Some ideas the CRA consultants appear to be recommending for downtown.
Quote• The Laura Street corridor, from Monroe to the Landing. Pitched possibilities include incentives for renovation projects, improved lighting, a property condition report for the Snyder Memorial Church and the use of art installations.
• The East Bay Street corridor, which includes the Shipyards, former courthouse and former City Hall annex. Ideas include a "road diet" by replacing vehicle lanes with sidewalks, bike lanes and other pedestrian-friendly components; demolishing the courthouse and former City Hall annex; and making the Shipyards a "world-class city park."
• Riverside Avenue and Forest Street corridor. Possibilities include addressing parking issues and converting outside travel lanes to make two tree-line boulevards. Doing so would reduce pedestrian crossing distance.
• The Downtown East-West circulator. Ideas are to have a reliable and frequent trolley system that extends from the Riverside Arts Market to the Jacksonville Landing, Bay Street and Metro Park areas. That could be done with a partnership with Jacksonville Transportation Authority and a one-year pilot program, with a possibility of federal grants to purchase environmentally friendly vehicles.
Also pitched were methods of trying to find better uses for waterfront property, starting with the area around Friendship Park, and revamping and updating the signage around Downtown to help visitors.
A public forum will be held on November 4th. You can read more about it here:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540877
Not sure if Jax could pull this off but Oklahoma City is the midst of a downtown redevelopment called Project 180. They are rebuilding every street and sidewalk in the urban core. All one-way streets are being converted to two-way, 4 lanes streets are being reduced to 2 lanes, nearly every street will have on street parking, and nearly every street will get dedicated bike lanes (and those that don't get sharrows).
http://www.okc180.com/
If Lakeland could pull this off in the late 1990s and early 2000s, including getting FDOT to reroute a highway around downtown, than Jax could. It's just something that has to be a priority with the community willing to fund.
I can tell you I don't like the idea of tearing anything down. If we as a country have learned anything since 1960, it is that speculative tear-down has NEVER sped up redevelopment, and in a lot of cases destroyed building stock that would have been re-used by now.
I would like to see better signage for public parking. The feeling I get when I'm downtown is I can never tell if a parking garage is for employees with permits ony or for the general public.
At the same time, remove the meters and replace them with 2 hr parking limits. I think this would easily, cheaply, and immediatley solve a big perceived problem with downtown: "theres no parking, i hate paying for parking".
Done.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2013, 11:48:13 AM
I can tell you I don't like the idea of tearing anything down. If we as a country have learned anything since 1960, it is that speculative tear-down has NEVER sped up redevelopment, and in a lot of cases destroyed building stock that would have been re-used by now.
I definitely agree with you here. Downtown Jax struggles today, largely because of the amount of affordable usable building stock being destroyed over the years for revitalization dreams that never materialized. Many of the art galleries, breweries, bars, etc. on King Street in Riverside today are examples of businesses that once desired downtown locations.
Why does the Laura Street corridor need new lighting? That was just done. Are they talking about building lighting?
Quote[. . .] and making the Shipyards a "world-class city park."
:-\ I would rather see the Shipyards sit empty and see the string of historic parks along Hogan's Creek be made into a world-class city park than to see the Shipyards turned into this and the Hogan's Creek parks continue to be neglected. Obviously "all of the above" would be nice, but in Jacksonville, you
never get all of the above. Improved park space should take priority over
more park space, IMO.
I agree Scrub. I would prefer that the Hogan Creek system either be restored to its natural state or rebuild the promenade - but dilapidation is not a good look. I walked this whole area last week and there is so much potential. Confederate Park is a hidden gem that is located out in the open.
Quote from: Scrub Palmetto on October 24, 2013, 01:25:08 PM
Improved park space should take priority over more park space, IMO.
+1,000
I am in agreement with the lets fix what we got idea. The parks on Hogans Creek and in Springfield could be that world class park. Not to mention that place were all the "undesirables" gather ::)
I have no problem with development of the ship yards and the idea of reworking East Bay to make it more pedestrian and bicycle friendly. But Damn if I am for tearing ANYTHING down until we know that there is a replacement going up as soon as the site is cleared. If someone is allowed to take down the old Court House and City Hall, 10 years from now we will be talking about what a nice park all that property would make between Bay Street and the river. ???
QuoteDowntown Jax struggles today, largely because of the amount of affordable usable building stock being destroyed over the years for revitalization dreams that never materialized. Many of the art galleries, breweries, bars, etc. on King Street in Riverside today are examples of businesses that once desired downtown locations.
Wha wha? The reason King Street has come back is because of the population density has embraced the corridor and the offerings there. Forget the buildings as the "reason" people came out and revived the area.
Gotta have people coming out and experiencing the offerings. There are not enough people downtown to support the offerings.
