Fight underway to save Jacksonville from itself
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If you care about Jacksonville ever having safe bike lanes and sidewalks, this message from the Bicycle & Pedestrian Advisory Committee (BPAC) highlights why time is of essence in saving what's left of the City of Jacksonville's 2030 Mobility Plan and Fee.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-feb-fight-underway-to-save-jacksonville-from-itself
Go BPAC!
Emails sent. I should get out of work early today. I believe I can make this one.
E-mails were sent and a reply stated that it is going to be deferred at least two cycles? Can this be confirmed?
Also, I was sent a list of amendments. Can we find out who in the Planning Department is writing the positive spin on this ordinance?
At the TEU meeting yesterday, the Planning Director and staff presented a 5 page review of the proposed amendment. It was briefly explained by Mr. Smith. The council members had not had any time to review it and the developer lawyers had not seen it either. Neither had any of us opposing the bill.
There were some critical remarks from a few council members about who would decide what was a transportation improvement, etc. The committee decided that it would need time to review and the Planning Department would take into account the comments made by the council members. Mr. Burney agreed it would take two rounds(cycles) to get it reworked and present it to the developers for their take on it.
However, LUZ will still be having public comments today - regardless. Comments early in meeting.
JACKSONVILLE NEEDS TO TAKE BICYCLE AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY AS A SERIOUS ISSUE.
How is it so difficult for our bubba city council to understand that competitive cities in American are cities that are becoming safer and more bicycle and pedestrian friendly?
Does anyone know if there's a list of pedestrian/bike accidents in duval? I'd love to map all of them. I think seeing them all mapped out would be pretty shocking.
I think there was another death last week.
Being a competitive cyclist I love bike lanes but being in the civil engineering business I know that concurrency, fair share or mobility fees can kill a project. My opinion is the City will misappropriate this money anyway. Jax's homegrown mega-companies WILL have their way. I've worked for most of them, they don't hear the word "NO" and they don't lose. I'll spend my energy on my bike thank you (on St. Johns County roads)
I'm new to Metro Jax....when does the hate begin ?
Quote from: stephendare on February 04, 2014, 01:40:13 PM
A project which needs to externalize its own cost to the point that it cant afford to contribute to the infrastructure necessary to support it is unsustainably expensive for the taxpayers who are forced to foot the bill.
+1000. If covering the cost of your project's negative impact on the adjacent public infrastructure network is too much to bare, you never had a viable project to begin with. Instead, you've created a proforma where you're counting on public subsidies to make your numbers work.
@coredumped:
Look here on page 6 for a map of bike/bed crashes by severity:
http://www.northfloridatpo.com/images/uploads/docs/Appendix_C_CrashSeverityMaps.pdf (http://www.northfloridatpo.com/images/uploads/docs/Appendix_C_CrashSeverityMaps.pdf)
Don't give away the farm city council. Just like 7-Eleven was going to build anyway so will the Davis Family. You are just giving Jax away if you bend on this.
Quote from: stephendare on February 04, 2014, 01:40:13 PM
Much of St. John's County is just Regency of forty years ago. Cheaply built, unthought out and totally dependent on the fickle fortunes of people willing to spend themselves into debt to provide the brief illusion of success.
It wont age well, and at some point, the party is over.
Some of us remember when the apartment complex of Century 21 was considered a luxury lifestyle community.
What a laugh.
I don't always agree with you stephendare but your characterization of St John's is spot on. Well said. And yes I remember when Century 21 was the place to be.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 04, 2014, 02:31:44 PM
Quote from: stephendare on February 04, 2014, 01:40:13 PM
A project which needs to externalize its own cost to the point that it cant afford to contribute to the infrastructure necessary to support it is unsustainably expensive for the taxpayers who are forced to foot the bill.
+1000. If covering the cost of your project's negative impact on the adjacent public infrastructure network is too much to bare, you never had a viable project to begin with. Instead, you've created a proforma where you're counting on public subsidies to make your numbers work.
Straight to the heart of the matter!
At LUZ. Developers to the left. Mere mortals on the right. Evenly matched numbers. Ordinance will be deferred but public hearing is open. Moved to the end of the agenda
I got hung up at work. Wish I could have been there. Whats happening/happened?
