Does anyone have updates on Esplanade? I have not heard anything about them in several months. The last I heard, they were still trying to get all their permits in place.
The development has been delayed for at least a year because of the economy.
A little bird said that it will not be completed until late 2011, possibly into early 2012. Macy's is on board too!
I haven't noticed any site work happening at the Esplande location or Lion's Gate.
Any idea as to when the Esplande may start work?
I would not expect any movement any time soon.
QuoteMacy's is on board too!
- I couldn't help but notice an inordinate amount of television advertising for Macy's leading up to Black Friday - I wonder why they would spend so much on TV commercials A. in this economy & B. in this market(?) - is it a teaser/or to whet the palette? Would you reach that far to bring shoppers to Orlando? Macaroni Grill has done this as well in the past.......
Daytona has a Macy's.
Quote from: Jason on December 02, 2008, 01:02:56 PM
Daytona has a Macy's.
There may be one in Gainesville as well.
Same television market(s)?
Hmmm, I don't think so.
Not the same market, but large national chains can buy air time in blocks, by market, by state, etc. So someone just bought Florida TV for those ads.
Moreover Macys has a healthy online and mail order business so even if we don't have a store, we shop at Macys.
I'm for bringing back "Cohen Brothers" at least they knew what to do on Duval Street!
OCKLAWAHA
you guys do realize that macy's is a national company - they sponsor national commercials not just local ones
Gainesville has a Holiday Inn, no Macy's. Kohl's advertised in Jax for a year, and a half, and guess what??? They are in Jax.. Same w/ Macy's.... Advertising cost money, and they are not stupid. They are coming to Jax. I now hear that the TIF bonds will be issued to make Esplanade, and Lions gate road improvements @ "tax payer" cost. However the tax rev $ returned will more than make up for the TIF.
Daytona's Macy's is not profitable, except when NASCAR races are in Daytona. Ben Carter is very honest, and keeps his word. He is committed to Esplanade.
There is a Macy's in Gainesville. Its inside the Oaks Mall. Like Daytona's Macy's, it was a Burdines before the Macy's name change.
(http://www.theoaksmall.com/maps/thumbs/301.jpg)
http://www.theoaksmall.com/html/storedirectory.asp
Yeah, I remember shopping there whenever I hit up the Oaks Mall.
Please, no more Wal-Marts! :)
Quote from: British Shoe Company on December 03, 2008, 08:12:02 PM
I concur, Burdines in Daytona was a Macy's too. Walmart is looking at a corner of the 9 mile gang parcel where esplanade is planned. I do not think it will hurt. Costco is next to Saint Johns Town Center, and has complemented it. A Walmart would be cool at the NE corner of International Pkwy, and I95
Did you just compare Wal-Mart to Costco?
Doubtful. If it does, it will be a few years out and likely revamped.
If this get's redeveloped, it definetly won't be the way it was originally designed.
I'm sure some of you knew this, but I didn't:
If I'm "following" wikipedia correctly, Cohen Brothers was bought by May Department Stores. May Department stores merged with Federated Department Stores, which later became Macy's!
References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James_Building#The_St._James
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_May_Department_Stores_Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_Department_Stores
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macy%27s
So, we technically SHOULD have a Macy's!
Just thought that was interesting.
Or they just don't want another C.R 210 incident.
http://www.bencarterproperties.com/properties.html
Quote from: British Shoe Company on August 14, 2009, 01:29:11 PM
http://www.bencarterproperties.com/properties.html
His premiere project was supposed to open this fall. Now, the SOB is likely delayed opening until 2011.
So, in other words, any project with his name on it is likely on serious hold or dead. This is at least until his pride and joy, the above mentioned Streets of Buckhead gets going and open.
It started grand, but kept getting trimmed, until it is what it is now.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/streets-project-on-hold-131229.html
If you were a developer, you would do the same thing, if you wanted to stay in business. Look at the example of not delaying. "Wally Devlin Jr." You should not be critical, the economy went south right after the 2007 "Dog, and pony show" he put on at the World Golf Village.
However, you fail to realize he demolished several blocks in Buckhead to make this grand luxury scheme come together. Hotels first dropped plans, then Ben dropped all residential components, now many stores are not even signing on. One, due to the economy, and two, the Atlanta market is already saturated wth luxury retailers.
