Urban Bathrooms, European Style
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4379-1234347804_bde75b2949.jpg)
Today, finding a bathroom in an emergency downtown can be as problematic as finding a whale fisherman in Kansas. While one might be convinced that they exist in theory, the reality might be a series of disappointments.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/760
I'm sorry, but wtf?
I agree...wtf??? This kind of just came out of nowhere, eh?
Anywho, like the bathroom idea but something tells me that FBCJ wouldn't be too thrilled about an image of a little boy holding his whoo-hoo at the "pissoir", lol.
could this not just be another place for "lewd & lascivious behavior"?
i would think as little as homeless plaza..er, hemming plaza is patrolled right now, this would be like adding fuel to the fire.
I can't image the "pissoir" going over well here in Jacksonville or any where else in the state. If there is a problem, how do other US cities handle them? What ever the Indianapolis', Charlotte's, NYC's of the country are doing about public restroom facilities would most likely be a more realistic solution than what's allowed in Europe. For example, in Savannah's Forsyth Park, they have port-a-pottys adjacent to the main pedestrian walk, but setback far enough to the point of where its not a visual distraction. They also have police on bike patrol.
This does sorta seem out of left field, and I agree, we have a hard enough time keeping the bathrooms in our library's and parks safe and clean... I cant even imagine what would happen in a stand alone unit.
So no one thinks that a single-person unit in a reasonable public area that would be cleaner and larger than a porta-pottie would work? Most of these units in Europe and other cities charge a few bits of shrapnel to enter. Seems a bit more reasonable to enforce payment for use instead of having a bike police man a porta-pottie, right?
Far point, estate4. Personally, I've never had problems using the restroom downtown, but if there are facilities they should be only located in public parks. There's already public restrooms on the Southbank and Northbank riverwalks, Metropolitan Park and Confederate Park. Is the main issue here, having something in Hemming Plaza?
Yikes.
As a mother with young children, I would for sure pay to use one of these! Some change is cheaper than buying lunch or even a drink somewhere to use the bathroom, and if there was a charge then we wouldn’t have to wait 30 minutes while people were lined up to bathe, like at the library. I would pay happily!
I saw something similar (pay restrooms) in San Francisco a few weeks backs - they were in full utilization. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the "little boy peeing" is a silhouette of Manneken Pis - one of the most famous statues in Europe (Brussels, Belgium)...........
Didn't somebody post video of a Japanese game show about this?
All kidding aside the first pic is a joke but the others looked like a good idea. I like the ones that look like a row of Johnny on the spots with room for only one at a time.
I do have to wonder where the first pic came from - it looks like a standard bathroom stall with no bathroom around it.
With that said, I've used ones similar to the last two in Ireland, and they were pretty clean. In fact, in Ireland, there is a time limit on you. they give you warnings, then after like 15-20 minutes, the door just opens (a bit weird, but I understand it). I think they were self cleaning as well.
I'd be okay with them in a public place, as long as they were watched by some sort of security guard.
Quote from: Steve on April 09, 2008, 10:09:52 AM
they give you warnings, then after like 15-20 minutes, the door just opens
now that, i would pay like $2 to see happen to someone...that is funny.
Quote from: Steve on April 09, 2008, 10:09:52 AM
I do have to wonder where the first pic came from - it looks like a standard bathroom stall with no bathroom around it.
With that said, I've used ones similar to the last two in Ireland, and they were pretty clean. In fact, in Ireland, there is a time limit on you. they give you warnings, then after like 15-20 minutes, the door just opens (a bit weird, but I understand it). I think they were self cleaning as well.
Wow. That helps solves a lot of potential problems.
QuoteI'd be okay with them in a public place, as long as they were watched by some sort of security guard.
Ultimately, downtown has a lot of needs, wants and desires with limited funds to make them happen. Outside of Hemming Plaza and an occassional pocket park or two, I don't know if the need for such a contraption should become a higher priority over things like lighting or wayfaring signage.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 09, 2008, 10:22:02 AMUltimately, downtown has a lot of needs, wants and desires with limited funds to make them happen. Outside of Hemming Plaza and an occassional pocket park or two, I don't know if the need for such a contraption should become a higher priority over things like lighting or wayfaring signage.
Completely agree. Right now this administration can't seem to light the sidewalks, so I REALLY don't trust them to pull this off right.
