QuoteBy David Chapman, Staff Writer
Completed in 1916, the former National Guard Armory has served many purposes.
The home for National Guard troops, a place to train. It's been a spot for social gatherings, an entertainment venue with boxing matches, concerts. Most recently, it's housed city departments.
The site has been discussed as a possible elections office and a homeless day center, but neither idea went anywhere.
It's been vacant for years, has deteriorated and needs work.
In 2011, the city Recreation Department asked nonprofits to submit ideas they had for the facility. The Sons of Confederate Veterans, Kirby-Smith Camp 1209 responded and has since worked with the city on plans to restore the building and turn it into a museum. A bill for a lease was filed with City Council in June.
"What the building represents is the history of Jacksonville and the military heritage of Jacksonville," said Calvin Hart, camp commander.
Then, something happened. A group of four nonprofits came forth seeking the historic site, wanting to turn it into an arts and education hub.
Suddenly, the armory is a hot piece of real estate.
full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=541143
"We think we have a better use of this space for the community and the city of Jacksonville," McAvoy said. Hart disagrees with the notion. "It's about the building," he said. "That's complete disrespect to the veterans who served out of the armory and sacrificed. It's becoming a veterans issue now."
Seriously? A veteran's issue? C'mon now. The last tenant was the COJ Parks Department, not soldiers. My father and father-in-law were WWII veterans. My mom headed up a Women's Voluntary Service Core unit. I have relatives that fought in the Revolution, and at least one I know of that fought for the Confederacy. I respect our veterans and appreciate every day the freedoms I have because of the price they paid.
BUT...it is my firm opinion that the proposed arts hub is the better use of this facility for the neighborhood and the City of Jacksonville than a military museum. No matter who runs it. And when the Sons of the Confederacy first proposed its use of the building, I felt the same way. I felt that wasn't the best use of the building, for the community or the City.
That's a big ass building. Why can't they share the space, and that way the cost of renovations, and upkeep wouldn't fall on one entity.
If there's so much interest in the building, why try an RFP to see if someone can pay for it?
Also: www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/11/25/sclc-opposes-sons-of-confederate.html
KKK and ballet
Wow, I am hardly a fan of people waving a confederate flag, but to compare The Sons of The Confederacy to the KKK is ridiculous.
I think as a City owned property that its best to revise the RFP if this becomes a major dispute but keep in mind from what I understand Sons of the Confederacy responded to the initial RFP and the new group is late to the party.I'm not sure either proposed use is ideal but with this much interest, maybe a new RFP is the best answer so as to evaluate interest and best outcome for the City.
Also, I understand this is the age of politicization but I certainly think characterizing the Sons of the Confederacy as the KKK is way out of line. I am sure they have had issues with radical factions as have every organization including the SCLC but their membership contains an awful lot of former governors, politicians, business people and celebrities to be a bastion of racist hate. Keep it classy.
Quote from: MEGATRON on November 25, 2013, 05:20:24 PM
Quote from: sheclown on November 25, 2013, 04:19:50 PM
KKK and ballet
Wow. What an asinine thing to say.
You're right...the proposed art project is much larger than just ballet.
Now wait a minute, I thought mentioning the KKK was OK, after all, we do have a racially minority high school named after the original Imperial Wizard.
I personally do not care who gets the Armory as long as whichever group does, it has the proper resources to do the required repairs and that it's program brings in a large enough group of people to downtown that it justifies the $ 1.00 a year lease. I don't know enough about the Sons of Confederate Veterans to say if they can deliver or not. I will say the comment about someone saying that the arts idea for the armory is an insult to veterans and insinuating that they are going to make this a veteran's issue is no better that the obviously tongue in check "KKK and Ballet" comment.
Metrojacksonville: where we talk about the elephant in the room.
(Now, THAT's classy)
Quote from: icarus on November 25, 2013, 05:13:31 PM
[...] their membership contains an awful lot of former governors, politicians, business people and celebrities to be a bastion of racist hate. Keep it classy.
(implyïng that the south isn't chock goddamn full ov racist governors, politicians, business people, and celebrities)
2013-384 is the active piece of legislation. The current applicant told me after the 6/25/13 Public hearing that they could support 24/7 Public Access to Hogans Creek. Councilwoman Kimberly Daniels the sponsor of the legislation is opposed to this friendly amendment.
Wow...race baiting...how enlightened. Next thing will be publicly shaming those who had relatives that simply lived in the South prior to 1863.
