This would be nice if this site is selected:
QuoteBy Karen Brune Mathis, Managing Editor
Deutsche Bank is continuing its site search for a consolidated Jacksonville office campus, and one of the locations is a high-profile Downtown property — the Southbank land for sale by JEA.
Four sources who are familiar with the deal but did not want to be identified said the global financial services company would generate thousands of jobs on the 30-acre riverfront site if it chooses the location.
"It would be a rebirth of development on the Southbank," said one of those sources.
full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542494
That would be amazing for downtown.
Doesn't the potential of that site include dense mixed-uses, public spaces, etc.. Compatible w/ a corporate "campus" ?
Depends on the layout. You can integrate a low-rise corporate campus into an infill urban site and still make the setting walkable, if that's your overall goal.
A promising option, but the devil will be in the details. It would be a terrible waste if it is simply a riverfront suburban office park with surface or mostly surface parking.
Quote from: vicupstate on March 19, 2014, 01:16:46 PM
A promising option, but the devil will be in the details. It would be a terrible waste if it is simply a riverfront suburban office park with surface or mostly surface parking.
Agreed. It needs to be "a game changer" not southside 2.0. A bunch of wasted land and sprawled out low rises wouldn't be beneficial in the long run. If they create a campus with a mixture of low, mid and high rises on that land it could completly change the face of the city...... and call me crazy, but maybe we could extend the river walk down to this campus.
I don't give a shit how the JEA land is configured if Deutsche Bank chooses to consolidate a large campus there. That would be the biggest game changer for downtown Jax and Jacksonville in general in a really really long time. Having Deutsche Bank locate a sizable office in downtown Jax that rivals anything it has in NYC would be something that puts Jax on the map in the minds of lots of other firms -
Other banks
Support firms
Various companies that do business with Deutsche (my own being one - we just hired an analyst from Deutsche's SF office and Deutsche markets our securities to investors overseas)
and for all of us looking for more development, I guarantee this would turn heads for every major group out there. As has been referenced today, not only is Jax not on anyone's radar, there is no compelling reason to bring any Jax deals up to any investment committee. With Deutsche building a downtown office campus, a sizable one at that, all of a sudden there is a story and optimism and excitement, and certainly a game changer.
If this happens, I'd love to see a joint venture between Deutsche Bank and a major player in the commercial/retail development world for a truly mixed use district. The possibilities are limitless.
I hope the city offers up whatever they can to make this happen.
Deutsche Bank / Ikea mixed use combo..... KIDDDING maybe.
So.......How can Alvin Brown and the City Council f--k this up?
I'm talking more about a retail/commercial developer that could help bring in multiple tenants. Look at what Regency has already done on Riverside Ave with Fresh Market, M Shack, and Corner Bakery already lined up.
Quote from: stephendare on March 19, 2014, 02:24:05 PM
Quote from: Stephen on March 19, 2014, 02:20:15 PM
So.......How can Alvin Brown and the City Council f--k this up?
ask Jerry Moran. Hes the defacto Downtown Development Agency Head.
I wasn't aware that Jacksonville has a Downtown Development Agency
(to the other Stephen) just a guess on my part, but Mayor Brown and his team (including Ted Carter and Aundra Wallace) may have been involved in suggesting the idea to Deutsch Bank to start with
Sounds promising but not holding my breath
Something like what they have in Frankfurt might be nice..... ;)
If it's a call center operation, I'd expect it to be more horizontal than vertical - but whatever, bring it on!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank_Twin_Towers
Quote from: simms3 on March 19, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
I don't give a shit how the JEA land is configured if Deutsche Bank chooses to consolidate a large campus there. That would be the biggest game changer for downtown Jax and Jacksonville in general in a really really long time. Having Deutsche Bank locate a sizable office in downtown Jax that rivals anything it has in NYC would be something that puts Jax on the map in the minds of lots of other firms -
Other banks
Support firms
Various companies that do business with Deutsche (my own being one - we just hired an analyst from Deutsche's SF office and Deutsche markets our securities to investors overseas)
and for all of us looking for more development, I guarantee this would turn heads for every major group out there. As has been referenced today, not only is Jax not on anyone's radar, there is no compelling reason to bring any Jax deals up to any investment committee. With Deutsche building a downtown office campus, a sizable one at that, all of a sudden there is a story and optimism and excitement, and certainly a game changer.
Deutsche Bank is expanding in Jax regardless - right? SO does it really make that much difference to all the other parties you speak of that it would be DT rather than SS? Don't get me wrong, I understand it is a big deal in terms of DT redevelopment whether it goes DT or SS, but how is it that relevant to them and whether or not those you speak of would invest here?
I disagree that the way it is developed is inconsequential. I could easily see this developing in a suburban style, then years later Deutsche moves on and we are stuck with it.
City Leaders and the DT Development Authority (or whatever they call themselves nowadays), need to get together and coax, lure, and hypnotize the German Banking Giant to locate downtown on the FPL site; I lived in Germany for 2 years whilst in the USN and they are easily persuaded if good, valid and solid reasons are given as to why they should choose downtown for this Center. If vertical, the German Giant would always have "passer throughs" traveling on I-95, an awesome and dramatic view of their signage on the tower or towers; if horizontal, the same would apply, but, we all are hoping they go vertical; even if it's only 20 stories!
HU
Quote from: simms3 on March 19, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
I don't give a shit how the JEA land is configured if Deutsche Bank chooses to consolidate a large campus there. That would be the biggest game changer for downtown Jax and Jacksonville in general in a really really long time. Having Deutsche Bank locate a sizable office in downtown Jax that rivals anything it has in NYC would be something that puts Jax on the map in the minds of lots of other firms -
Other banks
Support firms
Various companies that do business with Deutsche (my own being one - we just hired an analyst from Deutsche's SF office and Deutsche markets our securities to investors overseas)
and for all of us looking for more development, I guarantee this would turn heads for every major group out there. As has been referenced today, not only is Jax not on anyone's radar, there is no compelling reason to bring any Jax deals up to any investment committee. With Deutsche building a downtown office campus, a sizable one at that, all of a sudden there is a story and optimism and excitement, and certainly a game changer.
