Per The Jax Daily Record:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542187 (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542187)
By Carole Hawkins, Contributing Writer
(http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/storyimages/1391784467paneldiscussionphotopage3.jpg)
Trendy restaurants and shops are the revitalization pieces that bring character to an urban core. But for some, the experience of creating that character in Jacksonville doesn't appear to be much fun.
Two Jacksonville retailers and a developer had little love for city government processes Thursday as they talked about the experience of developing infill properties.
Ben Davis, owner of Intuition Ale Works; John Valentino, owner of four Mellow Mushroom franchises; and Michael Balanky, president of Chase Properties Ltd., unleashed frustrations at a panel discussion, as fellow panel member Alexandra Rudzinski, director of development for the city's Office of Economic Development, listened.
The goal of the event, sponsored by the International Council of Shopping Centers' Next Generation committee, was to bring developers, retailers and the city together to talk about how to optimize development while working with local government, historic designations and neighborhood overlays.
But the group got stuck at the first step — agreeing on the problem.
Davis runs a craft brewery
and tap room, a business that straddles two different zoning categories. He said the city is often punitive toward his operation.
"I think there's a lot of antagonism when you deal with the city," he said. "When you open up your first week and you're almost in tears because you're scared you're not going to get your state permit to sell your beer, and the next day you have somebody coming up from the city, telling you they're going to fine you for every sign you have up, it doesn't put you on the right foot.
"If I treated my customers the way my interactions with the city are, I wouldn't be in business."
Valentino was similarly disappointed in the city.
He had already owned three successful Mellow Mushroom franchises in the suburbs. But to get his fourth opened –– an infill project in Avondale –– he had to struggle for two years with a neighborhood group that opposed it for having too little parking.
"There really is no one in the city, outside of the Planning Department, that will help you navigate and get you where you need to be," he said. "I had to hire an attorney."
Rudzinski told Valentino that developers would always be challenged by their environment and needed to be aware of whether they are the right fit for a neighborhood.
That idea, though, fell flat.
"You're almost saying if someone wants to buy the house next to you, they can't because they're not the right fit," Valentino said. "If someone can delay you from opening for two years, then that's what's not the right fit."
Balanky said the public should have a voice in development. But long-drawn-out delays can gut a real estate deal.
"When I developed, I had a great rapport with the city. But there are repercussions to delay, delay, delay," he said. "We had over 15 public meetings. It went on ad nauseum. If we had contained that in 30 days, we wouldn't have ended up any differently. But it would have saved a lot of sleepless nights."
All four did agree that urban infill development is coming back strong and Jacksonville is poised for the opportunity.
QuoteRudzinski told Valentino that developers would always be challenged by their environment and needed to be aware of whether they are the right fit for a neighborhood.
Hmmm.......not the best answer for a city wanting to successfully compete economically in the 21st century.
What's a "right fit" for a vacant weed choked parking lot made up of a former historic building foundation?
Just curious.
There seems to be a big difference between the larger developers and the smaller ones like represented here. Jacksonville bends over backwards for the larger ones and yet somehow allows the "public" to almost stop Mellow Mushroom.
Frankly, we complain that no public input is allowed for some things and then seem to complain that too much public input is allowed on others. We can't have it both ways and get the change we say we want for Jacksonville. If we want public input, sometimes that input is going to hurt, like with Mellow Mushroom. But to have no input, the federal dollars coming in to Jacksonville will continue to be abused and we will never have a mobility fee and the urban core will remain as it is.
Quote from: stephendare on February 07, 2014, 09:53:23 PM
Its not a very accurate summation of the meeting.
Although Alex did say that.
There was almost no disagreement about the problem however.
Actually, even just agreeing on the problem is a huge step forward in Jacksonville politics. One small step towards the goal.
The crap small businesses put up with in Jax makes me want to run for mayor! ;)
It seems the city goes out of its way, to be in the way, in a lot of ways.
Its like they are terrified they are not going to get "their cut" of the pie, so they have to be as punitive as possible- to rack up the fees so they get "their cut".
