Metro Jacksonville

This is a transportation subject that needs to be revisited here at Metro-Jacksonville. One wonders why this has not come to some form of public attention long before now. With the United Rail Coalition, The National Association of Railroad Passengers, Amtrak, JTA and City hall, all local, yet not a chirp-in-a-carload from this gallery of "experts". Well, "geepers Mr. Wilson, even Gomer could figure this one out..." damn the luck, Gomer retired back to Mayberry in North Carolina, leaving us with Gilligan and the Skipper to plan our future with St. Johns river commuter boats.


Gainesville Rail Tales:

Gainesville, is a strange animal. In 1890 one could travel by train to Jacksonville, hence to Green Cove Springs. At Green Cove Springs, a transfer was made from the Jacksonville, Tampa and Key West Railroad train, to the South-Western Railway of Florida. The SW was a narrow gauge line which followed the hill country from Green Cove Springs, to Sharron, Goldhead State Park, Putnam Hall and Melrose. At Melrose, another transfer would have to be made to Lake Santa Fe steamboat. At the west end of the lake was a canal and outlet to the upper Santa Fe River. IF the water was deep enough the boat could travel to Keno, where a transfer to a stage could be made for Gainesville. Sometime later, the Seaboard Air Line Railroad's purchased it's mainline down from Baldwin, to Waldo, Gainesville and Cedar Key. They rapidly expanded South from Waldo, leaving Gainesville on an increasingly abused branchline. The Atlantic Coast Line Railroad, bought into the game with the purchase of the Florida Southern, another twisting narrow gauge line, and the Jacksonville Southwestern, a local lumber road. Stringing these together to form the competition to the Seaboard until the merger that became CSX spelled the end of Gainesville and mainline railroading. Today Gainesville is served by a network of former secondary mainlines, reached over a portion of the old ACL from Alachua, which in turn is reached via a new branchline from Starke.

(http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/cdm3.jpg)
The DEL MONTE a similar train in California, 1970


FLIGHT OF THE SILVER GATOR?

QuoteWhy Not A Train To Gainesville?

In a day and age when urban rail is becoming vogue, and Bus Rapid Transit or BRT is the new battle cry of the highway side, is it time to revist the short distance train? Take a look at the famous "Del Monte", a one time daily train from San Francisco to Monterey and Pacific Grove. The train was well patronized and ran for 100 years, until a quirk in the Amtrak laws left all trains under 150 route miles in a commuter category and unavailable for rescue. Trains operated by commuter agencys kept right on rolling through Amtrak day back in 1971, all longer distance trains that made the cut switched over to Amtrak on that same date. Yet everything in between fell through the cracks. Today, the stage is set to obtain Amtrak-Federal-State and Local grants to revive many of these runs. The people in Monterey, California are already in a campaign to restore the "Del Monte".

Here in Jacksonville, we have the CSX mainline West from the Union Terminal to Baldwin, and hence Southward to Starke. At Starke, a well maintained branchline swings off for Alachua and Gainesville. The right of way into downtown Gainesville is intact, the tracks stop about one mile from the Station. With the "Gator Bowl" at Jacksonville Municipal Stadium, with Shands Hospital in downtown, and with a new Shands teaching campus planned for the Northside, this could become a vibrant and busy little 60+ mile train route. We need to revisit this route, revive some of our history and tie downtown Jacksonville to downtown Gainesville... Let's just not call it "The Seminole".

(http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df10202003c.jpg)
Even though we are being "studied", we are NOT moving forward... This photo of Amtrak's Private business car on a National Corridor study train, should wake this City the hell up! But then who am I to rant?

So it is a plum ripe for picking. Gainesville and Jacksonville are natural partners for a DMU type service, twice daily. Amazing as it might seem nobody in Tallahassee or in Jacksonville seems to be thinking this way. We are going to build a temple to bus transit, a bus freeway system, for an all bus transit system, complimented by Gilligans water ferry and "We would like to do rail... SOMEDAY!" (JTA DIRECTOR 2007) Our City needs to heed the advice of a couple of wise old sages and "BE BIG".

