Urban Construction Update - January 2014
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3027659351_8Mdv83p-M.jpg)
Major construction projects have returned to the landscape of Jacksonville's urban core. Find out where (and more) as we take a brief look at the status of various developments under construction in and around Downtown Jacksonville during the month of January.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jan-urban-construction-update-january-2014
Thanks for the update. Any truth to the rumor of a kayak launch at the new $15,000,000 Southbank Riverwalk redo next to MOSH? How cool would that be.
Re: 20: is anyone sure the old Caribbean Connection is being turned into a bar? I saw a construction notice on the door and it said "improvements for sandwich shop"...
Re: #40: that picture is taking from the wrong angle. Chase is moving in where Wilson & Wilson currently is. Wilson & Wilson is then moving to the corner shown in the picture. Wilson & Wilson once owned the building but sold it to Chase.
The Downtown Cigar Lounge is now open
Silver Cow is also open. Also, the 2nd screen at Sunray is open and showing films.
Also, the Southbank Riverwalk has progressed considerably. I haven't been over there in a while, but the actual reconstruction was supposed to start in December. I know the demo is well on its way.
http://www.jaxfountain.com/ (http://www.jaxfountain.com/) has some decent updates through October.
I hope Silver Cow installs some awnings and a nice sign--If I hadn't read it was open here, I would probably walk right past the place now without going in thinking it was just part of one of the stores next door.
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on January 23, 2014, 10:07:28 AM
I hope Silver Cow installs some awnings and a nice sign--If I hadn't read it was open here, I would probably walk right past the place now without going in thinking it was just part of one of the stores next door.
I walked by the place and
still couldn't tell they were open!
Quote from: ben says on January 23, 2014, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on January 23, 2014, 10:07:28 AM
I hope Silver Cow installs some awnings and a nice sign--If I hadn't read it was open here, I would probably walk right past the place now without going in thinking it was just part of one of the stores next door.
I walked by the place and still couldn't tell they were open!
Maybe there's a secret knock you have to use, followed by the password?
With regards to the parking garage going in next to the SunTrust Building... Does anyone know what the current occupancy rate of the building is? Just curious as to how far away they are from 60% occupancy to add the retail component of the garage.
^^^Wha?? They're building an entire garage for a small ~300,000 SF building that isn't even 60% full and likely has no prospects? Even with other partially filled garages within 1-2 blocks??? Not to mention, they don't have to build the useless floorplate retail in the garage until the building is 60% full?
I guess I knew that, but reminders of how backwards the city actually is are never fun to bear.
Speaking of, thanks for the update, but this is really a boring update. There appears to hardly be anything actually under construction in the core, aside from the apartments in Brooklyn, one of which is wrapping up and the other of which is just now finally after so long getting going (both of which are sadly novel for Jax but boring now, yawn, because the same building has already been built in Charlotte's core 20x over, etc). The YMCA - why is that taking so long?
I'm seeing with my own eyes where I live whole 55 story towers get built to completion in less time that it takes for Pulp Juice to finish in Avondale, or actually any of these projects. They are ALL moving more slowly than any projects I've seen anywhere. I'm seeing more tumbleweeds in these pictures than people or construction equipment.
Didn't the Haydon Burns Library remodeling just have a symbolic groundbreaking?
Quote from: ben says on January 23, 2014, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on January 23, 2014, 10:07:28 AM
I hope Silver Cow installs some awnings and a nice sign--If I hadn't read it was open here, I would probably walk right past the place now without going in thinking it was just part of one of the stores next door.
I walked by the place and still couldn't tell they were open!
They also have a terrible website.
http://silvercowjax.com/
Everything is either blank or says "Coming Soon".
Looks ok
I have two concerns about 22 Riverside Ave.
The building is made entirely out of wood. What happens in the event of a fire in one of the units?
With a wood frame, what happens in the event of a hurricane?
Quote from: copperfiend on January 23, 2014, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: ben says on January 23, 2014, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on January 23, 2014, 10:07:28 AM
I hope Silver Cow installs some awnings and a nice sign--If I hadn't read it was open here, I would probably walk right past the place now without going in thinking it was just part of one of the stores next door.
I walked by the place and still couldn't tell they were open!
