http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/ (http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/)
The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase. The Braves saw the writing on the wall and went where the fans were. It is only a matter of time before the Jaguars decide a stadium somewhere off 295 is a necessity.
Quote from: FSBA on November 11, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/ (http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/)
The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase. The Braves saw the writing on the wall and went where the fans were. It is only a matter of time before the Jaguars decide a stadium somewhere off 295 is a necessity.
Wow...Turner Field is not an old park, to say the least.
Stunning. I thought it was a hoax at first. I spend a lot of time in Atlanta and had not even heard of this being possible.
Too bad they can't move Turner Field to Tampa.
Man, shock of the morning.
Crazy how this didn't leak out earlier.
Turner Field is less than 20 years old.
Here's the tract of land for the new stadium.
Approximately 22 miles -- or, 11 hours in Atlanta traffic -- from Turner Field.
(http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/610/img/photos/2013/11/11/b1/f7/bravescobb.JPG)
Wow...Turner Field is only 16 years old..
Anyone have attendance numbers over the last 5-10 years?
It'll be near 75/285, about 20 minutes north of Downtown.
Hard to believe they are making the move. It was a pain to get to the stadium from downtown ... bus transfers, etc. .. forget driving .. and no Marta connection.
Its a shame that the move to Cobb County is better for driving but hell and gone from a Marta connection and no real shuttle or BRT connection.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on November 11, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
It'll be near 75/285, about 20 minutes north of Downtown.
Isn't the proposed site already the most congested area, traffic wise, in all of Cobb County?
Could this be a ploy by the Braves to get more leverage with Atlanta?
If you would have told me about this yesterday, I wouldn't have believed it in a million years.
"[A]ccess to multiple transportation corridors" is my favorite excuse. The way to solve the transit connection problems with Turner Field is to move to the 'burbs, especially entirely road dependent (and train expansion refusing) Cobb County?
Mustering my best former Atlanta resident snottiness: OTP is not Atlanta. ;)
Turner Field is a very nice stadium. Jags are not moving off 295.
Quote from: FSBA on November 11, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/ (http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/)
The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase. The Braves saw the writing on the wall and went where the fans were. It is only a matter of time before the Jaguars decide a stadium somewhere off 295 is a necessity.
These are not close to comparable situations.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on November 11, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
Anyone have attendance numbers over the last 5-10 years?
It'll be near 75/285, about 20 minutes north of Downtown.
You can check the attendance here. The Braves have been at about the middle of the league for a number of years.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
Quote from: FSBA on November 11, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/ (http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/)
The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase. The Braves saw the writing on the wall and went where the fans were. It is only a matter of time before the Jaguars decide a stadium somewhere off 295 is a necessity.
Not really, this is kind of the opposite of the trend. 30 years ago it was the big thing to build stadiums in the suburbs, but since the 90s it has been much more common to build them in the urban center. What the Braves are presumably getting here is (1) bigger incentives from Cobb than they'd get from CoA, and possibly (2) cheaper land, so they can do more with less money. I highly doubt that Cobb County would be where they'd choose if their main goal was being closer to their "suburban fan base".
They may also see the "writing on the wall" that the Falcons will probably get their wish for a new taxpayer-funded stadium, which will pretty much sap the taxpayers' will to fund a second facility for the Braves anytime soon.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on November 11, 2013, 10:26:48 AM
Jags are not moving off 295.
ThEy CoUld if tHeY siGned TEBOW.
Quote from: FSBA on November 11, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/ (http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/)
The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase. The Braves saw the writing on the wall and went where the fans were. It is only a matter of time before the Jaguars decide a stadium somewhere off 295 is a necessity.
The Braves play 80 games a year at Turner Field, the Jags play 10, there is a big difference. From what I've heard, transportation around Turner Field leaves much to be desired.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 11, 2013, 10:50:39 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on November 11, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
Anyone have attendance numbers over the last 5-10 years?
It'll be near 75/285, about 20 minutes north of Downtown.
You can check the attendance here. The Braves have been at about the middle of the league for a number of years.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
And Turner Field has a big capacity so there are usually alot of empty seats. I assume this new park will have a bit for intimate setting.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 11, 2013, 10:50:39 AM
Not really, this is kind of the opposite of the trend. 30 years ago it was the big thing to build stadiums in the suburbs, but since the 90s it has been much more common to build them in the urban center.
I agree with the above. But even Turner Field was not really in a true urban setting.
Quote from: pierre on November 11, 2013, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 11, 2013, 10:50:39 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on November 11, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
Anyone have attendance numbers over the last 5-10 years?
It'll be near 75/285, about 20 minutes north of Downtown.
You can check the attendance here. The Braves have been at about the middle of the league for a number of years.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
And Turner Field has a big capacity so there are usually alot of empty seats. I assume this new park will have a bit for intimate setting.
42,000 seats for the new park.
wow...this is absolutely ridiculous....first the Falcons need a new stadium 20 years after the GA Dome opened, and now the Braves need a new one even though Turner Field dates to 1997.