We pay for business licenses!?! We pay regulatory fees, and all manner of nickle and dime filing fees. We pay them to become legit business owners- but maybe they feel that the small guys need "to be watched" more that the big guys- which is a flawed bias, based on perceived money spent on the city.
Is there a live-blog or transcript of this meeting? I would have liked to attend this!
I am a new small business and refuse to open an office in Jacksonville for just this reason. I will stay in Clay County/Orange Park.
I opened a business here in 1983 and had absolutely no problems then or later with the city. I built a building for manufacturing that was in an area zoned for it; got the proper building permits, passed all the inspections, got a business license and kept going. Even got a permit for an on-site sign with no problem.
However, I did my homework in advance and knew the steps to take so didn't trip over the unknown.
Were (or is) your business in a Historic District?
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 09, 2014, 11:48:09 AM
However, I did my homework in advance and knew the steps to take so didn't trip over the unknown.
What about if you have a use that's basically an unknown in our archaic zoning code and you can't afford Paul Harden to write your legislation for you? In my case, I had to apply for a PUD because the use I wanted didn't exist in Jax's code. Doing the homework, may reveal you're better off not even investing in Jax because of the mess you'll have to deal with in City Hall. However, that solution doesn't work if you are of a mindset to invest in enhancing the town you live in.
Quote from: IrvAdams on February 09, 2014, 11:54:40 AM
Were (or is) your business in a Historic District?
I don't think that there is anything in the Historic Districts that is zoned for manufacturing. It was actually in an industrial park.
Are Jacksonville's requirements for building in an Historic District actually that much more odious than the requirements for building in the historic districts or St. Augustine or Charleston or New Orleans? ( Scratch that last. In NO you just pay someone off. )
There are a lot of interests, both money and power, invested in the status quo of red tape that makes it difficult and expensive to start and maintain a small business especially in the core. Didn't local leaders learn anything from their trip to Houston? I'll bet you could start your business there, right in the middle of downtown, for a small fraction of the time and compliance costs you need here.
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 09, 2014, 01:10:36 PM
Quote from: IrvAdams on February 09, 2014, 11:54:40 AM
Were (or is) your business in a Historic District?
I don't think that there is anything in the Historic Districts that is zoned for manufacturing. It was actually in an industrial park.
Are Jacksonville's requirements for building in an Historic District actually that much more odious than the requirements for building in the historic districts or St. Augustine or Charleston or New Orleans? ( Scratch that last. In NO you just pay someone off. )
Our block is zoned light industrial so is Bold City's building.
Quote from: stephendare on February 09, 2014, 11:51:20 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 09, 2014, 11:48:09 AM
I opened a business here in 1983 and had absolutely no problems then or later with the city. I built a building for manufacturing that was in an area zoned for it; got the proper building permits, passed all the inspections, got a business license and kept going. Even got a permit for an on-site sign with no problem.
However, I did my homework in advance and knew the steps to take so didn't trip over the unknown.
I dont think your businesses would be legal under the current overlay would they?
If as Ben says, his area is zoned light industrial then yes, I could have expanded in the District. I actually wanted to stay in the Riverside area since this was where I started (not in the District), but could not find a piece of vacant land big enough and did not want to tear something down. Had to have a custom building due to the nature of the products.
Second business could have gone anywhere that allowed a business and was served by UPS and FedX since no manufacturing was involved.
Again, do we have regulations in our historic districts that is different from those in other historic districts.
The whole zoning, planning, and permitting process can be complicated, time consuming, and frustrating to business owners, especially if there are public hearings involved. A city the size of Jax should probably have about 2 employees solely dedicated to easing the process and making the city business friendly, and I don't mean additional planners, reviewers, etc. For instance St. Johns County has an employee in their Growth Management Department whose primary job focus is serving as project liaison between applicants and staff. If the applicant hits a stumbling block they can then contact the project liaison for assistance and work to move things forward.
One of the single biggest problems at the local government level imo is that there are probably about 3-5 completely worthless lower level admin positions, for every actual position of importance that is needed and doesn't exist. So instead of having people on staff to ease this process, COJ probably has admin people who do 10 hours of work a week and socialize the other 30 hours a week.