They also have a terrible website.
http://silvercowjax.com/
Everything is either blank or says "Coming Soon".
This isn't surprising. Social media—Facebook, Twitter, etc.—is so much easier and quicker a way to let people know what's going on with your business. Keeping a "regular" website is good for search-engine purposes and is generally used just to redirect people to their social-media pages.
Quote from: urbaknight on January 23, 2014, 03:30:29 PM
I have two concerns about 22 Riverside Ave.
The building is made entirely out of wood. What happens in the event of a fire in one of the units?
With a wood frame, what happens in the event of a hurricane?
It would just burn down or blow over. It is highly unlikely the design process foresaw either of those possibilities.
^But they should have. This is Florida after all. I predict that they'll be destroyed somehow (preventably) and we'll have another empty lot for the urban core. I hope that doesn't happen. But we are overdue for a powerful hurricane.
220 Riverside isn't the first wood frame multi-story building in Florida or Jax. In the event of a fire, you'd hope your fire rated walls would hold up long enough to contain and put out the fire. In the event of a hurricane, you'd hope the structural engineer got their calculations right and that the hurricane straps, bracing, etc. perform as designed. I'm sure Brooklyn Riverside will be wood frame as well.
Here's an image of a wood frame apartment building going up in Los Angeles. They don't have hurricanes but they are earthquake prone.
(http://construction.com/CE/CE_images/2012/Mar_FII_1.jpg)
QuoteCost-effective, code-compliant and sustainable, mid-rise wood construction is gaining the attention of design professionals nationwide, who see it as a way to achieve higher density housing at lower cost—while reducing the carbon footprint of their projects. Yet, many familiar with wood construction for two- to four-story residential structures are not aware that the International Building Code (IBC) allows wood-frame construction for five stories and more in building occupancies that range from business and mercantile to multi-family, military, senior, student and affordable housing.
"Once designers know that wood offers all the required safety and structural performance capabilities and meets code requirements for mid-rise, the most appealing feature of wood tends to be its price," says Michelle Kam-Biron, P.E., S.E., a senior technical director with WoodWorks in California. "Multi-family housing was one of the first market segments to rebound from the recession—because it's more affordable than single-family housing while offering advantages such as less upkeep and, in most cases, closer proximity to amenities. Wood construction is attractive for multi-family projects because it offers a high percentage of rentable square footage at a relatively low cost, but its benefits are equally applicable to other occupancy types."
http://continuingeducation.construction.com/crs.php?L=285&C=883
Quote from: simms3 on January 23, 2014, 11:39:23 AM
^^^Wha?? They're building an entire garage for a small ~300,000 SF building that isn't even 60% full and likely has no prospects? Even with other partially filled garages within 1-2 blocks??? Not to mention, they don't have to build the useless floorplate retail in the garage until the building is 60% full?
I guess I knew that, but reminders of how backwards the city actually is are never fun to bear.
Speaking of, thanks for the update, but this is really a boring update. There appears to hardly be anything actually under construction in the core, aside from the apartments in Brooklyn, one of which is wrapping up and the other of which is just now finally after so long getting going (both of which are sadly novel for Jax but boring now, yawn, because the same building has already been built in Charlotte's core 20x over, etc). The YMCA - why is that taking so long?
I'm seeing with my own eyes where I live whole 55 story towers get built to completion in less time that it takes for Pulp Juice to finish in Avondale, or actually any of these projects. They are ALL moving more slowly than any projects I've seen anywhere. I'm seeing more tumbleweeds in these pictures than people or construction equipment.
Since you are so bored with pretty much everything about Jax, feel free to ignore the site and move on. And wow. Every post you make has to be about you. Certainly all about me, me me. Carry on.
I have been traveling around the country quite a bit lately and have seen so many wood high-rises going up in so many cities. I guess this is of the times.
Quote from: simms3 on January 23, 2014, 11:39:23 AM
^^^Wha?? They're building an entire garage for a small ~300,000 SF building that isn't even 60% full and likely has no prospects? Even with other partially filled garages within 1-2 blocks??? Not to mention, they don't have to build the useless floorplate retail in the garage until the building is 60% full?
I guess I knew that, but reminders of how backwards the city actually is are never fun to bear.
And yea pretty sure you knew about it since you made 35 comments in the actual thread about the garage.