If you don't think the existing building stock had much to do with King Street's revitilzation... then you simply have never looked at the price of trying to move into one of the many raw and dilapated spaces downtown.
Before 2009, what offerings did king street have?? ......the answer is Kickbacks (which was 30% as busy as it is today), park place, and Walker's which was newly opened and always empty.
The first two venues that started the revival were Rogue and Loft, which were accidents, but they were a result of the city streetscape project, the renovation of king street, and chance. I did an interview with Scott McAlister back when he opened Rogue/Loft and those were the reasons he cited. Originally he was just going to renovate the buildings and lease them, but the tenants bailed and he was forced to fill the space himself. I think he's pleased with how things turned out. I also interviewed Ben Davis and his decision was purely driven by the building stock. He would have rather been in DT, but that wasn't possible.
I don't have time to go through the old articles, but maybe someone else can. King Street had no scene in 2008. It really wasn't until PPC (post pub crawl) that the strip really took off.
Furthermore, CoRK and Bold City are certainly not in the area because of population density. Critical elements there are built around existing building stock/availability at certain price point. Also, good chunk of people involved there at one time wanted to be downtown.
In regards to the downtown CRA, I attended a JTA TOD workshop yesterday. I was not aware of the significant number of properties owned by JTA within walking distance of the Skyway. One of the article suggestions about a rubber wheeled east/west trolley will be pretty insignificant in terms of DT revitalization. We could work with JTA and modifying an existing bus route and achieve the same thing without an extra cash investment involving routes that penetrate where people actually live.
However, acknowledging and placing a high priority on TOD adjacent to existing Skyway stations is something that should be considered. From what I saw last night, JTA owns a significant chunk of the Southbank. If their properties were developed, the Southbank would look and feel completely different from the vertical suburban office park setting that exists today. The same goes for the West Bay Street strip between the Prime Osborn and Central Station. With the financing gap that exist for infill in DT, identifying and targeting properties owned by public agencies could be a way to generate some P3 (public private partnership) momentum.
In the same light, the adaptive reuse of structurally sound public buildings like the old city hall on Bay Street should be considered as opposed to demolition as a first choice.
Going back a few comments ... wasn't there a move to have a private group take over beautification of the parks around Hogan's creek, i.e. gateway to Springfield.
Its an idea that I thought was very well placed but haven't heard anything more about it. ?????
I haven't heard anything about a private group taking over the parks around Hogans Creek.
I guess I misunderstood. I thought about for sometime that it would be nice to set up a conservatory for the parks there similar to that which was done for Central Park in NY. It would be a vehicle for raising money to improve, maintain and manage the chain of parks. Essentially, it would cede responsibility to an involved constituency rather than the bureaucratic morass that is our City. In other words, get out of the way govt.
I grew up on stories from my father of playing chess in Hemming after school and playing in the parks. It seems like such a shame to leave something which could be such a huge asset to downtown and the community in general in shambles.
Quote from: icarus on October 25, 2013, 12:19:58 PM
I guess I misunderstood. I thought about for sometime that it would be nice to set up a conservatory for the parks there similar to that which was done for Central Park in NY. It would be a vehicle for raising money to improve, maintain and manage the chain of parks. Essentially, it would cede responsibility to an involved constituency rather than the bureaucratic morass that is our City. In other words, get out of the way govt.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Nothing substantial will happen long term without a concerted lobbying and/or fundraising effort. To do so, there needs to be a non-profit with paid staff like the Central Park Conservancy or paid staff within the city dedicated to planning, fundraising, and implementing improvements, which is how Tallahasse was able to create the Capital Cascades Greenway...which is almost complete and looks fantastic already.
Despite the Army Corp., the State of Florida and the City of Jacksonville acknowledging major pollution issues on Hogan's Creek, no efforts have been made to remediate the creek. We have this beautiful gem of open park land that is not only under utilized but not utilized at all. Over the years, gates and fences, whether ornate or not, have been installed to deter the homeless/vagrants from being in the park.
A park conservancy doesn't have to be limited to just Hogan's Creek but could be expanded to include the immediate areas, i.e. McCoy's Creek, South and North riverwalks.
I was scouting a development site the other day and happened to examine the property ownership in the Brooklyn area. I wonder how many people realize the amount of land between I-95 and the St. Johns River is owned by COJ and DOT. Again, this is a lot of vacant and underutilized land. It would be nice to engage the various groups to push for a park in the area for kayak/canoe launches and maybe a space for outdoor cafe licensed to an operator (proceeds to benefit the park).
With the success of Arts Market, I wonder if such a conservancy could work to orchestrate programming in the parks, i.e. education, arts, festivals, etc. ala http://www.cityparksfoundation.org/
You want development and changes downtown ... come up with a way to engage the City and get more people downtown and on the river. Parking lots and Taj Mahal courthouses aren't going to do it.