Ocklawaha ;D

just curious, why the all-caps?

A Jax-Gainesville link makes sense, considering UF is the closest this city will ever get to having a Tier 1 university to benefit from.  Plus there's already a relationship with Shands.  However, unless a pot of gold is found at the end of the rainbow, I would spend money establishing a local system first.

As for JTA and BRT, we have to find a way to poision the funding mechanism for BRT, both at a local and federal level.  This may mean putting a rail solution on the backburner and focusing on efforts to prove that the BRT plan (if not changed as JTA mentioned a month ago) is an outright boondoggle (which is not difficult) and that Jax would be better off without it.

Gate just the old hippie of the group who happens to be 1/2 blind... Consider my all-caps as a silent protest (yeah, one more protest) over fine print that I can't see! I also used to put my screen name in all bold purple 40 pt text under every post... well until they took away my crayons. And these guys claim to be modern liberal thinkers! HA! hee hee

Ocklawaha

True Lake, our immediate fight is with the local BRT. However, the Gainesville route would or should fall under AMTRAK and the USDOT-FDOT funding prizes that are being put into the new Rail acts. In other words, from a world apart from JTA or the  FTA, we suddenly have the opportunity to start-up new short distance state sponsored service. The states will not start this unless there is a LOUD noise supporting it. As Gainesville falls at the end of a branchline today, it is not likely to make anyones list in spite of being a natural partner city of Jacksonville. Thus I am suggesting that REGIONAL RAIL, IE: Gainesville-Jax, Tallahassee-Jax, Pensacola-Tallahassee-Jax, Jax-Tampa, Jax-Melbourne and Jax-Orlando, should get into our sights. JTA is our official transportation agency, and City Hall is the political power point locally, yet all we hear is ZZZZZZZ. If I can kick the hornets nest, I'm game for a go at promoting our first network of State sponsored AMTRAK trains.
(See Amtrak Law, Section 402-B and C ALSO: Title II: Amtrak Reform and Operational Improvements 427-28)  

Ocklawaha

When I went to grad school at UF, I can guarantee you that I would have taken a train (with a good route) from UF to Jacksonville at least once a week, round trip. I can also guarantee you that there are thousands of students who would consider doing the same - especially if the ticket were in the $20 range.

However, there would be some obvious problems with such a route.
- The direct Gainesville to Waldo route has long since been demolished. Like you said, you'd have to route the train through Alachua, which adds totally unnecessary time and distance to the trip.
- The suburbs of Jax and Gville are quite close. I've actually made the total commute in 80 minutes. You must have an optimal route that is DIRECT, and FAST - otherwise people in the Southside and Westside will just prefer to keep driving.
- You have a real dilema with track selection once you get closer to Jax. If you go up through Orange Park, you'll have to waste time at lower speeds, and use portions of right-of-way that will remain single-tracked. If you go up through Baldwin, you bypass huge population zones (and potential stops) in Orange Park and the Westside.

Personally, my commute was 73 miles door-to-door - which took between 80-120 minutes depending on traffic. With a Gainesville - Alachua - Downtown Jax route I would have probably been looking at a 85-95 mile train ride, plus a 5-15mile backtrack depending on where the stops are. And someone would have to pick me up in Jax.

So really, a train would have to be very fast or very cheap to be competitive.

Quote from: Joe on April 10, 2008, 10:02:26 AM
So really, a train would have to be very fast or very cheap to be competitive.

Joe: You are very right. I commuted to Gainesville for two years from Jax. Although I was worn out with the commute, time was of the essence and a slow train would never have done.

Now, I would pay any amount of money to train it to Tallahassee, one of the most boring and long drives in the world. Either you tough it out with the truckers on I-10 or you go the slo route on US 90. That would be a good route for the Seminole.

I always thought the route that the high speed rail chose for Titusville to Disney to Tampa had merit.

I think the train would be a marvelous idea.  a jax-gainesville-orlando service even.. a jax-daytona-orlando-tampa run...... it'd make getting around florida a helluva lot easier!

You can get to Orlando with Amtrak if we had good transit to Amtrak.