^^^Someone has a heavy flow this month! Grrrr
Quote from: simms3 on January 23, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
^^^Someone has a heavy flow this month! Grrrr
Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I grew up with the "Jax sucks" discourse, so this is par for the course.
For the sake of keeping the forum civil, you may want to rethink how your comments come across. You know these guys are a sensitive bunch ;)
Quote from: simms3 on January 23, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
^^^Someone has a heavy flow this month! Grrrr
Good one girlfriend.
I hate to do this, but this is why I'm depressed:
State Attorney's Office renovationOctober 2012:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2177735920_TT6nK57-M.jpg)
This post, January 2014:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3027659584_PcKb657-M.jpg)
Total project size, just $26mm.
Goozlepipe & GuttyworksOctober 2012, with the caption
QuoteSitework for King Street's G&G continues.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2177734527_hJpr6sS-M.jpg)
January 2014, this post:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3027656986_6BgV4zn-M.jpg)
Pulp Juice BarOctober 2012, with the caption
QuotePulp is still in the process of moving forward with opening their second urban Jacksonville location at the Shops of Avondale.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2177735331_F6MBG4M-M.jpg)
January 2014, this post:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3027657445_DBP257g-M.jpg)
In fact, Pulp was first photo'd and reported on in the Urban Construction Updates back in July 2012, see below:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1993524354_nW9LTtF-M.jpg)
G&G was in that thread, too, but has been reported on even longer.
I know the effort Lake goes through to take these photos and to gather/compile the information to report on, monthly, because I do the same thing for whatever city I happen to be living in at the time on other websites, so I can appreciate his effort. However, both as someone who craves new development, and as a homer, it makes me cringe that for years now the bulk of our Construction Updates have been consumed by immaterial little store openings here and there (Firehouse Subs? Really?), that still take years to complete. There is very little meaningful construction, or anything really interesting. Neighborhood stores opening up in neighborhoods should be part of life - excitement "on the ground" for those in the neighborhood, but should never be the most interesting things going on in a million person city.
Here is a time comparison of a couple buildings here in SF for the comparison (because it seems to take 2x longer to open a store or build a formula Panera or stick frame hybrid apartment in Jax than it does to build full on skyscrapers elsewhere).
One Rincon Hill North Tower, 55 stories, 541 ft high.
November 12, 2012 by timbad on SSP:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8490/8177917132_2ef5cebddf_b.jpg)
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=199764&page=4
Today, a pic by yours truly (it's nearly done, took about 12 months to top off structural...and it has complexities, such as a Tuned Mass Damper at the top):
(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/SF%20Construction/SF%20Construction%20Jan%2023%202014/SFJanuary2014Construction017_zps1dea2d01.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/SF%20Construction/SF%20Construction%20Jan%2023%202014/SFJanuary2014Construction017_zps1dea2d01.jpg.html)
NEMA, a 22 story tower and 37 story tower with 754 rental units between them:
10/1/2012 also by timbad at SSP:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8170/8042520835_c37844a1b8_b.jpg)
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=128011&page=13
9/29/2013 by yours truly, the tower on the right - it's completed now, with half the units full:
(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/SF%20Construction%20Sep%2029/Mid-Market2_zpsebd98c12.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/SF%20Construction%20Sep%2029/Mid-Market2_zpsebd98c12.jpg.html)
535 Mission (27 story office), land sold in May 2013, ground broke in June/August, see my pic from 7/28/2013 below:
(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/535M1_zps8ad0e57f.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/535M1_zps8ad0e57f.jpg.html)
And pic from today, 1/23/14 (it basically took 5 months to top off):
(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/SF%20Construction/SF%20Construction%20Jan%2023%202014/5354_zps16c209f1.jpg) (http://s916.photobucket.com/user/jsimms3/media/SF%20Construction/SF%20Construction%20Jan%2023%202014/5354_zps16c209f1.jpg.html)
I'm just saying, if I didn't live in a construction filled city and didn't travel, and all I had to go off of was the monthly Jax Urban Construction thread, I would beat my head against a wall...I've been meaning to get this off my chest for a while and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. It's not for lack of Lake's awesome effort and superb reporting, but for lack of anything interesting going on!