In my opinion you're not being crazy at alll, but that is a brilliant and awesome idea; I would say you almost have to extend the Riverwalk down to the tower(s). I believe that this is one of the "lures" that could be used to persuade the German Giant to build on FPL property, and to go vertical along with it.
HU
Quote from: blizz01 on March 19, 2014, 02:50:59 PM
Something like what they have in Frankfurt might be nice..... ;)
If it's a call center operation, I'd expect it to be more horizontal than vertical - but whatever, bring it on!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank_Twin_Towers
DB's presence in Jax is varied with most of their various departments and divisions having professionals in Jax. It's definitely not a call center and is akin to Goldman Sach's expansion/move into Salt Lake City (which has a DT presence as the anchor for the city's newest office tower). DT Jax employees would be paid very well for the market, and a lot less than what they would be paid in NYC (the whole reason for financial services' expansion into small markets).
Deutsche has a Wealth & Asset Mgt group that used to go by the name of REEF, and they manage a ~$20B portfolio of real estate for both institutional investors and private individuals. In other words, there would very well be the possibility that DB brings in a developer relationship (large national type developer that likely hasn't any past projects in Jax) and an operational/brokerage/project management relationship (like a CBRE or JLL) to throw up a phased, mixed-use style development with DB's "campus" as the focal point.
Quote from: vicupstate on March 19, 2014, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: simms3 on March 19, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
I don't give a shit how the JEA land is configured if Deutsche Bank chooses to consolidate a large campus there. That would be the biggest game changer for downtown Jax and Jacksonville in general in a really really long time. Having Deutsche Bank locate a sizable office in downtown Jax that rivals anything it has in NYC would be something that puts Jax on the map in the minds of lots of other firms -
Other banks
Support firms
Various companies that do business with Deutsche (my own being one - we just hired an analyst from Deutsche's SF office and Deutsche markets our securities to investors overseas)
and for all of us looking for more development, I guarantee this would turn heads for every major group out there. As has been referenced today, not only is Jax not on anyone's radar, there is no compelling reason to bring any Jax deals up to any investment committee. With Deutsche building a downtown office campus, a sizable one at that, all of a sudden there is a story and optimism and excitement, and certainly a game changer.
Deutsche Bank is expanding in Jax regardless - right? SO does it really make that much difference to all the other parties you speak of that it would be DT rather than SS? Don't get me wrong, I understand it is a big deal in terms of DT redevelopment whether it goes DT or SS, but how is it that relevant to them and whether or not those you speak of would invest here?
I disagree that the way it is developed is inconsequential. I could easily see this developing in a suburban style, then years later Deutsche moves on and we are stuck with it.
DB's overall expansion into Jax is somewhat of a story, but I think it gets glossed over and put in the same category as Merrill Lynch's large suburban presence here. I don't think it gets nearly the same press as GS's expansion into SLC, and part of that in my opinion is the fact that DB hasn't been part of the downtown redevelopment story. It takes more than just an expansion.
My concern with DB's Jax expansion all along has been the QoL/talent pool dearth, which is not enhanced at the young professional level by locating in suburban Jacksonville. SLC has 2 universities feeding its economy (BYU and Utah) and a very well known downtown story/urban development story (they are also expanding transit like crazy). GS's name/expansion into SLC is tied into the greater SLC story. DB is really only tied well into local publications as an employment story and nothing more, and has received some press as part of the overall story that FIRE firms are partially leaving NYC for small markets. It has nothing to do with Jacksonville's blossoming downtown and overall citywide rebirth, the amazing talent pool here attracted by QoL, or DB by itself.
In that end, I think DB helps itself and helps the city by moving downtown, and a story begins to be told. There's still really no "Jax" story when they're stuck way out there in the burbs.
Quote from: stephendare on March 19, 2014, 02:42:31 PM
So you are speculating that Mayor Brown suggested the Deutsch Bank relocation?
I'm suggesting that he has an economic development team that has been charged with selling the city....and downtown in particular....that's how the Everbank deal got done.
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 19, 2014, 04:46:44 PM
Quote from: stephendare on March 19, 2014, 02:42:31 PM
So you are speculating that Mayor Brown suggested the Deutsch Bank relocation?
I'm suggesting that he has an economic development team that has been charged with selling the city....and downtown in particular....that's how the Everbank deal got done.
What????
Are you kidding me???
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Brown had literally NOTHING to do with this deal. It was years in the making and closed literally as he took office. The move was enhanced by a qualified tax refund that is primarily a state program for Enterprise Zones.
Quote from: simms3 on March 19, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
I don't give a shit how the JEA land is configured if Deutsche Bank chooses to consolidate a large campus there. That would be the biggest game changer for downtown Jax and Jacksonville in general in a really really long time. Having Deutsche Bank locate a sizable office in downtown Jax that rivals anything it has in NYC would be something that puts Jax on the map in the minds of lots of other firms -
Other banks
Support firms
Various companies that do business with Deutsche (my own being one - we just hired an analyst from Deutsche's SF office and Deutsche markets our securities to investors overseas)
and for all of us looking for more development, I guarantee this would turn heads for every major group out there. As has been referenced today, not only is Jax not on anyone's radar, there is no compelling reason to bring any Jax deals up to any investment committee. With Deutsche building a downtown office campus, a sizable one at that, all of a sudden there is a story and optimism and excitement, and certainly a game changer.
Simms, its the very fact you state that makes Jacksonville all the more attractive. No competition for prime real estate. No one is falling over themselves for the JEA brownfield or any other riverfront property. That means increased value for Deutsche.
Overall I wouldn't get to hung up on Southside V2.0 talk. Bringing that many people downtown would revitalize the southbank, no doubt. And if Deutsche left in 20-25 years? Ok, so what? Like Jacksonville hasn't had a vacant property before? We will either tear it down, fine it to oblivion, or do a court foreclosure on it and then flip it to Edward DuPont Ball IV.
Quote from: SunKing on March 19, 2014, 05:19:30 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 19, 2014, 04:46:44 PM
Quote from: stephendare on March 19, 2014, 02:42:31 PM
So you are speculating that Mayor Brown suggested the Deutsch Bank relocation?
I'm suggesting that he has an economic development team that has been charged with selling the city....and downtown in particular....that's how the Everbank deal got done.