What a bunch of assh**es.
Well...I asked for it. :D
Just remember, when you read a statement like "It's a Veteran's issue", it is exactly the same thing as saying it is a "white" issue or "black" issue. The purpose of saying it is to create the impression that one group is being unfairly treated and so you need to find in their favor. To make an informed decision about something, you need to get, well, informed yourself, and get past the hype.
Let's look at this another way, if a group called the Sons of the Northern Conquerors was trying to get the Armory, what would you be saying?
Quote from: stephendare on November 28, 2013, 12:01:20 AM
What on earth do you mean with this whole 'race baiting' nonsense?
I'm pretty sure that was in reference to the Sons of the Confederacy / KKK analogy
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/02/11/once-again-racism-rears-up-in-the-sons-of-confederate-veterans/
Change the name of Forrest High School (to Lynyrd Skynyrd High or whatever) then transfer that old NBF name to the Armory for the Sons of the Confederate Veterans. Viola, problem instantly solved!!! JK
http://wreg.com/2013/02/20/the-naacp-and-the-sons-of-the-confederate-veterans-join-forces-against-the-kkk/
This is a compelling statement about the SCV position on the KKK. I apologize for my previous post.
I've always liked this old building, and hope it doesnt fall into decay as bad as Bostwick. When did the Recreation Department move out?
Back...I think it has only been a couple of years.
Yes. The building needs to be saved.
Just a curiosity ... How does COJ determine these issues? I mean a $1 lease is great for something that will restore historic property and add something to the community. However couldn't they simply sell the property with some sort of caveat that it must be some sort of public use? I mean many of these old armories have been turned into privately owned or at least operated museums or concert venues. I guess what I'm getting at is how did COJ figure ROI before entertaining these two organizations?
Also, it seems the SCV had an inside lead, and once it was made public this artist group threw their hat in. Doesn't something like this, especially at only $1 lease, go to some type of bidding? Let all of the nonprofits in Jax bid for the space starting at $1/yr, then goes to highest bidder that meets city/area/neighborhood needs.
From what some of the articles have stated, SCV responded to an RFP for the property a while back and the artist group did not. With that said, I seriously doubt COJ has done any in depth studying concerning ROI for the property.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 30, 2013, 09:37:55 PM
With that said, I seriously doubt COJ has done any in depth studying concerning ROI for the property.
You would think that would be step 1 ... I mean isn't that the largest part of being a steward of community property? If it isn't policy, it should be!
^one would think.
Quote from: JayBird on November 30, 2013, 10:13:34 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 30, 2013, 09:37:55 PM
With that said, I seriously doubt COJ has done any in depth studying concerning ROI for the property.
You would think that would be step 1 ... I mean isn't that the largest part of being a steward of community property? If it isn't policy, it should be!
Not in Jacksonville.^^
Let's remember the RAM dock is only open when RAM is open. Not good.
LPS- Let People Succeed
11/13/13 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting and agenda item III Blue Way Designation REQUEST of St. Johns River Alliance. Back room deals. 11 other counties put forth a resolution. Not one or two or three or 5,6,7,8 but 11 other counties. Duval county was a BLANK. No Show. What is positive about that?
Palms Fish Camp- A million bucks and you never even open the door.
PS4-Landlocked by a Foundation.
Still have an open contest for any MJ'er that posts a picture of the new Waterway signage that was never before Waterways. I'll treat you to Chopstick Charley's and we will use Uber or Super Uber.
Battle for the armory? How about all the city owned property that is on the other side of this creek? Let's give it away with zero Public Access.
Pick and choose the winners and losers.
Hogans Creek a tributary that flows and joins our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone.
from "The Artery" facebook page:
Today was a pretty tough day for us. We attended the Finance Committee meeting and the discussion about the ARTery lasted about 1 1/2 hr. Many issues were discussed. First there was an interest in pursuing an RFP process, but it was later revealed that there had been a Letter of Interest (LOI) issued in 2011 to which the Sons of the Confederate Veterans (SCV) were the only ones to respond. Although it hasn't been acted on the process was still valid, so reissuing an new RFP to include us would be setting a new precedent..
There are many that would also like us the share the space with the SCV.
There were also a number of issues raised about the RFP, RFI and LOI processes that should be fixed. A key concern was that there wasn't a qualification of respondents to ensure they could tackle this big a job.
