A few posters have suggested an aquarium for the Shipyards or some other location downtown. I think Jacksonville is not really up - financially - to having a real world class aquarium, and we're close enough to Big Apple - South (Atlanta) as to not really being able to compete. Also, the only place where we have enough room for something grand in the downtown area is to old Southside Generating land. But we could compete on another level and without the need for a large tract of land.
I recall a decently sized portion of the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago dedicated to smaller sea creatures, and it was fascinating. There is an abundance of them - anemones, sea urchins, jellyfish (Atlanta has a nice display), seahorses, small reef fish, and so on almost endlessly. A large number of tanks to hold such sea life would not require a lot of space - as with large fish. Done professionally, it could be a source of marine biology education and a tourist attraction.
No?
Sea World and the aquariums in Charleston and Tampa are closer than the one in Atlanta.
And St Augustine might give it a go.
Yeah there are much closer aquariums and who said it had to be world class? The one in Tampa is a dump IMO.
The one thing that would definitely work for the Jax commoner is that the admission price could be relatively low - $10 or so compared to the $30 admission in ATL or $60 admission at SeaWorld. Obviously, you are not getting the same quality, but something tells me Jaxons would have an easier time paying for this than the high end version. I think the same demographic (young families, school groups, animal lovers) that keeps the zoo afloat could afford an attraction like this. I know I would be waiting in line to buy an annual pass for the family.
Hell, stick a bar/restaurant on the backside of an aquarium wall and I'm sure it will pull its weight and bring in a little extra cash at night.
I have a fish tank with goldfish from Pet Supermarket, if we are making contributions here. That is about as close as Jax will get to an aquarium until Shad Khan decides to buy one for the City like Arthur Blank did in Atlanta.
I doubt Jacksonville residents alone could keep an aquarium afloat financially. Those things have to pull from a much larger audience.
Gimmicks gimmicks gimmicks! Id hate to see Jacksonville be the 4th aqurium in the state...BoringMcYarnfest. People come up with something else please. I honestly don't know what could be better but, not another fish museum.
I am totally with the last 2 posts.
I've been pro the "small" things.
There have been prior options (oops) / but still are a lot:
-USS Adams
- The chocolate factory / tour spot (I know the history...too bad...I was for that option)
- Can't we just (effectively) bring the stadiums downtown with a completed riverwalk? Memorial Park connection?
- A kayak launch or two?
- Indian artificats had been found near the riverwalk and were going to be put on display on it...what happened?
- The Skyline Promenade (FWB) oops, again
Hitting for some singles is okay.
QuoteGimmicks gimmicks gimmicks! Id hate to see Jacksonville be the 4th aqurium in the state...BoringMcYarnfest. People come up with something else please. I honestly don't know what could be better but, not another fish museum.
Agreed, I would like to see a game changing idea come from ONESPARK for downtown and river use. I would like to see OneSPARK become the source of great ideas we vote on and then kickstart for completion. Yeah, they would need help from other sources, but if the PEOPLE want it to be done, so says the WILL of the people!
Agree, we don't need to copy every city and their ideas, just because they WORK there, we can be original in our ideas and execution. Even though Onespark was copied from another city, I still think its the most original idea to hit Jacksonville in 30 years!
^^^+100
COJ could make it easier and cheaper to start or maintain a small business downtown without spending a dime. The problem with that is that they would have to give up some power so it's very unlikely to happen.
^^^Where is the Mayor on all of this? He comes out for Onespark, then goes back in his hole never to be seen again with regard to downtown initiatives. He's quick to spend 43 million on video boards and pools. What has his administration done to do just that, make it easier and cheaper to start or maintain a small business downtown?
2015 will be an interesting election. So many broken promises from 2011!
^^so do you see this as a problem with the current administration? I know it has been going for years but Brown ran on a platform of improving downtown so it appears he has not helped much?? I believe these were also suggestions made by his transition team as I recall.
Maybe many of you know it all on here should run for office?
^^ Have to admit I think that same question alot. Actually some good ideas that could help. My guess most would feel they think they can do as much without running for office and the limitations of government. Not sure if that is legitimate or a cop out?? I guess if nothing else it shows the job of being responsible for the city in which you live as an elected official is a tough job and not too attractive.
"But it is a democracy, and voting in an informed manner after public debate is just as important as actually holding the offices."