What????
Are you kidding me???
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Brown had literally NOTHING to do with this deal. It was years in the making and closed literally as he took office. The move was enhanced by a qualified tax refund that is primarily a state program for Enterprise Zones.
Tufsu was talking about the fact that DB is considering the southbank. Not DB's move to Jax. I don't find that as much of a stretch either, although it's pure speculation.
Quote from: SunKing on March 19, 2014, 05:19:30 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 19, 2014, 04:46:44 PM
Quote from: stephendare on March 19, 2014, 02:42:31 PM
So you are speculating that Mayor Brown suggested the Deutsch Bank relocation?
I'm suggesting that he has an economic development team that has been charged with selling the city....and downtown in particular....that's how the Everbank deal got done.
What????
Are you kidding me???
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Brown had literally NOTHING to do with this deal. It was years in the making and closed literally as he took office. The move was enhanced by a qualified tax refund that is primarily a state program for Enterprise Zones.
as noted in the post above I wasn't talking about the deal that brought Deutsch here in the first place...am talking about the idea of getting them to relocate/expand downtown
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 19, 2014, 10:19:03 PM
Quote from: SunKing on March 19, 2014, 05:19:30 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 19, 2014, 04:46:44 PM
Quote from: stephendare on March 19, 2014, 02:42:31 PM
So you are speculating that Mayor Brown suggested the Deutsch Bank relocation?
I'm suggesting that he has an economic development team that has been charged with selling the city....and downtown in particular....that's how the Everbank deal got done.
What????
Are you kidding me???
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Brown had literally NOTHING to do with this deal. It was years in the making and closed literally as he took office. The move was enhanced by a qualified tax refund that is primarily a state program for Enterprise Zones.
as noted in the post above I wasn't talking about the deal that brought Deutsch here in the first place...am talking about the idea of getting them to relocate/expand downtown
Got it. so you long as you are not giving this mayor credit for the Everbank move. That was all Peyton.
Wow, this would be a game changer for sure. Would be nice to get the school board off the river as part of the move too.
Imagine Deutsche Bank employees living on the northbank and taking the Skyway across the river to the new office on the southbank. The Skyway station is only about a block away.
Would be a huge win for Downtown. Just having the DB logo on the skyline would be a nice addition. Not to mention all the other secondary effects of a such a large project in the urban core.
Bank of America had a lot to do with the resurgence of urban Charlotte...maybe the Bank of Germany will do the same here haha.
Quote from: fsujax on March 20, 2014, 05:57:43 PM
Would be a huge win for Downtown. Just having the DB logo on the skyline would be a nice addition. Not to mention all the other secondary effects of a such a large project in the urban core.
Building signage is wayyy overrated. Jax has way too much signage as it is, so I hope DB can integrate into a nice new multi-tenant office building either without signage (if it's high rise), or tasteful signage (if it's low/mid-rise).
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 20, 2014, 07:01:45 PM
Bank of America had a lot to do with the resurgence of urban Charlotte...maybe the Bank of Germany will do the same here haha.
the BIG difference is BOA is in the heart of Uptown Charlotte....Deutsche Bank would be on the edge of the southbank, somewhat isolated from the downtown core.
That said, it would still be a huge win for InTown Jax, as employees may choose to live, shop, and recreate closer to their offices.
If they selected the JEA site, they'd essentially become Jacksonville's version of Omaha's ConAgra....
(http://blog.capitalexpress.biz/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/OmahaNE_Aerial.jpg)
ConAgra's corporate offices is the low rise campus along the riverfront.
http://blog.capitalexpress.biz/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/OmahaNE_Aerial.jpg
The difference to BOA being that BOA has an exponentially larger presence in Uptown C than DB will ever likely have in DT or SS Jax. ConAgra's position within DT Omaha, the size of the campus, and employment are likely far better comparisons, though I know the history of that ConAgra campus and I think a DB campus on an empty brownfield is already starting off to a better start. ;)
Having 2,000+ highly paid (for market) bankers in DT Jax, no matter where in DT Jax, is a huge plus that will have the same basic impact, whether it's in a new or existing high rise on the NB or SB, or a new campus on the edge of the SB.
With AT&T vacating 245k sq ft in the Everbank Center why not try and get them to move there? Seems like with this space and other vacant space there it would have the space needed and actually bring these positions into the core.
DB would never put an office in such a shitty building. If this were a larger city with expensive rents and lots of "average" class A towers, and DB held a "regional" office similar to all of the other bank offices in Jax (Wells Fargo for one), then I could see them moving into the Wells building or Riverplace Tower, etc etc, but not the Everbank Building which can't even attempt to call itself class A. I would imagine that if DB were relocating their presence from the SS to downtown, they would want something flashy, new, and nice (something that doesn't really exist DT).
Furthermore, I thought DB had 2,000+ employees. At banking employment density (think 1 employee per 250 SF, or more), then 245K square feet with an average 80s tower load factor of ~15% could support just over 800 employees comfortably (at that minimum ratio). I would imagine that if DB were putting their entire presence in downtown, they would not want to be spread around several buildings on two sides of a river.
Quote from: simms3 on March 20, 2014, 09:38:55 PM
DB would never put an office in such a shitty building.
yet AT&T and Everbank were willing to put their name on top of said "shitty" building
I work on the 14th floor of EverBank. I feel like a king. I have six elevators to myself, while all the EverBank people wait in line to catch theirs. Every other day or so, I have to share my personal elevator ride with one or two people. I assume the floors in my range must be pretty empty.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 20, 2014, 09:50:35 PM
I work on the 14th floor of EverBank. I feel like a king. I have six elevators to myself, while all the EverBank people wait in line to catch theirs. Every other day or so, I have to share my personal elevator ride with one or two people. I assume the floors in my range must be pretty empty.
I work in this building as well. Pre Everbank all elevators were free flowing. These days be prepared to stop at every floor.
^^well good to know ya all work in a shithole there
All kidding aside I would still try and lure them into the core. If not the shitty Everbank Center, then maybe on the old City Hall site. If not there how about build mid rise or more on Riverside in front of the new YMCA. I think any of these would be better for downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 20, 2014, 09:50:35 PM
I work on the 14th floor of EverBank. I feel like a king. I have six elevators to myself, while all the EverBank people wait in line to catch theirs. Every other day or so, I have to share my personal elevator ride with one or two people. I assume the floors in my range must be pretty empty.