In the end the vote was successful to move the bill out of the Finance Committee to the full Council, which meets Tuesday 12/10 at 5:00PM. That meeting will decide our fate.
https://www.facebook.com/theArteryJax
I'd really be curious to know how well publicized the Letter of Interest (LOI) was back in 2011. I'd like to think I was fairly plugged into things in the area back at that time and didn't hear about it. Did anyone else?
The reality is that the LOI shouldn't decide who gets the building. It should have been used as a way to determine if the city could realistically expect to get bidders in the RFP process and what the city could expect to get back from the deal...basically it should have been used to help COJ tailor the RFP based on realistic possibilities. Now the city has at least 2 interested parties and the building has become well publicized. Wouldn't surprise me if others pursued the building if an RFP was issued.
I've got my own personal preference here and I'm sure others do as well on both sides. The fact of the matter though is that if the city gives this to the Sons of the Confederacy without issuing the RFP and giving others a fair chance, it is a backroom deal. That's not democracy and not how our city should work.
Quote from: CityLife on December 04, 2013, 11:06:13 AM
I've got my own personal preference here and I'm sure others do as well on both sides. The fact of the matter though is that if the city gives this to the Sons of the Confederacy without issuing the RFP and giving others a fair chance, it is a backroom deal. That's not democracy and not how our city should work.
+100
What I really don't understand is the argument that the SVC would be getting the building for $1. I'm sure at this point there are plenty of other entities who would be willing to take over the building and fix it up if we're willing to let it go for $1.
The LOI process would have needed to be public. If COJ complied with the requirements in 2011, its not a backroom deal. And, the fact that two years later another party came forward does not magically make it so.
I personally think the arts are more likely to contribute to the benefit of downtown and increase activity more so than a history museum. But, everyone needs to be real careful as to how this is handled.
Investors and interested parties need to know that when they deal with COJ and devote time and resources to a project that COJ won't backout in the last minute because a better offer came in. To do so now without some definitive legal or flawed procedural point would set a dangerous precedent and further call into question doing business with COJ and in the Urban Core generally.
^That is true, but in this case we're talking about an investment of only $1 and repairs. I just don't think saving face is necessarily a reason to stick with a group that's only putting $1 into the deal.
A LOI is not the same as an RFP by any stretch of the imagination. The Mayor's Office wanted to put the homeless day center at the Armory about a year ago.
@Icarus. Well of course the LOI was public, never said it wasn't. There is a big difference between quietly putting something on the city's website and publicizing it through the news media and community groups so that potentially interested parties actually hear about it. I looked into opening a live music venue at two places within about a quarter mile of this site (EHT Building and Earl Horne Building) about a year before this, but it wasn't even remotely feasible to rehab in the private market. A $1 lease would have made it much more attainable. Again, like I said, I was plugged into this area and lived a mile away, but never heard a word about the LOI. If you think that isn't an issue, you are welcome to that opinion, but I feel otherwise.
I jokingly said it before in another thread and will do so again...who wants to get the Old Courthouse and City Hall with me? Just have to find a councilperson to sponsor it, issue the LOI and voila we're set.
What pool of funds are going to be used to renovate this? I would like to know how many taxpayer dollars are being spent. Furthermore, a museum which celebrates "The Second American Revolution" -- what... are we going to take school children there on field trips? Explain that war to me.
From the website:
The citizen-soldiers who fought for the Confederacy personified the best qualities of America. The preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South's decision to fight the Second American Revolution. The tenacity with which Confederate soldiers fought underscored their belief in the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. These attributes are the underpinning of our democratic society and represent the foundation on which this nation was built.
Today, the Sons of Confederate Veterans is preserving the history and legacy of these heroes so that future generations can understand the motives that animated the Southern Cause.
The SCV is the direct heir of the United Confederate Veterans, and the oldest hereditary organization for male descendents of Confederate soldiers. Organized at Richmond, Virginia in 1896, the SCV continues to serve as a historical, patriotic, and non-political organization dedicated to ensuring that a true history of the 1861-1865 period is preserved.
Membership in the Sons of Confederate Veterans is open to all male descendants of any veteran who served honorably in the Confederate armed forces.
http://scv.org/
CityLife - I really can't defend the history of cronyism in COJs dealings. In fact, I have split feelings as to how much of it is incompetence in execution of duties by COJ staff and how much of it is the kind of backroom dealings that have been the hallmark of our city governance.