All of the money in the Atlanta region is north of downtown and the stadium is located south of the city.....I thought the Braves were trying to address that situation when they moved their AAA franchise from Richmond, VA to Gwinnett County....perhaps the writing has been on the wall.
btw, any comparisons with the Jaguars and downtown Jax are not appropriate....apples and oranges
The failure to effectively redevelop the surrounding area is a factor in this, not to mention transit issues.
So much for having a Camden Yards style retro facility without understanding how successful historic ballparks actually functioned with their neighborhoods.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 11, 2013, 11:14:40 AM
Quote from: pierre on November 11, 2013, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 11, 2013, 10:50:39 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on November 11, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
Anyone have attendance numbers over the last 5-10 years?
It'll be near 75/285, about 20 minutes north of Downtown.
You can check the attendance here. The Braves have been at about the middle of the league for a number of years.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
And Turner Field has a big capacity so there are usually alot of empty seats. I assume this new park will have a bit for intimate setting.
42,000 seats for the new park.
With a 60 foot statue of Cobb County's most famous resident that outfielders must play around:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gAAJXoi4BCo/TmQz2x6ekSI/AAAAAAAABMU/RZTuBDSsIrg/s1600/477906-big_boss_man.jpg)
Quote from: carpnter on November 11, 2013, 11:04:25 AM
Quote from: FSBA on November 11, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/ (http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/)
The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase. The Braves saw the writing on the wall and went where the fans were. It is only a matter of time before the Jaguars decide a stadium somewhere off 295 is a necessity.
The Braves play 80 games a year at Turner Field, the Jags play 10, there is a big difference. From what I've heard, transportation around Turner Field leaves much to be desired.
the lack of a direct MARTA connection was somewhat of an issue....but it was less than a 1 mile walk from one of the stations and there was a shuttle.
Not sure how this could possibloy be better
Cobb County? Is Turner Field really outdated? I still remember the old Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. Somehow I doubt attendance will shoot up as a result. Atlanta is like Miami. For a variety of issues, they suck as sports towns. A ballpark in congested Cobb County isn't going to fix that problem.
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 11, 2013, 11:20:31 AM
wow...this is absolutely ridiculous....first the Falcons need a new stadium 20 years after the GA Dome opened, and now the Braves need a new one even though Turner Field dates to 1997.
Same thing I said. THIS is why the public has such harsh feelings towards professional sports franchises. This is an absolut waste of tax payers dollars, seriously.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 11, 2013, 11:56:24 AM
Cobb County? Is Turner Field really outdated? I still remember the old Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. Somehow I doubt attendance will shoot up as a result. Atlanta is like Miami. For a variety of issues, they suck as sports towns. A ballpark in congested Cobb County isn't going to fix that problem.
I agree Lake...but here's the logic Braves management is using...click on the map showing ticket sales for 2012...note that almost their entire core ticket holders are north of Turner Field
http://homeofthebraves.com/overview/#prettyPhoto
and as I said before, a map of Jags ticket holders would not look the same
Seems like the trend has been baseball stadiums being built in town and football ones being built in the suburbs recently.
Here's a view of the new location, as taken from an adjacent office building:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZNWacYll.jpg?1)
Also laughed at this "artist's rendering" of the new park's skyline view:
(http://i.imgur.com/u5T18MP.jpg)
They can use this as an opportunity to shed the offensive-to-some Native American "Braves" - they could become the Cobb County Crackers! ;)
Quote from: Charles Hunter on November 11, 2013, 02:47:12 PM
They can use this as an opportunity to shed the offensive-to-some Native American "Braves" - they could become the Cobb County Crackers! ;)
It wouldn't be a first... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Crackers
The traffic in that area is some of the worst in the United States. No public transportation, no one living near-by, and already congested roads; good luck with any game starting before 8PM. If this is a ploy to get a new stadium in downtown Atlanta I say call their bluff and let them move. If they try to stay at Turner Field they should jack the rent up on them.
Quote from: FSBA on November 11, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase.
Like others have mentioned, I disagree with that direct comparison (Jags and Braves venues). The only correlation between the two venues is that EverBank Field is to large for the Jacksonville market IMO (in large part because of the FL/GA game), and Turner Field is too large for that fickle bandwagon ATL fanbase.
You can say that 'DT stadium and a suburban fanbase' with damn near every organization. Why is EVERYTHING titled 'suburban' equals a bad thing? I get the whole urbanist movement thing aboard MJ, but that's just ridiculous. In most cases, if not every case (with sports teams) most of the big money comes from the suburbs anyway.
^ agreed with most with the exception of where $$$ comes from. I am not positive, but I believe a large bulk o professional sports teams $$$ comes from the corporations located DT (maybe not Jax so much) and not the suburban fan base. Regardless of price, where fans live, or how much money you have/need the Jets prove that most sports fields are not moving to the suburbs, they are still heart set on finding a spot on Manhattan to build their own stadium ... The most or 2nd most expensive land in the country.
