflecting the divisive role of the Wonderful,Mighty St Johns River :o
The river placement,barriers and concerted efforts to Bridge have been a definitive aspect of Jacksonville history....why not now?
Reminds me of a friend from West Virginia,intent on residing with us in his retirement era..........non Millenial,fairly quickly,some years ago settled on the Downtown Riverfront South bank,to the specific exclusion of the North bank.Perhaps,likely,at the enthusiastic input,directive of this writer.
Now it is time for The North Bank.
Retired non-millennial cool too,and perhaps an important demographic driver.Another Downtown Ambassador.
Everybody counts.