To me, just because of the construction and not necessarily the type of construction, the SS updates are far more interesting than the urban updates. I look forward to them more. The Beaches updates are downright offensive and should be taken out of the mix altogether.
I come from an extremely corrupt city in the Northeast. The politics is not surprising. I think what hurts the most is Jacksonville's potential going to waste. I really have come to like the city over the years, so I guess I would like to see it thrive, especially since all our peer cities are wiping the floor with us.
They build quick in San Fran. Nice stuff
Quote from: simms3 on January 24, 2014, 02:17:23 AM
I'm just saying, if I didn't live in a construction filled city and didn't travel, and all I had to go off of was the monthly Jax Urban Construction thread, I would beat my head against a wall...I've been meaning to get this off my chest for a while and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. It's not for lack of Lake's awesome effort and superb reporting, but for lack of anything interesting going on!
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of urban infill and construction going on in Jax in comparison with larger and similar sized metropolitan areas. When we first started MJ, it used to bother me but I travel so much that over the years I've become somewhat immune. Jax has a ton of potential, but the city, the politics, the discussion, etc. is a decade or two behind everyone else when it comes to urbanism. Over the years, I think we'll be pulled kicking and screaming to embrace certain trends but Jax is what it is.
Speaking of wood framed apartments, here's a really interesting article about their use in downtown LA. Basically, if a developer wants to build over 75' they have to use steel and concrete. So what is happening is a lot of developers are building just under that threshold to avoid the extra costs and apparently steel and concrete construction doesn't become cost effective until 20 stories and up. So LA is seeing a lot of low-rise construction, but not much mid-rise, which is really needed to add the type of density to make it a walkable, transit oriented downtown like NYC, Chicago, etc.
http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/is-downtown-s-low-rise-building-spree-hurting-the-community/article_0e5f97ec-eb52-11e2-a694-0019bb2963f4.html
Jacksonville: "We're not San Francisco?"
I think Pulp Juice bar should be included in every construction update in the future, even after it is hopefully completed. It's become something I look forward to in the updates. It's the constant for which I compare all other changes in my life.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 24, 2014, 07:11:50 AM
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of urban infill and construction going on in Jax in comparison with larger and similar sized metropolitan areas. When we first started MJ, it used to bother me but I travel so much that over the years I've become somewhat immune. Jax has a ton of potential, but the city, the politics, the discussion, etc. is a decade or two behind everyone else when it comes to urbanism. Over the years, I think we'll be pulled kicking and screaming to embrace certain trends but Jax is what it is.
Exactly. During my first few visits to NYC as a teen I'd constantly compare Jax to Manhattan and come home depressed, but eventually I reached this zen like state of acceptance. I'm happy when we get a project going but unphased when we have our quiet spells. it's just, how it is here.
The upside is an individual can make more of a difference in this town. Where as in a larger city you'll get quickly swallowed up, here you can stand out more as an individual business. There's a certain closeness to the urban core that comes from it being so small.
Love it, hate it. That's the reality.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 24, 2014, 07:11:50 AM
Quote from: simms3 on January 24, 2014, 02:17:23 AM
I'm just saying, if I didn't live in a construction filled city and didn't travel, and all I had to go off of was the monthly Jax Urban Construction thread, I would beat my head against a wall...I've been meaning to get this off my chest for a while and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. It's not for lack of Lake's awesome effort and superb reporting, but for lack of anything interesting going on!
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of urban infill and construction going on in Jax in comparison with larger and similar sized metropolitan areas. When we first started MJ, it used to bother me but I travel so much that over the years I've become somewhat immune. Jax has a ton of potential, but the city, the politics, the discussion, etc. is a decade or two behind everyone else when it comes to urbanism. Over the years, I think we'll be pulled kicking and screaming to embrace certain trends but Jax is what it is.
+1
A couple things about wood buildings.
Wood construction often becomes cost prohibitive some where around the 75' level. Another reason than the LA codes.
Wood construction like the 22 Riverside building will have "fire seperation" built in. Basically it is fire walls and floor/ceiling systems utilizing UL rated assemblies to seperate floors and/or tenants. Most are gypsum board products on wood framing. Unfortunately those systems require maintenance of their integrity that often gets compromised. For example if you put a phone line through you have to sleeve the hole and fire caulk the penetration. Many "low voltage" contractors........or maintenance man ......knocks a hole through the system with a hammer and leaves the hole unfilled, sealed, etc. System no good after that.