You keep bringing up a project that is dead, and will not likely come back.
Quote from: reednavy on September 07, 2009, 08:30:49 PM
However, you fail to realize he demolished several blocks in Buckhead to make this grand luxury scheme come together. Hotels first dropped plans, then Ben dropped all residential components, now many stores are not even signing on. One, due to the economy, and two, the Atlanta market is already saturated wth luxury retailers.
You keep bringing up a project that is dead, and will not likely come back.
CITIPLACE, AND ESPLANADE AT ST. JOHNS ARE ON THE SAME PIECE OF LAND. REEDNAVY YOU ARE SO SURE IT'S DEAD. THE PLANS HAVE CHANGED BECAUSE OF WALLY DEVLIN JR., THE TREE OF LIFE PARCEL, THE ECONOMY, AND STRAND VS ESCAMBIA COUNTY, WHICH MADE THE SUPREME COURT RULE "TIF'S" MUST HAVE VOTERS OK, AND COMMISSIONERS DID NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ISSUE "TIF'S". HAVE YOU EVER BEEN WRONG? DO YOU KNOW WHO OWNS THE PROPERTY, AND WHO IS BUYING IT, AND DEVELOPING IT? ARE YOU YOU JUST PONTIFICATING WITHOUT A CLUE ABOUT THE PROJECT? BY THE WAY THE SUPREME COURT REVERSED THE DECISION, AND THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS CAN ISSUE "TIF'S" NOW! TRY PANDA EXPRESS, AND QUIT ACTING LIKE YOU KNOW EVERYTHING!
Nice, so you had to post the same whiny rant in another thread.
Grow a pair and shut up.
Quote from: reednavy on October 03, 2009, 06:13:39 PM
Nice, so you had to post the same whiny rant in another thread.
Grow a pair and shut up.
REEDNAVY, you should work on your people skills.
And you should work on your facts about something this significant.
Let's get back on track instead of attacking each other. Thanks in advance guys.
Let the non profitable stores finish closing. Then it will be time for new profitable stores to open, in different locations. (Esplanade/St. Johns Town Center) Simon Properties knows how to play the game. We will have a Macy's in the next 2 years to 3 years.
Lion's Gate, and Esplanade will both be built. In fact they will compliment each other, and hurt the Outlet's at I95, and State Road 16. Both sides of I95!
Quote from: reednavy on October 03, 2009, 06:22:05 PM
And you should work on your facts about something this significant.
Quote from: reednavy on May 09, 2009, 12:13:37 PM
If this get's redeveloped, it definetly won't be the way it was originally designed.
You are correct, it will not be as it was originally designed.
You are incorrect about "If this get's redeveloped" because It will just be developed. I do not consider a tree farm as a development.
Talk about bringing old quotes (from May) back from the grave? As for the Esplanade, only time will tell.
So, how's the Streets of Buckhead doing?
Not so good from the last time I checked, and with it being Ben Carter's golden egg, don't expect much, if any, progress on this development for a while, if ever.
Quote from: reednavy on November 02, 2009, 10:09:50 PM
So, how's the Streets of Buckhead doing?
Not so good from the last time I checked, and with it being Ben Carter's golden egg, don't expect much, if any, progress on this development for a while, if ever.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same as Esplanade, and Lion's Gate. When your in hard times, you do not build, you pull your horns in. Wait out the hard times. That's if you want to stay in business. The Streets is a major project, and if Ben Carter would have pushed forward, he would be broke today. By pulling his horns in, and waiting he still in business. I do think his company is still in business.
What?
So you try to talk sense here, but just blow smoke in the Lions Gate thread?
The Streets of Buckhead broke ground nearly 2 years ago, and has undergone serious adjustments, including ditching hotels and all residential components, and recently putting construction on hold. Retailers are also beginning to pull out, so the Esplanade or any of his other developments, are on the back burner for now.
Just a side note Britich Shoe Company... when you quote someone, please include your response in the same post versus a separate response in the post below.