Up now. Hold on
I think the developers have dreamed up something so complicated that no one could possibly follow it
Staff is giving their report. We need to post a copy of that. Lots of talk of credits and credit selling
Bill bishop blasting planning staff report. "They don't know what they are talking about "
Bishop explains th original intent of the mobility fee.
He is saying the project list is outdated.
He says purpose of new ordinance is to provide flexibility
He seems to have a lot of faith in developers Although he says it still has to pass muster with the planning dept. (of course the same people he just blasted as the beginning of his discourse )
Bishop believes that the developers will do wonderful things for Jacksonville
"Let's think outside the box" says bishop
The other council members have now lost the will to live
"A lot of hype out there ". Says bishop
Redman speaks for bikes
Schellenberg wonders how people can understand the bill if the planning department doesn't understand it either
Bishop now says developers will fall to lowest common denominator.
I read the urban core cpac letter of opposition
Sierra Club is speaking in opposition
Bishop smacks down Linda Benner. Not a smart move on his part. She is a smart cookie
The speaker stated to bishop that the mobility fee was outside the box thinking. It was award winning for thinking outside the box
Lawyer for BPAC boldly criticizes bishop and his plan.
Lumb stumbles trying to trip up the lawyer
Redman helps the lawyer out
Just left. Bishop should know 'Thinking outside the box' is working well for downtown right now:)
I wonder who got to Bishop and with what. Whatever it is I hope he enjoys it.
Quote from: sheclown on February 04, 2014, 06:27:38 PM
He is saying the project list is outdated.
He says purpose of new ordinance is to provide flexibility
From a technical standpoint, was it explained how an entire 2030 project list is out of date in 2014?
I wonder if they are being presented as out of date because someone has lobbied for their own personal project, which just happens to not be on the list?
Quote from: sheclown on February 04, 2014, 06:31:32 PM
Bishop believes that the developers will do wonderful things for Jacksonville
Quote from: sheclown on February 04, 2014, 06:32:26 PM
"Let's think outside the box" says bishop
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We must live in two different Jacksonvilles. We've been spreading our legs wide eagle to the development community for 50 years now and the entire urban core has literally died as a result. No many of our first ring suburbs are falling apart as well.
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Has it been explained how this propose qualifies as "thinking outside of the box?" Because what's been proposed can be called many things, but innovative and thinking out of the box would not qualify as accurate characteristics.
well the list is out of date in that the 2030 Mobility Plan nor the 2035 North Florida TPO LRTP included major development on the Davis ranch....of course that's because the family hadn't shown much of an interest in developing it before.
If the only demerit to the plan is "lack of flexibility" especially after only a few years have transpired, then it isn't the plan, it is someones perception of it.
Short sighted politicos stealing from the strategic to feed the tactical. That may work for re-election, but it doesn't work well for your community.
COJ needs to just get over themselves, set up a UPL and spend their collective energies restoring what we already have instead of trying to reinvent utopia 30 miles away. Start appealing to developers who have urban and TOD development experience.
What is wrong with this place? Why doesn't anyone want to stick with a plan?
The fact that we even have to go to the developers to get their approval exemplifies the root of the problem. This city is about as poorly designed as they come. We came up with a brilliant, award winning plan to try and fix it, and the city council sold their souls to developers before the ink had dried. If our Mayor wasn't such a passive failure, he would be out standing up for the citizens and putting a stop to this nonsense. I'm so over this city and how backwards it is. It's one short-sighted decision after another; a true lack of leadership throughout.
Quote from: sheclown on February 04, 2014, 06:27:38 PM
He is saying the project list is outdated.
This statement proves one of our fears about the new revisions. If you open Pandora's box with this ordinance, suddenly you'll be reviewing every single piece of development. And now those new developments alternate plans will suddenly show how "outdated" the mobility plan list is.
Quote
"Let's think outside the box" says bishop
Wow!
How do you define "thinking outside of the box"? How do you break that down from a technical standpoint?
Would building a full blown expressway with public money through someone's property (with an overpass for a future interchange) be an example of "thinking outside of the box"?