Now having the elevators all to yourself is always nice ;) I'm in the 3rd of 4 different elevator banks and the floors in my bank all have investment banking or real estate tenants, so there's really never a wait (for a 98% occupied building). We own a 16 floor building filled with tech tenants who sit 1 employee to ~120 SF and they are all young and constantly in and out of the building - waiting for an elevator there sucks, not to mention you hit each floor.
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 20, 2014, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: simms3 on March 20, 2014, 09:38:55 PM
DB would never put an office in such a shitty building.
yet AT&T and Everbank were willing to put their name on top of said "shitty" building
First of all AT&T always occupies shit office. Their Mobility campuses in and around Atlanta are no different, and the space they take in other cities is always 1960s-1980s vintage class B that has barely been updated, etc etc.
Second of all, Everbank maintains their HQ at 225 Riverside (if I recall the address), which is leagues beyond Everbank. I'm guessing the staff they allocate to the two buildings are very different. Everbank is also a local bank focused on totally different lines of business than DB. DB is moving bankers from New York to Jax and trying to recruit MBAs. They're going to want office space that is more similar to Everbank's HQ, not their staffing center.
There is nothing wrong with working in a shithole. I've certainly worked in a shithole myself and it doesn't necessarily have any reflection on what you do for work. But realistically, Everbank Center is a shithole of an office tower!
Some DB *regional* offices:
San Francisco (this is also the building I happen to work out of :) ):
(http://stalliacapital.com/deploy/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/101_cal_full_height_from_street.jpg)
http://stalliacapital.com/?page_id=43
Los Angeles (arguably one of the top 5 most prestigious addresses in LA):
(http://www.archphotodesign.com/images/medialibrary/a_2000_Ave_of_the_Stars.jpg)
http://www.archphotodesign.com/portfoliolist2-26/NewCommercial
Washington
(http://www.nbm.org/assets/images/exhibitions_collections/roche/slideshow-1/lafayette-tower-washington-dc_slideshow.jpg)
http://www.nbm.org/media/slideshows/kevin-roche-images.html?page=8
Palm Beach (Royal Palm Way)
(http://s.lnimg.com/photo/poster/6d8713cef9544c50a535da328d3c660a.jpg)
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17049243/350-Royal-Palm-Way-Palm-Beach-FL/
Miami (tower is comparable to Wells or Riverplace, though considered prestigious in the marketplace there)
(http://taylormathisflorida.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/One-Biscayne-Tower-Exterior-Side-Shot.jpg)
http://taylormathisflorida.com/?p=535
Atlanta their various divisions are spread around different buildings in Buckhead, but all average class A towers.
Boston (also 2 buildings)
(http://nerej.com/images/stories/2011/51088_1%20beacon_opt.jpg)
http://nerej.com/51088
(http://www.1saze.com/alisaze/mashahir/International_Place.jpg)
http://www.1saze.com/support/pro/233-philip-johnson.html
Charlotte:
(http://www.emporis.com/images/show/711118-Large.jpg)
http://www.emporis.com/building/carillontower-charlotte-nc-usa
New York (lots of buildings)
120 W 45th (standard class A lobby with old school elevator turnstiles, which are generally needed for buildings with sensitive law/finance/insurance tenants)
(http://slgreen.com/images/property/img4829f96689d36.jpg)
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/120-west-45th-street/
1251 Sixth
(http://www.greenbuildingsnyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/1251-Avenue-of-the-Americas-Elevation.jpg)
http://www.greenbuildingsnyc.com/2013/06/27/x-y-and-z-1251-avenue-of-the-americas-completes-trio-of-leed-eb-ratings-on-sixth-avenue/
345 *Park* Ave
(http://media.glassdoor.com/m/09/16/8d/15/headquarters-of-kpmg-on-345-park-avenue-in-new-york-ny-photo.jpg)
http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&sa=X&espvd=210&es_sm=93&biw=1680&bih=949&tbm=isch&tbnid=PdOFCvWIvcvxmM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glassdoor.com%2FPhotos%2FKPMG-Office-Photos-E2867_P4.htm&docid=5F-ZydTi79pHrM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.glassdoor.com%2Fm%2F09%2F16%2F8d%2F15%2Fheadquarters-of-kpmg-on-345-park-avenue-in-new-york-ny-photo.jpg&w=273&h=500&ei=DaQrU7WVOIuEkQfB14CwBQ&zoom=1&ved=0CGYQhBwwBg&iact=rc&dur=820&page=1&start=0&ndsp=42
60 Wall St (corporate Americas)
(https://www.db.com/medien/en/images/DB_New_York_60_Wall_Street.jpg)
https://www.db.com/medien/en/content/buildings_db_worldwide.htm
885 Third Ave (Lipstick Building)
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00006G2xhng99LA/s/900/900/NYC070649a.jpg)
http://cityscapenyc.photoshelter.com/image/I00006G2xhng99LA
Philadelphia
BNY Mellon Center, the banking building of Philly
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/30642705.jpg)
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/30642705
Houston
(http://images.thesquarefoot.com/uploads/images/72976/700-louisiana-street-houston-tx-77002.jpg)
http://www.thesquarefoot.com/listings/tx/houston/77002/downtown/700-louisiana-street/90382
Jacksonville (currently):
(http://pics3.city-data.com/assessments_graphs/duval-county-properties/B/Baypine-Road-1.html.bg1.png)
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18100496/8657-Baypine-Rd-Jacksonville-FL/
Everbank Center? ::
(https://crowdly-uploads-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/profile/profile_image/7/Everbank_building.jpg)
http://www.beonespark.com/past_venues/21
Lobby:
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/assets/thumbs/image.2090.feature.jpg)
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-dec-everbank-coming-downtown-now-what
(http://www.eladnational.com/rentals/att_tower/images/slide-3.jpg)
http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&espvd=210&es_sm=93&biw=1680&bih=616&tbm=isch&tbnid=MKx7XW8nzGDptM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eladnational.com%2Frentals%2Fatt_tower%2F&docid=dEQq4gxnrnf9tM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eladnational.com%2Frentals%2Fatt_tower%2Fimages%2Fslide-3.jpg&w=940&h=511&ei=sqYrU7fRNYu7kQeh8IGQCA&zoom=1&ved=0CIsBEIQcMBM&iact=rc&dur=1457&page=1&start=0&ndsp=38
I think DB would go for something flashy, probably new and catered just to them, if they were serious both about recruiting and retaining talent (especially considering they need to attract 25-30 year old talent away from NYC, SF, Boston, etc and they don't have the university base or the traditional city with which to do that), and about making making Jax their #2 office in north america (let alone a move downtown).