I'm a reliable voter and try to stay informed but I also realize that my one vote counts for very little. The people who have the time, money and commitment to having an influence on public policy are 10,000 times more effective than someone who just votes in every election.
I will always be for doing something exciting for residents, and tourist on the Shipyard site. I would like to see something that can be used 24 hours 7 days a week, but also have components that are admission based that can make it a unique attraction. I would like to see something like a botanical/sculpture garden, with the gardens being art and the sculptures having a garden component. I think if the different areas are tied together with aquarium and maritime attractions, along with having fountains of differing height and scope all over the property, we can create something that no one has ever done before. Then again it is always fun to dream, finding ways to get anything accomplished is the hard part. Keep dreaming Jax.
Aquariums, Sea World & the like are indeed gimmicks. And like others have already noted, have to pull from a MUCH larger base than just locals (which Jax doesnt have). Not to mention, its a shaky industry what with a bunch of slack jawed gawkers paying to gaze at marine life (which should probably be left alone in the wild anyway) is probably on the down swing as far as industries go. Take a look at what the documentary Blackfish is doing to business in Sea World & you'll see what I mean. I know an aquarium isn't exactly the same as Sea World, but its in the same ballpark.
Point is, I wouldn't do it. Jax has a unique opportunity to form its own identity. And that doesn't mean copying the rest of Florida with A. Things that are gimmicky & past their prime. And B. Things that it couldn't do better anyway & will undoubtedly half-ass.
Quote from: mtraininjax on January 12, 2014, 10:14:22 AM
^^^Where is the Mayor on all of this? He comes out for Onespark, then goes back in his hole never to be seen again with regard to downtown initiatives. He's quick to spend 43 million on video boards and pools. What has his administration done to do just that, make it easier and cheaper to start or maintain a small business downtown?
2015 will be an interesting election. So many broken promises from 2011!
Something like this?
QuoteJacksonville looking to fund Downtown retail development
The Downtown Investment Authority is looking at way to bridge the financial gap between dark and vibrant storefronts.
Aundra Wallace, CEO of the authority, told the board Wednesday evening he has been looking at ways to incentivize more storefront buildout in the urban core. Ideally, Wallace said, he'd like to determine an amount from its $4.1 million budget that the DIA would allocate to retail incentives and seek City Council approval for the aggregate amount.
That way, Wallace said, each individual project wouldn't require City Council approval.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/11/21/downtown-jacksonville-authority-will.html
They also found $9 million to go to DT development but council ended up taking most of it. So Brown has (or at least what he's created...the DIA) has put some money where their mouths are at. Change is just taking a lot longer than most would have ever imagined but we still overlook the importance of the little things that keep the market from working naturally.
"Change is just taking a lot longer than most would have ever imagined but we still overlook the importance of the little things that keep the market from working naturally."
Little things like DDRC, parking meters and signage regulation.
I said this in another thread, but during the planning for the Better Jacksonville Plan serious consideration was given to an aquarium for the zoo. But those things are very expensive to do right and need to be consistently updated. Ultimately it was decided to focus on things we could really do up. The result is we've gotten a zoo that's top notch, where you can see the enhancement in every new addition.
I'd love to have an aquarium here, especially downtown, but I wouldn't want to commit to it unless we could really knock it out of the park in one way or another. That doesn't mean making it the biggest or flashiest or doing it just to do it; in fact these things are way better when they stand out. We shouldn't settle for second or third rate just so we can say we're doing something - there are plenty of other projects where we wouldn't be just be copying a plan from 15 years ago.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 12, 2014, 02:04:32 PM
I said this in another thread, but during the planning for the Better Jacksonville Plan serious consideration was given to an aquarium for the zoo. But those things are very expensive to do right and need to be consistently updated. Ultimately it was decided to focus on things we could really do up. The result is we've gotten a zoo that's top notch, where you can see the enhancement in every new addition.
I'd love to have an aquarium here, especially downtown, but I wouldn't want to commit to it unless we could really knock it out of the park in one way or another. That doesn't mean making it the biggest or flashiest or doing it just to do it; in fact these things are way better when they stand out. We shouldn't settle for second or third rate just so we can say we're doing something - there are plenty of other projects where we wouldn't be just be copying a plan from 15 years ago.
