QuoteTaxpayers spent millions of dollars to build the Northbank Riverwalk to proivde the public access to the St. Johns River.
That access was for everyone, not just the privileged few.
But during the last couple of weeks, a few No Fishing signs have been popping up along the riverwalk, citing a city ordinance that was passed in 2007.
full article: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/406107/ron-littlepage/2013-10-15/keep-northbank-riverwalk-open-fishing
DIA Board meeting today at 5pm city hall, 1st floor. Make some Noise. Anyone going? Anybody care?
Planning a RICO kayak and fishing paddle in our new highly restricted DIA/CRA in the USA zone.
Littlepage nails it. And of coarse none of this before Waterways. We are so LOST.
The total crushing of the Public Trust.
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Lake, The problem with the fishermen on the Riverwalk and why they are being posted is that they are leaving unholy messes where they fish; dead fish, beer cans, human feces, puddles of urine, fast food wrappers and uneaten food. Selective enforcement was tried by JSO to just target those who were creating the messes, but there were too many and the citations were being ignored as well.
This posting is a last desperate measure to control the problem. The fishermen have ruined it for themselves.
How are things handled at Stockton and Memorial Parks?
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 16, 2013, 01:47:14 PM
Lake, The problem with the fishermen on the Riverwalk and why they are being posted is that they are leaving unholy messes where they fish; dead fish, beer cans, human feces, puddles of urine, fast food wrappers and uneaten food. Selective enforcement was tried by JSO to just target those who were creating the messes, but there were too many and the citations were being ignored as well.
This posting is a last desperate measure to control the problem. The fishermen have ruined it for themselves.
Yep. The southbank riverwalk down by the school board is nasty from the fishermen and shrimpers.
In another thread, I sarcastically suggested that this was just another Hemming Plaza "situation," but this doesn't surprise me. I regularly jog along the Riverwalk, and while I've never spotted poop, I have seen trash—which, admittedly, could be left by anyone—and fish viscera.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 16, 2013, 02:10:44 PM
How are things handled at Stockton and Memorial Parks?
We have similar issues at Memorial park.
Loose fishing line is also an issue.
I've cleaned up parts of Memorial Park and the Riverwalk northbank from fish bait and guts, hooks, line, beer and food wrappings. It is pretty disgusting. Suggest that more people who demand to keep these places open for fishing, get out and help with weekly clean-up. Mondays are usually the best time to help clean because of the weekend crowd.
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 16, 2013, 01:47:14 PM
Lake, The problem with the fishermen on the Riverwalk and why they are being posted is that they are leaving unholy messes where they fish; dead fish, beer cans, human feces, puddles of urine, fast food wrappers and uneaten food. Selective enforcement was tried by JSO to just target those who were creating the messes, but there were too many and the citations were being ignored as well.
This posting is a last desperate measure to control the problem. The fishermen have ruined it for themselves.
For a second there I thought you were describing the homeless of Hemming...
I have a question. If these signs are posted, who in the city is going to monitor illegal use and enforce the ordinance? If we do have the personnel to do so, might it not be a good idea to have those folks monitor those fishing and require that they clean up after themselves instead of banning all fishing?
Good question. There has to be a better answer than simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
From going to the Urban Core CPAC, JSO regularly patrols the Northbank Riverwalk, and, now that the signs are posted, will enforce No Fishing. This has long been an issue with at least some who attend the UC-CPAC. Sings were apparently posted several months ago, but mysteriously went missing. The new signs are supposed to be mounted more securely.
To Lake's last point - it is easier to enforce a total ban, than it is to get people to clean up after themselves. Perhaps the police could try to ensure tidiness by enforcing anti-littering laws (up to $250 fine). But then there would be the issue of selective enforcement - why are you fining me for my fish guts, when you didn't get that guy in a business suit who dropped a gum wrapper?
I wonder what patrolling regularly means? Once a day, twice, several times? It would seem that if they were there that often folks wouldn't be leaving human waste along with the rest if the fish mess and litter. I bet they put the signs up and they are gone again very soon. Seems like the issue needs some sort of answer beyond signage, unless the police walk there several times a day I still don't see the deterrent to those who regularly go there. Keep in mind, I am not excusing those who treat public areas like open sewers but I can't believe that all of the people who go there are thoughtless. Maybe some signs that say, pick up your trash along with some attractive containers nearby for waste? Also signs saying the litter laws will be enforced. If the police can enforce the no fishing they can certainly enforce the litter law and I don't think they would just go after folks dropping fish guts. Any law should be enforced justly. I don't know the precise area, but is there a public restroom nearby by any chance? Weird that Littlepage didn't notice all of these problems. Wonder if he just ignored them for the story or what?