As for the people on MJ and suburbs, I look at it as they want DT area to become more urban, so anything that smells of suburbanism is going in the wrong direction ... Not that they actually dislike suburban life or those whom dwell there. I am a suburban resident, and even when I lived in Springfield I didn't consider that urban. But that's just my $.02
Turner Field doesn't have the revenue generating amenities that pro sports demands now.
It used to be just to have fans there and TV revenue was enough.
Now its about boxes, suites, larger display boards (or more of them) to sell ads. Have more control over parking and concession revenue.
When Chicago Stadium (a private facility) was replaced with the United Center, yet another private facility, people were stunned after it opened. The price of beer went up 50%. Parking fees doubled. But the owners of the Blackhawks/Bulls got what they wanted...a modern facility with all of the revenue producing amenities. What did the city have to do? Provide cops for traffic and express buses to access transit. They kind of kept the politicians on the sideline to some degree.
When the Chicago Park District worked to replace Soldier Field, the bickering took many years to resolve because the Bears wanted more and more of the revenue from the new sources. Chicago balked and said it was outrageous to expect such a large revenue share for a facility that only hosts 8, maybe 9 home games a year. After threatening to have another NFL franchise locate in Chicago to justify the expense of the stadium, everyone settled down and the NFL put up $100M of their own money to bridge the gap. Unless you go there, you won't see the mega-levels of skyboxes on the lake side of the stadium. The TV cameras seem to avoid it. It's kind of obscene.
The Ricketts Family is having some of the same issues with Wrigley Field and the Cubs (They own both). It's old. Costs a lot to maintain. Has very few upgrade options. So they are cutting a deal to develop the surrounding properties (at least trying) with hotels, restaurants and other amenities and then building a skybridge over to the actual field to watch the game.
Even the new stadium in the Meadowlands in NJ hosts both the Jets and Giants. The revenue share demanded is so large, it can't justify more than one venue. The original Meadowlands didn't have the right mix of revenue generation available, so they replaced it.
Fans demand winning teams. Therefore teams demand better players. Which drive owners to spend more money on players. Which drives teams to extract more revenue where available.
Even Jerry Jones skirted league rules by scraping revenue off selling products called "Texas Stadium" because it didn't require he pay the NFL Licensing "tax".
Like the Dutch Tulip Bulb bubble, pro sports hasn't hit the limits of its markets yet.
You're right Jay with the money from corporations being an obvious major player, and I shouldn't have said 'big money'; Although most of the corporations are into the very premier sections of the stadium, like luxury suites. I was alluding more of the 'season ticket holder' part of an average fanbase. Many cities don't have a significant DT population to be season ticket holders, so that's when the 'suburban fanbase' kicks in.
Agreed I-10, I wonder his the ratio of season ticket holders compares between football and baseball. For instance I hv season tix to Jags but I always pay per game with the Suns ... Even though a seasons pass to all 30 or 40 home games is much cheaper than 10 EverBank games.
Seasin tickets comprise the majority (in some cases all) of ticket sales for football....in baseball, they usually make up less than 30%.
^^^Yup, because the majority of baseball fans are that causal 'walk up' crowd.
QuoteAtlanta Mayor Kasin Reed to Address City on 18-Month Negotiation with Braves
By Greg Bluestein and Katie Leslie
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed is about to face the news cameras this morning to try to explain how the Braves are bolting Atlanta and heading up Interstate 75. His news conference will be the first chance for reporters to hear his take on the behind-the-scenes negotiations that led the franchise to spurn Atlanta to Cobb.
He's already tried to temper his first reaction – a message that the city simply couldn't match Cobb's offer of public support – with a reminder that the relocation isn't a done deal yet. The question Reed must now answer is whether the city will fight back and, if so, how.
Plenty of questions remain. Perhaps the biggest involves how Cobb County intends to finance the county's share of the new stadium? Cobb Commission Chair Tim Lee told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution he would soon inform commissioners of the financing package, but wouldn't say what it will entail.
One possibility is a hike in the hotel/motel taxes, often a preferred route for politicians who would rather levy taxes on visitors than residents. Plus, doing that also wouldn't necessarily require a public referendum. But skeptics question whether the county's tourism base is deep enough to float a new stadium. And even if it is, it's no cakewalk. Ask Atlanta leaders who tied the partial public financing of the $1.2 billion Falcons stadium to higher hotel taxes.
Just how much Cobb will chip in is still an open question. Reed has said the county is ponying up $450 million but Lee wouldn't confirm that figure and the Braves pushed back on that assertion on Tuesday, saying in a statement the team will pay a "significant amount of the expense" but that the exact number has yet to be finalized.
The AJC will also be talking to community leaders and neighbors of Turner Field to start exploring ideas about what can be done with the stadium and the acres of parking lots that surround them if the Braves do bolt. Some say the franchise's departure could be a blessing in disguise for the hard-luck neighborhood, dreams of redevelopment have long gone unanswered.