I think it's worth a year of testing... JAX-GAINESVILLE via the current route isn't really bad at all. I have ridden the train down to Waldo many times from Jax, and frankly it's 79 mile per hour track for most of the way. A suburban stop in West Side, another in Baldwin, Starke, Alachua and Gainesville would be a real pleasure. The Gainesville-Starke Segment is good for about 45 MPH, but it is short. Since Gainesville-Alachua-High Springs have more or less grown together, doing the jog into Alachua would serve a bigger market without really holding things up. A short train such as the "DEL MONTE" (the California photos above) or something like the Colorado Railcar DMU train, with a lounge/snack counter would probably run full most of the time. Certainly game days, special events and student functions would fill it.

As a planner, I'd suggest 2 trains each way a day for starters, with a 3rd added at the first sign of acceptance. The trains would work on a Morning and Evening schedule, and later on a Morning-Mid Day-Evening schedule:

2 trains each way daily

Trains make all station stops, including flag stops at suburban/rural stations

consist: Locomotive, Coach, Coach-Lounge (light food items)
or
DMU with coach, and business class, plus a lounge (light food items) section

Your observations about speed are well taken. The train would not have to be high-speed or even faster then the typical auto trip, nor would it have to be more direct. Bottom line, it would have to be competitive - similar - less stressful - more comfort - more workspace. A survey of travelers done by Greyhound/Trailways in the mid 1980's showed that passengers via AIR-BUS and RAIL were not nearly as concerned about the route or the speed as they were departing and arriving at a precise time. So even if our train was slightly slower then your speeding car, as long as it advertised arrival in Jacksonville at 6:03 PM and it rolled to a stop EVERY DAY at 6:03 PM, the battle is 1/2 won.


(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pccx800111.jpg)
First Coast RR, already has a "passenger department!"

There is another "hidden" benefit to introducing passenger trains to the Starke - Alacuha segment. That segment contines on to Dunnellon and Crystal River. There is a former line from Dunnellon to Inverness and Brooksville, which is a rail trail. From Brooksville to Tampa the track remains a straight shot. If the rail trail gap were relaid, and the Tampa segment rebuilt, this could be the re-start of the old WEST COAST ROUTE from Jacksonville to Tampa and the Bay area. Further? The company that operates this line from Alachua South, is the same company that runs the St. Marys-Yulee-Fernandina Beach FIRST COAST RAILROAD. Not only are they a shortline, meaning they are usually easy to work with, this company happens to be very much PRO-PASSENGER and they in fact own "ORANGE PARK STATION".

The same information and at least half of the route are also good for the Lake City-Live Oak-Tallahassee run.
If these trains are added and become a popular and accepted part of our regional fabric, future expansion of schedules, stations and trackage, could then address other possible routings, such as Starke-Waldo-Gainesville. (it would be nice to pass through Waldo without the traffic ticket! LOL) 

Ocklawaha[/u

Can you show a diagram of the runs you are talking about?

Sure thing Jeffery, (I don't want to SHOCK anyone) but as soon as I'm back from church!

Ocklawaha

I'd ride the train to Gainesville after all I rode the bus to and from when I was a student at UF. The ride home was a little gross on those old buses when I came home for the holidays. Any chance of extending the train to Austin, TX?  Or, is there a train already to Jacksonville from Austin?

Gatorback, since Amtrak was started on a shoe-string, and effectively wiped out 2/3 of all remaining passenger trains on the day it started, we no longer have ANY real connections to the west. The original Amtrak system map included the FLORIDIAN, a train cursed to follow the CSX's horrible line from Jacksonville-Waycross-Valdosta-Thomasville-Dothan-Montgomery-Birmingham-Nashville-Louisville-Chicago. The Floridian route was largely unsignaled (45 MPH), poorly maintained (Waycross-Montgomery) and competed with coal trains and Freight head on (Montgomery-Louisville) which promised to keep the track about as rough as possible. Sadly the train followed the route of one-time streamliner "THE SOUTH WIND" ... but the old line isn't what is used to be.

