QuoteBy The Times-Union
There are good reasons for a commuter rail project in Central Florida.
The commuter rail plan would relieve high congestion along the crowded Interstate 4 corridor.
The joint project with the Florida Department of Transportation would allow CSX to expand its freight rail operations, providing more growth of this efficient means of transportation.
And it would result in rail improvements throughout the state, including Jacksonville.
At issue currently in the Florida Legislature is a 61-mile section of CSX rail line in the Orlando area. The commuter rail line would begin in 2010.
The project, however, has run into a few roadblocks.
For instance, CSX would move a major rail facility from downtown Orlando to Winter Haven. As a result, freight traffic would be moved to a second rail line through the center of the state.
CSX officials say they are working to reduce the impact in Lakeland by perhaps locating switching yards outside the downtown area and creating quiet zones through the city.
Another concern is legal liability for accidents, since commuter traffic would be on freight tracks.
The Florida Justice Association of trial lawyers has contended that CSX "would be shielded from its own wrongdoing and Florida taxpayers would be left to pick up the tab."
However, Alexis Yarbrough, general counsel with the Florida Department of Transportation, said there is shared liability, which has been used successfully for about 20 years with the commuter trail system in South Florida. The liability issue has been vetted by DOT attorneys and outside counsel, she said.
Opponents have challenged state funding for the $649 million project during a tight budget year. CSX would sell the Orlando area rail line for $150 million and receive other state funding for rail improvements, such as the port-related upgrades in Jacksonville.
CSX notes that more than $1 billion would be pumped into Florida's economy, building its transportation infrastructure and moving people and goods more efficiently.
Finally, there are concerns that the initial agreement was negotiated largely in secret under the Gov. Jeb Bush administration with minimal public hearings. As a model for other commuter rail projects, secrecy is not the way to go.
Overall, the project looks good.
It may be the first of other commuter rail projects - Tampa may be interested and the JTA is embarking on a commuter rail study.
So there is good reason to make sure this can be used as a model in the future.
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commuter trail
- State and local investment, as well as over $300 million in federal transit funds, will be used to support construction of the new commuter line from Poinciana, south of Orlando, to DeBary, north of Orlando.
- For every $1 invested, there will be $3 in public benefits.
Source: CSX
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/042608/opi_272119282.shtml
Mr. Miller the big old bad CSX doesn't sound like they are against commuter rail. Seems to me they are encouraging it.
^ It may have a lot to do with the State's interest in throwing money at CSX to be able to reconfigure outdated or congested portions of their system in order to accomodate the commuter rail. The Downtown Orlando facility is likely built out leaving them no room to expand. Moving to less congested areas could easily enhance their effeciency and make them more money, all at the expense of the State.
Am I off bas Ock?
The article got a portion of it wrong. There is no yard in Downtown Orlando. The Taft Yard (the one being replaced by the massive integrated logistics center in Winter Haven) is near the Florida Mall and OIA. Taft is going to become the maintenance yard for the commuter rail line.
Here's some info on the proposed Winter Haven yard.
Rail Yard Could Alter Course Of Southeast's Economy
www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBYS6AI70F.html
I was just looking at Google Earth and discovered the same thing.
I guess its the typical TU screw-up similar to the labeling of anything north of the St. Johns River as "the northside" or "downtown".....
Oh yeah, we'll have the worlds largest, biggest, most important... BULL SHIT! All the trains in Florida wouldn't be a drop in the bucket to Chicago, St. Louis or Kansas City. Hell, Woodward, Oklahoma has 60 freights a day!
Look out the window as one approaches Chicago by air and what do you see? Well it sure as hell ain't Winter Haven...and this is just one of dozens! Frankly taft hardly amounts to a yard, Bowden dwarfs it. Think of Taft more along the lines of Bush Yard on North Main Street for scale.
(http://static.flickr.com/124/378869521_2a38a5f8e6.jpg)
Union Pacific Proviso Yard
Ocklawaha
QuoteOne More Reason To Pull CSX Deal
The Tampa Tribune
Editorial
April 29, 2008
The state's sweetheart deal with CSX Transportation is barreling through Tallahassee like a locomotive, no matter the fiscal, legal and civic concerns that should grind it to a halt.