Quote from: stephendare on April 09, 2008, 10:34:45 AM
I think the point is that we are so used to designing for criminals and homeless people that we have stopped designing for Downtown Dweller and her two children.
Bathrooms are a pretty necessary element for human use, and if we want the downtown to work, we have got to begin designing for the end user's comfort and enjoyment.
The alternative is to continue with the present situation: Downtown Dweller cant find a bathroom for the kids on weekends, and the homeless are shitting all over the landscape.
I couldn't have said it better myself ;D
Actually that first pic isn't a joke. That would be a public urinal from Amsterdam. Surprise there? It's just a different mentality there that when you have to go, just go here instead of in the gutter. I'm not saying we should install that kind of thing here. The pay-per-pottie is the way to go.
design for whoever you'd like...the homeless will still screw it up.
you think hemming plaza was 'designed' for the homeless??
how about the new beauty of a pocket park on main st??
but guess who could care less about WHO something was DESIGNED for??
ps - is profanity allowed on these boards??
Quote from: stephendare on April 09, 2008, 10:34:45 AM
I think the point is that we are so used to designing for criminals and homeless people that we have stopped designing for Downtown Dweller and her two children.
Bathrooms are a pretty necessary element for human use, and if we want the downtown to work, we have got to begin designing for the end user's comfort and enjoyment.
The alternative is to continue with the present situation: Downtown Dweller cant find a bathroom for the kids on weekends, and the homeless are shitting all over the landscape.
Other cities have had the same problems over the years. This is one of the solutions that addresses all the same concerns that Jacksonville has.
Outside of Hemming Plaza, because its a public space without restroom facilities, I don't think there's a huge need for them. There's restrooms around, but most aren't aware of where they are located. Outside of Hemming Plaza, this is something that can be resolved with downtown directory signage, something DVI should have installed years ago.
I don't think we need to litter downtown's streets with Port-a-pottys. In a regional mall, you'll probably have two public bathroom facilities spread out over the mall's length. In Regency's case, if placed downtown, that length would stretch from the Northbank Riverwalk to Union Street. We already have a public restroom facility on the riverwalk. It seems the true area of need is Hemming Plaza. Address Hemming and throw it on a (sidewalk directory) map, so people know where public restrooms are at and this whole subject dies a quick death.
Bay Street would be solved if public restroom facilities are provided at the public pier currently under construction, next to Berkman. Any idea of how much these things cost?
Quote from: thelakelander on April 09, 2008, 10:53:57 AM
I don't think we need to litter downtown's streets with Port-a-pottys. In a regional mall, you'll probably have two public bathroom facilities spread out over the mall's length. In Regency's case, if placed downtown, that length would stretch from the Northbank Riverwalk to Union Street. We already have a public restroom facility on the riverwalk. It seems the true area of need is Hemming Plaza. Address Hemming and throw it on a (sidewalk directory) map, so people know where public restrooms are at and this whole subject dies a quick death.
I also trust the mall to provide security for the restrooms, more than I trust COJ
Quote from: stephendare on April 09, 2008, 11:09:29 AM
What makes these things awesome, I think, is the open bottoms. Anyone can see whether or not there is something inappropriate happening or someone sleeping in them. Its such a simple solution, that I really wonder why the modification wasnt immediately made in the 70s.
That's what I don't like about them. People here in America like privacy, as opposed to the world seeing you sit on a toilet for an extended amount of time, then come out of the stall in the middle of a public sidewalk. Personally, I think public restrooms are best if constructed adjacent to main pedestrian walkways and public recreational spaces like they are on the Northbank Riverwalk.
But there's a middle ground. That's public restroom facilities that aren't in the middle of the street. We have a few already. Most just don't know where they're at. This can be solved with public directories.
(http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigmap/brooklyn/downtown/fultonstreetmall/03directory.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-611-dsc01837.JPG)
Quote from: thelakelander on April 09, 2008, 11:43:21 AM
But there's a middle ground. That's public restroom facilities that aren't in the middle of the street. We have a few already. Most just don't know where they're at. This can be solved with public directories.
Exactly right. We've been bemoaning the lack of good signage and wayfinding directories forever. There are solutions to these problems that don't involve a whole new effort, which won't get funded and will never work.
