...St. AugustineQuoteAn Orlando consultant on Monday presented the St. Augustine City Commission with a multi-million dollar plan to build a 250,000-gallon aquarium, a state-of-the-art children's museum, a botanical garden, shops and an aviary in a massive Riberia Pointe development.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/09/10/multi-million-dollar-aquarium.html
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2013-09-09/big-plans-riberia-property-includes-childrens-museum-and-aquarium
So who would pay for it? At first I was thinking this was a real proposal. Now I noticed it appears it was just presented by a consultant.
Surprised that Ripley's Aquarium never broached the subject given the museum's longevity / (assumed) success in St. Augustine with the museum...
I love the idea but not so sure about the location.
Can't wait to hear more on this.
Jacksonville's Old Ford Factory would be the MOST AMAZING PLACE to have the Jacksonville Aquarium.
QuotePlans to build an adjacent aquarium and chilren's museum in St. Augustine are moving forward.
The coinciding projects of the Children's Museum of St. Johns and the St. Augustine Aquarium are a public-partnership with the city of St. Augustine proposed for Riberia Pointe with the intention of opening in 2015 in time for the 450th anniversary of the city's founding.
Projected to cost $6.3 million, the nonprofit museum will focus on interactive learning and play. It will highlight science, technology, engineering, art, math, history and culture.
In addition, the state-of-the-art facility will feature indoor and outdoor exhibit space. It is expected to attract at least 85,000 visitors during its first year and pump at least $1.9 million annually into the local economy, said Kim MacEwan, museum executive director.
Read the rest: http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-01-25/story/aquarium-childrens-museum-projects-progressing-st-augustine
They aren't exactly complimenting uses, but it sounds like this will be right by The Ice Plant Distillery. Those will both be strong tourist draws once IP starts distilling and offering tours/ etc, and once the aquarium gets out of the ground.
Quote"The water component is another major factor. It would be an 8,000 square-foot aquarium with interactive touch tanks, water park and plaza. There would be a small outdoor amphitheater for 500 people and a wetland trail."
Isn't Marineland just up the road?
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 14, 2014, 02:41:27 PM
They aren't exactly complimenting uses, but it sounds like this will be right by The Ice Plant Distillery. Those will both be strong tourist draws once IP starts distilling and offering tours/ etc, and once the aquarium gets out of the ground.
It is actually a good distance from The Distillery at the end of Riberia on the point.
See here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=29.874843,-81.309273&spn=0.003907,0.004823&t=h&z=18
The Distillery is here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=29.889402,-81.318167&spn=0.001953,0.002411&t=h&z=19
Quote from: finehoe on February 14, 2014, 03:06:06 PM
Quote"The water component is another major factor. It would be an 8,000 square-foot aquarium with interactive touch tanks, water park and plaza. There would be a small outdoor amphitheater for 500 people and a wetland trail."
Isn't Marineland just up the road?
Marineland is "down" the road. :) The problem with Marineland is that it is way off the beaten path and as no other tourist draws around it. This location/proposal has the backing of thousands of tourists already in town and has the potential to be linked with public transportation.
QuoteIt is actually a good distance from The Distillery at the end of Riberia on the point.
So, close to the new Wyndham?
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=20576.0
The Wyndham is slated to be built across the river from The Distillery (as the crow flies).
Here: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=29.888455,-81.323089&spn=0.001953,0.002411&t=h&z=19
Quote
City approves Riberia Point development fund
Posted: February 26, 2014 - 12:08am
By PETER GUINTA
peter.guinta@staugustine.com
Acting as both a developer and partner to the Riberia Point project, the St. Augustine City Commission voted unanimously Monday night to spend $60,000 for professional services that would create its initial site, engineering, landscape, architecture and other planning.
City Manager John Regan said, "We're looking for something great for the property."
Proposed so far are a public park and public spaces, and the city's partnership with two private entities, a 2.1-acre, for-profit aquarium and a 2.4-acre children's museum.
Read the rest: http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2014-02-26/city-approves-riberia-point-development-fund#.Uw9_7RiYbGg
Can we move Down Town Jacksonville to St.Augustine ?
Quote from: wsansewjs on September 13, 2013, 10:11:18 AM
Jacksonville's Old Ford Factory would be the MOST AMAZING PLACE to have the Jacksonville Aquarium.
I would be amazed it they built it there.
Marineland is a mere shadow of it's former self. It is now a dolphin encounter. Everything else is gone.
This is a small aquarium. It says 8,000sf and 250,000 gallons. The 8,000sf must be the tank size. It has 15,000sf of inside exhibit space about half of a CVS and 25,000 of outside exhibit space, a little over half acre. It only is expecting 75,000 visitors. It might be good to project small.