I believe that the bid and RFP process were both brought up in the meetings on consolidation as areas woefully due for improvement. I personally think that COJ has been entirely deficient in accounting for City assets, i.e. property, and effectively managing their sale and development. Of course, my basic opinion remains the same ... we have to respect the rule of law and move to make the changes necessary so that such things don't happen again. If a procedure, rule or law was found to be broken, I wholeheartedly support a new RFP process.
Sheclown - My understanding, limited as it is, is that no public dollars are being used on the restoration and repair of the armory. This is the justification for the $1 lease. I have real concerns about the financial ability of either group to make the repairs in a timely manner and personally feel COJ is directly responsible for permitting the deterioration of the structure.
As to the explaining the Civil War, based on your rather vocal opinions, I dare say we could have a rather lengthy conversation about the war and its reasons. Suffice it to say, the war was about a lot more than slavery and definitely about economics (of which slavery was a part) and independence. I'm not sure there were clean hands on any side of the war and as I said, we could spend a great deal of time on the subject.
******
I'm trying to be independent on the issue. I definitely see the value of an arts environment over the museum but again .. my concern is the rule of law and its effects on future developments.
It is easy to find out -- a public records request
QuoteI believe that the bid and RFP process were both brought up in the meetings on consolidation as areas woefully due for improvement. I personally think that COJ has been entirely deficient in accounting for City assets, i.e. property, and effectively managing their sale and development. Of course, my basic opinion remains the same ... we have to respect the rule of law and move to make the changes necessary so that such things don't happen again. If a procedure, rule or law was found to be broken, I wholeheartedly support a new RFP process.
I agree that the City should be getting off their @sses and start putting the very large inventory of property they (or WE) hold to good use.
Again though, an RFP has not been issued for the Armory. I've maintained from the beginning of this debate that the City should be issuing an RFP on the building instead of this nonsense Councilwoman Daniels is doing.
@SheClown: public taxpayer dollars = $0.00 otherwise it would be a much more expensive lease arrangement.
@Fieldafm: isn't there some sort of rfp or something that has been floating around to get inventory and uses? Also, isn't there a clear outline for leasing city property or how it's suppose to be done?
I too question the ability of both who are currently in the running for it, as the few numbers thrown around have been in the $2-5M arena. Both of these groups have that much money just sitting there waiting to be used for a space? If that's the case, then whoever loses out of the armory should go right down to Orange & Main and start there. Overlooking Confederate Park is some nice scenery! And one of the groups might be able to use that to their advantage.
I do hope that COJ will be smart enough to put in some kind of stipulation that the work must be completed within a set amount of time, for whomever takes the space. At the end of the day, I think whichever group takes it will treat it better than Parks & Rec did.
Quote@Fieldafm: isn't there some sort of rfp or something that has been floating around to get inventory and uses? Also, isn't there a clear outline for leasing city property or how it's suppose to be done?
Several City officials have said that COJ Real Estate is trying to do a thorough inventory of all COJ-owned property.
As far as there being a clear process, I can name several examples of private investors approaching the City trying to put an offer on properties that either were met with dumbfounded looks.. or an RFP process that was completely inept.
The procurement process leaves a lot to be desired.
I think a striking example of the inept process is Intuition's interest in the real estate on Forest. An established local company wanting to redevelop an ash site/park .... and yet we all wait ....
I know the DIA has specifically advertised for at least two positions dealing with the re-purposing of city real property and fostering development downtown ... hopefully this leads to some type of a change in an obviously broken process.
Maybe, the Artery could take this level of interest and the hidden cache of money and redevelop School No. 4. It seems with the old classrooms that it would be perfect for their intended use ...
Quote from: icarus on December 04, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
Maybe, the Artery could take this level of interest and the hidden cache of money and redevelop School No. 4. It seems with the old classrooms that it would be perfect for their intended use ...
That would be my vote. With everything going on in Riverside along the I-95 corridor from RAM to Artist's Walk to Riverside Dog Park, the PS4 would be the perfect location for a non-profit art center. Both performing and visual.
sheclown messing this thread up with a bunch of anti-SCV rhetoric is really annoying
Quote from: MEGATRON on December 04, 2013, 05:44:42 PM
sheclown messing this thread up with a bunch of anti-SCV rhetoric is really annoying
wow. I didn't really think I had that much power.
Quote from: icarus on December 04, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
I think a striking example of the inept process is Intuition's interest in the real estate on Forest. An established local company wanting to redevelop an ash site/park .... and yet we all wait ....