Wood framing can be made to resist storm events. But like the fire walls the building must be "maintained" in original integrity or it won't work.
Quote from: CityLife on January 24, 2014, 08:29:57 AM
Speaking of wood framed apartments, here's a really interesting article about their use in downtown LA. Basically, if a developer wants to build over 75' they have to use steel and concrete. So what is happening is a lot of developers are building just under that threshold to avoid the extra costs and apparently steel and concrete construction doesn't become cost effective until 20 stories and up. So LA is seeing a lot of low-rise construction, but not much mid-rise, which is really needed to add the type of density to make it a walkable, transit oriented downtown like NYC, Chicago, etc.
http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/is-downtown-s-low-rise-building-spree-hurting-the-community/article_0e5f97ec-eb52-11e2-a694-0019bb2963f4.html
But if there is lots of available land, as indicated in the article, then it probably would be preferable to have the streets lined with dozens of mid rise buildings. That would really create better density than a couple isolated high-rises. (In LA, probably would be mostly occupied by part-timers too) In a few decades when the infill is complete it would make sense to replace some of the older buildings with high rise construction.
Quote from: David on January 24, 2014, 09:52:11 AM
Exactly. During my first few visits to NYC as a teen I'd constantly compare Jax to Manhattan and come home depressed, but eventually I reached this zen like state of acceptance. I'm happy when we get a project going but unphased when we have our quiet spells. it's just, how it is here.
The upside is an individual can make more of a difference in this town. Where as in a larger city you'll get quickly swallowed up, here you can stand out more as an individual business. There's a certain closeness to the urban core that comes from it being so small.
Love it, hate it. That's the reality.
Yeah, i agree. Except that from my personal experience I never even considered comparing Jax to Manhattan after many trips there. Wasn't even in the same universe in my mind. Not until I discovered metrojacksonville about five years ago while living in Chicago did I begin to think of my hometown as the unpolished gem that it is.
I wasn't trying to compare the level of activity in Jax to the level of activity in SF, but rather pointing out that in less time it takes to open a store here or renovate a building, in another city they can somehow put up 55 floors of concrete and glass. Sloooowwwwww progress.
The other point I was making was that we have been stuck in such a low in terms of activity now for years that the bulk of these construction updates consists of progress on a potential Firehouse Subs, or something super small. There is obviously no comparison to a large city, but what would be totally depressing is if we compared ourselves to a smaller city such as Charlotte, Austin, Nashville, or even Birmingham these days, which is seeing considerably more activity in its core than Jax with new apartments and building conversion/renovations, a new Westin hotel, etc etc.
I plan to keep doing the monthy updates but I'm also planning to bring back the development projects list (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=73930) that will only highlight major projects under construction or proposed. It will just take me some time to compile all the information and renderings into a presentable fashion.
Looks like you forgot to include the Commander redevelopment project in your list. According to the developer, it's a $40 million project.
It will be included in the new development projects list. The one linked above was started on another site in 2003 and last updated by me in 2005.
Simms, not sure why my project made the list of projects that depress you? I think most people that have seen the project first hand feel like the project is quite "un-Jacksonville-like"...whatever that means. I could write a book about the trials and tribulations that we have faced every single step of the way and why the construction has taken almost a year and the development has taken 3 years. But it shouldn't depress you. It depresses ME...let me handle the depression. You should be excited that someone has jumped a thousand hurdles to make a building that is extremely unique, embedded in a unique neigborhood, that our neighbors can be proud of and people will travel from other cities to visit. Building a 3 story, 14,000 square foot building on a single lot, in clay, attached and interwoven with a 90 year old (continually functioning) building, next door to a building that is turning and twisting and wanting to collapse under its own weight, connecting it's basement to the bedrock below, with a series of civil and political challenges a mile long takes time. Lots of it. The truth be told, we could have closed Kickbacks for a few months and maybe shaved a few weeks off the construction time but then our 65 employees would be out of work and our loyal customers might be "depressed", to borrow one of your words. Wink. It is my hope that the project will be a source of joy for our neighbors and friends (and hopefully you) and something to take people away from the real things out there to be depressed about.
