Metro Jacksonville

Community => The Photoboard => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on November 12, 2013, 03:09:13 AM

Title: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on November 12, 2013, 03:09:13 AM
Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2648766856_nZQZRG8-M.jpg)

Historically, Jacksonville has more in common with this city than the average person can believe. Common features have included tolls on Interstate 95, Interstate 295 as a beltway, being a  headquarters for CSX, festival marketplaces, Harlems of the South and underutilized urban waterways. However, when it comes to downtown revitalization, adaptive reuse and historic preservation, Richmond has been more than willing to work with existing building fabric. Here is a look at some common links Downtown Jacksonville shares with Downtown Richmond.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-nov-richmond-jacksonville-more-in-common-than-you-think
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: simms3 on November 12, 2013, 05:26:17 AM
Never been.  Does Richmond feel very large, or kind of small-townish?  Also, did you get any pics of "the Fan"?

Also, count the Legal Industry as a major player in Richmond.  Definitely a hub of big law firms.  I can think of 2 (McGuire Woods and Hunton & Williams) that are from there and I know there are more (plus tons with a presence there.  I think part of it is proximity to DC and its seat as capital of VA, but I also think that there's a generally abnormal amount of big business that happens in Richmond.  Short list:

Capital One (financials)
Dominion Resources (energy)
Meadwestvaco (industrials)
Altria (major conglomerate)
CarMax (consumers)
Brinks (consumer - security)
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: vicupstate on November 12, 2013, 05:27:00 AM
I recently visited two cities that preserved and rehabbed their warehouse districts.  Lincoln and Omaha NE both had very vibrant warehouse districts, just as Richmond does.  The W.Bay/W. Foryth - LaVilla area could have been the same for Jacksonville.  Unfortunately, that is now an unlikely proposition as the LaVilla buildings are gone.  Even worse is the fact that Jax has clearly not learned from that mistake, as witnessed by the demoltion in Springfield.  Will the warehouse district in Springfield be lost too?   
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Noone on November 12, 2013, 06:00:23 AM
Enjoyed the tour.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: thelakelander on November 12, 2013, 06:22:56 AM
Quote from: simms3 on November 12, 2013, 05:26:17 AM
Never been.  Does Richmond feel very large, or kind of small-townish?  Also, did you get any pics of "the Fan"?

The core area of the city feels larger than it really is. It has a pretty dense (existing building fabric) core area in comparison to most Sunbelt cities. Here's some images of the Fan. Great neighborhood.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Richmond-2013/i-9w668KQ/0/M/P1650662-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Richmond-2013/i-LjpdTQv/0/M/P1650661-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Richmond-2013/i-qbVHfwM/0/M/P1650660-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Richmond-2013/i-jGD4pJx/0/M/P1650658-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Richmond-2013/i-J7RCQ9q/0/M/P1650657-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Richmond-2013/i-tS72dMF/0/M/P1650655-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Richmond-2013/i-d7wvsdX/0/M/P1650654-M.jpg)

I didn't spend much time in Richmond during my recent trip.  I spent more time in downtown, the Fan, Carytown, etc. during a trip back in 2007.  Here's a link to that photo thread.

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3075-p1020527.jpg)

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-dec-learning-from-richmond
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: simms3 on November 12, 2013, 06:26:44 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on November 12, 2013, 05:27:00 AM
I recently visited two cities that preserved and rehabbed their warehouse districts.  Lincoln and Omaha NE both had very vibrant warehouse districts, just as Richmond does.

Went to Omaha this summer.  Totally forgot my camera too or I would have taken a ton of pics.  That town blew me away, frankly.  Honestly, while Jax destroyed what it did have, I don't think it ever had anything to the extent Richmond and Omaha still do (and upon further research Omaha apparently leveled most of its warehouse districts, but what's left is still impressive as hell...I think what it had actually made it a semi-rival to Chicago for certain industries for decades).  I know some girls that go to Creighton, so it was a no brainer partying with them downtown.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: thelakelander on November 12, 2013, 06:55:24 AM
Historically, Omaha and Richmond were slightly larger cities than Jax, although Jax was well on its way to catching them before stalling out in the 1950s. Looking at pre-WW2 density levels, we should have similar scaled urban cores at least.  Yet, I suspect the frame shotgun dominated neighborhoods like LaVilla, Brooklyn, Eastside, Sugar Hill, etc. gave us our peak 20th century density.  On the other hand, Richmond's core is dominated by brick rowhouse style housing. I'm not sure about Omaha.  Yet, given Omaha's isolated location, I suspect it was much more of an industrial center than Richmond and Jax.