Quote from: edjax on March 20, 2014, 09:56:32 PM
^^well good to know ya all work in a shithole there
LOL, I split time between Jax and Central Florida, so I only have to suffer 2 days a week.
Quote from: edjax on March 20, 2014, 10:01:08 PM
All kidding aside I would still try and lure them into the core. If not the shitty Everbank Center, then maybe on the old City Hall site. If not there how about build mid rise or more on Riverside in front of the new YMCA. I think any of these would be better for downtown.
I doubt DB wants to be in a DT highrise. They'll end up off SR 9B before they head to the Northbank. A year ago, I was a part of a panel discussion that included a DB executive. One of the things they like about Jax is its lack of density.
QuoteDrexler of Deutsche Bank shared his views about "The Migration of Business from High Cost Urban Centers."
He said Deutsche Bank in 2010 moved 10 investment traders to Jacksonville and the move worked out so well that there are 220 investment bankers here now and that number "should double in the next 18 months."
"We realized we needed to reorient ... to a broader group of people," he said.
Drexler said Jacksonville was attractive because Florida does not impose a state income tax, it is a two-hour flight to New York and offers a quality of life.
"I've been here 18 months. I think from a business perspective the advantages of Jacksonville are quite profound," he said.
Comparing the area's attractiveness of the ease of transit to Davis's support of urban development, Drexler said the Deutsche Bank investment bankers like the quality of life in a more open setting.
"I like to be able to drive where I want and park in front," he said.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=538565
^^yea I really think this is all about nothing and they will not opt for flashy and stay in the burbs. Maybe they are moving away from the expensive flashy addresses. One of their stated reasons for expanding in Jax is because of the lower costs. Maybe finally those frugal German ways are kicking in.
they can easily move to the southbank and still have a suburban style campus with convenient access and parking
It would be nice if they would build a signature tower like the one in Frankfurt but no matter where they go 2000 jobs is a game changer...2000 houses or apartments etc ....could be very good for Jacksonville...an October Fest in Metropolitan Park...St.John the Divine Greek Orthodox Church is planning to have a GreekFest this year and hopefully every year..We are planning a new Church building.
^ there were actually a few Oktoberfest celebrations here last year...one in Riverside and one at the Shipyards
We are still deciding on a date..Hopefully in October in Metropolitan Park..
Here in Newport News, the Orthodox Church throws a terrific Greek festival that attracts huge crowds from around the area every year. Hope the Jacksonville one is as big of a hit.
While we're on the speculation train, Adecco announced it is moving its N.A. HQ to Jax.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542522
Any chance they can convince them to head back downtown? Ignite, Adecco's "innovation lab" (tech incubator) is located in the heart of downtown.
^ Not a chance at all. They'll be filling in their Southside offices.
QuoteAsked a second time about the site decision in Jacksonville, Fleming repeated: "It'll be good for Jacksonville."
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542594
Quote from: JayBird on March 21, 2014, 08:51:47 PM
^ Not a chance at all. They'll be filling in their Southside offices.
yea, that would make sense.
Cut Deutsche some slack. Every job they move from NY to JAX is a huge win regardless.
I would love to see a nice futuristic tower with their name glistening in the twilight as seen from a blimp during Jags Monday Night Football. But that may not be their style in this case.
Give them some room to size organically. They may still want to move to the core 5 years after the bump.
For those thinking Deutsche wants to build a tower, you can put that out of your minds before you get your hopes up too high.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 31, 2014, 08:47:59 PM
For those thinking Deutsche wants to build a tower, you can put that out of your minds before you get your hopes up too high.
So no chance it will happen right?
I would be happy if DB went with a campus such as:
(http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/07/66/27/2057710/21/628x471.jpg)
http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Salesforce-s-Mission-Bay-deferral-raises-questions-3368430.php#photo-2057710
(http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/07/16/76/1896381/7/628x471.jpg)
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/place/article/Salesforce-plans-a-colorful-jolt-for-Mission-Bay-2369689.php
(http://www.socketsite.com/Salesforce%20Mission%20Bay%20Campus%20Olive%20Building%20Rear.jpg)
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=128118&page=53
(http://www.socketsite.com/Salesforce%20Mission%20Bay%20Rendering.jpg)
http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2011/06/a_bit_of_color_on_salesforcecoms_open_campus_in_mission.html
Awesome renderings here:
http://acochran.com/ross-residence-1/
This was a campus for Salesforce.com, and was meant to serve as its global HQ. Ultimately they decided to locate in several towers downtown (one UC 100% leased to them, across the street on either side mostly occupied by them, and the rumor is they'll at minimum anchor the Transbay Tower UC now, if not take the whole thing as part of their plan to occupy something like 3.6 million SF by 2016). Salesforce is selling off this land to other users creating campus settings in the area (UCSF is anchoring a west coast version of Cambridge around there).
Long story short, DB may not want a tower tower, but I bet they want their own space, and a lot of it. While they may keep different corporate divisions separate (asset management separate from corporate clients/Investment Banking, for instance), it's not totally uncommon for them to have several groups on different floors in one building. They also don't seem to like shitty office space (such as that they have in Jax now). Office space and location are proven to matter to the under 40 set. I don't see suburban Jax space cutting it in the long run if they want to actually steal away parts of their NYC office to a 3rd tier "backwater" market. They'll have to invest a little ;)
Quote from: spuwho on March 31, 2014, 07:54:15 PM
Cut Deutsche some slack. Every job they move from NY to JAX is a huge win regardless.
I would love to see a nice futuristic tower with their name glistening in the twilight as seen from a blimp during Jags Monday Night Football. But that may not be their style in this case.