Why aren't these articles signed any more? I think the author should appear in a by-line.
It helps me to get a sense of the rhetoric when I know who writes it. That's the extent of my interest. The content here, with few exceptions, has always been thoughtful and thought-provoking. Thanks!
The pay to pee option sounds compelling for those of us that may have to use the restroom and have some decency. But, it doesn't solve a major issue mentioned in the story. The homeless are not going to pay to pee or poo when there is a perfectly good sidewalk in front of La Cena.
QuotePosition and signage are important, but even more important is re-instituting the public amenities.
The point I was trying to make is that, excluding Hemming, we already have these amenities. Sure we could use more, but its not like nothing exists and we don't need to have them on every block or even every three, four or five. Signage would solve this situation, imo. On top of that, there's restrooms in the library and the Landing. Security (vagrants aside) won't turn you away from using those facilities if you have to. Some decent wayfaring signage and pedestrian directories would go along way to solving this perceived problem as well as many others we deal with today.
Quote from: Johnny on April 09, 2008, 12:47:39 PM
The pay to pee option sounds compelling for those of us that may have to use the restroom and have some decency. But, it doesn't solve a major issue mentioned in the story. The homeless are not going to pay to pee or poo when there is a perfectly good sidewalk in front of La Cena.
I not sold on designing downtown for the homeless. Its already a homeless epicenter of urban vibrancy and street life. Even if facilities are free, that doesn't mean we'll eliminate the guy who wants to relieve himself in front of La Cena.
They're just doing their part to water the plants while the rain is away. Pee is a great fertilizer.
Quote from: stephendare on April 09, 2008, 12:54:20 PM
Lake, we agree on almost every point.
Except. How do you solve 750 guys peeing in public over every square inch of the landscape every day?
Jailing, public shame and the availability of bathrooms 10 blocks away hasnt worked so far.
Most of the bathrooms that one would put on a list are only available after 10 and before 5.
My advice would be to disperse the things that make downtown a homeless mega destination. Right now Hemming is the epicenter and is shouldn't and won't be if the things around it are dispersed. Using limited public funds to add toilets all over downtown limits the possible funding of greater needs like lighting.
i think the bathrooms for the homeless should have baby-changing stations. and attendants inside the bathroom who wear bow-tie tuxes and keep them clean for the homeless. they would have to be tipped of course. i think there should be $20,000 set aside in the city budget each year that could be given out to the homeless each month and specifically ear-marked for tipping the attendant.
Quote from: Jason on April 09, 2008, 01:00:07 PM
They're just doing their part to water the plants while the rain is away. Pee is a great fertilizer.
urea from omnivores or carnivores is not a good fertilizer...only from herbivores. i haven't met a homeless vegan. i've seen vegans who dress and/or smell like the homeless, but never an actual homeless vegan.
Why not just give the vagrants one bathroom and let them use it unmolested, but keep the rest for the consumers? I think some are missing the point I have tried to make, one woman, two children. Children can’t hold it as long as an adult so the bathrooms need to be convenient and safe, it just seems everyone is considering an adult, and perhaps even an adult male needing to use facilities downtown. I hope we have room for more than adult men downtown! BTW, are there any women who post here?…..While there are bathrooms around town, Lake is right in that they are hard to find, and when you do they are filthy gross, or full of people I don’t really want to be around, much less have my children around. Why are the bathrooms on the children’s library floor so full of vagrants? Let them use another floor, enforce it and then you wouldn’t have to spend additional money for more bathrooms in that area, and mom and kids could use the bathroom feeling safe and for free. If the city can’t or won’t address Hemming Plaza, put a bathroom there for vagrants alone. There shouldn’t be any criminal issues since the park seems to be filled with cops every time I have been down there.
A dog water fountain is a GREAT idea, along with doggie poop bags. People water fountains I am not so sure about, studies show they are a breeding ground for germs; they are actually dirtier than a public toilet seat! Of course I would rather rail then any of the above!
good add campaign to get some more bathrooms.
http://www.neatorama.com/2008/04/09/ads-using-trees/
Sozo Wee Wee Man Wee Block
Say no no to wee wee.
They are a "cover" with a sponge inserted inside. That way when you can’t make it to the bathroom, you have a 'sponge" to soak it up. It is washable and therefore reusable and green!