There was a connection at Chicago for the TEXAS CHIEF, which followed the old Santa Fe mainline to KC-Newton-Wichita-Guthrie-OKC-Denton-Ft.Worth-Austin-San Antonio or Ft. Worth-Arlington-Dallas-Houston. The chief didn't have the Floridian's track and schedule troubles, and stayed SOLD OUT through most of it's life. Under Republican pressue to "Make a profit", Amtrak was ordered under President Jimmy Carter to eliminate 4 major trains:

The Floridian, Chicago-Florida
The Champion, New York-Florida
The Texas Chief, Chicago-Texas
The North Coast Hiawatha, Chicago-Seattle (via Southern Montana)

It was a stupid move from Washington, a sad day for transportation that was hardly noticed by the media and a death sentence to a couple of the routes for all of time. DUMB! Not a peep of protest from Florida!

The loss of the Sunset Limited, Orlando-Jacksonville-Baldwin-Lake City-Tallahassee-Pensacola-Mobile-New Orleans-Houston-San Antonio-El Paso-Tuscon-Los Angeles, betwen Orlando-Jacksonville-Lake City-Tallahassee-Pensacola-Mobile and New Orleans, was a death blow to our "AUSTIN-JACKSONVILLE" connection.

WHAT I PROPOSE:

I think we need a joint state, grass roots effort to put through trains back on this route. In Florida the line is the route of the former "GULF WIND" which is a fine name that carrys some historical weight. I would like to see a joint state effort at a GULF WIND CORRIDOR.

JACKSONVILLE
BALDWIN
LAKE CITY
MADISON
MONTICELLO
TALLAHASSEE
QUINCY
CHATTAHOOCHEE
MARIANNA
CHIPLEY
DE FUNIAK SPRINGS
CRESTVIEW
PENSACOLA
MOBILE
GULFPORT/BILOXI
BAY ST LOUIS
NEW ORLEANS

Something like a double or triple daily service on all or part of this line. I would NOT call for a through train to Los Angeles, as that leaves the EAST end captive to the needs of the LOS ANGELES schedule. If we created a mini-corridor, with 3 daily trains in each direction, they COULD offer through cars for Los Angeles, or Dallas, Albuquerque etc... This is the magic of trains, the ability to break them up for different destinations. I also think this is the key to the GULF WIND ROUTE.

AMTRAK complained that they won't restart it due to low ridership. Gee how many people are riding from Marianna to Chipley at 3 AM? How about Baldwin to Lake City at 1 AM? THIS IS WHY, we need our own corridor with our own schedules. 2 fast daylight trains and a complimentary night train that ties to the SUNSET for Los Angeles.

THAT'S MY RANT for TODAY!

Ocklawaha

OK.  It was the Sunset Limited I thought I could still take.  Wasn't that the train that ran off the tracks and into a swamp after a barge or tugboat hit some pylons of the bridge near New Orleans?

Isn't there a Tropicana?  It runs refers of OJ to the north?

(http://www.carrtracks.com/spsr72.jpg)
The bad old days on the SUNSET LIMITED...

You are right of course on both counts. The Sunset Limited was the flagship train of the former SOUTHERN PACIFIC and ran from New Orleans to Los Angeles for 100 years. Under Amtrak, it's schedule has gone to hell in a handbasket and though it still carries the honor of NUMBER 1 and 2 in the whole AMTRAK system it is a shadow of it's onetime royal class. Southern Pacific tried in vain to kill the train before Amtrak and thus they would not have to run it in the new "order of things". It went from daily sleepers, lounges, dining cars and an array of cool experience cars, to a 2 or 3 times a week, coach and vending machine step-child. Dirty cars, broken AC (in the desert southwest), no heat (in the mountains) no hot food, schedule keeping from hell became the order of the day. Somehow the train held on until 1971 when the government made a show at rescue. Fact is, they did little to fix the Sunset and it hobbled on for years under the Amtrak name. Finally with some effort from Lawton Chiles, the train got the attention it had long needed. New cars, new menus, new locomotives, bedrooms, suites, roomettes, lounges, pubs, some of them nicer then the original streamlined equipment had been back in the 1930's. Florida formed a party of states and bowing to pressure to restore the "GULF WIND" between Jacksonville and New Orleans, our state got Amtrak to extend the re-equiped Sunset to Jacksonville, then on to Miami, and finally to Orlando.