The state's chief financial officer raised the latest red flag over the plan to purchase 61 miles of CSX track and create commuter rail in Central Florida, a deal that would allow the railroad to use the lines for freight at night.
CFO Alex Sink fears the state is assuming too much risk in the event of an accident.
In a letter to Senate President Ken Pruitt and House Speaker Marco Rubio, she pointed out several scenarios under which taxpayers would be responsible for commuter-rail injuries caused by the railroad's carelessness.
For one thing, taxpayers would be responsible for any losses to commuter-rail passengers in a one-train accident caused by CSX. And taxpayers would have to split the cost for any accident, such as a chemical spill, outside the commuter rail corridor.
Sink suggests limiting the liability provisions to the "CSX corridor acquisition."
Further, Sink, an accomplished businesswoman, chastised lawmakers for negotiating the deal behind closed doors over several years. "Much of the initial negative reaction to the Department of Transportation's proposal is a direct result of the lack of full public disclosure on this several hundred-million-dollar deal," she wrote.
"DOT has claimed they were successful during negotiations with CSX, but Floridians have been given a take-it-or-leave-it plan at the 11th hour."
Sink says that if "a future opportunity to expand commuter rail presents itself, we should appoint a team of experienced negotiators to advocate on behalf of Florida taxpayers, and should include representatives from more than one state agency including the state's Division of Risk Management."
If Tallahassee were filled with reasonable people, the state would renegotiate the CSX deal to get Orlando the tracks it needs - without giving away the store and sending up to 56 trains a day through communities that never saw them coming.
But the capital is filled with people who acquiesce. To do otherwise risks losing a committee assignment or a hearing on a pet project.
Yet when lawmakers vote on the CSX deal this week, the last week of the legislative session, they will define themselves for voters in the fall.
Do they stand for good government or back-room deals? Do they believe in sound business practices, or anything goes with taxpayer dollars? Do they believe in the conservative value of self determination, or should a powerful part of the state be able to hurt communities that have little say?
No matter what Orlando lawmakers say, this contract is not the last shot at making commuter rail happen there. Indeed, while some say Florida would lose credibility with federal officials if it pulls the deal back, it's the feds who are asking the tough questions.
In making their decisions this week, lawmakers should cast a vote for good government.
It's so rare that someone does.
This thing keeps getting more "FLORIDA" and less smart with every new article. Is Florida just stupid or do we all decend...no perhaps we ARE the missing Neanderthals.
So Tampa Tribune want's to ride their bikes through YOUR back yard and if they fall and get hurt, YOU get to pay for it? Huh? Oh Now I get it, if they swerve into your BBQ and crash, it's YOUR FAULT the BBQ was there so YOU PAY FOR IT? STUPID!
All the CSX has asked for is what is done in every other commnity and every other state in our nation and the World... You spill um and YOU clean um up. If We spill um, and your guys take a fall we BOTH clean it up... If it just involves us alone, you help out on major disasters Chemical spills in downtown Orlando or Jax are already done this way... help us clean up the mess, maybe even send in your passenger train folks and help get your line back up and send us a bill for damages. DAMN PEOPLE!
Ocklawaha
I think the people opposed to this agreement fail to see the flip side of the coin. If a commuter train crashes into a CSX train and the state is at fault, CSX is still responsible for the damage to their equipment and freight. If there is a chemical spill, CSX will have to pay for that as well.
This is just an issue that Lakeland and Tampa have chosen to run with because it makes for good sound bites and they don't have any other way to oppose more trains through their community.
Tampa now supports Orlando's commuter rail plans. Lakeland does not stand much of a chance against something that the State, CSX ($650 million in case), Orlando (commuter rail), Jacksonville (CSX port logistics solution), South Florida (dedicated funding source for rail projects), East Polk County (they get the new railyard and new jobs, during an economic downturn) and now Tampa (piggyback off Orlando rail plan) seem to want. Lakeland is better served fighting for some quiet zones and a few overpasses (like Ocala), then trying to kill the deal, imo. At least that way the get the throw out the bath water, but keep the baby.
