Even privately financed rail projects have opposition.....
(http://nebula.wsimg.com/1f367fcd384f1b7cb039622dbd4db459?AccessKeyId=C9296BA2615F2B0AB929&disposition=0&alloworigin=1)
http://www.floridanotallaboard.com/
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QuoteAbout
We are a grassroots group of citizens who have created this page to help facilitate communication and inform residents that are affected by All Aboard FL.
Description
Florida NOT All Aboard
What is All Aboard Florida? AAF, is an approved rail service using the existing Florida East Coast FEC railway.
How many trains are there? Each day 32 trains will pass through going between Orlando and Miami, West Palm and Fort Lauderdale.
How frequently will the trains be traveling? Each hour two trains will pass through the area everyday between 7am and ending at 11pm, 7 days a week.
What about the freight trains? The freight trains will also be traveling along the rail and are expected to stop to allow the passenger trains to pass. The combined number of trains is estimated to be greater 50 trains per day.
Where do the freight trains stop? It is not determined yet. The rail line bisects many roads, which may have possible impacts.
Will the railway bridge be open? Based on current operating speed, the bridge will be open less than 20 minutes each hour with the combination of AAF and freight trains. Mitigation plans indicate the speed of the bridge may increase, but the improvements have yet to be determined.
What happens to the intracoastal boating traffic? Boating will have to stop when the bridge is down.
What happens when the additional trains use the line? The amount of time the bridge is open becomes less. Possibly remaining closed during the day.
What about "bridge rage" from recreational boaters when the bridge opens? Is it not determined how this will be addressed. (Bridge rage is the frustration caused by the bridge being down, and becomes exasperated when multiple boats begin passing through a narrow opening in both directions in a short amount of time)
Doesn't navigational law require the drawbridge to open for passage? Yes. The bridge must promptly open when requested by signal.
How can AAF plan to run the high number of trains and meet the navigational laws? It is unclear how this can be met with the current bridge construction.
How fast will the trains travel? Speeds of 110 MPH between Jupiter and Cocoa Beach.
Can the trains travel that fast through our cities? It is unlikely to reach these speeds due to the congestion, intersections, curves, and bridges on the track.
What safeguards will be put into place? An environmental impact study is underway and mitigation plans have yet to be released.
How loud are the trains? Don't know... Quiet Zones are planned which mean the train horn is not required to blow.
What is the cost to upgrade to quiet zones? The cost for each county will depend on the number of crossing upgrades and is in the tens of thousands of dollars per crossing.
May we have to pay for improvements and not get any of the benefits? Yes
Why aren't the tracks out west used that go directly between West Palm Beach to Orlando? Good Question! Everyone want's to know, there is no information available.
How do I get more Information? Go to "Florida NOT All Board" facebook page to learn more.
What do I do to STOP this? Get Involved! Help spread the information to concerned citizens. Sign our petition on face book page.
What do I tell our elected officials? You can go to "Florida NOT All Aboard" facebook page and download letters to send your elected officials.
Here are your elected officials:
Governor Rick Scott www.flgov.com
Rep Patrick Murphy www.patrickmurphy.house.gov
Senator Marco Rubio www.rubio.senate.gov
Senator Bill Nelson www.billnelson.senate.gov
Fl Senator Joe Negron www.floridasenate.gov/senators/s32
Fl Senator Denise Grimsley www.floridasenate.gov/senators/s21
Fl Rep MaryLynn Magar www.myfloridahouse.gov
Fl Rep Gayle Harrell www.myfloridahouse.gov
Martin County Commissioners:
Doug Smith dsmith@martin.fl.us
Ed Fielding efieldin@martin.fl.us
Anne Scott ascott@martin.fl.us
Sarah Heard sheard@martin.fl.us
John Haddox jhaddox@martin.fl.us
St. Lucie County Commissioners:
Tod Mowery moweryt@stlucieco.org
Chris Dzadovsky dzadovskyc@stlucieco.org
Paula A. Lewis LewisP@stlucieco.org
Frannie Hutchinson hutchinsonf@stlucieco.org
Kim Johnson JohnsonKim@stlucieco.org
Indian River County Commissioners:
Wesley S. Davis wdavis@ircgov.com
Joseph E. Flescher jflescher@ircgov.com
Tim Zorc tzorc@ircgov.com
Peter D. O'Bryan pobryan@ircgov.com
Bob Solari bsolari@ircgov.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Florida-NOT-All-Aboard/216516735216658?id=216516735216658&sk=info
The boating thing is a recent issue that was brought up. FEC is actually looking at hiring bridge tenders since they are currently raised out of Jacksonville by remote.