Kickbacks and G&G excite me, not depress me. What depresses me is the lack of any "significant" construction projects in the core, and the time it takes to complete small projects (often not at all to the fault of the owner - it's just painful to see the slow progress in pictures, I want them all to be done! :). I work in real estate myself, and live for development. To see the same string of small neighborhood improvements in the Urban Core Construction Thread month in month out depresses me because I would rather see a downtown focused construction thread filled with tower cranes and major projects. That's just me.
I would love Jax to boom enough where perhaps we have individual neighborhood construction threads or more people occasionally posting pics of construction in their own neighborhood (that way it's not just Lake and everyone can contribute a little bit - perhaps you could create a G&G Updates thread with photo updates - that would be so kind and I believe that's better than forcing Lake to feel obligated every month to run all over town getting pictures of store openings and new bars and stuff). I follow certain contractors on Twitter just to see their construction updates on certain projects they're working on that I find interesting. In Jax, construction pics are a one man job, but the burden can be eased.
It's also fun to return home every now and again and be "surprised" by the latest opening or new place that people are going to. I don't get excited seeing monthly construction pics of store openings, Firehouse subs, Mellow Mushroom, home rehabs, etc. I want to come home and experience some of these things! FTR, your place would be at the top of my list and I have many fond memories at Kickbacks. I personally don't care one bit about MM and that whole thing disappoints me because it could have been so much better, so not only seeing it in person on a home visit would not excite me, seeing it in a construction thread doesn't, either. I think the owner seems like a great guy, but the city/locals/RAP/WLA screwed him over and I'm not a fan of MM pizza in general.
The street I live on has probably 100-200 bars, restaurants, and shops within blocks of me. I see shops and restaurants and bars come and go all the time. It's a neighborhood fact of life, not a "construction update". I post local construction pics in a similar format to Lake on another forum - I go for relatively significant infill and larger because it takes time and effort to snap pics, edit them to size, upload them, and post them in a viewable and readable format.
The only reason we are probably showing something like Pulp Juice opening in the Shoppes is because it fills up the update and there is nothing else significant going on. I hate boring architecture, suburban blandness, etc etc, but I love construction and development in general. For that reason, in a spit of irony, the SS Construction Update actually excites me. The average project going up in that update is much much larger than the Urban Core update. The Beaches update is downright offensive. Jax Beach is soooo painfully ugly and disgusting to look at it, I just don't even open those up anymore.
Maybe you could bring all your "big city development" knowledge, prowess, and influence here. Some may say for all the cheerleading of Atlanta and now San Francisco, that there would be some left for Jacksonville.
You could be the one to change how these urban construction updates lead you to a state of depression.
Quote from: David on January 24, 2014, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 24, 2014, 07:11:50 AM
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of urban infill and construction going on in Jax in comparison with larger and similar sized metropolitan areas. When we first started MJ, it used to bother me but I travel so much that over the years I've become somewhat immune. Jax has a ton of potential, but the city, the politics, the discussion, etc. is a decade or two behind everyone else when it comes to urbanism. Over the years, I think we'll be pulled kicking and screaming to embrace certain trends but Jax is what it is.
Exactly. During my first few visits to NYC as a teen I'd constantly compare Jax to Manhattan and come home depressed, but eventually I reached this zen like state of acceptance. I'm happy when we get a project going but unphased when we have our quiet spells. it's just, how it is here.
The upside is an individual can make more of a difference in this town. Where as in a larger city you'll get quickly swallowed up, here you can stand out more as an individual business. There's a certain closeness to the urban core that comes from it being so small.
Love it, hate it. That's the reality.
Well said.
To me, it's similar to how every working class person feels climbing the social strata is within their reach. It's not. Likewise, every city can't be booming. In tandem with our San Franciscos and Atlantas, we'll always have our Detroits and Rochesters. But even these cities have people who love them and who want to be a part of their positive change. No, none of us want to see Jacksonville stagnate, but that's just it. Nobody wants to see any city decline. It happens anyway. If we're to have these great boom towns, attracting people from all over the country and beyond, then we're logically to have the counterparts that repel, that act as population drains. And of course most places will be somewhere in between. If an average or below-average rate of growth or development is not something you can handle, it's probably best to move on, literally and figuratively.