1900

Omaha city, NE.....................    102,555

Richmond city, VA..................     85,050

Jacksonville, FL......................    28,429



1920

City -- Population -- Land Area -- Population Density

Omaha city, NE...........    191,601    36.9     5,192

Richmond city, VA........    171,667    24.0     7,153

Jacksonville city, FL....     91,558    15.4     5,945



1950

City -- Population -- Land Area -- Population Density

Omaha city, NE...........    251,117    40.7     6,170

Richmond city, VA........    230,310    37.1     6,208

Jacksonville city, FL....    204,517    30.2     6,772



1960

City -- Population -- Land Area -- Population Density

Omaha city, NE...........    301,598    51.2     5,891

Richmond city, VA........    219,958    37.0     5,945

Jacksonville city, FL....    201,030    30.2     6,657

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0027/tab13.txt


With this said, I'd consider the downtowns and core areas of cities like Omaha and Richmond more comparable to Jax's than cities like Atlanta, Houston or St. Louis or Chicago.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Noone on November 12, 2013, 07:31:48 AM
Never have been to Omaha or Richmond.

So tonight at city council is 2013-694 and $43,000,000 for a new TV. Good or bad? Taxpayer subsidized.
Call up to Richmond or Omaha we have $43,000,000 to spend. Where is it going?
Saw just two picks of the canal or whatever the waterway that was completed in 1999. So how is that working out? Open or restrictive like here in Jax?
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on November 12, 2013, 09:43:36 AM
Great job.  Agreed with Lake that the city feels larger than it is, due to the dense core.  The presence of large corporations, the accompanying wealth and upscale destinations, and the relative proximity to two other larger metros in DC and Hampton Roads, also give the metro area the feel of being a bigger place.

Sixth St. Marketplace failed in part because it was a Landing-type development glued to two department stores in a disjointed attempt to re-create the feel of a shopping mall in the center of the city.  It was schizophenic and lacked identity, seemingly trying to serve as a full-service mall but with the footprint and retail space sizes of a festival marketplace.  It also wasn't the easiest place to access either by car or foot, lacking an obvious main entrance; and the surrounding neighborhood was perceived as unsafe.  It still hung in there for a few years due to Richmonders' vestigial loyalties to the Thalhimers and Miller & Rhoads flagship stores, but once both of those chains were acquired and the downtown stores shuttered, the Marketplace was doomed.

Main St. Station, the large Amtrak station with the clock tower that appears in several of your photos, also served time as an unsuccessful outlet mall/urban festival marketplace development.  And the historic Tredegar Iron Works on the waterfront, now a history museum and Civil War interpretive center, had a short, strange stint as a sort of urban museum/amusement park.  Richmond tried and failed at a lot of the then-hot urban revitalization trends of the 80s, but importantly kept its historic fabric and has successfully leveraged that asset in the last decade and a half.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: fsquid on November 12, 2013, 12:20:24 PM
I come here once a month on business and have to agree with Wacca and Lake.  The relative intelligence of the average worker seems to be higher in Richmond too.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: simms3 on November 12, 2013, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: fsquid on November 12, 2013, 12:20:24 PM
I come here once a month on business and have to agree with Wacca and Lake.  The relative intelligence of the average worker seems to be higher in Richmond too.