And all eyes will soon turn to the Nov. 26 Cobb County Commission meeting, where Lee intends to ask commissioners to give final approval to whatever plan he and his allies develop. Voters are already demanding more details on how their tax dollars could be spent, and no one is quite sure what will become of Turner Field.
A sarcastic photo essay on the situation: http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/11/11/5092546/a-desperate-trip-into-the-ruins-of-turner-field
Quote from: I-10east on November 11, 2013, 11:13:54 PM
^^^Yup, because the majority of baseball fans are that causal 'walk up' crowd.
Uh, yea. They are. Not that many people have time to devote to 82 mostly weekday/weeknight home games, so most go when the opportunity strikes. What I like about baseball is the tickets are cheaper (though with a new stadium they won't be as cheap!), and usually going to a game can be a spur of the moment thing. Put on your team hat, wear your suit still if you want and you won't feel out of place, quick cab ride over, usually bars to go to right next to the stadium afterwards, etc etc. Definitely the "American pastime".
Braves sound greedy to me, but Atlanta was stupid - neither the Dome nor Turner are old stadiums (<20 years really). Neither team has made fans very happy in a very long time, and the Braves are always such a disappointment in the end. Someone on another thread made the point that now a streetcar can be laid down Capitol Ave and the neighborhood rebuilt if they choose to leave.
I think Atlanta should have chosen Capitol over Edgewood/Auburn easily for their FIRST streetcar - Braves have no public transit (not that a streetcar can handle stadium crowds), but an urban neighborhood with entertainment, dining, and high density residential centered around the stadium would have made sense. A lot more sense that forking up the money for an unnecessary football stadium that really should go to the burbs.
this from Atlantic Cities today
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2013/11/atlanta-braves-are-getting-new-stadium-and-yes-ridiculous/7547/
Correct, Turner field isn't that old, but it's really a "recycled" park. It was originally Centennial Olympic Stadium:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Olympic_Stadium
Man, what a waste. Bulldozing a beautiful, 17-year old urban ballpark so that Cobb County can pony up a half billion dollars in public subsidies for an unnecessary replacement. Throw in the Falcons debacle with the Dome, and you've really got to wonder when cities are going to stand up and say enough is enough to keeping up with the Jones on these stadiums. Jacksonville is going to have a really interesting decision on its hands when the Everbank lease expires and new billion dollar stadiums are the norm.
QuoteWith Braves Moving to Suburbs, Atlanta Plans To Demolish Turner Field
Forbes.com
With the enticement of $450 million in public subsidy for a new $672 million ballpark (or 67 percent of the total cost) in Cobb Co., and the Falcons receiving $200 million in subsidy, the City of Atlanta announced today that they plan on demolishing Turner Field when the Braves move out in 2017.
"We're going to have a master developer that is going to demolish the Ted and we're going to have one of the largest developments for middle-class people that the city has ever had," said Mayor Kasim Reed. Turner Field, or "The Ted" as it's lovingly called, was prepared in 1997 for the Braves at the conclusion of the 1996 Summer Olympics.
The move by the Brave appears baffling on one level and all about the bottom line on another. The Braves have complained that the nearest MARTA rapid-transit station is nearly a mile away from Turner Field, yet there is no MARTA service anywhere near the new location in Cobb Co. The other issue is that for years MLB has always preferred ballparks be built in the urban core, and with the new ballpark it moves 10 miles to a decidedly more suburban setting.
The main reason (beside the obvious infusion of public funding) is that the median income in Cobb Co. is higher than in downtown Atlanta. According to reports, Census data shows the team is moving to a much more prosperous area, with a median household income of about $61,000 and a poverty level of 8.6 percent, compared to $23,000 and nearly 40 percent for the neighborhood surrounding Turner Field.
While Major League Baseball is a decidedly private industry with revenues topping $7.5 billion last year, when it comes to building ballparks, the league and its owners always push for a large portion of the cost be carried by the taxpayers. After Atlanta was roundly criticized for putting $200 million into the new $1.2 billion stadium being built for the Atlanta Falcons next to the Georgia Dome, talks broke down between the City of Atlanta and the Braves. The Braves had been seeking $150 million in renovations to Turner Field.
As reported yesterday, traffic in downtown Atlanta was citied as a chief concern by the Braves.
"We also recognized that what is insurmountable is we can't control traffic, which is the No.1 reason why our fans don't come to more games," said Braves executive Mike Plant. "That over the last decade has grown immensely. ... We are under-served by about 5,000 parking spaces. All of those things contribute to some real challenges for us that we just, looking forward, didn't believe could be overcome."
The Braves plan to sell the naming rights for the new ballpark which will offset their costs even further. When throwing in that the overwhelming majority of fans will now park at the new ballpark, it's conceivable that total cost to the Braves will be almost entirely offset with new revenue streams.