Give them some room to size organically. They may still want to move to the core 5 years after the bump.
To clarify, Jaybird and I were referring to Adecco's new NA HQ, not DB.
Quote from: Rynjny on March 31, 2014, 09:03:07 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 31, 2014, 08:47:59 PM
For those thinking Deutsche wants to build a tower, you can put that out of your minds before you get your hopes up too high.
So no chance it will happen right?
The thinking, I suppose, is that if for some reason they wanted an office tower, there is already space in existing office towers for them. JEA site might be a good compromise...connected to the core while allowing DB to get "all that parking" that they love about Jax.
^^^If they want to be in a "tower" downtown, I highly doubt they'll randomly lease space in a bunch of separate towers (say to separate asset management private clients and corporate clients), and I highly doubt they zoom to the big space at the Everbank Tower.
I would actually be optimistic that DB would have something built for them. Also, are we talking about 500 employees or 2-3,000 employees? 500 employees in different divisions could be in leasable space between BofA, 225 Water, and Wells Fargo building, each of which has significant vacancy and each of which is premier enough within the market. 2-3,000 employees will need its own building or campus. But I'd be shocked if DB decides to put anything but basic services in the Everbank building. In every real estate market I've had any knowledge of whatsoever (granted Jax isn't one), blue chip banks who have a major presence never put employees in buildings like that. Ever. Secondary offices, maybe, but isn't DB trying to establish Jax as their #2 in NA?
I have to say this having experience doing exactly this, but for recruitment purposes, the office can make a huge difference. Finding the talent pool for some of their job descriptions within Jax/FL, even the South in general, is difficult enough. So they are recruiting from lots of college campuses, including college campuses that are getting picked off by banks in NYC, Boston, Houston, SF, Chicago, etc etc. MBAs tend to stick around where they went (i.e. I live in SF, so if I want a career here, then going to Stanford or Berkeley is a good idea...or it will have to be a top program so I can find an alumni network here if I want to head back east for MBA and return...a Jax won't really have a "large" Chicago, Penn, Columbia, etc alumni network because they don't matriculate there, though you'll meet lots of Gators and Noles).
College grads same to a degree, but they are still influenced by where their friends are all going, and they are looking around and seeing what's available. DB in class A suburban office park in Jacksonville, FL (or older class B tower) with lower pay on paper (though lower COL) when their friends are getting jobs with peer banks in bigger cities with bigger salaries (though higher COL)...maybe they interviewed with Bank of America in NYC and saw that spectacular office (it really is), and next up was DB for a position in Jax. It's not a really tough decision, honestly. DB knows it needs to step up its game if it wants to compete for talent. That includes the office.
It's no different in other cities, either. The blue chip tech firms are all either building humongous new state of the art facilities in Silicon Valley or making their moves into prime office in the city, but location AND the office are part of the equation for their recruitment capabilities. They can no longer have basic class A suburban space and still remain competitive for talent. The Google name is diluted now on paper when there are so many fantastic options for engineers fresh out of college, right in the city (hence why Google actually doubled down on its SF footprint last year by renewing/expanding).
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on March 21, 2014, 07:02:31 PM
While we're on the speculation train, Adecco announced it is moving its N.A. HQ to Jax.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542522
Any chance they can convince them to head back downtown? Ignite, Adecco's "innovation lab" (tech incubator) is located in the heart of downtown.
Per article on JBJ they are looking at moving the HQ to the Riverplace Tower.
Oops. Story on Daily Record, not JBJ.
Who? I thought Adecco was going to its Deerwood Park operation?
Addeco. Just states they are looking at potentially leasing two floors for the HQ only. Again looking, nothing signed. But still good they are considering.
Also. Sorry but the story is on The Daily Record, not JBJ.
Thanks for the info. It's better than nothing!
Not that they aren't looking, but since they've been pretty solid on the fact that it will fill in their available Deerwood space until now, plus the fact that they want place their executives here but will still keep Deerwood as their corporate hq, kind of makes me think they're more shopping to see if they get any incentive offers. Not sure how serious it really is, it's the play I would do just because why leave free money on the table.
Sorry for bumping this without solid evidence but I feel like sharing. Also because willing something hard enough makes it so. :o
Met a guy tonight...not a necessarily strong source and clearly someone for whose credibility I cannot vouch. That said, after multiple drinks he declared in no uncertain terms that DB will be moving to the southbank site eventually.
My friend and I rejoiced at the thought, then reminded ourselves this guy might be full of it. Oh well, we'll see.
Spoke to a friend at UC Booth getting his MBA. Currently the reputation for MBAs looking for IB jobs at DB, jax is the last place anyone wants to wind up. I think simms is right, DB needs to step up its game for recrutiment purposes, IB jobs going to a suburban office park is a joke.
Quote from: Bolles_Bull on April 17, 2014, 10:10:02 AM
Spoke to a friend at UC Booth getting his MBA. Currently the reputation for MBAs looking for IB jobs at DB, jax is the last place anyone wants to wind up. I think simms is right, DB needs to step up its game for recrutiment purposes, IB jobs going to a suburban office park is a joke.
That is a top 5 business school in the country. Its not like we get a ton of Ivy League caliber professionals in other fields here either. Would having a Southbank site make DB more attractive for elite IB's? Sure, probably, but I still don't think we would be on the radar of Harvard, MIT, Wharton type business grads.
^^^This is true. Which is partially why I'm not as "optimistic" as some folks here are that institutions like DB are happily abandoning NYC for places like lil' ol' Jagsonville...everything about it could be a cost move. Maybe they are trying to save on office and on salary, because a Gator is a lot less expensive than a Princeton Tiger (we're talking college), and a Nole is a lot less expensive than an HBS grad (MBA).
Well the bids on the property are due tomorrow at noon. Wonder if DB will be a player?
The bid deadline was pushed out to July by JTA.
Per the Daily Record:
JEA was to announce Tuesday the companies that have submitted proposals to develop the land. However, Monday afternoon, a notice was sent out saying the new deadline for bids was noon July 1. The bids would be opened at 2 p.m. that day.
Hmm. Wonder if this is good or bad? Perhaps better as DB seemed to have been a fairly late entry in showing interest.