Appears to be some gaps in their info thus far but I think they will all be answered.
Paying for the quiet zones is a compromise between the railroads and FDOT. It is true, if the locals want no horns they have to pay for it. At last report the locals were petitioning Tallahassee to pay for them.
I know that Broward County EMR was looking for funding for the equipment needed to handle a high speed derailment or wreck.
All issues that will need to be addressed.
mostly fair concerns. seems very grassroots based on the website design and the typos in the FAQ
Their concerns are legitimate, but not worth scrapping the project over. In fact they've already identified the solutions, enact horn-free quiet zones and hire a bridge tender. Hardly the end of the world.
What tracks out west? CSX? Easy answer. The FEC tracks are being used because they already own them.
The root of most of the grumbling appears to be around the Treasure Coast area.
The FEC keeps the bridges "up" for the most part and doesn't lower them until 10 minutes prior to a trains arrival and raise them shortly after the EOT marker passes unless there is a meet nearby and then the bridge is kept down until the meeting train completes its pass. However, if you plan to increase the number of trains coming through each day then the bridges will be down longer and more frequently. This interferes with the number of boats that can pass freely to and from the ocean to their marinas.
However, there has been an ongoing under the table simmer about the length of certain FEC freights, some of which have kept the bridge down for as long as 30 minutes. This is disturbing the boating interests along the Treasure because as they put it, boating business will simply go elsewhere where there is less hassle. The other issue is when the bridge stays down for so long, it creates a boating bottleneck and they have had issues from time to time of 'boater rage' where everyone forgets their boating right of way and everyone tries to go first. This leads to a lot of bumping and mishaps and the follow up arguments.
In some ways I understand their issues and the railroad wants to be a good neighbor, but to complain because you just can't take your boat out "on demand" and can't time it around bridge up times (after all the railroad does publish schedules) seems to me a bit self focused and not paying attention to the world around them.
I picked up this article from the CBS affiliate.
http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_13439.shtml (http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_13439.shtml)
Residents and businesses mount protest to All Aboard Florida Rail service
Story by Jana Eschbach / CBS 12 NEWS
STUART, Fla. -- The new train service, 'All Aboard Florida', is getting plenty of opposition tonight from Treasure Coast communities.
Residents are fighting to move the new train service, they say will snarl traffic and even boat traffic.
"Things are starting to come back, but last summer we had issues with our river here, and now we potentially have issues with the new trains," said Bill Biggs of Riverwatch Marina.
Biggs is concerned boaters will be left waiting at the railroad track crossing for hours.
"Where they have ocean access now, they are going to have severely limited access," said Biggs.
To reach Riverwatch Marina in Stuart, you have to travel west past the railroad crossing under the US-1 Roosevelt Bridge.
Train traffic is set to increase in 2015 with All Aboard Florida, a new high speed passenger rail to connect Orlando to South Florida.
The train doesn't stop in Stuart, but more trains passing through, means boaters will have to wait longer to pass by the bridge that allows most Martin and St. Lucie County boaters to get to the ocean and back on the St. Lucie River.
"If you increase the traffic to the level they are talking about, the bridge will be closed most of the time and people just aren't going to wait, they will take their business elsewhere," Biggs said. "Right now, the minimum wait is a half hour."
Homeowners like KC Traylor in Palm City are not happy either.
"I'm shocked. Wait a minute. There's 32 additional trains coming in here everyday besides they are talking about 20 freight trains? So they are talking about 50 trains through all of our coastal communities," Traylor said.
