(http://www.news4jax.com/image/view/-/22853894/highRes/1/-/maxh/360/maxw/640/-/v1eneh/-/EverBank-Field-scoreboard-rendering.jpg)
http://www.news4jax.com/news/ground-broken-on-everbank-field-upgrades/-/475880/24899038/-/13evp8z/-/index.html (http://www.news4jax.com/news/ground-broken-on-everbank-field-upgrades/-/475880/24899038/-/13evp8z/-/index.html)
All done using tourist money in the form of the "Bed Tax".
Quote from: urbanmythx on March 10, 2014, 11:05:44 PM
All done using tourist money in the form of the "Bed Tax".
Which is NOT taxpayers money.....it meant its a tax money for the city to use to improve entertainment facilities...Which again is NOT taxpayers money. I'll leave it at that.
Quote from: stephendare on March 11, 2014, 12:01:02 AM
Quote from: Rynjny on March 10, 2014, 11:18:14 PM
Quote from: urbanmythx on March 10, 2014, 11:05:44 PM
All done using tourist money in the form of the "Bed Tax".
Which is NOT taxpayers money.....it meant its a tax money for the city to use to improve entertainment facilities...Which again is NOT taxpayers money. I'll leave it at that.
so the tax money isnt the taxpayers money?
NOPE.....
Stephen, we have this convo on twitter and I'm not going to repeat it. Taxpayer money in my book is different from tourist tax. I don't know what's taxpayers money mean in your book. guess it's difference of an opinion.
First off, the money for the renovation is a loan. It is expected to be paid off somewhere around 30 years from now...but that's all in the air because the real cost of these renovations is not set in stone.
So, what we did, we took money set aside for the maintenance of our facilities and redirected that towards the "remodel".
The city is planning on paying back the loan with the "bed taxes" but it leaves the city in a potentially precarious situation. If there is not enough money to maintain the facilities who is going to pay for that...not the taxpayer?
You can do a bill search for 2013-0694 to read the details of the bill and the appropriations for that bill. Link to bill search: http://cityclts.coj.net/coj/cojBillSearchNew.asp?type=PL (http://cityclts.coj.net/coj/cojBillSearchNew.asp?type=PL)
It's a bit surreal to say that the bed tax does not belong to the "taxpayer." If what you are trying to say is that the funds will not come out of the general fund then that will make more sense but please be aware the city is taking out the loan not tourists.
This isn't even an argument for or against the remodel.
This is my understanding of the funding.
Some links to external reports:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540685 (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540685)
Right on Rynjny. I don't know why it is such a 'controversial hot button' issue with so many. Let me see, people who could give a damn if we had the Jaguars in town? Like constant haters on TU saying incessant negative comments like 'Jax spending all of that money on a loser'. Oh, now it suddenly make sense...
The one thing that put us on the map, just abandon any upkeep and renovations to the Bank, because it's all good when college stadiums with metal bleachers (the Gators Florida Field, and Bulldogs Sanford Stadium etc) have surpassed a NFL football stadium in technology....
I bet that those same people complain about Everbank Field renovations would be completely fine with big incentives for an IKEA, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops etc etc. Anyone trying to insinuate some worst case scenario that Jax taxpayers are gonna get fleeced, thank God that you aren't living in Cincinnati. Thanks for the 'new' story...
www.businessinsider.com/worst-stadium-deal-cincinnati-2011-7
I-10, it's getting a little old playing the "if this was the reverse, ya'll would be saying something different" card. I think just about every one of your posts say something to that effect.
Why not just look at this situation as it is? No one is talking about ikea. They're not related.
The only thing really being contested is some sort of illusion that bed taxes are not taxpayer money.
Justifying spending money under the pretense that bed taxes are somehow free money is not a good justification. Bed taxes can be used in many ways...and I think, though I'm not certain, they can be used to revitalize, yes, god forbid, libraries.
But the issue is not how this money is spent or what it's set aside to accomplish. The issue is pretending that it is not taxpayer money. The bed tax is essentially a sales tax for a specific niche of commerce. It is taxpayer money.
My understanding is that the city of Jacksonville took out a loan to pay for the renovations and we will be paying back that loan with money that was set aside for the general maintenance of the our facilities. Is that what it sounds like to you after you read the bill or the article from the daily record? Let's discuss the merits of that decision, good or bad.