I know the DIA has specifically advertised for at least two positions dealing with the re-purposing of city real property and fostering development downtown ... hopefully this leads to some type of a change in an obviously broken process.
Maybe, the Artery could take this level of interest and the hidden cache of money and redevelop School No. 4. It seems with the old classrooms that it would be perfect for their intended use ...
Tarpon owns it right now. The city could foreclose on the rolling fines like Bostwick.
Is the school inside the downtown area and eligible for some of that preservation money? How much is in that pot of gold anyway?
COJ could foreclose on the fines on Annie Lytle but I would take it a step further.
The Trust's segregation of the school building from the surrounding property was a structured transaction (fraudulent conveyance-statute of frauds) to avoid legal liability for the fines and taxes on the building. I'd push to foreclose on all of the adjacent property owned by the Trust as well under that theory. I tend to be aggressive though.
If designated as a historic building, there is also the possibility of obtaining tax credits for the restoration which could be sold to help fund the restoration.
That location makes much more sense for an arts program than the Armory.
How big is that school ?
Hie much land is around it ?
QuoteI too question the ability of both who are currently in the running for it, as the few numbers thrown around have been in the $2-5M arena.
Sage advise considering the city's record in the past (ie that Horse arena at Cecil Field and the LaVilla property that a fraternity was suppose to renovate.
Quote from: sheclown on December 04, 2013, 07:36:44 PM
How big is that school ?
Hie much land is around it ?
I don't know the exact SF but it feels HUGE. Two stories of thick concrete walls and roof. Once inside, you would never know that an interstate highway runs over it. The old auditorium lost its roof to the fire but the side walls and stage remain. Great location for outdoor theater. Send a PM to dogwalker and I'm sure he would give you a tour. He has legal permission to enter the building along with a few others.
It isn't considered part of downtown and I doubt DIA intends to spend money for this type of thing regardless.
It falls within the border of the area deemed as downtown by the former JEDC. However, I doubt they'd throw any money its way, since it's on the fringe. I also don't think there's much money they can toss around on the projects that want in the Northbank anyway.
Who is "they" and what is the criteria ?
Quote from: JayBird on December 04, 2013, 11:16:48 AM
Quote from: CityLife on December 04, 2013, 11:06:13 AM
I've got my own personal preference here and I'm sure others do as well on both sides. The fact of the matter though is that if the city gives this to the Sons of the Confederacy without issuing the RFP and giving others a fair chance, it is a backroom deal. That's not democracy and not how our city should work.
+100
+$1,000,000 and that is the amount that we will be giving the guys with PALMS FISH CAMP and they never even opened the door. This is a total Backroom deal and the absolute crushing of the PUBLIC TRUST.
Planning a RICO paddle on Hogans Creek a tributary that leads to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL, FEDERAL, FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone. This is Pre Aundra Wallace. Paul Astleford is a superhero. Ben- JCCI remember during the River Dance study "Putting the River in River City" and taking the yacht on the St. johns River? let's put the kayak in ASAP. You can't have more of a Backroom deal if an amendment is not attached for 24/7 Public Access to Hogans Creek.
Governor Scott- Please help!
Charlie C, Chopstick C- Please help!
HUGE DIA meeting tomorrow at 4pm in the first floor of the Ed Ball Building. Bring your egg nogg.
Only in Jacksonville would the city give a building to confederate musuem that only needs a fourth of the building over a group of arts organizations that would use all the building. When was the last time a confederate musuem raised millions of dollars to renovate a space or played a part in the renewal of the downtown neighborhood. There are too many exmaples of arts groups doing this around the country to list. This looks like a no brainer What am I missing here?
You're missing the point that Kim Daniels is trying to cajole votes from the kind of fanatical groups that put her in power.
Looks like Gulliford isn't happy with the process either
Quotethe council will face opposition not just from other groups who want the building, but from some who think the entire process is flawed.
One of them is City Council President Bill Gulliford.
He's not taking sides as to who gets to use the building, or for what purpose, but said he objects to the process that the city is going through to make a decision. The Armory, which has a basement and first and second floors, needs extensive renovations, which the city has estimated would cost about $9 million. He is concerned that the Sons of Confederate Veterans Kirby-Smith Camp 1209 will not be able to raise the initial $2.4 million they have pledged to raise for necessary repairs, and that the deteriorating building will remain empty, which would be bad for the city.