If it could be 1/2 the success that that St. Johns Town Center has been, it would be great for North St. Johns County, and the residents who live in that area! There is no recession at the SJTC!
If the Esplanade isn't dead, its indefinitely delayed. There is also a recession at SJTC. None of those long rumored department stores (Macy's, Nordstroms, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdales, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc.) that were locks to open at SJTC have showed up.
Delayed for sure! SJTC is packed, even when it is raining. What a success it has been. It has exceeded my expectations. I do think Macy's is coming to town. They are advertising here is why I believe that. I do not know when Esplanade will break ground, or be completed either.
St. Johns commission paves another step in International Golf Parkway project
* By Peter Guinta
* Story updated at 5:35 PM on Friday, Feb. 5, 2010
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St. Johns County
This 580-acre wooded parcel off International Golf Parkway could turn into a new development.
A request by a Jacksonville real estate firm to change the county's future land use map to develop a 580-acre wooded parcel off International Golf Parkway into shopping, offices and housing was unanimously approved Tuesday by the St. Johns County Commission.
The applicant, The Nine Mile Gang, wants to build 300 multi-family housing units, 385,000 square feet of retail space and 97,500 square feet of office space on pasture and wetlands north of IGP and east of Interstate 95.
St. Augustine attorney George McClure of McClure Bloodworth, representing the developers, said the approvals requested mean only that the project's plans would be reviewed by the Florida Department of Community Affairs.
"Any development on our site would (still) need County Commission approval," McClure said.
The property has 188 acres of wetlands. The St. Johns County Planning & Zoning Agency approved the project 5 to 1 on Oct. 15.
A previous project, a high-end retail shopping complex called Esplanade, was planned for that same property in 2007.
But developers Ben Carter and the Devlin Group - builders of the successful St. Johns Town Center in Duval County - halted Esplanade in 2008. That project consisted of 1,400 homes, 1.4 million square feet of office space, 850,000 square feet of retail space and an 110-bed hotel.
The $28 million that Devlin and Carter set for road improvements was never raised and the work never done.
For this project, the Nine Mile Gang promises a total of $32.5 million - $12.6 million to widen IGP from I-95 to a point 1,000 feet east of the project entrance, and $19.8 million for entrance and exit ramp improvements at I-95 and IGP.
McClure also said the improvements would include flattening the sharp, dangerous curve separating the commercial area of east IGP from the tree-covered, two-lane highway through Twelve Mile Swamp to U.S. 1.
Vice Chair Ken Bryan said he'd "love to see the (same) tax base (as the St. Johns Town Center) in St. Johns County," and Commissioner Ray Quinn said his concerns included the traffic impact on Nine Mile Road, the project's environmental impact and the opinion of the neighbors.
McClure said the neighbors were excited about the project.
"This looks like the last developable piece in this area," Commissioner Cyndi Stevenson said. "This is appropriately located and we should give them a chance with the (Department of Community Affairs)."
No building permits will be issued until IGP is four lanes.
In public comment, David Wiles of Crescent Beach said the Nine Mile Gang project could become another high-profile failure like Twin Creeks, SilverLeaf and Esplanade, all fatally wounded by the busted housing market and credit crunch.
"This county does not have a generalized need (for this development)," Wiles said.
McClure said the developers bought the property in 1985, when it was once part of a 1,200-acre parcel.
The county and state approvals will "facilitate the ability to develop this property when the market turns around," he said. "There is very little affordable housing in that area. I see this area as becoming the future business downtown of St. Johns County."
^ Repost.
See this thread for the topic.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,7499.0.html
Strand vs Escambia County ruling saying voters had to vote on TIF's. That Florida Supreme Court decision hurt Devlin, and contributed to his financial demise. (Along w/ The Cove, and the Weston, and several other projects) The Supreme Court has reversed it's decision since then. County Comm's can now issue "TIF"'s.
I stated this in another thread as well, but why in the hell would any store like Macy's , Bloomingdales, etc. locate in the world golf village area when Nocatee's town center is beginning to take shape? The demographics of Ponte Vedra, Julington Creek , and Polencia make for a much more enticing pull for a high end retailer and the fact that Nocatee has been so well planned with roads already in place makes it a no brainer as far as I am concerned. World Golf Village will do well with a Walmart and a Target, but I just don't see a high end retailer coming to the Jacksonville area anywhere other then Nocatee or SJTC.