There's a lesson in this. It's focus on improving what we already have. Historically, downtown and the urban core has had an identity. We've let it go and destroyed it looking to create life with gimmicks and one trick ponies instead. If we want to do something different, try cleaning up McCoys and Hogans Creek and restoring them to what they were in the 1930s.
^^^About Hogans Creek, how likely would the master plan come to fruition in the next couple of years, with of course the funding from Groundworks USA. That alone would definitely help spur activity. It seems like a lot of work, however, for a city concerned about its appeal and wanting to become a 'destination city' having a derelict park in the middle of your urban core seems like it would be a no brainer to make that a priority.
Would like to see this!
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=19167.0
Quote from: CG7 on January 12, 2014, 01:01:17 PM
I will always be for doing something exciting for residents, and tourist on the Shipyard site.
Then again it is always fun to dream, finding ways to get anything accomplished is the hard part. Keep dreaming Jax.
CG7, Residents and tourists? We were together at Vision 2025 and have you asked about the floating dock that is there right now at Shipyards III? One day out from the Super Duper Secret FIND meeting to make up for the Super Duper Backroom FIND meeting or meetings. I spoke with Scott Wilson and he hasn't been to one. Don Redman is my District councilman and has ignored my requests and he is also the Chair of Waterways. How is this process supposed to work? it's just a list.
This is it. Full meeting of the Jacksonville city council will be hours later and 2014-22 is being introduced. Everyone works and schedules can preclude people from attending but on 1/15/14 is the full Board meeting of the DIA at 5pm and maybe you can make that meeting. Have you kayaked Downtown recently?
Shipyards III - The Public Access can be legislatively created NOW!
A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
It will Embrace Us
Just heard that the Main St. Bridge will be under construction for over a year. Connectivity from the Waterway more important now than before.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on January 11, 2014, 08:55:14 PM
Yeah there are much closer aquariums and who said it had to be world class? The one in Tampa is a dump IMO.
The Tampa Aquarium has a mangrove exhibit more informative than most of the others. It focuses on what is in the local area and gives the public an excellent view of life systems in the mangroves and the nurseries of the ocean. Monteray was another that had an excellent view of a klep forest, local to that area. Atlanta was kiddy town aimed at kids and the flashy stuff. It did have a small rivers exhibit but not much emphasis on the local enviroments. Dolphins and sting ray touch tanks are nice but they are classic tourist attraction and don't apply everywhere.
QuoteThey also found $9 million to go to DT development but council ended up taking most of it. So Brown has (or at least what he's created...the DIA) has put some money where their mouths are at. Change is just taking a lot longer than most would have ever imagined but we still overlook the importance of the little things that keep the market from working naturally.
At the rate he is going, the Jaguars will be in the Super Bowl before Downtown ever gets any real traction!
Quote from: Overstreet on January 13, 2014, 08:22:19 AM
The Tampa Aquarium has a mangrove exhibit more informative than most of the others. It focuses on what is in the local area and gives the public an excellent view of life systems in the mangroves and the nurseries of the ocean.
you know what's interesting....the Florida Aquarium (in Tampa) opened back in the early-to-mid-1990s....and yet the area stayed virtually empty without much tourist traffic until the Marriott hotel, Channelside, and the streetcar opened in 2001.
this should be cautionary note for Jax. Aquarium boosters.
I don't really understand everybody's excitment for an aquirum downtown. When was the last time Marineland just south of St Augustine was over flowing with people? It'll be terrible difficult to compete with Sea World when it's just a two hour drive away.
I know this has been mentioned before, but using west part of the shipyards for a "JAX Craft Beer Garden and Pour House" would be something that can attract locals on a regular basis and "craft beer tourism". It can showcase all local craft beers and perhaps have a local brewhouse. Trying to think of something unique, not too expensive ( compared to aquarium) and can grow in the future with demand. Needs to be done right and not cheaply to attract people to visit. Most successful ventures start small and grow with demand. This is where JAX falls flat. No vision to even try something like this. You never know, 10 years from now it could be the largest "mixed use" beer garden in the US.
I like that...beer as tourism! We in Jax definitely cultivate and appreciate our brew, and craft beers are a big thing here. You should always stick with what you know.