QuoteCommuter rail plan runs into major problems
Sunday, April 27, 2008
Some Polk County residents are concerned about increased freight train traffic.
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY (Bay News 9) -- Hillsborough County officials are hoping a plan for a commuter rail in central Florida can be agreed upon so they can pursue a similar system in the Tampa Bay area.
For the last week lawmakers in Tallahassee have been debating a multi-million dollar deal to buy 61 miles of CSX track to create a central Florida commuter rail.
The bill has been controversial to say the least. But Hillsborough County Commissioner Mark Sharpe is hoping the deal goes through.
"For us to be successful, they need to be successful," Sharpe said.
The Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority is also working on a plan for a commuter rail. And that plan uses the CSX railway similar to the plan in central Florida.
"I'm looking at their project and saying if that project is successful and we can show we're serious about transit, then CSX will be talking to TBARTA about the next step, how do we make the two connect," Sharpe said.
But some residents in Polk County aren't happy with the central Florida plan, and the dispute could keep the bill from passing.
"It's bad for Florida, and it should be stopped," said Polk County business owner Ellen Simms.
A commuter rail in Orlando would mean more freight going through downtown Lakeland.
"And that's going to make it very difficult to go north/south, and my customers that are in the north are going to have a tough time getting over the tracks," Simms said.
Sharpe said there's always a price to pay for progress. And if the differences can be worked out, he said all Florida commuters would eventually benefit.
If lawmakers don't agree on something before the legislative session ends on May 2, the commuter rail plan will have to wait for the next legislative session.
CSX also wants to build a new freight rail center in Winter Haven. The company wants approval regardless of whether the commuter rail bill passes.
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2008/4/27/343449.html
Lakeland should try to get all they can out of this. A bypass would be best. I hope it works out for them.
Quote"For us to be successful, they need to be successful," Sharpe said.
The Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority is also working on a plan for a commuter rail. And that plan uses the CSX railway similar to the plan in central Florida.
"I'm looking at their project and saying if that project is successful and we can show we're serious about transit, then CSX will be talking to TBARTA about the next step, how do we make the two connect," Sharpe said.
This Sharpe guy knows what he's talking about. ;)
QuoteHouse approves commuter rail for central Florida
Wednesday, April 30, 2008
TALLAHASSEE (Bay News 9) -- Central Florida's Commuter Rail project got approval from the House of Representatives Tuesday night.
The House voted 77-39 in favor of a massive Transportation Bill that includes the necessary authority and liability agreements with CSX to buy the 61-mile rail corridor from Debary to Poinciana.
"As a state, we either believe in mass transit or we don't. (It's)How we've been doing it for 20 years in South Florida. And if it's good enough for South Florida, it ought to be good enough for Central Florida. We either believe in Florida finally getting its fair share of federal transportation dollars. You know the reason we never get our fair share of federal transportation dollars is because we typically don't do projects to help draw them down, and this is one of them," said Rep. Dean Cannon from Winter Park.
Meanwhile, the Senate's version of the Transportation Bill is in rules limbo. A Commuter Rail opponent, Sen. Alex Villalobos, brought up a point of order just as senators began to discuss the bill. Sen. Villalobos called for it to be referred to another committee because it includes a provision for sovereign immunity. A decision by the Rules Committee is expected Wednesday morning.
There are still more than a dozen amendments pending, and the Senate has long been expected to be a tougher fight than the House.
The Orange County League of Women voters sent out an alert to members Tuesday, urging them to call or e-mail specific senators asking for their support for Commuter Rail.
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2008/4/30/344173.html?title=House+approves+commuter+rail+for+central+Florida
Excellent - but yes, I agree - it sounds like the Senate will be a little tougher than the house.
QuoteSenate blows CSX deal off the rails
Senate leaders announced late Wednesday they were stripping a transportation bill of the legal protections CSX Corp. says it needs to pave the way for Central Florida's commuter rail deal.