Quote from: coredumped on November 12, 2013, 02:16:35 PM
Correct, Turner field isn't that old, but it's really a "recycled" park. It was originally Centennial Olympic Stadium:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Olympic_Stadium
but it was designed from the beginning by both the Olympic Host Committee and the Braves....1/2 of the stadium was built to be temporary, was removed following the games, and replaced as permanent outfield seating.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 12, 2013, 02:28:49 PM
Man, what a waste. Bulldozing a beautiful, 17-year old urban ballpark so that Cobb County can pony up a half billion dollars in public subsidies for an unnecessary replacement. Throw in the Falcons debacle with the Dome, and you've really got to wonder when cities are going to stand up and say enough is enough to keeping up with the Jones on these stadiums. Jacksonville is going to have a really interesting decision on its hands when the Everbank lease expires and new billion dollar stadiums are the norm.
I don't know that they will remain the norm 15 years from now, though; and it's certainly possible to upgrade an older stadium periodically, as with New Orleans and Kansas City.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on November 12, 2013, 02:41:53 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on November 12, 2013, 02:28:49 PM
Man, what a waste. Bulldozing a beautiful, 17-year old urban ballpark so that Cobb County can pony up a half billion dollars in public subsidies for an unnecessary replacement. Throw in the Falcons debacle with the Dome, and you've really got to wonder when cities are going to stand up and say enough is enough to keeping up with the Jones on these stadiums. Jacksonville is going to have a really interesting decision on its hands when the Everbank lease expires and new billion dollar stadiums are the norm.
I don't know that they will remain the norm 15 years from now, though; and it's certainly possible to upgrade an older stadium periodically, as with New Orleans and Kansas City.
Lambeau too :)
Quote from: KenFSU on November 12, 2013, 02:28:49 PM
Man, what a waste. Bulldozing a beautiful, 17-year old urban ballpark so that Cobb County can pony up a half billion dollars in public subsidies for an unnecessary replacement.
I totally agree. What makes this ATL situation unique is that they are tearing down a nice venue, in contrast to other sports organizations that fled (or will flee) into the suburbs because of antiquated stadiums in the city, like the 49ers, Redskins etc.
Quote from: FSBA on November 11, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/ (http://www.peachpundit.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-plan-move-to-cobb-county-by-2017/)
The Braves stadium situation is like the Jaguars to an extent. A downtown stadium and a suburban fanbase. The Braves saw the writing on the wall and went where the fans were. It is only a matter of time before the Jaguars decide a stadium somewhere off 295 is a necessity.
Fan of Sprawl?
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on November 11, 2013, 10:26:48 AM
Turner Field is a very nice stadium. Jags are not moving off 295.
Its a great park, Ive been to several games. I live 1 minute from where they are putting the new stadium...Im not feeling this.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 11, 2013, 11:56:24 AM
Cobb County? Is Turner Field really outdated? I still remember the old Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. Somehow I doubt attendance will shoot up as a result. Atlanta is like Miami. For a variety of issues, they suck as sports towns. A ballpark in congested Cobb County isn't going to fix that problem.
Lots of people are irritated about the news. No one was even thinking about the Braves needing a new field at all. Ive walked from Georgia State Station to Turner Field maybe 14-16 times the only times it sucks was during the colder baseball months of April and September. Ive also used the Shuttle from Underground to Turner its like a 3 minute ride. The traffic between 285\75 & 285\85 is parking lot 5 days a week.
I still can't believe that they're actually gonna go through with this. I'm stunned. What an awful decision. :(
(http://i.imgur.com/Wop54mD.jpg)
^^^LOL, maybe they will eventually transition out that tomahawk, and replace it with a fancy mailbox or something more resembling the suburbs.
Between this, the Falcons' Stadium, the handling of the Streetcar, the failure of TIA/TSPLOST, and other wreckless shenanigans in the city (and THE BURBS, my God I can't STAND most of metro Atlanta), I am just glad to be out of that mess (Atlanta).
Braves' ownership is very very selfish plain and simple. And furthermore this is proof that Conservatives, Tea Partiers, Republicans, etcetc are the most hypocritical voting blocks ever. Vehemently opposed to new taxes, except if it's for a worthless new billion dollar sports stadium. LoL I really can't even take the hypocrisy.
And not enough public transit options, lack of convenience to highways, not enough parking, etc etc?? WTF Moving to suburban Cobb County is going to address these issues?
And the stadium has served the team well but does not adequately serve the fan experience? Turner Field was designed and developed by the same people who renovated Fenway and Camden Yards. It is constantly touted as one of the best baseball stadiums in America. Having been to quite a few myself, I feel like I can attest.
So the Braves are going to leave a deserted stadium and a sea of asphalt behind in a former working class neighborhood that once had good bones. The best (and only) chance that neighborhood had of becoming something once again was with the Braves stadium there. Now it will continue to be a wasteland with no more visitation. I think the City dropped the ball on that one - for the same price it's going to cost the City to build a new Falcons stadium, they could have just built a mixed-use "town" around Turner Field. I don't know why the hell the city stuck with the Falcons - I think football stadiums actually are better in the suburbs, but there's no denying that baseball stadiums are perfect for urban cities, helping to boost and revitalize neighborhoods in nearly every city they are located in.
