Sending Kids to Jail
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Interview with Hank Coxe and Gray Thomas on the sad state of our juvenile detention systems.
Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-jan-sending-kids-to-jail
Great Interview!
I want to be involved.
This has immediately motivated me to respond to Civil Citations and Notices to Appear.
I'm committed to our DIA (Downtown Incarceration Area)
I'm All In.
Will report back.
Again, Thank you for the discussion.
Negativism often gets cliched alot; Like OUR failing juvenile detention centers. Sometimes certain issues are very tough. I don't know any rosy perfect juvenile crime system.
If you are too lenient with these murdering kids, this country will go to hell in a handbasket; With young criminals taking total advantage of an unjust system. Most know right from wrong, so I don't buy that 'brain development hasn't matured, so give them a slap on the wrist'.
Just like the Makia Coney case, when those two thugs murdered her for 'a thrill'. Are those the types that you want in your society? That killer Charles Southern is trying to take advantage of the system (VIA stupid new liberal law) right now by not manning up and doing his time; I respect that other kid who isn't trying to seek leniency just because he was a juvenile. Be soft on them, and they will show no remorse. I'm glad that actionnews is on top of that Southern case.
Send the parents of the kids committing the crimes, to jail with them. Let them serve the sentences in con-currency. We don't need deadbeat parents soaking up resources in America. If you bring them into the world, show some responsibility or GET out of the country. Chicago will be a few million people less real quick!
Two crime scene vans are still on the scene. The Wyndham parking lot next to the Duval County School Board building. Shell casings around a vehicle. Roped off area. This is WJXT's hood. Anyone?
I am writing this post from out of town since I have a Nephew who lives in Jacksonville and has learning disability. He is on a several months waiting list to see a psychiatrist and he has recently quit high school. I am proposing a few ideas that I believe may help him and others to live independently. This post is to make people to think.
I believe our "war on drugs" can be better met if states were to greatly increase mental health care. They say they are finding the percent of people with depression runs much higher than they ever thought. People are simply "medicating" themselves of their depressions by way of illegal drugs as a result. Then a person cannot get a job since they have to give blood tests for drugs. They will then fail this test, thus they cannot get a job. Then they will end up into trouble. This will then also show up in their background. Then this will also prevent them from getting a job. And on and on it goes until you create a huge sub-culture of gangs and drugs, as a result.
Second, they ought to do research on whether high school dropouts and those who are homeless may be strong at learning by hands-on means. They ought to bring in games that teach things like math and English to where you may move the actual equations or sentence parts, so they will learn them better. In other words, I believe many of us are bad at English, due to you have to be a good listener and note taker in class; yet may be excellent at Scrabble. Thus new jobs training programs should reflect this.
In addition, many times to be successful at school or on the job, you must be a good listener to take classroom notes or to follow instructions on the job. Because of students not being good listeners, they will then get lost in school and not follow directions. Thus hands on learners will end up quitting school or go from job to job as a result. Then they end up into trouble. Due to this, at least schools and companies should be mindful of giving directions in written form. Then their students and employees may perform their tasks more successfully as a result.
They ought to set up new RVs with HD sets on its side. Then drive them to homeless centers or where the unemployed congregate, of new job training opportunities by way of visual means. These sets should also broadcast social services, like mental health care, as well. Then more people will obtain this information better as a result.
Third, there may be a physical reason why some people may appear to be lazy, thus many will not keep jobs. As our youth's obesity rate has skyrocketed, so to has type-2 diabetes and sleep apnea. A symptom of these diseases includes lack of energy. Thyroid problems are also an epidemic. This disease will cause lack of energy as well. So this laziness may not be a character issue but that of a medical issue. Please have your leading universities research if there are medical reasons why people are "lazy."
In conclusion, in business there are cost/benefit analysis proposals to see if the benefits out way the costs of any event. So they ought to weigh whether these 3 proposals above will actually create more benefits than costs. Thus my Nephew and others may benefit from these concepts, as a result.
^^^If a juvenile killed your loved one, would be satisfied with an one year sentence in juvie, with some following 'therapy'? You wanna know what's more valuable than money spent housing criminals? Innocent lives which will be sniffed out by murderous unforgiving scum...Me an M-train's thoughts aren't the 'stupid' ones here, oppossed to an 'ineffective' slap on a wrist...