We may have unknowingly (and some would say, inhumanely) stumbled upon the solution to dispersing the homeless from Hemming. Pay to pee there, free pee spots over by stadium and west end of downtown!
Oops, forgot... why walk more than 1500 steps when there is a perfectly good planter within 10?
I am a mother with two young children and we go to the Main Library weekly. We have had no problems with the bathrooms in the children's dept. I even have used the bathroom on the second floor by the 2nd floor reference desk (had to get a key first)--it was ok also. I also have been in the bathrooms on the ground floor (Main St side)-no problems. We also have used the bathroom at Shelby's often---you also have to be a customer and get a key--again, no problems there. I noticed that the vagrant problem seemed more acute on a Sunday that I was there vs. during our normal time during the weekday afternoon. More were coming in as the library opened with suitcases on Sunday. When we are usually there during the week, they are already settled reading the newspaper.
I also wouldn't hesitate going into MOCA or the restaurant if either was was open and asking to use the bathroom if one of my children was in urgent need. I also have in other cities just walked into a restaurant/store with one of my kids unannounced and taken them to the bathroom. I think this is an unwritten mommy rule or something. No one has ever stopped me either.
Oh Shit!
The Colombian solution works just fine too... Employ a few of those homeless and re-open the old restrooms. Each homeless guy or gal gets 3 square meals, a sponge, uniform, mop, pay-check and all the tips he can carry... The patron just pays the guy at the door.
Failing this idea or some form of Euro-Potty, we could always issue brown bags and piss jars to everyone who enters downtown.
As for going in the bushes, well, properly heat treated the stuff makes for great and harmless plant food...
(http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/3412/2000028646994013041_rs.jpg)
Ocklawaha
Actually, not a bad idea Ock.
Great graphic too!
glory, glory, glory.
(http://static.flickr.com/83/247736970_c818ac4964.jpg)
As you can see, even the poorest area's have clean a clean potty. Call it Potty Pride!
All kidding aside, I must confess to being a "user"... Bathrooms that is. I managed to come out of Vietnam with a royal case of poisoning, which proceeded to eat my guts up pretty good. It gets me a handicap sticker and free tags, but I'd rather have my digestion back. ANY TIME I go ANYWHERE without my medicine, it is always "TOUCH AND GO"... If we're ever together downtown, and Ocklawaha suddenly runs off, just figure I've been touched and I GOTTA GO! While I've learned to live with it, and laugh at it over the years, a system of clean restrooms would be a godsend to me and others like me.
(http://www.colombian-services.com/images/The%20Bathroom%201989.jpg)
Would you believe? These guys even place world class art in the RESTROOMS! !SI!
I love the idea of attendents for the restrooms as not only does it keep them clean, and offer employment to someone in need, it's a comfort to folks with medical problems or families, women and small children to know that another adult is nearby and "on patrol". It's a simple idea, which allows for some pride in workmanship. We saw "Potty competition" in Medellin, and the potty patrol wears a "tip me" shirt. Some of the guys and gals to the extra mile of adding flowers, waxing the floors, adding candles or scented sprays, some even have a line of perfumes and toilet articles that they peddle from their spotless throne rooms. People in downtown have their favorite rest stations, you learn the name of the "potty guards"... This is an idea that works, it's a matter of: "Let's go over to Hemming Plaza, I need to use the facilities and Jose keeps that place cleaner then a kitchen. Last week he gave out carnations to everyone who tipped over a $1.00. He always keeps a bottle of "ANGEL" or "PAUL SEBASTION" and since I didn't have time to find mine before the meeting, I'll just get Jose to... etc... etc..." REALLY JACKSONVILLE, we could learn from the so-called-3Rd World and hence lead the 1St World in Potty tech.
(http://static.flickr.com/1425/1044928277_665fe66770.jpg)
Pick the poorest place in town... add security and a potty patrol and you can come on in, sit down and take a load off your mind. BTW, the photo is of a Potty Maid and a local policeman. This is not a war scene, just a nice day in a bad neighborhood.
Those of you headed South of the border? Don't dispair, they have you covened in the end. THEY could teach US how to fix this...