Jacksonville was the logical eastern Terminal, as long as we maintain a fleet of North-South, trains.

The worst accident in railroad memory, and one of the worst in the entire 3,000 year history of railroads happened that foggy night that a tug boat first officer, got off course, went down a channel that wasn't even open, and smacked the bridge, minutes before the Sunset was due. No effort was made to warn the railroad, in fact they didn't even know where they were or what they had done until the swamp exploded with flying Amtrak cars. Horrible.

Now, long after the bad-old-days of "train killing passenger departments" and "Amtrak's bumbling infancy and accident era" we seem to have entered a new era of proper equipment, better schedules and FINALLY some railroads that WANT TO PLAY TRAINS! (Gee what a novel thought!) Union Pacific (owner of the former Southern Pacific) and Amtrak have finally reached some understanding. Bottom line is UP will run trains on-time and Amtrak won't sue the railroad. Something similar seems at hand with CSX as well... FINALLY.

This presents a great opportunity for us in Jacksonville (or Austin) to get moving with a grass roots citizens for passenger rail movement. By focus on the New Orleans-Jacksonville segment, we could push for emerging corridor status. A through car or two off the Sunset bound to or from Jacksonville would round out the consist of any little "GULF WIND" that Florida/Jacksonville pushed.

I would recommend a daily flagship DAYTIME train:

GULF WIND
Jacksonville-New Orleans (daily-daylight train)

1 Locomotive
1 baggage car
2 two long distance coaches
1 dining car (full service)
1 Lounge car (reserved seats as 1St class)

GULF BREEZE
Jacksonville-New Orleans (daily-night train)
1 locomotive
1 baggage car
2 two long distance coaches
1 dining car
1 sleeping car
1 lounge car
(possible through coach and sleeper to/from Sunset Limited)

GULF COAST SPECIAL
Jacksonville-Pensacola (daily train)

1 locomotive
1 baggage-coach combine car
2 coaches
1 buffet lounge

I'll toss in a possbie schedule concept and some maps for Jeffery in a few hours.

Ocklawaha

Looks just like the track between Gainesville and Alachua right down to the line side industry and housing. If you have wondered what Ocklawaha's Gainesville "Growling Gator" train would look like, here tis!

"The Growling Gator" A regional passenger train concept.


As of today, I have raised the interest of:

THE CITY OF STARKE
THE JTA
THE GAINESVILLE RTS

I also had a very promising converstation with the Secretary of Transporation several months ago, and a very interesting call today... She is from... S T A R K E !

Still to go after:

COJ
City of Gainesville
City of Alachua
City of Baldwin
City of Brooker
City of Lawtey

Various county governments and Chambers...  Thus far 100% POSITIVE acceptance and offers to assist.

I'm making this public because Gainesville and Starke want to meet big sister...

It's time to get this drive rolling beyond my laptop!

Want to volunteer to meet and assist?

Proposed route:

Jacksonville (Jacksonville Terminal)
Marietta
Baldwin
Lawtey
Starke
Brooker
Alachua
Gainesville (6th and University)

Proposed equipment

pair of RDC-1 cars with small lounge section.

OCKLAWAHA

OCK I tried to plan a train trip out west, I thought it would be fun. Well planning it was a HUGE pain in the rearend, I could not find a straight trip (so you lose your cabin on some parts of the ride) and it was going to take eight freaking days to get there. I WANT to ride the train, but goodness, I can't take eight days of that! America has the worst set up ever and it is truly sad. The only train trip I have seen worth taking thus far is the coastlight, not that is a nice trip.

Quote from: uptowngirl on July 29, 2010, 11:35:21 PM
OCK I tried to plan a train trip out west, I thought it would be fun. Well planning it was a HUGE pain in the rearend, I could not find a straight trip (so you lose your cabin on some parts of the ride) and it was going to take eight freaking days to get there. I WANT to ride the train, but goodness, I can't take eight days of that! America has the worst set up ever and it is truly sad. The only train trip I have seen worth taking thus far is the coastlight, not that is a nice trip.