I wasn't suggesting any kind of operation that involves large tanks or other spaces. I was hoping someone with true experience with marine biology would chime in about the thought of a facility devoted to the smaller kinds of marine life. To my knowledge there is nothing like that around here.
The Pier in St. Petersburg - recently closed, I think after many years in operation - was a big tourist attraction and one floor of it was devoted to aquariums - nothing huge, just darned interesting. Other floors included restaurants and shopping.
Explain why such a facility is a gimmick and an old war ship or a roller coaster isn't. And if it is a gimmick that works, so what? What we need is something fun, and why wouldn't it be fun to go to a place where you could spend an hour or so looking at some forms of sea life are beautiful and aren't available anywhere else?
Quote from: WmNussbaum on January 13, 2014, 01:55:27 PM
The Pier in St. Petersburg - recently closed, I think after many years in operation - was a big tourist attraction and one floor of it was devoted to aquariums - nothing huge, just darned interesting. Other floors included restaurants and shopping.
The Pier in St. Petersburg closed because as the city became vibrant, people flocked to its streets and businesses instead. Now they are trying to create something that complements the urban scene they've successfully reactivated over the last decade.
QuoteExplain why such a facility is a gimmick and an old war ship or a roller coaster isn't. And if it is a gimmick that works, so what?
It's arguable that all of these things are gimmicks and one trick ponies
if sold as if they have the power alone to turn downtown around or be a success on their own within a dead environment.
QuoteWhat we need is something fun, and why wouldn't it be fun to go to a place where you could spend an hour or so looking at some forms of sea life are beautiful and aren't available anywhere else?
Locals occasionally spending an hour or so to look at fish wouldn't be enough to financially sustain an aquarium worth visiting more than once. Btw, a downtown that works.....is fun. If we can create one that works naturally, stuff that survives off the area's attraction and traffic (like an aquarium) start to make sense from a market rate perspective.
Quote from: Overstreet on January 13, 2014, 08:22:19 AM
Dolphins and sting ray touch tanks are nice but they are classic tourist attraction and don't apply everywhere.
Plus, the zoo already has a stingray touch tank.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 13, 2014, 10:19:57 AM
Quote from: Overstreet on January 13, 2014, 08:22:19 AM
The Tampa Aquarium has a mangrove exhibit more informative than most of the others. It focuses on what is in the local area and gives the public an excellent view of life systems in the mangroves and the nurseries of the ocean.
you know what's interesting....the Florida Aquarium (in Tampa) opened back in the early-to-mid-1990s....and yet the area stayed virtually empty without much tourist traffic until the Marriott hotel, Channelside, and the streetcar opened in 2001.
this should be cautionary note for Jax. Aquarium boosters.
Don't forget the new cruise terminal added in that area too. There is also that liberty ship museum. The port authority offices are there marketing the port and the attractions. I was recently in Channel side for a number of Mondays-Wedensdays. It's not very vibrant during the day time either. However, we will break ground on Skyhouse Tampa a 23 story apartment building in Channel Side this month. Things are changing. I don't think it was just the aquarium.
I'll try it one more time and then quit:
I"m not talking about shark tanks, jumping porpoises, touchy-feely sting ray tanks or anything like that. What I've posited is a place to see marine life you won't see most other places: anemones, jellyfish, seahorses the smaller cephalopods (octopi and squid), and the like, life that can be displayed and studied in tanks that don't require super sizes, super engineering, or super money.
Lakelander, the St. P pier closed for a reason - according to you - that all of us should wish for Jacksonville, i.e., too much competition nearby. So let's have one here for awhile and tear it down in 20 years when the area has at last become something.
I'd sure as hell rather try the kind of place i'm suggesting that an aged, minor warship. What's to see and oooh and ahhh over in that kind of attraction? And talk about upkeep . . . .
I see what you're saying. But wouldn't it be cool to get the core of downtown right now instead of 20 years. Momentum is already here. We just need to better facilitate it.
Wm, I don't mean to dump on your idea, but there are already some places around here similar to what you're describing. There's the Marine Science Education Center in Mayport, site of many a school field trip, and JU has been developing a Marine Science Research Institute on the river. There aren't exhibits, but there are some pretty impressive coastal bio research facilities in the UNF Biology building. And of course there's Marineland.