Claiming the huge bill loaded with projects for other regions like South Florida was being weighted down by the controversial rail deal, Senate Transportation Chairman Carey Baker, R-Eustis, said he would gut the CSX legal protections and framwork for the deal to buy the 61-mile line.
"It's been a long shot," said Senate Majority Leader Dan Webster. "'It would have been a difficult vote."
Senators had prepared a raft of deal-killing amendments to the bill that had been slated for debate in the chamber today -- making changes like restricting state funding for the deal until federal money was appropriated, stripping the liability protections for CSX or prohibitng hazardous waste from being transported on the rail line.
"All we had to do was lose one amendment and it was going to be dead anyway," Webster said.
In retaliation, Sen. J.D. Alexander of Winter Haven had filed an amendment to strike the $45 million state subsidy Tallahassee sends to the Tri-Rail system in Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties -- complaining that lawmakers who were fighting central Florida's rail project were benefiting from the same legal protections in their region.
"At the end of the day I hope we build commuter rail first in Orlando," he said. "Whatever our policy is, it should be the policy for the entire state. We shouldn't have a South Florida policy and a Central Florida policy."
Never say never in the final days of the session, but Webster was not overly optimistic after the Senate broke Wednesday night.
"I think the liability issue is dead," Webster said.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/2008/04/senate-blows-cs.html
QuoteCentral Florida commuter-rail deal clings to life
Rail deal clings to life Senate to cut commuter train -- but House might revive it
TALLAHASSEE - For a while Wednesday, Central Florida's commuter rail appeared doomed.
With the 61.5-mile DeLand-to-Celebration project facing as many as two dozen potentially crippling amendments, Senate Transportation Chairman Carey Baker, R-Eustis, announced he would strip it from the Senate's massive transportation bill when the measure comes up for debate today.
The move -- coming just two days before the legislative session is scheduled to end -- threatened to derail a 2-year-old deal to run commuter trains through the heart of Central Florida by 2010.
But by midevening, supporters were holding out hope that they had found a solution. They said language restoring the project could be added back to the bill once it reaches the House, which would then send it back to the Senate for a straight up-or-down vote Friday.
QuoteAt issue is not just commuter rail -- a deal that would have the state pay as much as $450 million to CSX Corp. for its Central Florida right of way -- but also a mammoth transportation bill including everything from a $2-a-day rental-car surtax to pay for commuter rail in Central and South Florida to a 25 percent increase in Florida's Turnpike tolls.
Dozens of lawmakers have loaded pet projects into the bill, including language to help a friend of House Speaker Marco Rubio bid on a turnpike contract and a proposal to have the Lawton Chiles Endowment lease Alligator Alley for $500 million, which would be spent on other road projects.
full article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-csx0108may01,0,278304.story
Do not be afraid to email your state senator about this tonight and a small prayer couldn't hurt.
I've sent my email out. I make sure to remind them that this is the same rail line that runs from clay county to downtown, and Clay County has the state's longest commute.
The funny thing is, I came across an article that mentioned the Winter Haven yard is going through regardless and the State has already began making improvements on the S-Line. The Orlando deal could be killed and a number of trains could still be relocated over to the S-Line sending the right through downtown Lakeland anyway.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 28, 2008, 12:22:03 PM
Oh yeah, we'll have the worlds largest, biggest, most important... BULL SHIT! All the trains in Florida wouldn't be a drop in the bucket to Chicago, St. Louis or Kansas City. Hell, Woodward, Oklahoma has 60 freights a day!
Look out the window as one approaches Chicago by air and what do you see? Well it sure as hell ain't Winter Haven...and this is just one of dozens! Frankly taft hardly amounts to a yard, Bowden dwarfs it. Think of Taft more along the lines of Bush Yard on North Main Street for scale.
(http://static.flickr.com/124/378869521_2a38a5f8e6.jpg)
Union Pacific Proviso Yard
Ocklawaha
That is a beautiful picture, Ock. :)