Damn shame on both the Braves and the City. What's new?
Wouldn't it have been just as easy to extend Marta to that stadium? I remember when I lived there I never drove into town for events. I took Marta into town.
Quote from: simms3 on November 12, 2013, 11:41:00 PM
I think football stadiums actually are better in the suburbs, but there's no denying that baseball stadiums are perfect for urban cities, helping to boost and revitalize neighborhoods in nearly every city they are located in.
+100
If possible, I prefer all pro sports venues to be in an urban environment, but especially baseball stadiums. You can get away with having a football stadium in the suburbs, but suburban MLB stadiums are very few and far between; Maybe that exception is the home of the Anaheim Angels, even though technically it's within the city limits.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on November 12, 2013, 11:45:02 PM
Wouldn't it have been just as easy to extend Marta to that stadium? I remember when I lived there I never drove into town for events. I took Marta into town.
That's the setup, yes (via free shuttle from 5 Points station). But extending MARTA rail directly to the stadium is not feasible. A streetcar down Capitol Ave through DT Atlanta and up through Midtown would have been perrrfect (connecting MARTA rail stops along the way). The current streetcar under construction is going to be a waste in my opinion, but once again politics got in the way there (and politics/racial sensitivity has gotten in the way of actually redeveloping the area around where the new streetcar is going...in the name of keeping a rundown low-density area "historic").
MARTA connects directly to the Dome (for Falcons games and concerts) at Vine City if I recall correctly. Ironically, Atlanta's football stadium may be the least car dependent of all football stadiums in America. But I would rather see a sea of parking filled with tailgaters than arrive to a football game by rail. I think the reverse can be true for baseball - sure there's "tailgating" at the Braves games now (moreso than Falcons imo because Turner has more surface parking), but there's only tailgating at Braves games because there are no bars or restaurants around the stadium. Adding streetcar and building up an urban mixed-use environment around Turner was always discussed by planners in the city, but they aren't necessarily listened to, have no political clout, and no financial backers.
So the 'would-be' improvements at Turner Field would have costed the city 150 million in 'infrastructure improvements'; That consists of new lighting and seats. Seats really? What in the hell do they have at Turner Field now, old Fenway Park splinter bleachers from 1912? That sounds like an extreme exaggeration, the stadium isn't that old.
Yet they chose to relocate to Cobb County where the Braves organization will have to pay 200 million, with the county paying an additional 450 million. What a debacle...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7hBarU1bNA
Some Braves sites are wondering if this was political posturing gone terribly wrong for both sides. It would make sense considering the oddly specific price tag but haven't seen the first concept drawing for a new stadium
http://www.talkingchop.com/2013/11/11/5091418/right-now-we-have-more-questions-than-answers-about-the-new-stadium (http://www.talkingchop.com/2013/11/11/5091418/right-now-we-have-more-questions-than-answers-about-the-new-stadium)
Quote from: FSBA on November 13, 2013, 04:49:57 AM
Some Braves sites are wondering if this was political posturing gone terribly wrong for both sides. It would make sense considering the oddly specific price tag but haven't seen the first concept drawing for a new stadium
http://www.talkingchop.com/2013/11/11/5091418/right-now-we-have-more-questions-than-answers-about-the-new-stadium (http://www.talkingchop.com/2013/11/11/5091418/right-now-we-have-more-questions-than-answers-about-the-new-stadium)
Gonna do a copy/paste on this article, just because I think it brings up some really interesting points, up to and including a potential Braves logo and/or name change. It's going to be really interesting to see where the dust settles on all of this.
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Right Now We Have More Questions Than Answers About The New Stadium
By Franklin J. Rabon @fjrabon on Nov 11 2013, 1:44p 35
Kevin C. Cox
Almost all of the important details of the Braves' move to outside the perimeter remain a mystery at this point.
Tweet (23) Share Share 35 Comments
Less than a week after Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed was re-elected, it has been announced that the Atlanta Braves will be moving outside the I-285 perimeter that traditionally defines the city. While the new location sits in an unincorporated area (meaning it technically isn't part of any city), the stadium will have an Atlanta mailing address, though it won't actually be a part of the City of Atlanta.
Based on early reactions, people's take on the move is almost entirely dependent on where they live. Braves fans to the Northwest of the city are thrilled, fans inside the perimeter and southward are angry, and fans to the Northeast seem happy overall, but wondering what transportation will look like.
However, at this point we know few details. We know the location, the Northwest corner of the I-285 I-75 junction, and a bizarrely specific cost, $672 million. We know the stadium will be owned by the Cobb-Marietta Coliseum and Exhibit Hall Authority and not the Braves, though the Braves will be a "significant investor" in the project.