'Florida NOT All Aboard' started a petition, just a group of residents up and down the coast that wanted to bring awareness, to let All Aboard Florida railways know, as well as our elected officials, this is not acceptable."
She's signed a new petition Not All Aboard Florida, asking the train travel through the center of the state instead.
Right now, The All Aboard Florida passenger rail project will connect South Florida to Orlando through a 240-mile route combining 200 miles of existing tracks between Miami and Cocoa, and the creation of 40 miles of new track to complete the route to Orlando.
Eventually the system may expand to connect to Tampa and Jacksonville as well.
"We are going to have to change our business plan in order to survive," Biggs said.
"With over 50 trains, and the bridge down for 20 minutes for each train, that's 18 hours that bridge will be down, and there's one in Jupiter the same way," Traylor said.
On their new website, one resident writes, "AAF will provide no benefits to the Treasure Coast Community and must be stopped in its tracks now. Please contact your state legislator to say NO to any funding of the AAF/ FECI project with our taxpayer monies. Speed safety issues; safety concerns for a grade level (ground level) track running through our towns; noise; traffic congestion problems; Environmental Justice; crossing gate construction and maintenance, preservation of our historic downtowns and historic districts; adverse construction impacts; hazardous material, usage and storage; negative impacts on wetlands and savannas, and water ways are all reasons why AAF and the proposed fast rail through the Treasure Coast must be stopped in its tracks now." - Anne Sinnott
All Aboard Florida's site states the project has economic and environmental benefits.
* Travel time: The new passenger rail service will transport passengers between downtown Miami and Orlando in approximately three hours.
* Schedule: All Aboard Florida will offer hourly service starting in the early morning with last departures in the evening. All Aboard Florida is also determining tailored schedules for special events and venues.
* Stations: Station design is advancing. The route will include stations in downtown Miami and Orlando, with intermediate stops in downtown Fort Lauderdale and downtown West Palm Beach. Stations will provide access to international airports, seaports and existing transit systems.
* Services and amenities: The new passenger rail service will provide premium amenities, including Wi-Fi internet service, gourmet meals, reserved seating, and will be fully equipped with easy-on/easy-off baggage compartments.
The approximately $1 billion project will operate on a regular schedule throughout the day, transporting passengers between South Florida and Orlando in approximately three hours. All Aboard Florida estimates it will create 6,000 direct jobs to construct the system and over 1,000 more jobs to operate and maintain it.
AllAboardFlorida http://www.allaboardflorida.com
The Florida Rail Network snapshot: http://www.dot.state.fl.us/rail/Publications/Maps/FloridaRailMap2006.JPG
I'm sure the same bridge issue will arise here if Jax ever gets commuter rail or Amtrak starts using FECs line. Though I'm sure that area down south probably has more recreational boat traffic.
As a previous boat owner, I've been in areas with heavy train traffic similar to what they are complaining about.
The railroad and the community agreed on a schedule. At certain prescribed times throughout the day, the bridge would be open. This allowed boat owners to schedule their arrivals and departures to correspond with the schedule. it cut down on the cost of having a permanent bridge tender and really made for a workable environment.
But, hey, we could always tear down their marina to make way for a new highway overpass. lol.
Easy just install a giant crane at each bridge, lift the boats and their crews completely out of the water, up and over the roads, railroad, trains and tracks, then put them back..... Ahhh SHIT! dropped another one!
Must be the morphine!
Sounds like an argument from about 1910.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 23, 2014, 10:04:58 PM
Easy just install a giant crane at each bridge, lift the boats and their crews completely out of the water, up and over the roads, railroad, trains and tracks, then put them back..... Ahhh SHIT! dropped another one!
Must be the morphine!
I really wanted to respond to this, bit cannot stop laughing. Nailed it Ock! ;D
Martin County is going all out to make noise on AAF.
http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/martin-county-very-much-not-all-aboard-miami-orlando-rail-line (http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/martin-county-very-much-not-all-aboard-miami-orlando-rail-line)
Fortunately, a exec from AAF is coming out to speak at the Martin County Chamber soon.