Personally, I think rapid growth is a mixed blessing. I would argue that it's in this name that Jax has lost so much of its historical fabric. Savannah and Charleston wouldn't be what they are if they had ballooned up as rapidly as Atlanta or Charlotte. Without stagnation in the 16th and 17th centuries, cities like Ghent and Bruges in Belgium wouldn't be the revered collections of Medieval architecture that they are today. That's not to say Jacksonville compares to any of these places architecturally, rather that stagnation or decline are not death knells. There is some level of carelessness and loss of character that can result from growth worship.
Quote from: JaxNole on January 25, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Maybe you could bring all your "big city development" knowledge, prowess, and influence here. Some may say for all the cheerleading of Atlanta and now San Francisco, that there would be some left for Jacksonville.
You could be the one to change how these urban construction updates lead you to a state of depression.
Nicely put
Quote from: David on January 24, 2014, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 24, 2014, 07:11:50 AM
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of urban infill and construction going on in Jax in comparison with larger and similar sized metropolitan areas. When we first started MJ, it used to bother me but I travel so much that over the years I've become somewhat immune. Jax has a ton of potential, but the city, the politics, the discussion, etc. is a decade or two behind everyone else when it comes to urbanism. Over the years, I think we'll be pulled kicking and screaming to embrace certain trends but Jax is what it is.
Exactly. During my first few visits to NYC as a teen I'd constantly compare Jax to Manhattan and come home depressed, but eventually I reached this zen like state of acceptance. I'm happy when we get a project going but unphased when we have our quiet spells. it's just, how it is here.
The upside is an individual can make more of a difference in this town. Where as in a larger city you'll get quickly swallowed up, here you can stand out more as an individual business. There's a certain closeness to the urban core that comes from it being so small.
Love it, hate it. That's the reality.
+1
Quote from: JaxNole on January 25, 2014, 05:56:47 PM
Maybe you could bring all your "big city development" knowledge, prowess, and influence here. Some may say for all the cheerleading of Atlanta and now San Francisco, that there would be some left for Jacksonville.
You could be the one to change how these urban construction updates lead you to a state of depression.
Very nice. But my guess too much of a challenge.
I personally enjoy the Urban Construction updates, keep them up and thanks. I'm pleased with the progress of the area. I think we've come a long way, and look forward to more forward progress.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 24, 2014, 07:11:50 AM
Quote from: simms3 on January 24, 2014, 02:17:23 AM
I'm just saying, if I didn't live in a construction filled city and didn't travel, and all I had to go off of was the monthly Jax Urban Construction thread, I would beat my head against a wall...I've been meaning to get this off my chest for a while and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. It's not for lack of Lake's awesome effort and superb reporting, but for lack of anything interesting going on!
Unfortunately, there's not a lot of urban infill and construction going on in Jax in comparison with larger and similar sized metropolitan areas. When we first started MJ, it used to bother me but I travel so much that over the years I've become somewhat immune. Jax has a ton of potential, but the city, the politics, the discussion, etc. is a decade or two behind everyone else when it comes to urbanism. Over the years, I think we'll be pulled kicking and screaming to embrace certain trends but Jax is what it is.
Both good points.
Just want to throw this out there. Have there been any pictures of the huge road project that is the MLK Parkway? Huge eradication of building stock. Went down 8Th St. towards Talleyrand and it seems like more buildings have been leveled. And what is going on with Hogans Creek?
Are we just getting ready for a wave of new construction announcements?
Quote from: PeeJayEss on January 23, 2014, 09:07:31 AM
Also, the Southbank Riverwalk has progressed considerably. I haven't been over there in a while, but the actual reconstruction was supposed to start in December. I know the demo is well on its way.
http://www.jaxfountain.com/ (http://www.jaxfountain.com/) has some decent updates through October.
Is this really progressing? To me, it looks like they are behind schedule. I walk it nearly every day and haven't seen any activity since late November when that fence was erected and an adjacent vacant building was torn down.
All this nice Urban Core area, and developers are building hundreds of apartments near Atlantic and Kernan. Go figure that one out.