The source of the $672 million is the first, and biggest mystery. From the Atlanta Braves' site, it touts the projects as "[being] a true public-private partnership" however, calls to the Cobb County Commissioner's office indicated that no public money has been approved. Some outlets have stated that roughly $200 million will be provided by the Braves and $400-500 million by "investors arranged by Cobb County." What exactly this means is anybody's guess. For what it is worth Kasim Reed has just stated that the money Cobb County is providing is "public" money, so this issue is even more confused.
Further mystery is in the details of how the transportation situation will work itself out. One of the major reasons cited by the Braves for the move is the difficulty of traffic at Turner Field. The I-75 I-85 connector can indeed be pretty bad during a game day, but as those who live in the area can attest, the I-75 I-285 junction is not substantially better, and it has never had to handle 41,000 Braves fans (rumored capacity for the new stadium). While it is debatable as to whether the transportation situation would be improved in that area as is, it's unclear what, if any plans, for linking public transportation to the area exist. Traditionally Cobb County has been very opposed to spending on public transportation and again calls to the Commissioner's Office indicate that there are "no current plans for public money to fund transportation." Given the tone of animosity Mayor Reed put off in his statement, it also seems unlikely that Metro Atlanta would "play ball" (oh God, I've become Mark, I'm so sorry you guys) in helping develop MARTA out that way either. Again, we're left with more questions than answers when it comes to traffic and transportation.
While many of the Braves' ticket buyers live in the Northern suburbs, many of them work inside the city, so it's not even totally clear that their time to the game would be shorter on average. Especially since a drive from the city would now be in the same direction as rush hour traffic, whereas in the past, a drive to Turner Field from north of the city was mostly a reverse commute, until you hit game traffic.
We also have no idea what any of this is going to look like. In a world where stadium mock ups are often made years before funding is secured and a move is guaranteed, apparently this move was settled on without even a single drawing of the potential look of the complex or stadium having been made. It seems rather bizarre to me that we can know that the cost of the complex will be exactly $672 million dollars without the Braves even having solicited bids from architectural firms, which very obviously hasn't happened yet. As for now, the closest we have to a rendering of the new stadium comes from the Braves' site for the project (which is incredibly vague on nearly every pertinent detail), and it looks like this:
10803631195_b0502c0a1d_medium
At this point it is not 100% clear that this is set in stone happening. It's awfully quick, and it sounds like from Mayor Reed's statement that he believes this was a leverage ploy to get public funds for a new stadium that went too far. You definitely get a "well, if they're really just going to give you $400-500 million, have at it boys" feel reading his statement. Further, actual Cobb County Government officials have said absolutely nothing about this. The Braves have stated that Cobb County will be doing most of the "heavy lifting" on the project, but for a county about to gird its collective loins for nearly a half billion dollars, they sure aren't saying very much.
Finally, there's even some speculation that the team may not be the Atlanta Braves after the move, and no they wouldn't be changing to the Marietta Braves as some have jokingly stated on twitter, but rather changing the team's name, mascot and logo, from the AJC's political reporters: "Could it be a chance also to rebrand the Braves' image? The scuttlebutt among some politicos is that the team may also look to change their logo amid the move."
As a midtown resident, and someone who generally believes that new stadiums are a poor use of public funds, my first reaction was to dislike the move, but without knowing virtually any of the important details it's difficult to have much of an objective opinion on any of this.
UPDATE
After speaking with some City of Atlanta politicians who wish to remain anonymous, many remain skeptical that the "private funds arranged by Cobb County" will hold up and that this deal with either turn out to be publicly funded by the residents of Cobb County or that it will completely fall through and the Braves will awkwardly remain at Turner Field. While admitting this is all speculation on his part, one official put it this way "you don't just raise half a billion dollars in private investment without anyone hearing about it."
UPDATE
Justin Farmer of WSB is reporting that Mayor Reed is saying this is "far from a done deal" which corresponds with what I was told earlier today by lower ranking politicians.
Quote from: simms3 on November 12, 2013, 11:41:00 PM
Between this, the Falcons' Stadium, the handling of the Streetcar, the failure of TIA/TSPLOST, and other wreckless shenanigans in the city (and THE BURBS, my God I can't STAND most of metro Atlanta), I am just glad to be out of that mess (Atlanta).
so says the guy who had almost nothing bad to say about Atlanta on this message board about two years ago
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Braves' ownership is very very selfish plain and simple. And furthermore this is proof that Conservatives, Tea Partiers, Republicans, etcetc are the most hypocritical voting blocks ever. Vehemently opposed to new taxes, except if it's for a worthless new billion dollar sports stadium. LoL I really can't even take the hypocrisy.
all sports team owners are greedy and selfish. This includes the 49ers not being able to work out a deal with San Francisco and moving an hour south. It also includes Shad Khan who has floated the idea of the city giving him the Shipyards property for free, so he can bring mixed-use entertainment options near his stadium. And guess who would of keep the profits on that? The Braves just did the same thing. The big problem was the City wouldn't let them have 100% of the revenue from the parking lots or any redevelopment that occurred on them. The new land in Cobb County will.