Back in 2005, I took the Sunset Limited to Los Angeles.  The trip took three and a half days and I enjoyed seeing the nation from my coach seat and from the observation car.  There were hassles, like the train running behind schedule.  I however, saved money on my trip (vs. flying into LAX) and have nothing but good things to say about this unique experience.  I was comped for dinner as our train approached Los Angeles and received a voucher for a future trip. 
I prefer taking the train because I do not like the way the airlines treat us today.  I also prefer taking the train because it beats having to drive.  There is a niche for rail travel and I wish that more people saw that is has its place in our society.

And, YES, I would take the train to Gainesville.  If that option was available to me before, I would have gladly gotten aboard, too!

As a rule, modern American's do not travel, which is to sojourn or to pass through the land. The typical citizen today rushes to a concrete box north of the city, goes through a near strip search, boards a flying Greyhound Bus, and 7 hours later, steps off ready to collapse. This feat is called "a trip", but it is not TRAVEL.

While I can see that 8 days is ridiculous, there is NO REASON why we shouldn't be able to cross the country in 3 days-4 nights (or the other way around) by train.

I have ridden the COAST STARLIGHT, both before and after Amtrak. Before Amtrak it was the Coast Daylight to San Francisco, then a change to Oakland for a trip on to Seattle on the Shasta Daylight. These were beautiful trains, the Daylight also had nocturnal sisters a huge ad for which is still visible under a freeway near Mission Tower as the train leaves Los Angeles.  "Ride The Lark and The Owl to the Bay Area nightly."  Over on the Santa Fe they ran a shuttle service between Oakland and Bakersfield, with a dozen buses that met trainside in Bakersfield for various "Southland LA" destinations. If you want to see photos of a few truly beautiful trains check out the San Francisco Chief, The Coast Daylight, and the queen of the rails, The California Zephyr.

Trains on the east coast are pretty fast and in spite of Florida's lack of support we still manage to have 3 each way daily to the Northeast (one runs through Jax without stopping). But the Wizards of Washington have so screwed Amtrak since it's inception that it is hobbled by a lack of routes, equipment, crews and budget. A favored whipping boy for any Conservative tax slasher. However the Liberals have done it no favors either with the worst damage being delivered by President Jimmy Carter, who with a swipe of the pen eliminated The Washington-St. Louis NATIONAL LIMITED, The New York-Florida CHAMPION, The Chicago - Florida FLORIDIAN, The Chicago - Houston TEXAS CHIEF, The Chicago - Seattle NORTH COAST HIAWATHA. In every case except the Champion, the cuts would mean entire 1,000+ mile routes were eliminated along with whole states.

Amtrak itself fell victim to an early case of what I call "END POINT THINKING," that is more or less an airline style of planning that has little or no consideration for anything in the middle. In fact Congress set this up in 1971 by naming city pairs that "MUST" be connected. This might be great on a 737, but it sucks on a train when you blow right through many intermediate towns. Hell's bells, what is a train for if it isn't an intimate journey through the land?

Right now we have NO service to Chicago, or New Orleans, or Atlanta, a situation which even if it were pogo sticks would long ago have been fixed. They call Amtrak a "national system" but when the holes in your system are big enough to swallow Wyoming, or South Dakota and 99% of Tennessee, then something is dreadfully wrong.

My suggestion would be buy yourself a good book, take a pocket full of spending money, and park out at our Amshack on the Northwest side of town some early morning. Buy a round trip ticket "COACH" to Winter Park, Florida, Returning the same day on the latest train. The trip is just long enough to relax and/or eat a fine meal and when you detrain, your right in the middle of one of the most upscale shopping experiences in the south.
Even if the budget only allows for window shopping, hey they have good ice cream shoppes. Late in the afternoon you'll catch the northbound back home, again in time for an evening meal.