I have no inside information and Simms could probably elaborate better than me, but a couple of thoughts come to mind:
- The publicity of Deutsche showing interest may have caused a late demand in getting a prospectus for the site.
- Usually delays are caused by inadequate number of responses to the original bid request.
^^^I'm not familiar with public RFPs. Various agencies representing SF in some way shape or form have successfully issued many significant RFPs over the past 2 years, each one resulting in a selection and subsequent private development. I haven't heard of one being delayed, so I don't know what that might mean.
However, in a public RFP process, I would imagine that legally all parties on the receiving end need to be treated equally and fairly. DB probably can't get special treatment and it's not necessarily in JEA's or the public's best interest to have one applicant.
Per JBJ, an addendum was added which resulted in the delay. Seems like this has always been known, but either perhaps not included by error or being added to delay it for other reasons unknown.
The addendum provides more information about access to the property, which is only accessible via the adjacent Duval County Public Schools property, JEA spokeswoman Gerri Boyce said.
I'm really thinking this is to give DB more time to get its proposal together. The more I hear the more it seems like DB is gonna be developing this site.
I hope you're right. DT and the urban core would surely benefit if DB ends up on that site.
Quote from: edjax on May 06, 2014, 03:21:32 PM
Per JBJ, an addendum was added which resulted in the delay. Seems like this has always been known, but either perhaps not included by error or being added to delay it for other reasons unknown.
The addendum provides more information about access to the property, which is only accessible via the adjacent Duval County Public Schools property, JEA spokeswoman Gerri Boyce said.
Let's all hope that it is a positive addendum and will tell the world to Visit Jacksonville and Welcome to Actionville.
Will this area encompass the vision of the CRA/DIA that will make Downtown a Destination and not a pass through?
What an opportunity for a Public, Private, Partnership with JEA and the DCPS in an active 24/7 access point that was a Tom Ingram recommendation during a previous FIND grant application process for a SUP (Stand Up Paddleboard), kayak launch. Very positive.
DB- Downtown Barricade?
DB- Downtown's Bustling?
Per JBJ the opening of bids delayed again. Now sometime this fall. They are stating now the delay due to the land swap issue and getting that in place and also to see more about school board potentially willing to move.
lol. Good thing, as an urban core advocate for Jax I've learned to have...patience.
Deutsche Bank focuses site search in Southside areaQuoteAfter another trip to London and another gathering of city and corporate leaders, speculation continues about where Deutsche Bank might land a major consolidated office campus in Jacksonville.
Southside, specifically the Gate Parkway area, continues to dominate the expectations.
As of early 2014, Deutsche Bank was interested in the Downtown Southbank JEA site, among other locations, in its site search.
That JEA site's prospective developer, Peter Rummell, says he understands the financial services giant has turned its attention to property near St. Johns Town Center.
Rummell, who is negotiating to buy and develop the JEA site, said Monday he has heard that Deutsche Bank wants to make a deal for land near the Town Center, which is off Butler Boulevard and Gate Parkway.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544339
^^^The trend continues - financial services firms are focused heavily on the suburbs in their non-core markets. SLC, Denver, Phoenix all have major operations of one firm or another in their suburbs. Not a good way to attract top talent - they'll continue to go to the hubs in NYC/Jersey, Chicago, SF, and Boston.
Clearly all about cutting costs in these markets, not about fielding the bulk or the best of their operations.
I talked to a manager/director level employee at DB over the weekend, and heard the same thing. He told me that many of the employees at DB lobbied heavily to stay on the Southside. He said many of them live near their current offices or at the Beach/SJC and don't want to have longer commutes to work.
His level of confidence was close to 100% that they wouldn't be moving DT or to the southbank.
Then another coup for Jax's emerging edge city. Not all are willing to go to DT.
^^^Wow, so the mentality of their employees is either stemming from a longer term view of "we have families, kids, etc and don't care about DT Jax [which in and of itself is different from the financial centers where often people who are 40 don't even have kids yet and devote their time to work]", or it's a bunch of young people who were recruited to work in the Jax office on a short term basis (2 yrs) and don't see themselves there long anyway (as their hope is to transfer up and out).
That still blows my mind, overall. Here in the Bay Area where things can be more spread out AND about 10x denser, with 1-2 highways to choose from, which creates relatively insane traffic snarls, employees in Silicon Valley who don't have the option of working in an SF office still live in SF and make the commute down each day (hence ballooning commuter rail ridership, traffic leaving the city, and about 50,000 people on private shuttles/"Google buses". Employees are dedicated to the city (also why DT Palo Alto is more of a hub for VC now than Sand Hill Rd in Menlo Park).
Different strokes for different folks I guess. Weird mentalities there - that's a sign that there are fundamental road blocks to downtown redevelopment EVER happening, if you can't get a bunch of young DB employees to want to work downtown in a more cohesive environment and their view is that the Town Center is better.
Is it mainly a bunch of UF/FSU/UM grads who have never worked in a downtown before? Penn grads all do 1-2 summer associate rotations for big firms in NYC, so they've all basically worked in a downtown environment before graduating. Is it a bunch of family members? Are most DB Jax employees past the DT stage and they actually want the suburban Jax environment because they've already "settled down" and are raising families (not that DT Jax or surrounding environs is the least bit hectic at all)?
Just trying to grasp here as dense "financial districts" in New York, Boston, Chicago, and SF sprung up for reasons that are basically antonymous to the one off suburban campus idea that DB is implementing.
Quote from: CityLife on November 19, 2014, 12:41:13 PM
I talked to a manager/director level employee at DB over the weekend, and heard the same thing. He told me that many of the employees at DB lobbied heavily to stay on the Southside. He said many of them live near their current offices or at the Beach/SJC and don't want to have longer commutes to work.
That's the same thing I hear just about any time one of these large companies is rumored to be relocating downtown. Upper management at these companies skews heavily toward the beaches and country clubs, and doesn't want to increase their commute times.
I know several people who work at DB and they all live on the Southside or the Beach. Of the younger folks, you've got people who've signed leases or bought property there at least partially because it's close(r) to work. They know the area and it compares favorably to Downtown for them.
But as Josh says, I expect the real push is coming from older folks and management types; they've often moved here from elsewhere and established themselves in the Southside or St. Johns to have access to the schools and "safer" neighborhoods for their family. Downtown has little appeal for them and a longer drive.