^^^I'm talking about the straight out murderers, like the Charles Southerns' of the world, not accidental cases.
QuoteMe an M-train's thoughts aren't the 'stupid' ones here, oppossed to an 'ineffective' slap on a wrist...
We are stupid and ineffectual in the eyes of Mr. Dare this morning. He probably read that his beloved Audrey Moran was not running for Mayor in 2015 and decided to take it out on all of us.
YAWN.....
Thank you so much for this excellent interview with Hank and Gray. I have spent the last 30 years working with youth in the foster care system, first in Jacksonville, and for over 20 years now in California. As a society we all too easily throw away children. The vast amount of children in the juvenile justice system have not murdered anyone- they stole a bike, or ran way, or bought or sold drugs, or prostituted ( commercially sexually exploited children is a HUGE problem). If we don't intervene as a society they continue to be marginalized, without the resources all children deserve. The ones who end up in Juvenile Hall, and all too often prison are the ones without parents to support them, whose parents are marginalized themselves, or unable to parent. As Gray and Hank said, these are our children, they belong to all of us, and the mark of a civilized society is how we treat these most vulnerable of our society. The cost to society is high- most of these children will grow up to have children themselves- and the cycle is repeated. Or we can intervene, and nurture and support families and children with resources that will enable them to thrive. The choice is ours, and the angry, harsh, punitive options may feel good initially to some, but the cost is too high- financially and morally. I sincerely thank Hank and Gray for their work on the front lines!
Is there a waynto link to this on Facebook?
Done!
Quote^^^If a juvenile killed your loved one, would be satisfied with an one year sentence in juvie, with some following 'therapy'? You wanna know what's more valuable than money spent housing criminals? Innocent lives which will be sniffed out by murderous unforgiving scum...Me an M-train's thoughts aren't the 'stupid' ones here, oppossed to an 'ineffective' slap on a wrist...
No, I would be satisfied with slaughtering the offender and grilling the body for a giant feast. Jail time is nothing for "murderous unforgiving scum". How about burning them alive? Or, slow dismemberment? Why are we going easy on these kids with jail time? Let's push for a public stoning? Skin them alive? Feed them to 120 starving hounds? You pick. I'm on board.
QuoteIf you are too lenient with these murdering kids, this country will go to hell in a handbasket; With young criminals taking total advantage of an unjust system. Most know right from wrong, so I don't buy that 'brain development hasn't matured, so give them a slap on the wrist'.
Funny, how you "don't buy" that children are not yet adults. Tell me more about your insight.
This must mean you have a lot of faith and trust in young kids to make very capable "adult" decisions. Maybe Chris Hansen had it all wrong and nambla has it all right? I'm sure you are more than willing to let a child/teenager manage any number of "adult" responsibilities.
I'm a bit surprised by your responses. I figured you would be of the mindset that kids don't know any better and that they need strong adult influences to guide them in the right path.
I thought you would think that in order for a kid to grow up to be a successful adult they need clear direction and guidance from respectable elders.
I guess I was wrong since you "don't buy" that a child's brain is not the same as an adults.
Quote from: TheCat on January 12, 2014, 04:07:15 PM
I'm sure you are more than willing to let a child/teenager manage any number of "adult" responsibilities.
Not murdering someone is an 'adult responsibility' okay....
This is what Mr Coxe said...
"Hank Coxe: You have to be careful that you're not mixing two totally separate issues here. No one is saying that a fifteen-year-old is not responsible for what the fifteen year old did. No one is saying that the twelve-year old doesn't understand right from wrong. The issue is how does the criminal justice system treat them "
Quote from: I-10east on January 13, 2014, 05:51:57 AM
Quote from: TheCat on January 12, 2014, 04:07:15 PM
I'm sure you are more than willing to let a child/teenager manage any number of "adult" responsibilities.
Not murdering someone is an 'adult responsibility' okay....
So answer his question.
Is NAMBLA correct and children do have the capacity to make adult decisions, or do you just make these logical equivocations when it empowers you to justify depriving others of their rights? You're making this a light switch issue and it isn't one.