Lol I can't comment, but FL as a state as a whole sets a pretty low bar in terms of overall intelligence.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: CG7 on November 12, 2013, 01:41:43 PM
I think it is more that we are not a bunch of pretentious douchebags.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: fsquid on November 12, 2013, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: CG7 on November 12, 2013, 01:41:43 PM
I think it is more that we are not a bunch of pretentious douchebags.

that's true, find more of those in Richmond
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: I-10east on November 12, 2013, 03:21:27 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 12, 2013, 06:22:56 AM
The core area of the city feels larger than it really is. It has a pretty dense (existing building fabric) core area in comparison to most Sunbelt cities.

I was thinking the same thing. Richmond is one of those cities that I didn't know much about, besides it being VA's capital; I really didn't expect all of these pics that I saw, as it seems like I vastly underestimated this city. This place has hella historical fabric throughout the city, and a respectable amount of F-500s to boot. Probably my most impressionable 'Learning from-esque' thread.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on November 12, 2013, 03:40:01 PM
Quote from: Noone on November 12, 2013, 07:31:48 AM
Never have been to Omaha or Richmond.

So tonight at city council is 2013-694 and $43,000,000 for a new TV. Good or bad? Taxpayer subsidized.
Call up to Richmond or Omaha we have $43,000,000 to spend. Where is it going?
Saw just two picks of the canal or whatever the waterway that was completed in 1999. So how is that working out? Open or restrictive like here in Jax?

I appreciate your dedication to water access issues, but you're miles off course on the "taxpayer subsidized TV" argument.

http://www.wokv.com/news/news/local/43-million-everbank-field-improvements-be-paid-thr/nbDNg/
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: jcjohnpaint on November 12, 2013, 06:01:15 PM
I was in Richmond about two years ago for a conference.  I was blown away by the historic fabric.  I really enjoyed walking around all of the streets.  I feel the city gains a lot from having VCU right outside of downtown.  VCU's art program is one of the best in the nation and THE best sculpture dept in the nation.  I noticed much art due to the the Universities presence, but I would have to say we don't do such a bad job here in Jacksonville for not having such a large program. 
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: edjax on November 12, 2013, 06:28:46 PM
I think he may just be off base. Gulliford just came close to having him removed from council chambers as he sang some nonsense of a song.  Issues. He being Noone.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: ProjectMaximus on November 13, 2013, 12:06:58 AM
Quote from: simms3 on November 12, 2013, 05:26:17 AM
Never been.  Does Richmond feel very large, or kind of small-townish?  Also, did you get any pics of "the Fan"?

Yeah, I'll add my vote to Richmond feeling like a large city at street level. I've only passed through twice...two years ago and last year...but both times I was very impressed and left wanting to return for a longer visit. I believe VCU is technically in the Fan District, which is a big reason why the Fan is what it is. Vibrant, cool vibe...and quite hipster-ish. When people talk about what city will be the next Portland and Austin, I usually think of Richmond first. Louisville and Grand Rapids are other possibilities (I've never been to GR...just based on what I've read)

Quote from: jcjohnpaint on November 12, 2013, 06:01:15 PM
I was in Richmond about two years ago for a conference.  I was blown away by the historic fabric.  I really enjoyed walking around all of the streets.  I feel the city gains a lot from having VCU right outside of downtown.  VCU's art program is one of the best in the nation and THE best sculpture dept in the nation.  I noticed much art due to the the Universities presence, but I would have to say we don't do such a bad job here in Jacksonville for not having such a large program. 

Yeah I didn't realize this until more recently. I was also at a conference and got to hang out with a professor of fashion history and design at VCU. She gets to fly to Japan regularly for long-term projects in Tokyo. The school has cache.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Agent99 on November 13, 2013, 10:26:48 AM
VCU also has the top advertising graduate program in the country. It's constantly visited by CEOs, CMOs, CCOs, and directors of brand, strategy, and innovation from the large agencies, top creative shops, and Fortune 500s.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Redbaron616 on November 13, 2013, 03:50:54 PM
I currently live in Midlothian, a suburb of Richmond in Chesterfield County. I have also lived in Jacksonville, granted, on the edge in Argyle. If the state capital wasn't in Richmond with its many state agencies and jobs, I believe the whole city would up and blow away. I rarely ever go into the city since everything I need is in the suburbs. Richmond is not that safe,either, particularly at night. Between the two, I would definitely prefer to live in Jacksonville, by a long shot. I intend to retire in the area in a few years.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: simms3 on November 14, 2013, 12:26:25 AM
^^^And Jacksonville [or insert any FL city and most southern cities here] has a "safe" reputation?