Ocklawaha
VIVA LA REPUBLICA DE COLOMBIA!
http://www.henryk-broder.de/r2/content/forsicht_freddy/images/tn_medellin_boteros.jpg
(http://www.yoquieroir.com/Portals/0/Ciudades/Medellin/EstatuaBotero.jpg)
(http://www.viventura.net/photos/cache/Vor+Botero+Figur+in+Medellin_abcd-480-22338.jpg)
(http://www.colombiansweethearts.com/uploaded/Image/Botero%20Medellin%20-%20Colombia%2002.jpg)
(http://travellady.com/Issues/April07/images/4068Botero.jpg)
Stephendare, thought you knew? Medellin, Colombia, is the City of Botero! The sculptures and art is EVERYWHERE! So is the Botero family. We should promote our local talent and spread the art.
Ocklawaha
Yes, Uribe is great... We should be so lucky! He has done so much for the country that the change is night and day. Anyone that loves ULTRA-MODERN, Dwell houses, metropolis etc... would fall in love with Colombia. How often does a president come along that is so good, the people rise up and change the constitution just so he can run again? Gotta love URIBE.
Ocklawaha
There's already restrooms in Confederate Park. We shot a scene in one of them during to 48 Hour Film competition a few months ago.
While bathrooms in Confederate Park are nice and everything, the ball park and soccer field are at Klutho, and there is no bathroom. Confederate is too far away, and in my opinion the least likely place to be used. All parks should have some type of bathroom, especially parks that have playground equipment and/or sports fields. Klutho even has bleachers, yet where are all these people that are supposed to fill the bleachers supposed to go to the bathroom? Fourth of July, GREAT to watch the fireworks at Klutho park, IF there is a place to go to the bathroom!
glory, glory, glory.
Something I ran across and thought of this thread from months back....
http://www.sfchroniclemarketplace.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/07/17/national/a032801D69.DTL
Neighbors and city-commissioned analysts said the unisex facilities attracted drug users and prostitutes, and were less cost-effective than regular public restrooms.
On May 19, the City Council voted to remove the problem toilets. Council President Richard Conlin said although people were using the high-tech, self-cleaning silver stalls, they also fostered illegal behavior, such as prostitution and drug use.
Quote from: Johnny on July 17, 2008, 01:27:29 PM
Something I ran across and thought of this thread from months back....
http://www.sfchroniclemarketplace.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/07/17/national/a032801D69.DTL
Neighbors and city-commissioned analysts said the unisex facilities attracted drug users and prostitutes, and were less cost-effective than regular public restrooms.
On May 19, the City Council voted to remove the problem toilets. Council President Richard Conlin said although people were using the high-tech, self-cleaning silver stalls, they also fostered illegal behavior, such as prostitution and drug use.
How about getting rid of the druggies and prostitutes.... nevermind.
Seattle sells 5 of its troubled toilets on eBay
SEATTLE (AP) -- Seattle's five problem-plagued public toilets could be yours if you're flush.
City officials decided to pull the plug on the multimillion-dollar self-cleaning toilet stalls and instead put them on the auction site eBay.
Starting bids are $89,000 apiece.
Neighbors and city-commissioned analysts said the unisex facilities attracted drug users and prostitutes, and were less cost-effective than regular public restrooms.
On May 19, the City Council voted to remove the problem toilets. Council President Richard Conlin said although people were using the high-tech, self-cleaning silver stalls, they also fostered illegal behavior, such as prostitution and drug use.
The German-made automatic, high-tech toilets were installed in 2004 and have cost the city about $5 million. Each has handsfree washing and drying ability and an emergency button that automatically dials 911.
The automated doors on the impact- and graffiti-resistant toilets will close Aug. 1, said Andy Ryan, a spokesman for Seattle Public Utilities. The auction will last for 10 days.
As of Thursday morning, none of the toilets had received any bids.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hering-Bau-WCmatic-Automatic-Public-Toilet-1-Seattle_W0QQitemZ170240609824QQihZ007QQcategoryZ1267QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Hering-Bau-WCmatic-Automatic-Public-Toilet-1-Seattle_W0QQitemZ170240609824QQihZ007QQcategoryZ1267QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Let's nail this coffin shut. Public toilets don't work in America, anymore than allowing American born cooks to drink while working. It's not in our cultural makeup: We drink to get drunk, and we use public facilities to commit unspeakable acts. You're not supposed to spend the day in Hemming Plaza. Let's not make the park anymore comfortable for loafers than it already is.