++++ 10000 it has gotten very old!!!
Is there any event or function that brings more people downtown than the stadium?
You sound relatively reasonable and straight forward Cat, so I will try to be also. Funny that you mentioned that I brought up the IKEA comparison (I was being redundant because we're talking about this old redundant debate) but you kinda did the same with the 'library' argument.
I'm not gonna pretend like I know the intricacies of what's gonna happen 30 years from now or whatever, concerning is bed tax bill; I don't think that no one knows what's exactly gonna happen in the future. Sometimes politics are dirty, ie the POTUS passing the Healthcare Act. You my very well be right Cat, and taxpayers will have to dish out a lil'. It seems like the people who love the Jags and big act events in town don't care to complain, while others are weary of a worst case scenario.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on March 11, 2014, 02:23:29 AM
Is there any event or function that brings more people downtown than the stadium?
You're preaching to the choir Keith. I simply cannot wait. 2014, the most exciting preseason outside of the inaugural year (1995). Not to mention the other unforeseen events will come here. I ain't letting no one kill my vibe. :)
It will be a while before I get to see the end product with my own eyes. I imagine a good turnout for the opening game just because of the new look the stadium will have.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on March 11, 2014, 02:23:29 AM
Is there any event or function that brings more people downtown than the stadium?
One Spark? Jazz Fest? A typical weekday?
The stadium brings people to the stadium. So as far as having a lot of bodies literally on North Bank real estate, this is true. If you are insinuating that the CBD that we actually call "downtown" is bustling with activity and commerce every other Sunday or so during the season, that would be incorrect. We certainly have more people walking on Bay Street past Maxwell House, the prison, and the shipyards, but the retailers aren't doing more business than any Friday at lunch. Most are closed for games.
^^^All he simply said was bringing people downtown and far as I know the stadium is DT. Now that has to be twisted & screwed like he said a main pipeline down Laura Street...'After the game events' are so highly overblown in most cities. Most (especially locals) go home after the game. There are ones that really stand out, that's mostly in baseball.
All good!
A conversation several weeks ago with my grandmother, who resides in Orange Park:
Quote
Grandma: I was just talking about your football team when I was getting my hair done. Margie was complaining about all this money going to those big tv's they want to build at the stadium. I told her my grandson loves that stadium and that team so I support it.
Me: Haha well grandma it's not like she is actually paying for them, it's going to be paid by people staying at hotels.
Grandma: oh no, she heard them talking on the radio and they were criticizing that cooky mayor up there because he was going to use taxpayers money. She the roads and fire departments and schools could use that money more than a stadium that has a few Sunday games a year and monster truck show. I'm unhappy that my tax dollars are going to that, but I know how much you enjoy them so at least someone I know is getting use of my money.
Me: grandma you don't pay taxes to Jacksonville and clay county has nothing to do with the stadium. The only way anyone will be paying for it would be spending a night in a hotel in Jacksonville.
Grandma: oh okay. That sounds alright. You'd think they could've done it without using any money from all of us taxpayers though.
Me: yes grandma
Bless grandmas heart and I love her but this shows that even though many on here understand the difference, the average person truly believes that these boards are being funded by their property taxes and sales tax. They have heard so much about the "burden on taxpayers" without explanation that most are upset for unfounded reasons. So yes, even though it is "taxpayer" money, every one should attempt to clarify exactly what money is being talked about.
^^^Get 'em Jay!!! :)
^ I never said it wasn't taxpayer money. Simply stating the need to clarify whom exactly is affected. Directly, those paying to reside in a hotel will be affected. Merely owning property, buying a cup of coffee or operating a business in Jax will only be affected should the primary source of revenue not be sufficient. So most of the naysayers are criticizing it based on the "what if" aspect. Yes it's all taxpayer money, you could say that about government expense, but the point I was trying to make was that the majority whom are against it, are against it based on hypothetical outcome or just compete misleading from the media.
And I'm not sure who could consider the gas tax as out of towners expense or tourists pay it. I don't know anyone who drives to another county just to get gas. It's no different than sales tax.
Why not just sell the stadium to Mr. Khan or a third party?
Sigh
Quote from: stephendare on March 11, 2014, 01:28:33 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on March 11, 2014, 01:26:53 PM
Why not just sell the stadium to Mr. Khan or a third party?
because the NFL is a money loser without taxpayer funding.