I just learned that Tobacco Row is actually for sale (since May 2013).  4 Apt buildings (719 apts renting for avg $1.18/sf) and 1 office building (165,000 SF, 97% leased primarily to Ernst & Young and local law and architecture firms).

The main brick loft apartment buildings (the late 1800s/early 1900s constructions) have names like American Cigar, Consolidate Carolina, Cameron Kinney, and Lucky Strike.

The following businesses can be found in Shockoe Bottom/Shockoe Slip:

321 Supper Club
The Canal Club
Pearl Martini Lounge
Honey Whytes
Havana '59
McCormick's Pub
River City Diner
Bistro Bobette
Buffalo Wild Wings
Mortons
Segway of Richmond
YMCA

and countless other restaurants and bars.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: I-10east on November 14, 2013, 02:48:44 AM
Quote from: simms3 on November 14, 2013, 12:26:25 AM
^^^And Jacksonville [or insert any FL city and most southern cities here] has a "safe" reputation?

Seems like you're definitely reaching for a counter-argument Simms. All the person did was simply state their opinion from experience. I swear, anytime anyone critiques any city outside of Jax, BAM! in comes the instant factory made counter-argument, complete of course with the obligatory Jax slighting. That's why I don't say certain things sometimes about cities (even cities that I've lived in) on MJ, because the immediate overly-protective defense comes in just like a knight in shining armor. I've just come to the conclusion on MJ that every city is perfect and Jax is the only city to have flaws....   
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: simms3 on November 14, 2013, 04:19:35 AM
^^^You're such a 1-tune song.  Please just...doi!  Your record has broken enough times to wipe out all remaining records on this planet.  I can't even believe you're still permitted to post when you literally don't ever contribute (more like detract every time you open up your keyboard lips).  Every time you put your pointer finger on a keyboard, a part of me dies.  Your keyboard serves as a voodoo medium against me - it's very painful.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: fsquid on November 14, 2013, 11:33:11 AM
all cities have their areas of high crime.  I'm sure Richmond is no different.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on November 14, 2013, 11:53:52 AM
Quote from: fsquid on November 14, 2013, 11:33:11 AM
all cities have their areas of high crime.  I'm sure Richmond is no different.

In the 80s and 90s, Richmond had one of the highest violent crime rates in the country.  It's improved substantially since then, I think.

The Washington Post frequently sensationalized Richmond crime coverage when I was growing up, contributing to the city's then negative reputation.  Many in the Richmond suburbs and other parts of Virginia still perceive the city as crime-riddled, but I'm pretty sure it's crime rate has dropped quite a bit.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: thelakelander on November 14, 2013, 11:56:35 AM
^Same goes for DC. Roughly 15 to 20 years ago, it was the Murder Capitol of the US. Now, you can't recognize the place from the early 1990s.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: I-10east on November 14, 2013, 09:37:01 PM
Quote from: stephendare on November 14, 2013, 07:38:46 AM
no kidding.  consistently some of the most grindingly uninformed posts weve ever had.

But it provides nice contrast, I suppose.

I appreciate the compliment, I suppose.  :)
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: I-10east on November 14, 2013, 10:11:32 PM
Quote from: simms3 on November 14, 2013, 04:19:35 AM
^^^You're such a 1-tune song.  Please just...doi!  Your record has broken enough times to wipe out all remaining records on this planet.  I can't even believe you're still permitted to post when you literally don't ever contribute (more like detract every time you open up your keyboard lips).  Every time you put your pointer finger on a keyboard, a part of me dies.  Your keyboard serves as a voodoo medium against me - it's very painful.