A word about the meals. Meals are served in the Dining Car, and you will be seated by your steward, it is polite and acceptable to allow a stranger to share your table, if you can. Just tell the steward if he/she doesn't ask. Full dinners are ordered by writing your requests on the card they will hand you. Costs are about the same as a better chain restaurant. A light meal can be had at any time in the lounge car, (my favorite place on the train - look for me!) sandwiches, pastrys, and all the drinks you can afford. IN EITHER CASE, as the Florida trains run quite full, make damn sure the CONDUCTOR knows you want to eat ASAP when you board. This way in case they have already made a "First call for breakfast-lunch-dinner" you will not be left out. If you seek the lounge car simply ask how soon you can head back there. Some crews want you to stay in your seat until they have collected your ticket, others will allow you to go there immediately making note of where to find you. ASK!


Lastly the trip to Richmond, Washington, Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, New York and Boston is just overnight, if you've never been rocked to sleep this is your big chance. Airline customers who don't think they "have the time" are discovering this as a way to arrive refreshed after a good night on the train and that it beats the rat races at the airports.

After your trip, or anyone else who takes me up on this, write back with your experiences. I'm so sure you'll fall in love that I fully expect you'll join me in the fight to expand our rail presence.


OCKLAWAHA

Ock ---
You forgot to mention that unlike the sardine can-like Greyhound bus in he sky, Amtrak allows passengers to use their electronics (laptop computers, cell phones, mp.3 players, etc.) for the entire trip.  Electronics don't interfere with the operation of the train! 
I am going to have to try out the trip to Winter Park.  I already love Amtrak, but this would be icing on the cake!

I am on board for the Winter Park trip. I took the train a LOT in California while there and LOVED it (the lounge is one of my fav places too!). I would much prefer the train over flying, but the service man, we gotta fix the service.

A train that ran to Gainesville would make my life much easier. I am always enlisting people to give me rides since 8 years after leaving U of F I still get my car serviced at Continental Imports over there. I guess loyalty dies hard.

Also, count me in for a Winter Park trip. I love Winter Park and have always wanted to take that trip.

Quote from: uptowngirl on July 30, 2010, 08:47:54 AM
I am on board for the Winter Park trip. I took the train a LOT in California while there and LOVED it (the lounge is one of my fav places too!). I would much prefer the train over flying, but the service man, we gotta fix the service.

It is perplexing how we have a higher tolerance for B.S. from the airlines than we do with other modes of transportation.  Why do the airlines continue to come up with new ways to screw over their passengers?  Because the passengers, like willing masochists, put up with it.  I understand that airlines do best with long distance routes, but passenger rail is a better options for long distances that that would normally be 12 hours or less by car.  Like Ock said, we are more interested in making the trip and less interested in traveling...

No I wouldn't.

Quote from: heights unknown on July 30, 2010, 01:26:26 PM
No I wouldn't.

I agree - what's in Gainesville for anyone who doesn't follow the Gators?

Quote from: Cliffs_Daughter on July 30, 2010, 01:42:25 PM

Quote from: heights unknown on July 30, 2010, 01:26:26 PM
No I wouldn't.

I agree - what's in Gainesville for anyone who doesn't follow the Gators?

Some of the coolest museum's, parks, VA Hospital, research library's, bike trails, and oop's a LIVE DOWNTOWN with a swinging night life.


OCKLAWAHA

Ock.............I thought that a "Rail Commission" had been established in Tallahassee? I remember something that was being setup regarding rail as passenger/freight? Thought they were taking over from FDOT since they were trying to set that up as a separate agency? What you have posted makes tooooooo much sense big fella! The powers that be will send a hit squad after you if your not carefull! LOL! With the money being spent on HSR down Ratville way, we would have had the chance for some real interstate rail from Tallahassee to Orlando to Miami and then to Jacksonville but noooooooo! Idiots! Instead we get from nowhere to nowhere but its gonna be HSR.............what a crock of bull end product! But wait .....at some point in the future its gonna go to Miami! Still don't have either engineering, ROW or the funds to do it, but Ratville will have a stop and its a bargain at only $1.2 Billion Dollars! I am kinda tired of getting screwed over by nincompoops who just expect me to pay for it, never mind use it! I digress................good idea's, now how do we force feed this down the bovines throats?