When I had to do business with St. Johns County, they uploaded copies of all the plans, permits, applications and forms to an ftp site so I could download and save the trip down to their office.
I submitted everything electronically; made an appointment, and everything was ready for me when I arrived with copies on a CD for me to take with me. They are apparently doing all of this with a fraction of the staff as well.
Oh, and, they actually answer the phone.
A totally different experience from Duval County.
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 10, 2014, 09:56:37 AM
Again, do we have regulations in our historic districts that is different from those in other historic districts.
When I made my comment about our zoning regulations needing to be updated and revamped, I was talking about the city in its entirety. Right now, we have an autocentric, one size fits all-based system. As the globe and technology around us continues to change, our system becomes more archaic. For example, the metal building Family Dollar puts up in the burbs should have not been allowed at Myrtle & Kings in New Town. That's like putting it up in the middle of the Shoppes of Avondale, from a historical and contextual perspective. Same goes for new construction live/work lofts and craft breweries that feature tap rooms and host community oriented events. Such uses didn't exist when we developed the system we have in place.
Zoning is an important planning tool, but it's disappointing to see it being used to limit and even obstruct innovation. In particular when those innovative uses fit perfectly with the spirit of what zoning was meant to accomplish. When the only reasoning coming from the city representatives is "well, YOU should make sure your idea fits into our box", we have a problem.
There is a pretty large area of Historic Springfield that was zoned Light Industrial. Somewhere around 25 to 30 contributing properties (houses) are within that area. It was done to create a buffer zone but has caused problems for those houses and the city will not help you with those problems. In fact, my experience with some in the planning department (Sean Kelly mostly) is that they like to interpret things "their" way regardless of what the code actually says. IE, they sent MCC out to red tag our rental because SPAR complained we were using it for residential without wanting to realize that there were lots more in the same position and that you can continue to use a residential structure in Light Industrial as residential by right. Light Industrial zoning is not handled in any way by the Overlay, it truncates back to regular zoning. But of course, the Historic Guidelines still apply.
Also in Springfield is the Commercial Neighborhood - Springfield (CN-S) zoning that actually allows mixed use by right. Though it is not very common.
One of the improvements made by the new zoning overlay in the RA Historic District is that it now allows for mixed use which was prohibited before. We had to get an exemption to put our home in a commercial business before this was passed although the building had historically had an apartment above it.
Not all of the changes were bad.
QuoteNothing is all bad, but I think that the past few years of bullying and abuse are pretty good evidence that these overlays have been fundamentally flawed.
Bullying? Try enforcing. Mojos should never have been allowed into the Shoppes of Avondale without providing more parking. No advocates on either side were watching that unfold. What did they receive, like 6 parking spots for the 3 store fronts they used?
Where were the advocates (on both sides) when Bold Bean wanted to put a roasting and coffee house in at Stockton and College? We talk about cars in Avondale, where are the ticket police there on Stockton or Forbes to look for those who come in and stay for hours? How about the same attention for the masses who hang out at Starbucks with their cars buried in parking spots for hours on Margaret Street? Did Aardwolf have as difficult a time where they are located? Sure its San Marco, but its next to railroad tracks and a good ways from residences.
If I were looking to open up a hip cool business that needed parking. The future with the City Planning will be interesting. With all these results, new owners may need to move to a shopping center to get the parking needed to be rewarded the Certificate of Occupancy.
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 10, 2014, 03:29:49 PM
If I were looking to open up a hip cool business that needed parking. The future with the City Planning will be interesting. With all these results, new owners may need to move to a shopping center to get the parking needed to be rewarded the Certificate of Occupancy.
And, I believe this is what Ennis referred to as our car centric zoning. If we want urban development, we have to be willing to accommodate different ways to deal with traffic and foster different modes of transportation.
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 10, 2014, 03:29:49 PM
Mojos should never have been allowed into the Shoppes of Avondale without providing more parking.
Really? Why do you say that? What provision in the ordinance code would have required that Mojo's provide additional parking?