A lot of misinformation floating around, I hope the opposition can get some of their facts straight.
I just made a post in their discussion. Amtrak on the FEC probably isn't going to happen without AAF paying for much of the track infrastructure first. There's economic incentive even for Martin County because the project that will give them a rail station is piggybacking off of this one. I think some of this is locals not being able to see the benefit of thinking and planning regionally.
QuoteI'm sure the same bridge issue will arise here if Jax ever gets commuter rail or Amtrak starts using FECs line. Though I'm sure that area down south probably has more recreational boat traffic.
Just how much river traffic do you think we have now? No shipyards, no docks downtown, maybe a barge every once in a while from GCS or Palatka. Downtown is a ghost town for the most part, I'll be you the Acosta rail bridge sees less than 100 boats a day.
Martin County may very well be the most NIMBY place in Florida. I get that they don;t want to end up like Pam Beach, Broward, or Miami-Dade Counties, but their general no growth stance is unreasonable.
Took Amtrak to WinterPark yesterday for the art festival... Drops you off right in the middle of the festival. Looks like SunRail is nearly ready to go with shiny new and modern stations... right next to decrepit nasty Amshacks. The train was 40 minutes late for return trip...sigh...
Quote from: thelakelander on March 23, 2014, 08:34:36 AM
I just made a post in their discussion. Amtrak on the FEC probably isn't going to happen without AAF paying for much of the track infrastructure first. There's economic incentive even for Martin County because the project that will give them a rail station is piggybacking off of this one. I think some of this is locals not being able to see the benefit of thinking and planning regionally.
Education would certainly go a long way in helping to prevent the NIMBY attitudes. If boating interruptions is the biggest problem, I don't see this stopping AAF. Frankly, they sound a bit ridiculous complaining about when they can take their yachts out, or that it'll kill the marina businesses. Really, Martin County, really?
Martin County is pretty highly educated
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 23, 2014, 04:41:28 PM
Martin County is pretty highly educated
Right. Educated on NIMBY attittudes. I worked on a construction project down there the past few years and heard some of the complaints. Some people really had nothing better to do than rant and complain about it. Yet in the end, everyone praised the project after it was built. It just seemed liked their first instinct was "NO." The second thought was "BUT...MY YACHT!". The third thought was "OK BUT IM GOING TO MAKE THIS DIFFICULT". And finally, "GEEZ, ITS ABOUT TIME YOU'RE DONE. Oh, thanks for making my city better."
Someone else mentioned it. Its the overall paranoia of turning into Miami or Ft Lauderdale.
Probably the best option is for the FEC to post a tender and have the bridge cycle faster.
When FEC traffic was high back in the 50 and 60's, hardly anyone could afford boats large enough to be bothered.
FEC traffic declined over the years and people got used to it and marinas got built inside the tracks.
Now the traffic is coming back and the marinas are going to be subject to it and that makes people unhappy. They think of waterways like a personal road to drive on.
I think FEC and AAF want to be good citizens, but they were there first. If the citizens want better ocean access they should consider paying for a new rail bridge to facilitate that or organize their exits more regularly. There are lots of stories across the country of people getting used to underused railroads and then getting riled when it is sold and put back into higher use.
The reason people in Martin County and Northern Palm Beach County are so "uneducated" regarding All Aboard Florida, is because all efforts have been made to keep us from learning about this boondoggle until it is too late to stop it. If you were educated about the situation you would know that we are upset about much more than just boat traffic.
In Jupiter-Tequesta we have 7 railroad crossings and an ancient unmanned bridge trestle all within about 6 miles. The plan is for the train to pass through at speeds of up to 110 mph. There are roadways on both sides of the tracks along most of this length so at each cross street there is a traffic light. These intersections are perfect locations for vehicles to get trapped on the tracks. To help prevent vehicles being trapped the light cycles at each of these intersections have to have special cycles each time a train passes through. Then because of the many turn lanes, it takes a couple of special cycles to get the traffic pattern flowing "normally" again. 32 additional crossings a day mostly during daylight hours is going to cause constant gridlock in our communities. The local municipalities will also have to spend millions of their taxpayer money to upgrade and maintain all of these crossings.