The bad news about the Juvenile "justice "System in Florida is that so many of the residential facilities are run by for profit companies like G4S, YSI and others which are just there for making money.Abuse is rampant and the accountability is run by a good old boys network which is full of coverups and lies. I have worked in a couple of facilities as a therapist and we therapists used to get into trouble with the administration for calling the DCF hotline to report abuse. To get a good look at this do what they said during Watergate ...."Follow the Money"...
The administration would not want us to call the DCF Hotline so they would make life difficult for us after we did...Therapists are "mandated reporters " in Florida which means we would have to report suspected abuse or get in trouble but the agencies didn't want us calling..I called several times from home so the call would not be traced to my office..Its all a big mess.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on January 13, 2014, 08:31:09 AM
Is NAMBLA correct and children do have the capacity to make adult decisions, or do you just make these logical equivocations when it empowers you to justify depriving others of their rights? You're making this a light switch issue and it isn't one.
Like I said, murdering people isn't an 'adult decision'. It's even more scarier when kids kill people; Many kids like that are basically 'irreversible' when it comes to being a citizen. Normal kids don't murder people. I'm not 'depriving' anyone dude, they're depriving themselves....
For the record, I don't think that Christian Fernandez should have been thrown is an adult jail, or that Jax actually has a major problem with young teenage killers (15 or younger) like a Chicago. Hopefully that will kinda calm down the wolfpack of people who is after me....
The real issue is how incarcerating kids is now a major business and "making a profit" at companies at G4S and Youth Services International is more important than providing good therapy and keeping kids safe.
^ I disagree. You can say the exact same things about adult facilities (both prisons, state and private, and mental health facilities). Florida has very good whistleblower protection for those whom stand up, it's just easier to hide in the shadows. The reason most of these things don't progress is because the whistleblower backs out before enough proof can be found. Now that may be partially from employer intimidation (though I'd be surprised if more than 10% of complaints were from such actions) but for the most part it's just the individual doesn't have all the info or they don't feel the investigative services are moving quick enough for them.
Just catching up here ... Where did the NAMBLA link come in? Or was that just here in the comments? Because they seem like two different topics.
I know a nurse who worked for G4S and she reported abuse and the Whistleblower law did not protect her...I remember being told by a Youth Care Worker that if I were ever attacked he wouldn't move too quickly to protect me because I had called the DCF Hotline a few days before. The system is very corrupt.
^ I don't work in, but I work alongside that same system. There will always be some instances in every industry where there are those whom mistreat others below them. I feel that to blanket the entire industry as you have in your statements is inaccurate and misleading. However, assuming that the "system" is rife with corruption, please forward any such claims to me and I will assure you they will get in the right hands to be handled. I am a firm believer that any government agency must have strong oversight because there is so much possibility for mistreatment. Next time you hear someone make those claims, if you could call me and put me in touch with them I'd greatly appreciate it. A lot has been done to change that "system" you don't like in the last 5 years, And I'll do just about anything to not see that hard work and effort that myself and others battled so hard for be for nothing.
Jason Bird
904-773-3466 cell (24/7)
jebird@ymail.com
I acknowledged that there are and will probably always be some instances of abuse. However I don't feel it's right to blanket an entire industry with guilt based on the acts of the few. Yes there are bad management practices, and these incidents get brought to the light and are then corrected. Just 10 years ago this story would've never made it even to the facility warden let alone public press, in my opinion that in itself is quite an accomplishment.
Is there an industry, public or private, that has no abuse? No corruption? Yet there are millions of good businesses out there with sound management and high ethics. Those stories just aren't juicy enough for the 5o'clock news.
I cannot comment on those exact cases because with a little bit of research one would find that I am a moderator for the victims and this is a public forum. What you interpret as specific details, I see are just regurgitated information from press releases that were all released months ago. It should be noted that the most recent case occurred in 2012, and a lot has been changed since then. YSI is by no means innocent, but they are being penalized in what is appropriate in the eyes of the law. Stephen alluded to the fact that these coverups and employee harassment practices are still happening ... Which is why I provided my contact information because that goes against what both sides have been reporting for the past 18 or so months.
I am not going to say "I told you so" because that would be gloating and we must remember that there are victims involved..I also want you to all know that YSI or Youth Services International was recently awarded the contract for Duval House or as it is now called Duval Academy so this agency is now here in Jacksonville. I would never call Jaybird because I have seen many people offer to help only to be a part of this sick system.
