http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/02/24/tax-hike-recommended-as-pension-solution.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/02/24/tax-hike-recommended-as-pension-solution.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search)
Yet once again, the Mayor defers any real solutions or options and has others do his dirty work for him. If property tax passes, rents are going up!
QuoteSolving Jacksonville's pension woes will require some sort of tax increase, the city's pension reform task decided Wednesday, recommending that voters decide if they want an increase in the sales tax or property taxes.
The plan proposed by the task force would have the City Council raise the property tax rate by roughly 1.5 mills, garnering about $68 million. Then, a referendum would ask voters to approve a half-cent sales tax increase, which would raise the same amount.
If the sales tax increases passes, property tax rates would be legally required drop back down. The money from the sales tax would then, basically, be added to the amount of money the city is required to put into the Police and Fire Pension Fund.
Together, that should add up to about $200 million; this year, the city's required pension contribution was about $140 million.
The task force is seeking a way to pay extra in order to more quickly pay off the unfunded liability that has built up in the fund.
The other side of that deal, said task force Chairman Bill Scheu, is that police officers and firefighters must agree to benefit cuts, including lowering the cost-of-living adjustment and contributing more to their pensions.
"We've said that this is a complete package," Scheu said.
The task force didn't buy into Mayor Alvin Brown's plan to have JEA kick in $40 million in extra pension payments.
"Most people don't want JEA as part of a problem they had nothing to do with,"said task force member Bob Shircliff. "They've got their own problems. I don't think we should get them more involved in city problems."
In its recommendation, however, the task force allowed for the possibility of funding sources other than a tax hike, including the JEA funds, a hike in franchise fees and the sale of city property.
One additional source of funding the task force did recommend tapping into what are known as chapter funds, money that comes from state premium tax collections on property and casualty insurance policies.
Some of that money goes to pay for benefits now in place and part of it goes into a reserve fund. The task force recommended using $20 million from the reserves, an amount the Police and Fire Pension Fund had agreed to as part of a deal reached in secret negotiations.
The task force recommendations will be wrapped up in a meeting next Thursday, after which they'll be sent to the City Council and mayor.
Why is he trying to put a band aid on it? Fix the damn pension problem! >:(
Quote from: duvaldude08 on February 25, 2014, 11:17:15 AM
Why is he trying to put a band aid on it? Fix the damn pension problem! >:(
because the Mayor made an unfortunate pledge while campaigning to not raise taxes....and now he does everything possible to meet that commitment.
I'm sure he feels he's doing just that Stephen...but maybe you should discuss it with him
The mayor knows that being known as the "no taxes guy" will endear him to a lot of people, whether or not taxes actually stay low, so he makes it the one campaign promise he actually sticks to. Not a good way to run a city, but a good way to keep your poll numbers high, though the varnish is fading on that anyway.
Quote from: stephendare on February 25, 2014, 02:50:51 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 25, 2014, 02:48:59 PM
I'm sure he feels he's doing just that Stephen...but maybe you should discuss it with him
I will be, TUFSU. Ill let you know the outcome shortly. But I don't know what exactly you want me to discuss with him....the differences between a campaign pledge and an oath of office?
I am rather of the impression that he is old enough to be able to tell the difference.
^^maybe you should ask him if he knows the difference. Not sure he really is all that bright.
Quote from: stephendare on February 25, 2014, 02:45:14 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 25, 2014, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on February 25, 2014, 11:17:15 AM
Why is he trying to put a band aid on it? Fix the damn pension problem! >:(
because the Mayor made an unfortunate pledge while campaigning to not raise taxes....and now he does everything possible to meet that commitment.
but he actually swore an oath to fulfill the obligations of the city of jacksonville. A somewhat higher provenance of commitment.
We have underfunded almost every city function that supports a good quality of life and funded frivolous things instead = 2. We have underfunded the obligation that we had to fully fund pensions for city worker = 2. 2+2 = 4 (we have to raise taxes and stop funding foolishness) Simple math.
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 25, 2014, 04:15:56 PM
Quote from: stephendare on February 25, 2014, 02:45:14 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on February 25, 2014, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on February 25, 2014, 11:17:15 AM
Why is he trying to put a band aid on it? Fix the damn pension problem! >:(
because the Mayor made an unfortunate pledge while campaigning to not raise taxes....and now he does everything possible to meet that commitment.
but he actually swore an oath to fulfill the obligations of the city of jacksonville. A somewhat higher provenance of commitment.
We have underfunded almost every city function that supports a good quality of life and funded frivolous things instead = 2. We have underfunded the obligation that we had to fully fund pensions for city worker = 2. 2+2 = 4 (we have to raise taxes and stop funding foolishness) Simple math.
We also need to stop making promises that we cannot deliver on. The guaranteed rate of return on the fund was also unrealistic.
Related....
This website says Jacksonville residents have the least tax burden of any major city in the US:
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance-2/taxes/5-major-u-s-cities-with-the-lowest-individual-tax-burdens.html/2/
#1 Jacksonville.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on February 25, 2014, 06:28:15 PM
Related....
This website says Jacksonville residents have the least tax burden of any major city in the US:
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance-2/taxes/5-major-u-s-cities-with-the-lowest-individual-tax-burdens.html/2/
#1 Jacksonville.
Just a few things:
Wall St Cheat Sheet used to just deal with investment news. Since Spring of 2013 they have started trying to get into politics and some national news. Though their investment news is accurate, and I source them a lot, remember that their model is based on churning out 100's of articles a day to increase page views and thus gain ad revenue. It's working and making the brothers who own it very rich but it also leads to a degree of sensationalism.