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And not enough public transit options, lack of convenience to highways, not enough parking, etc etc?? WTF Moving to suburban Cobb County is going to address these issues?
They don't care about transit. They can build 20,000 parking spaces along with bars and such for fans to hang out at before/after games. And again, they get all the revenue.
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So the Braves are going to leave a deserted stadium and a sea of asphalt behind in a former working class neighborhood that once had good bones. The best (and only) chance that neighborhood had of becoming something once again was with the Braves stadium there. Now it will continue to be a wasteland with no more visitation.
maybe not. There are some who argue that revitalization was held back because of the empty sea of parking that was there more than 250 days a year.
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I think the City dropped the ball on that one - for the same price it's going to cost the City to build a new Falcons stadium, they could have just built a mixed-use "town" around Turner Field. I don't know why the hell the city stuck with the Falcons - I think football stadiums actually are better in the suburbs, but there's no denying that baseball stadiums are perfect for urban cities, helping to boost and revitalize neighborhoods in nearly every city they are located in.
while I'm not happy about their new stadium either, the Falcons situation is entirely different. The new one, just like the Georgia Dome, are also used as part of the space of the Georgia World Congress Center. Just like Indianapolis does with Lucas Oil Field.
Letter from Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed:
QuoteAs a young boy, I loved watching the Atlanta Braves. I can recall countless historic moments over the course of their 47-year history in the city. It was in Atlanta that the Braves won an unprecedented 14 division championships from 1991 to 2005. It was in Atlanta that Hall of Famer Hank Aaron hit his record-breaking home run in 1974. It was in Atlanta that the Braves won a World Series championship in 1995. There is no doubt that the Braves belong to Atlanta.
For 18 months, my administration has been involved in good-faith discussions to keep the Braves in downtown Atlanta as their lease at Turner Field nears expiration. On Monday, the Atlanta Braves organization announced its intention to relocate to Cobb County -- in a new stadium. Our partners in Cobb County will provide $450 million in public funding to build the new $672 million stadium, we're told. We are simply unwilling to match that with taxpayer dollars.
On my inauguration into office in January 2010, I made a promise to strengthen our city's finances and tackle our looming $922 million infrastructure backlog. Over the last four years, we have balanced four consecutive budgets without property tax increases, built our cash reserves to more than $125 million and improved our bond ratings across the spectrum in every fund.
Over the next four years, I am committed to making $200 million to $250 million in infrastructure investments in our neighborhoods.
Professional sports teams and stadiums drive economic development and investment in their communities, but taxpayer dollars need to be spent responsibly. My decision not to invest $150 million to $250 million for renovations to Turner Field or interfere with a transaction when the Atlanta Braves are moving 12 miles away means that Atlanta is going to be stronger financially and not choked by debt. This decision also means critical investments in our city's infrastructure -- on bridges, green spaces, roads and traffic lights.
For many years, the Falcons and the Braves have been fixtures in our city's downtown. There will be a new stadium for the Atlanta Falcons -- but there are meaningful differences between our efforts to keep the Falcons in the city and the Braves' decision to relocate to Cobb County.
The agreement to keep the Falcons involved an existing revenue stream from a hotel-motel tax paid largely by the 42 million guests who visit our city every year -- lessening the burden to taxpayers.
The hotel-motel tax, which would be extended only to fund and maintain the Falcons stadium, also generates significant direct revenue to the city's general fund. In the case of the Braves, no identifiable revenue stream exists that would allow us to pay for a commitment of $450 million or even $250 million responsibly.
The Falcons stadium is expected to cost $1 billion, and that kind of transaction is tough. But we negotiated a favorable agreement for the city with 80% private funding and 20% public funding for the new facility.
So we wish the Braves well knowing the city of Atlanta has much to be proud of.
Over the last four years, business relocations have included the Coca-Cola Co.'s decision to move 2,000 jobs back into the city, Porsche Cars North America moving its North American headquarters into the city, and Pulte Homes relocating its corporate headquarters to Atlanta from Michigan. The city of Atlanta is vibrant and thriving, and we're just getting started.
When the Braves leave the city of Atlanta in 2017, Turner Field will be demolished. Over the next three years, we will be working with our prospective partners to bring residential and business development that is worthy of our city and strengthens our downtown. The Braves will remain in the Atlanta metropolitan region, and I look forward to going to the opening day game in 2017.
To no surprise, Cobb County approved the plan for the new stadium. BTW, just looking on social media, many local ATLiens like the Braves moving to Cobb County, as they think the current Turner Field location is in a really bad neighborhood. So sad to see a colossal waste of a nice looking ballpark.
www.cbsatlanta.com/story/24075064/fulton-county-commissioner
Ted Turner wants to change the old Ballpark into greenspace.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ted-turner-wants-namesake-ballpark-175503701--mlb.html