People in Jax aren't anymore different than people in coastal and riverfront cities across the country. Thus, there should be alternative answers to outright banning all around us. I'm pretty sure people fish at the Battery and Waterfront Park in Charleston. Maybe they are handling the situation in a different manner. In any event, outright banning goes against the concept of having an active riverfront and vibrant downtown environment.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on October 16, 2013, 07:10:38 PM
From going to the Urban Core CPAC, JSO regularly patrols the Northbank Riverwalk, and, now that the signs are posted, will enforce No Fishing. This has long been an issue with at least some who attend the UC-CPAC. Sings were apparently posted several months ago, but mysteriously went missing. The new signs are supposed to be mounted more securely.
To Lake's last point - it is easier to enforce a total ban, than it is to get people to clean up after themselves. Perhaps the police could try to ensure tidiness by enforcing anti-littering laws (up to $250 fine). But then there would be the issue of selective enforcement - why are you fining me for my fish guts, when you didn't get that guy in a business suit who dropped a gum wrapper?
Again, why wasn't any of this before Waterways? Councilman Redman is the chair of Waterways. Is there a picture of the stolen No Fishing signs? Are these the same No Fishing signs that appeared from the Hyatt to Berkman? Or is there now a variation?
There is still an open contest for the new Waterway signage that has nothing to do with Fishing and was also never before Waterways and the first MJ'er that posts the pic or tells all of us where it is I will treat you to a meal at Chopstick Charley's. We need an App for that hole in the wall treasure. Here is a clue. It's next to the river and it's in our new highly restricted DIA zone.
Urban Core CPAC go to Waterways. Why not? If you snooze you lose (NRW)LOL. At yesterday's 10/16/13 DIA Board meeting before a presentation on Homelessness and Vagrancy Issues by Dane Baird and after the presentation had DIA chairman Oliver Barakat saying "very thought provoking". I had an opportunity to speak with a JSO officer about the fishing issue.
As I recall this came before Waterways a few years ago and the issue had to do with uniform enforcement. Please anyone jump in here and correct me on this but any law enforcement officer can now write a ticket. The first thing to start with is do you have a fishing license? It use to be that only FWC could write a ticket for a fishing violation. But now anyone can. The officer was unaware of this option. At a Waterways meeting as I recall COJ Waterways Coordinator Jim Suber said that the reason that it is not widely known or enforced is because of the numerous fishing regulations on fish species. I get that.
I was at RAM and I may have some pics but just south of RAM were families fishing. Not just one but lined up. The baby strollers, the kids standing on the bulkheads. Young and Old. The dad was just swapping out bait and the kids were having a blast. There was a family on a blanket in the open space yards away from the people that wanted to be engaged with our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone.
Still planning a RICO kayak paddle and fishing trip under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways. Sounds like the No Fishing zone has been expanded. All positive.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Hire more Downtown Ambassadors and assign a couple to the riverwalk to patrol. We need more of the ambassadors period. People don't know but they do a lot of work in downtown cleaning up messes, reporting panhandling, and other things that make downtown a better place to be.
Has our homophobic do-nothing Mayor Brown fixed the broken up dock in front of the auditorium yet? It's been taped off and unusable since before last year's Georgia/Florida game. One full year. No fix. Mayor Brown presents...
Littlepage has a problem with bikers and skateboarders who "come zooming by you" but not fishermen with their potentially hazardous poles, their bait & tackle, the trash they leave, and the additional bird poop likely created by all the fish parts and "snacks" for the wonderful pidgeons and gulls. Call me a snob, but I know lots of people will agree that the fishermen who use "public land" aren't the most desirable people to have around if you're trying to build up a haven for tourists and downtown dwellers. I can't recall a CBD area anywhere that I've seen where there are such fishermen actually fishing on the same block as suits and tourists - none of the great waterfront cities I can think of feature such a group, so I would think Jax would be fine joining them in banning it. If having a bunch of gruff men drinking Budweiser and cleaning SJR fish on the public sidewalk, leaving parts for the birds are your idea of adding to downtown "vibrancy", then we have two different ideas of downtown vibrancy.
Just throwing it out there that this isn't their only option :) As has already been pointed out, they can continue going to Stockton and Memorial parks among others, Ortega Bridge and Sister's Creek bridge among others, they can always spring for a little river/flatboat - hey there's an idea!, Trout River Bridge, etc etc
We have two different ideas of vibrancy. I believe cities develop organically and it's best to find solutions that don't result in specific groups of people getting kicked out. Maybe the answer is to identify a certain concentrated location within the Northbank where these activities can occur (ex. a Shipyards pier, etc.).