Follow the money.....G4S, YSI and AMIKids are all part of this game.
I also urge you to Google "Milton Girl's Academy" and you can watch a video of a correctional officer abusing a child. The facility was closed but that is just the tip of the iceberg. DJJ is closing facilities and several YSI facilities have been closed but as I stated YSI was just rewarded the contract at Duval House in Jacksonville a facility that has always had problems. Its new name is now Duval Academy....Follow the money !
and you all know how our wonder governor made his millions.
Actually I have testified against YSI specifically and a few others you mentioned. I am not in their corner nor do I feel they do an adequate job. But those are my feelings. They differ from facts. The fact is that's old news. And Duval Academy doesn't even house 30 boys ... I think they only have a capacity of like 25 or so (not 100% positive, but it's extremely small). Follow the money would imply that there is a benefit of monetary funds by not reporting incidents. This was true, however all contracts after September 1, 2012 had that removed. And ALL contracts with YSI and G4S that are currently active came after this date. As a matter of fact, private companies that have reported abuse after a March 1, 2013 enactment to DJJ contracts actually receive monetary benefits for reporting abuse. I will repeat that, if a private company reports abuse the DJJ provides additional funding to finance victim services, replace the offending employee, the local Public Defense Fund is also paid funds from DJJ to help prosecute those offenders, and a payment is made to the managing private company for keeping on top of it. Because the program is barely a year old it is still too early to say if it is working, but if you "follow the money" that will actually take you to the reporting abuse side of things. This didn't happen overnight. And it isn't over, there is still much left to be changed. But keep in mind this all started from a 2006 investigation that revealed that facilities operated by DJJ were some of the worst in the nation. Children were being beat to death, buried and claimed as runaways. It should also be noted that just last year DJJ finished privatizing all of their facilities, not as a cost saving measure, but because abuse was so much more rampant in those state run facilities. My argument isn't that there is not abuse, there is. But "following the money" is a callous attempt at brushing a big issue under the rug. It is the mentality of the employees whom are responsible for guarding the door that creates the most problems. On Christmas week I was called into the PDF (the downtown jail) to sit in on a meeting that concerned a 19 year old female prisoner whom was assaulted by a male officer. Where do we follow the money there? In 2012 14% of all state inmates were assaulted by a guard who was found to be in the wrong, compared to less than 1% in private institutions, where do we follow the money there? Here is the situation: when someone gets accused of abuse in a private institution that person is suspended and ultimately terminated. In a state run facility that person is reassigned during investigation and moved to another facility if found at fault.
As for YSI specifically I do not like them, but not for the quality of life they provide, it's because I don't agree with the quality of care they give. Instead of individualized treatment their business plan is more focused on babysitting, collecting the paycheck, and releasing them at the end of the term. Much like the foster care system, educational system and most other institutionalized industries within our country.
QuoteI would never call Jaybird because I have seen many people offer to help only to be a part of this sick system.
As for this ... Well all I can say is that if you can sleep at night knowing that someone is being wronged and you have the power to stop it but don't, than good for you. Unfortunately, especially in the private sector people report cases of abuse. They bring in info and people like me feel we have a great case against the agency. Then we find out they embellished a little, or that it was all started not because an act of abuse but because that employee was degraded by their supervisor in front of others or some like situation. That gets discouraging, but it doesn't stop me, the other volunteers, or the state investigative authorities from doing our jobs. Like I said in the beginning, there are feelings and facts. You can hate a company, you can hate an industry, heck we live in a country that allows you to hate whomever you want and actually publicly vocalize that which is why we are a great civilization. But that also means that we live in a country that provides benefit of doubt, innocence until facts prove otherwise, and sometimes the good guys don't win. It is slightly more involved than just saying "follow the money", though I know and understand why that is a sexy tag line, it is also an injustice to those being victimized not by ones seeking profit, but by individuals craving power and dominance over others. And that, in my own opinion is the real problem.
Stephen I hope I can count on you to follow this story as it develops....Follow the money and remember the names Youth Services International, G4S and AMIKids the new darling of DJJ. I wish someone would track campaign donations from these places to Scott and Crist.....That would be a story
You also might want to take a look at this site....Its an unofficial "watchdog" because the officials in Tallahassee do not do their jobs...Remember Stephen....My allegations were true..
http://www.justice4kids.org/