The noise from the trains (or the cost of setting up quiet zones) is also an issue as is the increased air pollution due to the constant gridlock. The degradation in the quality of living in these towns will also decrease property values (Hmmm where will that taxpayer money come from??) All of this for what??? There is NO benefit for those living these towns or any towns north of West Palm Beach. Hundreds of thousands of people will be inconvenienced, additionally taxed, and subject to additional noise and air pollution so that a few hundred (even if it is thousands) people a day can travel between Orlando and Miami.
Quote from: jupiter on April 08, 2014, 03:42:47 PM
The reason people in Martin County and Northern Palm Beach County are so "uneducated" regarding All Aboard Florida, is because all efforts have been made to keep us from learning about this boondoggle until it is too late to stop it. If you were educated about the situation you would know that we are upset about much more than just boat traffic.
In Jupiter-Tequesta we have 7 railroad crossings and an ancient unmanned bridge trestle all within about 6 miles. The plan is for the train to pass through at speeds of up to 110 mph. There are roadways on both sides of the tracks along most of this length so at each cross street there is a traffic light. These intersections are perfect locations for vehicles to get trapped on the tracks. To help prevent vehicles being trapped the light cycles at each of these intersections have to have special cycles each time a train passes through. Then because of the many turn lanes, it takes a couple of special cycles to get the traffic pattern flowing "normally" again. 32 additional crossings a day mostly during daylight hours is going to cause constant gridlock in our communities. The local municipalities will also have to spend millions of their taxpayer money to upgrade and maintain all of these crossings.
The noise from the trains (or the cost of setting up quiet zones) is also an issue as is the increased air pollution due to the constant gridlock. The degradation in the quality of living in these towns will also decrease property values (Hmmm where will that taxpayer money come from??) All of this for what??? There is NO benefit for those living these towns or any towns north of West Palm Beach. Hundreds of thousands of people will be inconvenienced, additionally taxed, and subject to additional noise and air pollution so that a few hundred (even if it is thousands) people a day can travel between Orlando and Miami.
OK, so there are legit concerns. Why doesn't this group acknowledge these concerns, instead of boat traffic issues?
Quote from: jupiter on April 08, 2014, 03:42:47 PM
The reason people in Martin County and Northern Palm Beach County are so "uneducated" regarding All Aboard Florida, is because all efforts have been made to keep us from learning about this boondoggle until it is too late to stop it. If you were educated about the situation you would know that we are upset about much more than just boat traffic.
What information was withheld in Martin and Northern Palm Beach Counties that was shared in the rest of the state and not available through a simple google search?
QuoteIn Jupiter-Tequesta we have 7 railroad crossings and an ancient unmanned bridge trestle all within about 6 miles. The plan is for the train to pass through at speeds of up to 110 mph. There are roadways on both sides of the tracks along most of this length so at each cross street there is a traffic light. These intersections are perfect locations for vehicles to get trapped on the tracks. To help prevent vehicles being trapped the light cycles at each of these intersections have to have special cycles each time a train passes through. Then because of the many turn lanes, it takes a couple of special cycles to get the traffic pattern flowing "normally" again. 32 additional crossings a day mostly during daylight hours is going to cause constant gridlock in our communities. The local municipalities will also have to spend millions of their taxpayer money to upgrade and maintain all of these crossings.
What type of gridlock are we talking about? Any technical analysis confirming this situation at this point? Unfortunately, one issue is that the FEC can literally put as many trains on their ROW as they wish and not upgrade crossings other governmental agencies have built across their tracks. If you don't already have a few, perhaps a public investment in a grade separated crossing or two is in order?
QuoteThe noise from the trains (or the cost of setting up quiet zones) is also an issue as is the increased air pollution due to the constant gridlock. The degradation in the quality of living in these towns will also decrease property values (Hmmm where will that taxpayer money come from??) All of this for what??? There is NO benefit for those living these towns or any towns north of West Palm Beach. Hundreds of thousands of people will be inconvenienced, additionally taxed, and subject to additional noise and air pollution so that a few hundred (even if it is thousands) people a day can travel between Orlando and Miami.