^^^Well they aren't helpless like the homeless and they have lots of perhaps even better options, so while I am against "kicking out the homeless" as many have tried and proposed, the fishermen are a different story. They add to Jacksonville culture as a sort of "poor fishing village" type of city, but if Jacksonville's trying to move on to be a bold, clean, positive-image city in a way it can, then fueling the old image by allowing this downtown is contradictory. Perhaps the shipyards piers, yes, since there is nothing over there and nobody to disturb. In front of the Hyatt, Friendship Fountain, between the Acosta and Fuller Warren, etc NO.
Coming from a family of "poor fishing village" people, I view it as authentic and real to this region. A truly vibrant place finds ways where all of its residents can enjoy the setting. I believe there's room for the rich, middle class and poor to enjoy our amenities and assets within a compact setting like DT.
There is nothing wrong with people fishing. It becomes a problem though when they trash the place. No one wan't to step over a rotting dead fish, shring cakes, and see trash scattered all over.
No doubt. However, it seems like an enforcement issue to a degree. It's obviously a popular activity since the problems are large enough to place an outright ban. Seems that a better solution would be to select a spot or two, where fishing could be allowed, and ticket those who don't pick up after themselves.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 17, 2013, 01:07:09 PM
No doubt. However, it seems like an enforcement issue to a degree. It's obviously a popular activity since the problems are large enough to place an outright ban. Seems that a better solution would be to select a spot or two, where fishing could be allowed, and ticket those who don't pick up after themselves.
I also see it as an enforcement issue.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 17, 2013, 12:47:06 PM
Coming from a family of "poor fishing village" people, I view it as authentic and real to this region. A truly vibrant place finds ways where all of its residents can enjoy the setting. I believe there's room for the rich, middle class and poor to enjoy our amenities and assets within a compact setting like DT.
I'd much rather Jacksonville was a "poor fishing village" than an empty village, or one only inhabited by 9-5 suits and no one else. I don't believe the Beaches is regarded as a "poor fishing village" and there's a lot more fishing going on out there than in Downtown. I wonder what they do differently to clean up the messes.
It's plain to see there's a major litter problem caused by some fishermen, and it doesn't just happen downtown. Hopefully we can ultimately find a way to better enforce the existing litter laws than eliminating fishing entirely.
How many trashcans are there on the northbank riverwalk and how often are they changed? ::)
From what I've seen, they are few and far between and the ones around The Landing seem to constantly be overflowing. My point is that if there is nowhere convenient to put the trash then people will throw it wherever they want.
Frankly, I think it is a disgrace that people throw trash everywhere so willingly (especially smokers) with no regard for their neighborhoods. But still, if there is not a good place to put it, where will it end up?
Allow fishing (at least in disignated areas) but make damn sure to provide regularly emptied trash and fishing line receptacles and enforce cleanliness. Hell, what would be wrong with a cleaning station at designated fishing areas? That would go a long way toward helping with the guts and carcasses.
Was on the Northbank Sat. 2/13/16 and there is a brand New No Fishing sign at the Tillie Fowler Memorial next to the Y under construction.
We harp over "River Access", fisherperson "Rights" however truly implementing expanded, useful and meaningful "access" that accommodates active engagement & connection with the river would come at a cost and only as a matter of true priority.
Even recently, considerable undeveloped downtown waterfront passed out of public ownership,only to be consigned to minimal public waterfront engagement access. (JEA/Healthy Towne)
An expanded access complex would accommodate designated fishing areas rather than relying on Riverwalk.
Ron Littlepage's opinion piece does not sway and might possibly water down expanded river access placement.
I oppose Riverwalk fishing,better to recognize current Yeehaa River Access,critical needs than to force fishing where it does not belong.
March 17, St. Patrick's Day 2016 was my Pot of Gold with a 26 3/4 inch 10 spot red drum harvested on the Northbank within the 4.8 miles River edge zone of 2014-560 from my SMART kayak 2016-131 that was launched from my unofficial Duval County DUMB Van Down by the River.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 17, 2013, 12:16:39 PM
We have two different ideas of vibrancy. I believe cities develop organically and it's best to find solutions that don't result in specific groups of people getting kicked out. Maybe the answer is to identify a certain concentrated location within the Northbank where these activities can occur (ex. a Shipyards pier, etc.).
+1
2016-305 and we got an "AMEN" from Littlepage after the 5/11/16 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. Stephanie Birch, Public Works/Real Estate told the Finance committee of the Jacksonville city council about the authorized use of the lease being identified as SHIPYARDS PUBLIC FISHING PIER.
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10/17/16 OPEN to the PUBLIC from 12-1 a Lunch and Learn in the Lynwodd Roberts room and the topic is the DIA/CRA.
Stay Positive.