If someone came along and offered to build and fund a cool aquarium dowtown, I'm sure everyone would be thrilled. An aquarium is hardly pie in the sky. But again, the prospect was seriously considered 12 years ago, and it was decided to put the money into other things we could really do up right. I think that's all folks are saying here - there are plenty of projects we could undertake that would help downtown, including plenty (eg fixing zoning and signage ordinances) that we could do right now for little cost.
I like the idea proposed earlier about the beer garden. I'd like to see something like the Highline Beer Garden in SOHO. Build a nice boutique hotel, with rooftop bar and a beer garden attached... http://standardhotels.com/high-line/food-drink/biergarten
St. Augustine's aquarium and an adjacent children's museum anticipate being open next year.
QuoteAquarium, children's museum projects progressing in St. Augustine
The coinciding projects of the Children's Museum of St. Johns and the St. Augustine Aquarium are a public-partnership with the city of St. Augustine proposed for Riberia Pointe with the intention of opening in 2015 in time for the 450th anniversary of the city's founding.
Projected to cost $6.3 million, the nonprofit museum will focus on interactive learning and play. It will highlight science, technology, engineering, art, math, history and culture.
QuoteEducation along with public awareness about marine life also is the inspiration for the aquarium project, being led by Marine Conservation Partners of St. Augustine.
The estimated $8 million project includes a 250,000-gallon, 43,000-square-foot aquarium as well as a botanical gardens and aviary. Shawn Hiester, Marine Conservation Partners founder, said they expect to break ground in June on the first phase that calls for 110,000 gallons of marine exhibits and 25,000 square feet of indoor and outdoor facilities.
"We're still about two weeks away from finalizing an overall master site plan," said Hiester, noting opening is anticipated in February 2015.
full article: http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-01-25/story/aquarium-childrens-museum-projects-progressing-st-augustine
Should have been built here, like I said didn't have to be something fancy, Oh well at least it will be just down the road. Botanical gardens and a children's museum as well.
TBH, I'd be more entertained feeding the stingrays at Stingray Bay at the Jax Zoo than walking through an underwater transparent tunnel, that's encircled by floating marine life. Aquariums are so commonplace, even a rollercoaster (Manta) queue line in Sea World Orlando has one; Don't get me wrong, it's definitely the most scenic queue line in the world, the coaster is pretty damn awesome too. :)
FYI you can feed stingrays at many aquariums as well, This conversation is basically over, lets move on.
Someone's pretty chippy. Yeesh...
No, that's usually reserved for you. Anyway good for St. Augustine.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on January 26, 2014, 02:35:44 AM
No, that's usually reserved for you. Anyway good for St. Augustine.
It is good for St Augustine, because being a tourist trap is their M.O. & an aquarium falls right in line with that.
Quote from: jaxjags on January 13, 2014, 11:22:47 AM
I know this has been mentioned before, but using west part of the shipyards for a "JAX Craft Beer Garden and Pour House" would be something that can attract locals on a regular basis and "craft beer tourism". It can showcase all local craft beers and perhaps have a local brewhouse. Trying to think of something unique, not too expensive ( compared to aquarium) and can grow in the future with demand. Needs to be done right and not cheaply to attract people to visit. Most successful ventures start small and grow with demand. This is where JAX falls flat. No vision to even try something like this. You never know, 10 years from now it could be the largest "mixed use" beer garden in the US.
+1
We need another round over here!
Ben, The guy with Intuition Ale needs to make a new toast (pitch) to the DIA with Shipyards. Why not? I hope he does. The DIA voted to take back control and the power that they gave to OED before the new guy Aundra Wallace started in August. This was done at the 1/15/14 DIA Board meeting with resolution 2014-01-03.
They just changed all the Rules with Resolution 2014-01-01 the Retail Enhancement Plan at the 1/15/14 DIA Board meeting. So Ben if you still have the fire in the belly then go for it.
This city just loves beatin down the little guy.
D-Downtown
I-Is
A-Alcohol
Visit Jacksonville!
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on January 26, 2014, 02:35:44 AM
No, that's usually reserved for you. Anyway good for St. Augustine.
First of all, you're the one that brought up this 'dying thread' a day later; Then you're gonna say 'lets move on' when I make a differing comment from yours? So as the 'thread regulator' that you're portraying, people can only agree with your sentiment? Anything opposite of what you think, the thread is over, right? You seem very reasonable....