Again, I'm not sure all the Treasure Coast opposition in the world will stop additional rail traffic on FEC's ROW if FEC wants it. One benefit would come in the form of FEC/AAF paying to upgrade track infrastructure improvements also needed for Amtrak, which would have a Stuart stop. Palm Beach County will have an AAF stop and associated TOD investments in downtown West Palm Beach.
My advice would be to see what type of concessions you can get FEC/AAF to cover. However, what really needs to be addressed is local land use and transportation planning moving forward. This area would benefit from a grade separated crossing or two. Unfortunately, it appears there's a lot of new development where the infrastructure costs have been passed on to the taxpayer, as opposed to the developer properly funding their negative impact to public infrastructure. It's kind of hard to win an argument claiming that FEC/AAF should bail out bad local planning and development patterns. Looking at Google Earth, it appears golf has been historically more important than providing the necessary infrastructure to get people across the tracks that divide this area in half. Seriously, what happens in the event of an emergency if tracks are blocked?
Yes the info is available if you are looking for it. Most people don't sit around doing random searches regarding FEC plans. Also many people are still confusing the FEC tracks with the CSX tracks
Some of the roadways that surround the tracks have been in the same locations almost as long as the tracks. There are also other other restrictions through these areas because of the waterways . There simply is not enough room in most cases for grade separated crossings. Not to mention the cost.
Boating issues bring out the emotions down here. Much of our economy including tourism is based on the marine industry. People are just starting to realize the rest of the impacts. This movement will continue to grow.
And seriously what do we do in emergencies if the tracks are blocked? This is no joke in many areas. We have at least 3 out the 4 crossings in Jupiter blocked about twice a year since I've lived here. With the river to our north it leaves two options, head south until you find an open road (along with everyone else) or find something else to occupy yourself for a couple of hours.
Unfortunately, it appears there's a lot of new development where the infrastructure costs have been passed on to the taxpayer, as opposed to the developer properly funding their negative impact to public infrastructure.
This never happens.... :P
I'm sure FEC could run as many freight trains, at a significant length, as it wanted to, if it had the need to. Passenger train are rarely 80-100 cars long. While I agree that more trains would mean more crossings, the speed and length should not make much of an impact.
How long are these AAF trains expected to be? Four to five cars maybe? When Amtrak trains come through Ortega, it's barely 30 seconds from arms-down to arms-up. These won't be like freight trains that can tie up a crossing for 10 minutes at a time.
Also, with that S-curve from Tequesta Drive to Center Street near the lighthouse, I can't imagine these trains will be plowing through Jupiter at 100 mph.
So the concern is that it will disrupt traffic flow. A reasonable concern.
Problem is, the proposed solution isn't reasonable. The FEC owns the tracks, and because of the age of that railroad, most likely owns the land underneath them. Your roadways that came along 100 years later only have an easement to cross their tracks, not vice versa. The bottom line is the FEC can do what it wishes with its tracks, and if it causes a traffic problem in your community then the onus is on your local government to fix the crossings to resolve the concerns, which the community and not the FEC built in the first place. That isn't the FEC's obligation.
^ Pretty much. The FEC has been there since 1893. In fact, Henry Flagler platted West Palm Beach when he extended his railroad into the area. Legally, FEC can add or subtract as many trains as they wish. They own the tracks and the ROW. The concern is a valid one but it's one that needs to be addressed and funded with local dollars or state money (assuming major crossings are FDOT facilities).
Actually, even if the tracks had only been there ten years the local government still can not regulate rail traffic.
We can place blame on what the community planners did or did not do but that does not change the current situation. Many of these roads have been here almost as long as the rails (maybe some longer - I'm trying to find that out). Yes the FEC has no obligation to fix the crossings, but they do have an obligation for the safety of their commuters and those whose live and work in the proximity of their tracks.