Sounds like it is a real chicken and egg situation. The city really needs to stop pursuing the one trick pony 'wonder deals' to magically transform DT, and instead create an environment for organic growth that is based on things that only a true urban core can provide.
Simms, the person I talked to has been with DB for a long time and came from their NYC offices. He said most of the DB employees that moved here when DB relocated to Jax moved to the Beaches, Southside, and SJC. Said they are all rooted in those areas now. The way he explained, it is the long term DB employees (who I assume are all in management roles) that are most against it.
I've said this on here before, but the same thing happened when Fidelity Investments moved to Jax. All the management types that relocated from around the country moved to golf club communities or the beaches to be closer to their Gate Parkway offices (right behind Tinseltown), and are now entrenched in those areas. As a result, I doubt Fidelity would ever move to the urban core. Note for those that don't know, Fidelity Investments is not the Fidelity that is on Riverside Ave.
When we get major corporate relocations and want them downtown, it is much easier to make it happen when they first move. Once employees get settled in the burbs, its over. St. Johns County should cut COJ a check for $10 million for all the new upper middle class residents its gotten from Jax's corporate relocations on the Southside.
I guess I should give up on simms3 recognizing those areas of town represent the American Dream for the vast majority of Americans. In Jacksonville or most anywhere else in this great country.
There are very few places in the United States where people of means would choose to live in an urban core environment when a desirable suburban locale exists close to beaches, parks, shopping, etc. Where this is not true, those urban places are the exception, not the rule, and it is foolish to continue insisting otherwise or dreaming otherwise.
For sensible folks, that's not a criticism of Jax, it's a recognition of a Southern, Sun Belt and Florida reality. Which means it is a sensible recognition that our urban core can't mimic San Francisco, Chicago or New York -- nor should it.
^^^That's a pretty bold statement to make that the vast majority of Americans want to live in a sprawling cookie cutter subdivision surrounded by strip malls, chain stores, and golf courses.
That's a lifestyle that Jax does really really well, and overall Jax (and FL/TX, etc) are cheap cheap cheap compared to the big cities. But the big cities are super expensive for a reason - much of which has to do with their demand not only on a domestic scale, but a global one. Many people moving from NY and CA to FL or TX are doing so for financial considerations, not necessarily because NY and CA don't represent the "American Dream". Lots of people who own a $400K 3BR house on an Arnold Palmer course in suburban Jacksonville, FL might trade that for a 3 BR in New York City, Boston, or San Francisco if it came at the same price.
I get the notion that Sr management is engrained in their golf course community world, and they're putting kids through school, etc etc. I alluded to that, and that's normal. In some markets, Sr management has to give way to their workforce, though, if they want to compete in recruitment. Both finance and tech have acknowledged this. My own company is an example of this, in that we are located in CT for tax reasons and don't even field a large Manhattan office, but most of my peers (associates, analysts, young VPs) reverse commute in from the city, and our CEO jokes that you can find a huge mansion in Greenwich for the price of an average 2-3 BR co-op in the city.
And RE young people, overwhelming evidence supports the notion that they prefer, larger, more urban markets (or budding urban markets such as Denver/Portland). Jacksonville does not fare so well when looked through the lens of where young people, particularly educated/mobile young people are moving or desiring to move.
So I think that speaks to DB's operations in Jax - they are purely cost cutting, not some new big central hub meant to attract the bulk of the Penn grads and Wharton grads being scooped up by banks and other financial firms. I guess it's a good place for transferring mid to upper management types, and then recruiting from FL/southern schools (folks that may be a little more averse to the New York lifestyle).
I spent 2 years at Deutsche in their derivatives group here in Jax. Most of the Sr Management I met really loved the lifestyle change from NY to Jax. Granted - most of them have families so living in Neptune / Atlantic / Ponte Vedra beach boasts a very attractive lifestyle to accommodate them.
There were mixed feelings in my age group ( 25 - 30 yrs ) about living in Jacksonville. Most of those working at DB in that age group had also moved down from the NE area which was a little bit of a culture shock for them. Some loved the slower pace of living and thoroughly enjoyed the beach life or Riverside, while others craved the fast pace of Wall Street/NYC. Understandable, and we'll never compete with that.
But cost cutting is huge. It's quite amazing that there are hardly any more banks present on Wall Street as there has been a mass exodus to cut costs whether it's moving across the river to NJ, Salt Lake, Jax, etc. We clearly have an advantage with cost of doing business and living, so for now the city should run with it as hard as they possibly can.
Jax is a baby city. Just rewind 10 years ago and look at how much this place has grown between then and now. I for one have reason to believe that we will continue to see steady growth as demographics continue to shift out of the North for warmer climates and cheaper costs of living. I love living here, and have no intention of moving any time soon. And most of my friends here proudly claim the same.
Same thing I hear from the Adecco management people that moved from the Northeast. They love being able to drive their own cars, park in front of their own building, and have a 20 minute commute. No idea how long that will last as I think they've only been down here in great numbers the last 3 months.
Quote from: RattlerGator on November 19, 2014, 04:40:00 PM
I guess I should give up on simms3 recognizing those areas of town represent the American Dream for the vast majority of Americans. In Jacksonville or most anywhere else in this great country.
There are very few places in the United States where people of means would choose to live in an urban core environment when a desirable suburban locale exists close to beaches, parks, shopping, etc. Where this is not true, those urban places are the exception, not the rule, and it is foolish to continue insisting otherwise or dreaming otherwise.
For sensible folks, that's not a criticism of Jax, it's a recognition of a Southern, Sun Belt and Florida reality. Which means it is a sensible recognition that our urban core can't mimic San Francisco, Chicago or New York -- nor should it.
unsure if it is or not, but it certainly isn't for your under 35 crowd. That's why many high tech firms are moving in town from the suburbs.
Sounds like Deutsche *may* have picked a location on the south side:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=545374
They'll have a great view of JTB and the St. Johns Town Center!
That's the exact site I was told about last fall when I heard DB wouldn't be moving DT.
Makes sense. I left DB last Summer, and the overwhelming majority of employees there lived between the Southside and Beaches.