I definitely struck a nerve. Must have been hella accuracy within my earlier comments.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: krazeeboi on November 15, 2013, 01:59:08 AM
I've said it several times: Richmond is one of the most underrated cities in the country. Sure it has its warts like any other city, but it combines the positive aspects of the "Old South" cities (history, architecture, culture) with those of the "New South" cities (economy, pro-business attitude).
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Wacca Pilatka on November 15, 2013, 07:29:55 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 14, 2013, 11:56:35 AM
^Same goes for DC. Roughly 15 to 20 years ago, it was the Murder Capitol of the US. Now, you can't recognize the place from the early 1990s.

Absolutely.  I think a lot of the anti-Richmond coverage in the Post at that time was a veiled "Look, here's a city with worse problems than ours!" campaign.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: lewyn on November 19, 2013, 08:41:41 PM
The Fan mostly looks great.  Downtown mostly looks sterile.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: thelakelander on November 19, 2013, 09:15:22 PM
Yes, the Fan is a jewel. Unfortunately, I didn't get to spend much time in it during my last visit.
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Slankinship on November 19, 2013, 09:20:57 PM
I'm from Richmond and I've lived in Jax for the last 5 years. I'd think the biggest difference in the outcome of Jax and Richmond in development over the last 20 years stems from the historic pride the city has and the strength of VCU. Having a downtown campus with a strong art and engineering program has allowed the city to maintain a young and vibrant/intelligent presence during times when most people were moving into the apartments surrounding suburban mall centers instead of rehab downtown spaces.  Also, Richmond takes a lot of pride in its history and I doubt would have allowed demolition to the degree Jax has. The last 10 years has been all restoration work. 

Other prominent features not pictured is the $200 million Virginia Fine Art Museum renovation.... amazing. It has spurred renovation in the surrounding area which was nearly desolate 10 years ago including the baseball stadium, Hardywood Brewery and the new Bow Tie movieplex converted from a former brass foundry.   Of course, the James River, canal walk, and belle isle outside of shockoe bottom is the heart of the city. We already have that here in Jax with the St. Johns. :)
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: Orlanta on December 06, 2013, 10:54:40 PM
Nice read. 

I've always felt that Richmond was probably second to New Orleans in terms of historic building stock among the large sunbelt cities despite losing some to "urban renewal".   That alone gives the city a tremendous advantage that most of its southern peers cannot replicate.   I'm surprised it doesn't get more attention than it currently does but perceptions take a looong time to change.

I had no idea that Omaha was a large city early last century so I learned something new.  Now I have a new desire to visit Nebraska.  :)
Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: sheclown on December 07, 2013, 08:15:19 AM
QuoteRichmond is One of Frommer's' Top Destinations for 2014' in the World

You guys, "While you weren't looking, Richmond got cool."!!

So says Frommer's, the travel guidebook folks who are experts on travel all over the world, in its "Frommer's' Top Destinations for 2014."

Richmond is one of three spots in the U.S on this international list that includes Scotland, Bali, Rio de Janeiro and Taiwan.

You know, Taiwan, Bali, Rio de Janeiro and RVA... all the places every international traveler wants to visit.

So why is Richmond such a hot destination in 2014?

In part it's due to our proximity to important Civil War things during what is apparently a significant Civil War anniversary, but also because of this:

"But even if you don't care a whit about the war, Richmond is coming into its own as a choice regional destination with a growing slate of breweries, farm-to-table restaurants, and even white-water river rapid activities cutting right through downtown. While you weren't looking, Richmond got cool."

Right?!? Who gives whit about a history, we've got craft beer and good dining. And, really, that's what matters

http://www.richmond.com/city-life/article_8f6c257c-5c49-11e3-bdd1-001a4bcf6878.html

Title: Re: Richmond & Jacksonville: More In Common Than You Think
Post by: sheclown on December 07, 2013, 09:19:48 AM
I remember when Richmond was little more than an armpit.

Then again, 40 years ago, no one even said the word "Baltimore" out loud.

Preservation of building stock, preservation & restoration of the Chesapeake, an economy protected by federal jobs in the DC area -- these things helped both Richmond and Baltimore.

Oh and btw, Richmond regularly does section 106 reviews on all projects, federal dollars involved or not to make sure they are not endangering their historic stock.