Why'd a big named retailer go to a town center that has barely anything there to begin with? As you can see at the SJTC, retailers want to be close to others to compete for their share of the shoppers. Nocatee only has a couple hundred residential units, a Publix and an office building right now in all honesty.
As is the case with the WGV, Nocatee has nowhere near the population to justify any significant retailers that you find at the SJTC right now, or in the short term.
This latest economic recession has and is still teachign retailers a tough lessont hat you can't throw up a new store in an area that has yet to prove it necessary.
So, as with the WGV, Nocatee will probably not be built as was originally planned because the freckin bottom fell out of a rather speculative residential market, which hurts the overall plan.
Thats where you would be wrong. Nocatee is not like any other development. The Davis family considers Nocatee to be a big part of their legacy here and is not in this for the short term. Any other developer and this whole Nocatee thing would be a bust. They have pored a LOT of money into this development and have done a spectacular job. The economy will come back and when it does Nocatee is poised to be the place to be for years to come in Jacksonville. If you haven't been down this way, come and check it out. I bought a home here in Coastal Oaks and I think it is just amazing what they have done here already.
They continue to build. Few houses but they are still popping up.
Quote from: donisarockiesfan on February 17, 2010, 10:32:18 PM
Thats where you would be wrong. Nocatee is not like any other development. The Davis family considers Nocatee to be a big part of their legacy here and is not in this for the short term. Any other developer and this whole Nocatee thing would be a bust. They have pored a LOT of money into this development and have done a spectacular job. The economy will come back and when it does Nocatee is poised to be the place to be for years to come in Jacksonville. If you haven't been down this way, come and check it out. I bought a home here in Coastal Oaks and I think it is just amazing what they have done here already.
I've driven through there plenty of times and am far from impressed. Basically another "signature" Florida development of stucco homes with lots of grass and fewer trees. The only brownie points I give them is for "preserving" the Intracoastal frontage.
For Nocatee to become the place to be a dethrone SJTC, it'll take a lot, and I mean A LOT more than what is going on down there now. To get the stores that SJTC has now, the metro area as a whole needs to double or triple it's population in order for retailers to look at setting up another location. I'm talking about the high-end retailers, not the typical, every mall stuff.
SJTC exists on a former dairy pasture, and what used to be one of the most picturesque views in Jax.
From I-95 to the Beach is now desired real estate. It took about 20 years.
Quote from: buckethead on February 18, 2010, 07:52:41 AM
SJTC exists on a former dairy pasture, and what used to be one of the most picturesque views in Jax.
From I-95 to the Beach is now desired real estate. It took about 20 years.
Why have picturesque when we can have another American Eagle and Starbucks?
When was it a dairy pasture?
Circa 1989 even later IIRC.
Quote from: reednavy on February 17, 2010, 10:47:04 PM
Quote from: donisarockiesfan on February 17, 2010, 10:32:18 PM
Thats where you would be wrong. Nocatee is not like any other development. The Davis family considers Nocatee to be a big part of their legacy here and is not in this for the short term. Any other developer and this whole Nocatee thing would be a bust. They have pored a LOT of money into this development and have done a spectacular job. The economy will come back and when it does Nocatee is poised to be the place to be for years to come in Jacksonville. If you haven't been down this way, come and check it out. I bought a home here in Coastal Oaks and I think it is just amazing what they have done here already.
I've driven through there plenty of times and am far from impressed. Basically another "signature" Florida development of stucco homes with lots of grass and fewer trees. The only brownie points I give them is for "preserving" the Intracoastal frontage.
For Nocatee to become the place to be a dethrone SJTC, it'll take a lot, and I mean A LOT more than what is going on down there now. To get the stores that SJTC has now, the metro area as a whole needs to double or triple it's population in order for retailers to look at setting up another location. I'm talking about the high-end retailers, not the typical, every mall stuff.
Sounds like reednavy does likes Ben Carter's development better than The Park Group's development. Is it because of the location, an success, or the environmental impact Nocatee has had?