The study only compared the largest city in each state and the fact that Florida has no income tax skewed the overall numbers.
Still a good article, another reason for people to look at Jax in a good light. Nothing to pop open the champagne and start building hundreds of suburban homes though.
I'm not against having our sales tax raised but if we go that route, it should not be in a vacuum. We have so many things that are underfunded or completely ignored because of a lack of funding. I'd rather see a push for a sales tax increase attempt to fund and address multiple quality of life issues than simply dealing with the pension.
Ditto.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on February 25, 2014, 06:28:15 PM
Related....
This website says Jacksonville residents have the least tax burden of any major city in the US:
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance-2/taxes/5-major-u-s-cities-with-the-lowest-individual-tax-burdens.html/2/
#1 Jacksonville.
one of the big reasons I took a position here within the same company.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 26, 2014, 12:50:28 AM
I'm not against having our sales tax raised but if we go that route, it should not be in a vacuum. We have so many things that are underfunded or completely ignored because of a lack of funding. I'd rather see a push for a sales tax increase attempt to fund and address multiple quality of life issues than simply dealing with the pension.
Pretty much what Littlepage said in his article today in the paper. Basically lets think of raising the sales tax a full % and fun not only the pension but other unfounded items throughout the city.
With BJP we got the sales tax and new buildings. With this sales tax increase we get ? Oh, we get to pay for the sins of past leaders. Those past leaders would do well to leave Jacksonville before the tar and feathers come out!
We get what we pay for.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on February 25, 2014, 06:28:15 PM
Related....
This website says Jacksonville residents have the least tax burden of any major city in the US:
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance-2/taxes/5-major-u-s-cities-with-the-lowest-individual-tax-burdens.html/2/
#1 Jacksonville.
This is something to consider but "Jacksonville" is not a typical "city." Being consolidated with the Duval County, it naturally causes its "city" comparison to look artificially low among other, unconsolidated cities. Consider this, a Southside suburban home in Jacksonville, pays more in taxes than any similar style home in a suburban area in the four counties adjacent to it. So, if Jacksonville was not a consolidated government, what used to be "Duval County" would have some of the highest property tax rates of any county in the region.
How this number should be measured – and no one wants to do this – is consider the total local tax burden as a percent of Jacksonville's GDP. Then, is it growing, stable or decreasing. Then consider the per capital, inflation adjusted tax and spending levels as a trend over time. JCCI looked at that measure and the city is collecting and spending more money in real dollars in a period where economic activity was in recession.
I am not saying we will not need to have revenue increases to deal with the pension problem. I really don't think that can be avoided at this point. But, we need to stop with all the sugar coating going on this thing and realize this is the price of a massive government failure. It will hurt the average citizen, it will not be good for economic activity. And like anything else, it's going to be more painful and cost more to clean up failure then to have done things right in the first place.
Quote from: Shine on February 27, 2014, 08:16:53 AM
This is something to consider but "Jacksonville" is not a typical "city." Being consolidated with the Duval County, it naturally causes its "city" comparison to look artificially low among other, unconsolidated cities.
Kind of off topic, but we are not always as unique as we might think. Actually I think we will see more consolidations over the next decade to streamline tax benefits. For instance, New Jersey is trying to force their 500 and something municipalities and 21 counties to combine in "shared services" agreements to stop redundancy.
QuoteList of Consolidated City-County Governments
According to the National Association of Counties, which maintains a complete list of city-county consolidation proposals since 1805, there are a total of forty. City and county governments can be consolidated in three different forms:
Areas with governments legally designated as city-counties and operating primarily as cities:
Alaska
City and borough of Anchorage
City and borough of Juneau
City and borough of Sitka
City and borough of Yakutat
California
City and county of San Francisco
Colorado
City and county of Broomfield
City and county of Denver
Hawaii
City and county of Honolulu
Kansas
Unified Government of Wyandotte County and City of Kansas City
Montana
Anaconda-Deer Lodge County
Butte-Silver Bow County
Areas designated as metropolitan governments and operating primarily as cities:
Tennessee
Hartsville and Trousdale County
Lynchburg and Moore County
Nashville and Davidson County
Areas having certain types of county offices, but as part of another government (city, township, special district, state):
Florida
County of Duval (City of Jacksonville)
Georgia
County of Clarke (City of Athens)
County of Chattahoochee (City of Cusseta)
County of Echols (City of Statenville)
County of Muscogee (City of Columbus)
County of Richmond (City of Augusta)
County of Quitman (City of Georgetown)
County of Webster (City of Preston)
Hawaii
County of Kalawao (State of Hawaii)
Indiana
County of Marion (City of Indianapolis)
Kansas
County of Greeley (City of Tribune)
Kentucky
Lexington-Fayette Urban County
Louisiana
Parish of East Baton Rouge (City of Baton Rouge)
Parish of Lafayette (City of Lafayette)
Parish of Orleans (City of New Orleans)
Terrebonne Parish Consolidated Government
Massachusetts
County of Nantucket (Town of Nantucket)
County of Suffolk (City of Boston)
New York
Counties of Bronx, Kings, New York, Queens, and Richmond (all part of the City of New York)
Pennsylvania
County of Philadelphia (City of Philadelphia)
Source
National Association of Counties. "City-County Consolidation Proposals." City-County Consolidation Proposals."Accessed March 18, 2011.http://www.naco.org/Counties/Documents/CityCountyConsolidationProposals.pdf.