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So, this $170 million investment isn't enough?
What an insult, a slap in the face to the city planners who researched and the CPACs and residents who came to meetings and said what they wanted to see to fix their roads and their neighborhoods. In essence - your wants, your priorities are outdated, not innovative, not flexible.
Quote from: sheclown on February 04, 2014, 06:37:13 PM
Schellenberg wonders how people can understand the bill if the planning department doesn't understand it either
Bishop now says developers will fall to lowest common denominator.
Pretty much sums it up. :o >:( :-\
Is it standard and normal for a powerful lobbyist to write new legislation? And when he does, does he do it for free? Did us taxpayers pay him? Do we know who did?
It does say legislation prepared by Paul Harden. Why would anyone ever think that an ordinance having anything to do with the group that is most often Mr harden's clients does anything but help the developers in way that will ultimately hurt us?
Just once, I would like to remain proud of Jacksonville for longer than one day....
Quote from: strider on February 05, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
Is it standard and normal for a powerful lobbyist to write new legislation? And when he does, does he do it for free?
very much so....and no
Lobbyists and advocates are usually the ones to write legislation....and then they get a legislator (in this case councilman) to sponsor the bill
Quote from: stephendare on February 06, 2014, 12:33:30 AM
It is not ideal for lobbyists to be writing bills, no matter how common it might be in TUFSU's profession.
Nobody said it was ideal...or even preferred
Also was not aware that I am a registered lobbyist....or that urban planners generally are.
So then WE can write new legislation that increases the cost of the mobility fees and redirects that extra money to eventually fund street car? Of course, getting someone to sponsor that bill would be the trick, would it not? And why would a council person sponsor a bill written by a lobbyist that is being paid by the very people the bill will benefit? (Because why else would you pay to have it written unless you benefited in some profitable way?) I can list only one or two plausible reasons, none of which have anything to do with what is best for the public at large.
Just for once, I would like to see plain basic common sense applied to situations like this. In this case we have a bill that basically guts the award winning mobility plan and was written by a lobbyist paid for the people who simply want to control the fees for their own profit. Common sense says that this bill is not in the best interests of the public, it says it is not going to further the goals of the 2030 plan nor improve the future of Jacksonville in any way and that the only reason anyone will pay a lobbyist to write a bill like this is that they will profit by the results of the bill a lot more than it costs them. Anyone thinking this bill deserves any debate or real consideration is not using common sense, they are going with greed and ego.
Like I said, wouldn't it be nice to be proud of Jacksonville once in a while?
Paul Harden almost always gets what his client wants. Never something that helps the city.
Quote from: mbwright on February 06, 2014, 08:00:09 AM
Paul Harden almost always gets what his client wants. Never something that helps the city.
Well, then lets save the city a bunch of time and money on its political elections and staff salaries and just go to the developers in the first place.
That would also save us average every-day citizens the energy scraped together, after a long day's work, to sit in city council chambers night after night on the same topic.
Quote from: mbwright on February 06, 2014, 08:00:09 AM
Paul Harden almost always gets what his client wants. Never something that helps the city.
Could we at least ask that when he writes the city's legislation he does so in a manner in which the staff can understand? Its embarrassing otherwise.
Here's an interesting thought. If a councilman works with the office of General Council to write a bill, all of the correspondence leading up to that bill is public record. If a councilmen or other city employee, even just a member of a citizen committee, uses their personal e-mail for something related, all of their personal e-mail becomes public record.
I think we can also see that ordinances are supposed to be written for the good of the public otherwise, why have them to begin with? So it follows that anyone who writes an ordinance is doing it for the public good (in theory anyway) and therefore they are defacto employees of the general public. That should mean that all of the correspondence relating to this ordinance written for the public by Mr Harden regardless of the format or whether it was to a council person or his clients should be public record. I would think names and some personal information would have to be redacted, but the meat of the correspondence should be available to the public. It would make very interesting reading I'm sure.
What Jacksonville needs is a Kevlar armored bicycle-tank, in full camouflage .
Seriously, pass the blame to the Federal Government, it's the US Route 17 "Roosevelt Blvd" that needs the Bike Lanes and Sidewalks.