The Davis family legacy will be Winn Dixie.
[quote author=reednavy)
So, as with the WGV, Nocatee will probably not be built as was originally planned because the freckin bottom fell out of a rather speculative residential market, which hurts the overall plan.
[/quote]
I agree that the bottom fell out. The new plan has far less homes planned. (300)
The original plan was for 1,400 residential units. Go to original plan on the below link.
http://thedevlingroup.com/gallery_esplanade_st_johns.html
Quote from: buckethead on February 18, 2010, 07:52:41 AM
SJTC exists on a former dairy pasture, and what used to be one of the most picturesque views in Jax.
From I-95 to the Beach is now desired real estate. It took about 20 years.
SJTC is built on old dairy pasture. Skinners Dairy. It never ran from I95 to the beach. Who would describe a dairy pasture as "most picturesque" Did you ever go cow tipping in your life?
Quote from: thelakelander on November 29, 2009, 09:18:30 AM
If the Esplanade isn't dead, its indefinitely delayed. There is also a recession at SJTC. None of those long rumored department stores (Macy's, Nordstroms, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdales, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc.) that were locks to open at SJTC have showed up.
I do not think the developers know what the finished product will look like.
I do know that it will be very upscale, and great for the people who in the area. In addition, the people going north, and south on I95.
Quote from: British Shoe Company on February 18, 2010, 07:42:01 PM
Sounds like reednavy does likes Ben Carter's development better than The Park Group's development. Is it because of the location, an success, or the environmental impact Nocatee has had?
The Davis family legacy will be Winn Dixie.
Pfft, keep tellin yourself I like the Esplanade over anything in Nocatee. I honestly hate both of em.
Quote from: British Shoe Company on February 18, 2010, 08:05:14 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 29, 2009, 09:18:30 AM
If the Esplanade isn't dead, its indefinitely delayed. There is also a recession at SJTC. None of those long rumored department stores (Macy's, Nordstroms, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdales, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc.) that were locks to open at SJTC have showed up.
I do not think the developers know what the finished product will look like.
I do know that it will be very upscale, and great for the people who in the area. In addition, the people going north, and south on I95.
The Esplanade is dead. It won't be cheap or upscale. Carter isn't moving forward with it. They've moved on.
Esplanade at St. Johns
Status: Unknown.
Location: A 30-acre site at the northeast quadrant of International Golf Parkway and Interstate 95 adjacent to the World Golf Village.
Developer: Ben Carter Properties Inc. and The Devlin Group.
Original plan: Up to 1.3 million square feet with a retail mix of department stores, movie theaters, shops and restaurants along with 15 outparcels.
First proposed: Construction was expected to be complete in the summer of 2009.
Update: Developers did not return phone calls and e-mails.
Its tied to Devlin who has defaulted on the San Sebastian Harbor... I don't see this thing ever being built.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-04-15/story/first-coast-building-projects-still-taking-shape
QuoteEsplanade at St. Johns
Back in 2007, developer Ben Carter announced a large shopping center planned near the World Golf Village in St. Johns County. The Esplanade at St. Johns would be 1.2 million square feet and similar to the St. Johns Town Center in Jacksonville, which Carter also developed.
It would open, he said, by 2010.
But within a year, as the economy struggled, the center was already on hold. Now it's gone completely.
Carter said Wednesday that while he expects someone will put a large retail center into that area eventually, he no longer has any plans to do it.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on May 14, 2010, 02:08:54 PM
http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-04-15/story/first-coast-building-projects-still-taking-shape
QuoteEsplanade at St. Johns
Back in 2007, developer Ben Carter announced a large shopping center planned near the World Golf Village in St. Johns County. The Esplanade at St. Johns would be 1.2 million square feet and similar to the St. Johns Town Center in Jacksonville, which Carter also developed.
It would open, he said, by 2010.
But within a year, as the economy struggled, the center was already on hold. Now it's gone completely.
Carter said Wednesday that while he expects someone will put a large retail center into that area eventually, he no longer has any plans to do it.
The developer who signs an anchor tenant first will be the developer!
I still think Ben Carter is still in the race, because on SJTC's performance.