I believe that if you look at the regular zoning code and compare it to the overlays, you will find that the overlay is what removes a lot of the parking requirements. It is what the advocates for the overlays wanted. And what the historic buildings needed so that they could be reasonably used. It is just that with success in today's market, cars come with it and the overlays do not account for success. They do sort of assume mass transit as that is what was in place when the areas were built. And what is needed again today. Frankly, even if Jacksonville started down the right path for street car and better transit between urban core areas right now, it would not come fast enough to avoid major parking issues for many years to come.
It is not the overlay that is bad, it is how they are being interpreted rather than simply put to use. Like Mojos, the overlay allows for few spaces and yet the public thinks it should not be there unless it could have more spaces. The building would not be in use if more parking was required of businesses like Mojos. The public tried to re-interpret the overlay with Mellow Mushroom and succeeded to some extent and so they got more spaces than the business would have been required to have under the overlay as written. Items that are a legal use by exception that people like get in without difficulty. When the people do not like it, there is a cry that it will destroy the overlay and is an illegal use. Some uses that are legal by right get labeled as illegal and fought against. Like I said, Overlays are not bad, but the interpretations often are.
QuoteAnd what the historic buildings needed so that they could be reasonably used.
Based on the simple math, the overlays are a failure as they relate to parking. There is no way a Jacksonville neighborhood can handle the cars of 150-200 people who stay 2-3 hours on most nights. The neighborhood was not built for that demographic or that amount of traffic. Mojos has 6 parking spots, MM 18. Unless JTA gives away free rides to the district, the overlay is a failure. The only way to resolve this is to meter the parking spots to force people to use public transportation. A lot of church parking lots are beginning to look like good places for businesses to partner.
The overlay will continue to fail residents and owners of properties until it is changed to realistically handle issues with parking.
Don't think Code Enforcement has not had their hand in this, they were out re-striping St. Johns Avenue and writing tickets yesterday. It would appear that this is all designed as a money maker for the city in the end.
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 11, 2014, 09:47:09 AM
Based on the simple math, the overlays are a failure as they relate to parking. There is no way a Jacksonville neighborhood can handle the cars of 150-200 people who stay 2-3 hours on most nights. The neighborhood was not built for that demographic or that amount of traffic. Mojos has 6 parking spots, MM 18. Unless JTA gives away free rides to the district, the overlay is a failure. The only way to resolve this is to meter the parking spots to force people to use public transportation.
The overlay will continue to fail residents and owners of properties until it is changed to realistically handle issues with parking.
Well, if you say it's the only way, must be the only way then.
How about instead we attempt to improve public transportation and alternate modes of transportation so that they become so enticing people will select them as an option or want to use them?
Sounds like a lot of the Shoppes of Avondale should be heavy backers of the Mobility Plan. Bike lanes on St. Johns Ave, streetcar down King street, Bike lanes connecting Brooklyn and the shoppes down Riverside Ave? Judging by the use of the bike racks at MM, I'd say there is a huge opportunity for that exists here.
Even forgot about the trolley. Coming over from downtown, the trolley let me park down in five points off the main streets and catch the trolley over to the Shoppes. Didn't take up a single spot.
But I guess I see your point about metered parking being the only way.
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 11, 2014, 09:47:09 AM
QuoteAnd what the historic buildings needed so that they could be reasonably used.
Based on the simple math, the overlays are a failure as they relate to parking. There is no way a Jacksonville neighborhood can handle the cars of 150-200 people who stay 2-3 hours on most nights. The neighborhood was not built for that demographic or that amount of traffic. Mojos has 6 parking spots, MM 18. Unless JTA gives away free rides to the district, the overlay is a failure. The only way to resolve this is to meter the parking spots to force people to use public transportation. A lot of church parking lots are beginning to look like good places for businesses to partner.
The overlay will continue to fail residents and owners of properties until it is changed to realistically handle issues with parking.
Don't think Code Enforcement has not had their hand in this, they were out re-striping St. Johns Avenue and writing tickets yesterday. It would appear that this is all designed as a money maker for the city in the end.
I have problems with the overlay; however, I live within the overlay and do not feel it has failed me from a parking perspective.