The crossing arms only being down 30 seconds looks good on paper, but with the roads paralleling tracks throughout Palm Beach County it is still going to cause major traffic problems by time the traffic lights change cycles for the train and then reset and clear out all the turn lanes.
My main point is this is not a NIMBY problem. This is a problem that will affect the daily lives and livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people in South Florida.
^I think people can see the problem. FEC just doesn't have an obligation to pay for the fixes.
I don't really see the problem. Check out the BNSF Chicago Subdivision if you want to see heavy rail traffic moving through populated areas. That dwarfs anything the FEC is ever going to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evxwonbiedU
Here is a good example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KKOEuQoSqqQ#t=745
Quote from: Lunican on April 09, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
I don't really see the problem. Check out the BNSF Chicago Subdivision if you want to see heavy rail traffic moving
through populated areas. That dwarfs anything the FEC is ever going to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evxwonbiedU
So funny Lunican as I was thinking the exact same thing. I also used to live next to the UP West Line (Geneva Sub) only 2 blocks away.
Between Metra and UP coal drags from Powder River we had many trains crossing daily.
The only issue was when their was a accident with a car or someone trespassing. Each municipality on the ROW built at least one bridge to mitigate traffic or emergency services.
They didn't complain or make the railroad pay, they just did it because they felt it was their responsibility.
Those videos are hysterical and if anything are a testimonial against this passenger rail.
I would invite you guys to come see this beautiful area, but you'd just want take the train. ;)
Why is Jupiter any more special than the Chicago suburbs when it comes to limiting rail traffic?
Jupiter is like any coastal sprawlburb in Florida, largely developed since 1950. Lots of single family housing, recreational boating, gate communities, golf courses, strip malls, bad traffic and water. However, given that area's size, one would think that they would already have built at least one grade separated crossing. That's a valid need. However, that's ultimately not FEC's responsibility.
Quote from: jupiter on April 09, 2014, 11:54:48 AM
Those videos are hysterical and if anything are a testimonial against this passenger rail.
I would invite you guys to come see this beautiful area, but you'd just want take the train. ;)
I have been to Jupiter and I agree it's a nice town. But having several trains pass by daily will not destroy it's quality of life.
It's amazing how once one gets used to something how small the intrusion actually is.
Also since AAF is passenger rail it will not be as noisy across any switches or crossings as a freight will be.
Not as heavy, more shock absorption in the cars.
Quote from: jupiter on April 09, 2014, 11:54:48 AM
Those videos are hysterical and if anything are a testimonial against this passenger rail.
I would invite you guys to come see this beautiful area, but you'd just want take the train. ;)
I've been to Jupiter, and as I recall it had more going for it than a lack of trains...
I'm surprised to see passenger and freight train numbers added together just like that, as if they're remotely similar in length. Yeah, it's 32 more trains, but how many of those add up to the disruption of a single 50-100 car freight train? Specifics will go farther than just concerns. Everyone can be a concerned citizen, but concerns have to be weighed against facts, data, expert analysis for good decision making and alternative selection. I'm not expecting a grassroots effort to have all the specifics necessarily, but it should be the goal, the thing to work toward to beef up the argument. See what you can find to support the concern, but also what you can find that doesn't, because realizing a concern is unfounded is one way of addressing it. Not that I'm making any claims that they are, but it's a good idea to be open to that possibility.
Another defeat for the anti-AAF folks
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/06/11/269568/court-sidetracks-challenge-to.html
I hope this means we get to hear them kick and scream about getting bowled over by Big Choo-Choo, or whatever infantile slogan they're using these days.
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 23, 2014, 04:41:28 PM
Martin County is pretty highly educated
Sometimes Martin County says "Know" to Growth :)
Regards "Boating" interests,South Florida based Florida Yacht Brokers Association,which has enjoyed some political connection,has voiced concerns. FYBA cites possibly impressive regional marine industry economic and social/recreation aspects.
Apparently the United States Coast Guard might have role in decision.
With so many South Florida back yards,literally,NIMBY stance might be a matter of Land Ethic.