The NFL is not a money loser simply from the media contract they sign. Whether or not individual teams would lose money based on the subsidies they get is another story.
We should have not approved that bill, so that EverBank Field ultimately would sit vacant and fall decrepit. Then we could have marketed our modern-day Roman Colosseum as a tourist attraction. Dang, what could have been...
Quote from: stephendare on March 11, 2014, 02:05:45 PM
Are you saying that the NFL would just abandon the site?
I'm not saying that they would've abandoned it right away, but improvements were needed to that stadium. An out of date stadium is the reason why the St Louis Rams are having rumors of relocating. Thank goodness that the Jags and the city had the foresight to do the right thing.
^^^I should have prefaced by saying that the Jaguars organization is in control, so that question is a moot point.
Quote from: stephendare on March 11, 2014, 01:49:26 PM
you are free to actually read the article posted above.
I did, it doesn't address the year to year profit of the teams. It simply says that the subsidies given to teams to build their facilities was greater than the amount it actually cost to build them. If Jacksonville wanted to remove all subsidies from the Jaguars tomorrow, the team could still renovate the stadium, pay rent, and still turn a profit. Same with the Carolina Panthers when they were playing chicken with the Charlotte City Council this time last year.
The issue is that if Jacksonville or Charlotte doesn't provide these there are other cities that will.
Quote from: stephendare on March 11, 2014, 02:23:54 PM
most of your points seem to be to me. I really couldnt care less, and I don't even know what you are yammering on about, so just declare victory and move on....or something.
I wasn't even arguing with you. You sound like a jaded curmudgeon or something, LOL
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on March 11, 2014, 01:26:53 PM
Why not just sell the stadium to Mr. Khan or a third party?
Carolina Panthers, Miami Dolphins, Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles and the Redskins are all privately owned. There may be more. But some are also riddled with legal issues. I know Philly paid some or all to build then sold to owner and years of legal battles followed. I think it's still going on. And I believe Dolphins built their own stadium but now that it needs rehab, they are seeking a portion of the $225M to come from their bed tax.
I personally think if Khan, or some other corporation, were to buy out the City it would be beneficial for everyone. It would put it on the tax rolls, and it would also offer more events and programming because the owner would be trying to get their return.
Don't we already have a few other threads about the scoreboard?? Why not merge them all and simply title it the The Everbank Scoreboard. Or are wanting a new thread when it hits 50% complete and then one at 100%.
So how soon should we expect a Super Bowl victory because everyone knows the key to victory is the size of the video board. Are we still getting swimming pools as well?
^^^Very original comment. Yeah, the pools are gonna be built.
^^^Can I borrow your patented 'yawn' reply Stephen?
You fellas should just PM each other this bickering back and forth, so we don't have to think there has been some content added to the discussion when we see there have been new posts.
PJ! don't you know better than to get between two hens when they're fighting? You could lose a hand!
Unfortunate that the new boards will not be operational for the USMNT match here in June against Nigeria. Would have been a great showcase.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on March 14, 2014, 08:48:53 AM
You fellas should just PM each other this bickering back and forth, so we don't have to think there has been some content added to the discussion when we see there have been new posts.
Word. I don't even check threads anymore when I see the updates coming from certain names. Of course, when I see PeeJayEss and Captain Zissou I always check; thanks for throwing off my system, guys.
QuoteNew Dimension in Scoreboard Watching
Daktronics Plays Outsize Role as Giant Scoreboards Proliferate
BROOKINGS, S.D. — The seemingly endless prairie that blankets this part of the United States would seem to be an unlikely place for one of the largest makers of sports video displays, Daktronics. After all, the nearest big-league ballpark is a four-hour drive from this town, which has barely enough residents to fill any of the arenas and stadiums where the high-tech screens are fixtures.
Yet in the nearly half-century since its founding, the company has become a global giant in sports entertainment, and though the quiet, tree-lined streets may not show it, business is good.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/sports/football/daktronics-plays-outsize-role-as-giant-sports-video-displays-proliferate.html?referrer&_r=1#
Good article. Excited to see the unveiling next week.
Good Story.
Very similar to Nevco, based in Greenville, IL for 75 years. pop 7000.
http://www.nevco.com/ (http://www.nevco.com/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenville,_Illinois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenville,_Illinois)
They also develop virtual scoreboards for sports. They are quite the innovator.