I'll also add that I'm not sure making The Shipyards a "world class city park" would even be all that effective as a redevelopment strategy, or the best use of redevelopment funds. There is plenty of public space along the riverfront, from RAM to the Shipyards, to Metro Park, to the Southbank Riverwalk, to Friendship Fountain. Little known fact; Metro Park is always open, is fairly large and scenic, but is extremely underutilzed. What makes anyone think the same wouldn't happen to the Shipyards if it was turned into a park? Also, at 23 acres, there is plenty of room to make improvements to Metro Park and attempt to make it "world class". Millenium Park is only 24 acres and contains a much larger ampitheater.
A more effective strategy would be to try to activate the Shipyards through private development AND maintain some public access. A mixed use development with breweries, restaurants, housing, museums, etc, with small pocket parks, public piers, a marina, and Riverwalk would do far more for creating a vibrant downtown than more park space...and I'm saying this as someone who absolutely loves the outdoors and parks. Improvements to Metro Park and the Hogan's Creek Greenway should come far before even considering turning the Shipyards into park space.
Quote from: CityLife on October 25, 2013, 01:42:13 PM
I'll also add that I'm not sure making The Shipyards a "world class city park" would even be all that effective as a redevelopment strategy, or the best use of redevelopment funds.
Yeah, I know there's this big deal about doing something grand with the shipyards but there are some extra challenges primarily because of the surrounding context or "outer square." Urban interactive parks that spillover into surrounding land uses tend work better in centralized locations where it's possible for the "outer square" to be just as engaging and interactive as the park itself. With the jail and Maxwell House adjacent, plus the location being several blocks east of the Northbank's actual center with limited accessibility from the north, you're essentially looking at a Metropolitan Park II.
Project for Public Spaces has a ton of information on characteristics of great public spaces:
http://www.pps.org/reference/reference-categories/parks-articles/
Is anyone here going to the public forum? I'd go if I weren't 1,100 miles away. I hope the thoughts brought up here are expressed there.
Have these consultants engaged with the public at all until now, or did they come up with these ideas completely without public input?
I echo CityLife and Lakelander's sentiments on the Shipyards.
We as taxpayers still pay interest on the Shipyards bonds. It's time to make that land more useful and return it to the tax rolls.
Quote from: Scrub Palmetto on October 25, 2013, 02:03:49 PM
Is anyone here going to the public forum? I'd go if I weren't 1,100 miles away. I hope the thoughts brought up here are expressed there.
Have these consultants engaged with the public at all until now, or did they come up with these ideas completely without public input?
I do plan to attend the public workshop. I believe there has been public engagement from those who can attend DIA workshop meetings but that's a small crowd at best. The public workshops should generate a lot more feedback.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 24, 2013, 10:47:32 AM
Some ideas the CRA consultants appear to be recommending for downtown.
Quote
• The East Bay Street corridor, which includes the Shipyards, and making the Shipyards a "world-class city park."
.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540877
And part of the plan should be the USS Adams. An IBM smarter cities challenge recommendation. What a joke if it's not.
They are ready to go. All Aboard.
Four hours out from the JEA taxpayer subsidized housing collapse sale. As opposed to The Palms Fish Camp taxpayer subsidized bonus sale.
Both are connected to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative.
Does anybody care?
Still going to try and squeeze in a RICO paddle in our new highly restricted DIA zone.
Let's get to work! Just not in Jacksonville.
Quote from: Scrub Palmetto on October 25, 2013, 02:03:49 PM
Is anyone here going to the public forum? I'd go if I weren't 1,100 miles away. I hope the thoughts brought up here are expressed there.
Have these consultants engaged with the public at all until now, or did they come up with these ideas completely without public input?
I'm going.
Just got back from the Public Option.
They opened the bid at $500,000.
Then they said that in the paper it would start at $470,000. No takers. Closed the auction. Then announced that they would meet privately with everyone.
J- Just
E- Everybody
A- Applaud
DIA
A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
it will Embrace Us
Paul Astleford CEO of Visit Jacksonville on the job 10 months and Kelley Borree director of the largest park system in the country on the Sunday morning talk shows.
Ben- JCCI, we need to kayak Downtown before 2025.
Anybody want to make a donation to 2009-442? It screams TOURISM!
Our CRA/DIA in the USA is happening right now.
I'm All In.
Yeah, that stupid 'dolly trolley' PCT ought to REALLY cause a boom in TOD. I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. 'Looking for an environmentally friendly vehicle spills the beans and indicates they still don't have a clue what they are doing.
Here are two meetings you should try to attend if you want a say in what will happen with downtown between now and 2025.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-3BdRw6n/0/XL/Forum%20Flyer-XL.jpg)
Just to be clear, in the article in the original post it said the first meeting was at City Hall on 11/4 at 5PM. I am correct in assuming that time and location has been changed to 6:00 PM at the Hyatt?
^That appears to be the case