"I don't think this is being done in the right way," Gulliford said. Anyone who has a proposal for use of the building should be able to present it, to make sure the city gets the best deal, he said. At this point, he's not "keen on the deal" with the Sons group, because they have not raised any money yet, and so "don't have any skin in the game," he said
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/12/09/armory-leasing-process-called-into.html
Here's a great guest column about the issue:
"As a Realtor for more than 20 years, I have to say that the process of how the city of Jacksonville utilizes its assets/properties, is mind-boggling.
If I were to list the home of a city official and only tell a few of my friends that it was for sale, how would the seller have any confidence that the contract I end up bringing them is the best one?
That is much how I've discovered it works with city-owned properties. There is no easy way for a consumer/business/non-profit organization to find out what properties the city owns and has available for sale or lease.
Which brings us to the Armory. I have no idea if either the proposal from the Sons of the Confederacy or the proposal by The Artery is a good deal for the city and the neighborhood, much less whether it's the best one, because it's been kept a quasi-secret.
There could be other groups in the city or even outside the city looking for a space like this but have no idea it exists. Without a way to make that information public, the city is always marketing its assets as though they are "pocket listings."
But let's assume the word is out. The property has been exposed to the market and you now have two proposals on the table. Both have merits, as these do.
It would still be a bad decision to enter into a lease with either one without some very concrete plans by that entity of how they intend to pay for the improvements necessary to utilize the building and the timetable for doing so.
If I was the Realtor, I would want written assurance in the form of a performance bond that the entity leasing the property has some "skin in the game."
The city should not be leasing the property to any organization with no funding or wherewithal to get the work done and operate. If it's to be done by the organization's members then that needs to be spelled out in detail.
Let's look at the current entities that are proposing to lease. The financial wherewithal could end up being equal on each, so then the question is not which one got proposed first, but which one offers a greater benefit to the neighborhood and the community at large.
An arts-related group has a broader appeal and greater reach than one devoted to Southern military history. I don't have anything against that group, and in fact my grandfather (yes, I'm that old) fought in the Civil War for the South. But does an organization that has never had a facility before actually have a plan to utilize a 60,000 square foot building?
I see no reason to rush to a decision. The council first needs assurances that the property has been exposed to the open market in such a way as to feel confident they have reached any potential tenants. Then, any entity with a proposal should also put forth specific plans for renovation, budgets and timetables. There should be consequences if they are not met, including the termination of the lease and the forfeit of the performance bond.
Then the merits of the organization's relationship to the community and what it can do for the city should become the final decision-making point.
As a resident of Historic Springfield I'd love to see this property become a viable operation that anchors the Southern tip of our neighborhood. Please put in the due diligence necessary to insure that this is handled in the best way possible.
Crissie Cudd is a Realtor and branch manager."
From:
www.jacksonville.com/opinion/premium-opinion/2013-12-09/story/guest-column-realtor-calls-improved-process-armory?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JacksonvillecomsNewsSportsAndEntertainment+%28Jacksonville%27s+Most+Recent+Headlines+-+Jacksonville.com+and+The+Florida+Times-Union%29
Tonight is the night. If you haven't done so alreasdy, let City Council (and the Mayor's office) know you oppose 2013-384.
Good write up Crissie!
Very nicely written and well thought out Crissie.
The bill was withdrawn. I'd like to say all's well that ends well, but we'll see. : )
So no longer a bill to give it to the Vets? Did they talk about an RFP?
since the bill was withdrawn, it can be brought back at any time...the main thing Council members said they want to see is a business plan and proof an entity can raise the needed $
+1^ Still be vigilant about Public Access and economic opportunity to Hogans Creek a tributary that leads to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative next to our new highly restricted DIA zone.
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 10, 2013, 09:45:23 PM
since the bill was withdrawn, it can be brought back at any time...the main thing Council members said they want to see is a business plan and proof an entity can raise the needed $
Or waiting for public attention to fade...
Quote from: Kay on December 10, 2013, 07:55:08 PM
So no longer a bill to give it to the Vets? Did they talk about an RFP?
No rfp was discussed. Both groups are still interested. This will give them time to come up with a financial sound plan, more or less.
Always better to have the bill voted down, than withdrawn. Funny how they just reappear when nobody is looking.
Quote from: mbwright on January 15, 2014, 07:50:17 AM
Always better to have the bill voted down, than withdrawn. Funny how they just reappear when nobody is looking.
always...really? The fact that HRO was defeated meant it couldn't come back for at least one year. If it had been withdrawn, it could have come back the next week.