Quote from: reednavy on November 02, 2009, 10:09:50 PM
So, how's the Streets of Buckhead doing?
Not so good from the last time I checked, and with it being Ben Carter's golden egg, don't expect much, if any, progress on this development for a while, if ever.
6/4/10
Breaking news: Streets of Buckhead
project construction to resume in July
By staff reports
According to an Atlanta newspaper, the Streets of Buckhead project will resume construction as early as July after an 18-month hiatus.
Ben Carter, founder and chairman of Buckhead-based Ben Carter Properties, which is developing Streets, said he will close on a new $200 million loan in mid-July, and construction would resume right after the funding is secured.
Carter would not disclose the lender but said it is an American firm that will provide the funding to help finish the $800 million project.
Carter broke ground on the development in August 2007 but construction halted last year when he decided to renegotiate costs with his general contractor after the economy soured.
The Streets projects aims to become the “Rodeo Drive of the South,†Carter said, with high-end shops, restaurants and apartments. He also said he has letters of intent from restaurants, a movie theatre with a bar and restaurant, an upscale bowling alley and office space for a catering company, but would not name the tenants.
Carter said Streets is expected to open in November 2011. The project was originally supposed to open in late 2009.
Carter already had a traditionally structured land loan for $170 million from Bank of America and $150 million in other funding from CBRE Investors. The project got another $20 million in private funds from Carter and three business partners, he said.
Buckhead Coalition President Sam Massell said the announcement that construction could resume next month is a blessing to the neighborhood.
“It’s very meaningful because it’s really become a focal point of our community and it has great potential for benefit to the surrounding area," he said. "Great developments have always required faith on the part of the investor, and the public hopefully will have faith in Ben Carter.â€
Dirt, lots and lots of dirt, a freaking mountain of dirt is moving in the SW corner of I-95 and International Golf Parkway in WGV! WTF? Anyone know?
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, what I have been told is they are "working" on the site to maintain their permit. I am not in construction, just have heard from folks who are. No building for some time.
No building for some time to say the least. The # of homes and residents they expected will not materialize for many more years now, and there is no need for a development of this size to begin with right now. It'd just be adding more commercial space in an already more than saturated market.
Reed, I would disagree w/ regards to what was proposed at the SW corner of IGP and 95. That was going to be basically a stripmall w/ big box retailers. Between the residents of 210, WGV, 16 and Palencia you have more than enough. Maybe not for the mall/Esplanade, but def. for a big box strip mall. LOTS of people live out that way.
Quote from: St. Auggie on June 06, 2010, 11:35:27 AM
Reed, I would disagree w/ regards to what was proposed at the SW corner of IGP and 95. That was going to be basically a stripmall w/ big box retailers. Between the residents of 210, WGV, 16 and Palencia you have more than enough. Maybe not for the mall/Esplanade, but def. for a big box strip mall. LOTS of people live out that way.
I could care less about the big box stores, I'm talking about this development in particular. Just a matter of time before Lowe's or Homo Depot set up shop there, which would be an excellent fit for that area, especially one with a large garden center. Why a large garden center? Look at what isn't there anymore, shade trees.
Costco would be a great fit for the area also.
Quote from: reednavy on June 06, 2010, 12:19:24 PM
Quote from: St. Auggie on June 06, 2010, 11:35:27 AM
Reed, I would disagree w/ regards to what was proposed at the SW corner of IGP and 95. That was going to be basically a stripmall w/ big box retailers. Between the residents of 210, WGV, 16 and Palencia you have more than enough. Maybe not for the mall/Esplanade, but def. for a big box strip mall. LOTS of people live out that way.
I could care less about the big box stores,
Except the recent discussion, namely what Ock brought up, was about the SW corner, not Esplanade, which is what I was writing about.
Perhaps a St Johns version of The River City Market Place. While I wish we all lived in a more dense enviroment, I do believe there are more then enough people out here to make it work today.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: St. Auggie on June 06, 2010, 08:03:47 AM
Ock, what I have been told is they are "working" on the site to maintain their permit. I am not in construction, just have heard from folks who are. No building for some time.
I've heard the same St. Auggie. I was a bit excited when I saw the activity but it appears that something is really nothing.
What exactly was approved today?