The MLK project is straightening the 90° curve and adding an interchange to provide better access to/from Talleyrand
^Please, show a few pics. It's MASSIVE. Talk about a disconnect for neighborhoods. It has to be worthy of its own update. Maybe it's on another thread. Has anyone been taking any pics of the before and after? I'll try and check out Hogans Creek. Appears to be a massive clear cut.
Where on Hogan's Creek is the clear-cutting?
Here is an earlier MJ thread: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-mar-major-urban-interchange-project-underway
And here is the FDOT web page about the project, doesn't look like they've updated the photo gallery since October 2012. tsk. http://www.northfloridaroads.com/projects/details.asp?ProjectID=502
I keep hearing things about the Publix in San Marco. It's not happening; it is happening; part of it's happening; it may be happening, yadda, yadda, yadda. Any definitive word? It's sorely needed and would be welcomed by many. I thought that with the exit of the St. Joe Co., it was not going to happen. Is that true?
I did see some zoning signs up now.
It also appears that they changed the signs in front of the property.
Thanks for these construction updates! Very informative.
Quote from: edjax on January 27, 2014, 03:34:34 PM
I did see some zoning signs up now.
Yes I noticed the signs for a public hearing the other day, these look pretty fresh.
Quote from: pwhitford on January 27, 2014, 03:28:23 PM
I keep hearing things about the Publix in San Marco. It's not happening; it is happening; part of it's happening; it may be happening, yadda, yadda, yadda. Any definitive word? It's sorely needed and would be welcomed by many. I thought that with the exit of the St. Joe Co., it was not going to happen. Is that true?
It's moving forward.
Quote from: acme54321 on January 27, 2014, 04:25:00 PM
Quote from: edjax on January 27, 2014, 03:34:34 PM
I did see some zoning signs up now.
Yes I noticed the signs for a public hearing the other day, these look pretty fresh.
Perhaps I think this was needed when changed from condos to apartments as it changed the number of units??
For what it's worth:
I like my leaky roof and ill kept lawn (there is a certain beauty to a little unkemptness). My family hails from the hills of West Virginia and the the fertile fields of central Ohio, but I am thankful that Florida is where we ended up. And of all the places in Florida, I very much appreciate that Jacksonville has become my hometown. I like the diversity of our history, the legacy of corruption, and the blue collar population. I think that there is a mixture of sincerity and authenticity that makes our city an interesting place to live. True, there are a lot of elements that make living in Jacksonville frustrating, but....the bigger picture tells me that from the inside looking out, we have it pretty good.
I don't like that we are so insecure that we believe that to be an interesting city we have to do x, y or z. We should be secure in knowing that Jacksonville is making progress, slow progress, but progress non the less. As I see it the self flagellation of constantly telling our selves that we are not worthy is getting old. It does no good. We should embrace our positive attributes, as well as, evaluate our negatives and realize that city building is a messy process. I for one thoroughly enjoy reading metrojax and have learned more about the history of Jacksonville here than anywhere else. I look forward to the Urban Construction Updates and all the other articles because I enjoy living in Jacksonville, for better or worse.
In summation, I think that there are certain cities suited for certain people. If you have a hair dresser and need constant stimulation to feel good about yourself, than maybe Jacksonville is not the place for you. But if your a little rough around the edges and not distracted by anything shiny than maybe Jacksonville's beautiful landscape, comfortable climate, laid back atmosphere and rich history is just the place for you. Anyways, I very much like reading metrojax and appreciate the hard work that goes into helping to inform the citizens of Jacksonville, keep up the good fight......Peace.
^Hear, hear! (Minus the hairdresser part, which I have a hunch would offend me if only I knew what it meant.)
construction on the southbank riverwalk has resumed, but the news about 1) no deal with crown plaza and 2) now it'll be half as long is very disappointing. http://www.news4jax.com/news/southbank-riverwalk-being-torn-down-wont-be-completed/-/475880/24355082/-/myv8qdz/-/index.html
Wow. That sucks. Is it possible to build the school board portion on ground and next to the river, instead of over it?
Why can't the City just tell Crown Plaza to get over themselves, and proceed with the Riverwalk? COJ ever hear of eminent domain? Or is that just for tearing down historic structures?
Has anyone heard what retail will be moving into the Five Points Village shopping center when its done? Same places as before (obviously not Firehouse) or all new places?