The Florida Aquarium(tampa) is 250,000sf and has a single reef tank of 500,000 gallons plus others. It measures visitors in the 545,000 to 620,000. It has a two acre outdoor display area. It projected big and lost money early on but recovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Aquarium
The Gerogia(Atlanta) has over a million gallon tank plus others. The Monetray Aquarium has one tank that is 1,000,000 gallons and another 330,000.
250,000 gallons is about the size of a water tower.
I built one once 225,000 gal. It was about 135 ft tall with a 5ft diameter pipe up from the base to a "ball" about 30-35ft in diameter.
^ Exactly. This thing isn't intended to compete with Orlando, Tampa, and the likes. It is merely a small attraction meant to capitalize on the tourists already in town.
The aquarium is a privately funded attraction that is made possible by the City of SA working with the developer. It is intended to be built out over phases and be financially self sufficient.
The developer originally looked in Jacksonville but he was met with crickets.
Quote from: Jason on February 27, 2014, 02:54:38 PM
^ Exactly. This thing isn't intended to compete with Orlando, Tampa, and the likes. It is merely a small attraction meant to capitalize on the tourists already in town.
Then it would be perfect for St Augustine since they have tourist already in town. Jacksonville? .....not so much.
I too like the idea of an aquarium...but a children's museum? I've seen every size and color they come in at this point and wouldn't spend a nickel to see one in a museum.
Ha - had to read that 2x.
Hmm - all the while, the developer placed @ One Spark - perhaps there should be a collaborative effort with the (winning) group trying to bring an aquarium to DT (JAX).
City acknowledges lack of support for Riberia Point plan
Lincolnville residents say they don't want more traffic, noiseQuotethe St. Augustine Children's Museum and the St. Augustine Aquarium does not have public support.
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2014-04-11/city-acknowledges-lack-support-riberia-point-plan#.U0vsQ8eMxnQ
For a successful, yet extremely small urban aquarium, look no farther than Charleston's.
Ridiculously small, basically two tanks, but between the water exhibits and rotating animal exhibits + it's incorporation of the river, they are quite a hit.
I don't understand why the couple trying to fund the St. Aug aquarium doesn't just team up with AquaJax. Together they could make a project bigger than alone. St. Aug doesn't want the aquarium and Jax is dying to have one... Heck Mayor Brown & Khan could probably provide them with a sweet incentive package to come here. :-X
^Agreed. The sort of thing that St. Augustine is doing is the exact same type of thing that hurts Atlanta, when different municipalities don't work together. St. Augustine needs to get behind Jacksonville's aquarium.
Not to be cold, but despite being older, St. Augustine is Jacksonville's bedroom community, not the other way around.
^Agreed x2. I respect what they're doing down there, but the prospect of putting my name on something "world class" certainly trumps everything else. I trust that if Mr. Khan was to get involved in some capacity, world class is precisely what it would/could ultimately be.
Quote from: ben says on April 14, 2014, 03:10:44 PM
For a successful, yet extremely small urban aquarium, look no farther than Charleston's.
Ridiculously small, basically two tanks, but between the water exhibits and rotating animal exhibits + it's incorporation of the river, they are quite a hit.
It has 93,000 SF with a 385,000 gallon tank. It opened in 2000, and cost around $90-100 mm to build as I recall.
St. Augustine by itself probably has more tourist visits than all of Duval County. And this aquarium project is very clearly pretty small, and therefore perhaps more likely to get completed than what they're shooting for in Jax. On the other hand, it would be feeding off/competing with many other attractions in the area, whereas a larger aquarium in downtown Jacksonville would be its own draw and perhaps even compliment the zoo.
Quote from: ben says on April 14, 2014, 03:10:44 PM
For a successful, yet extremely small urban aquarium, look no farther than Charleston's.
Ridiculously small, basically two tanks, but between the water exhibits and rotating animal exhibits + it's incorporation of the river, they are quite a hit.
sorry but I would hardly call the one in Charleston extremely small...its basically 300' long by 100' wide and 3 stories tall...which translates into more than 90,000 square feet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina_Aquarium
It's literally a two tank exhibit, with a few individual fish tanks places throughout. Really amending MOSH to incorporate the river and add some tanks could almost get you there.
Quote from: Steve on April 14, 2014, 04:07:26 PM
^Agreed. The sort of thing that St. Augustine is doing is the exact same type of thing that hurts Atlanta, when different municipalities don't work together. St. Augustine needs to get behind Jacksonville's aquarium.
Not to be cold, but despite being older, St. Augustine is Jacksonville's bedroom community, not the other way around.
Not quite the same thing as Atlanta; no other city in metro Atlanta is a draw in and of itself, whereas St. Augustine is. With a much more historic and happening downtown, it presents real competition to downtown Jacksonville.
^ Agreed - but I certainly thought otherwise for a moment when my daughter talked me into going to the American Girl Store in Alpharetta last summer ;).....
Northern St. Johns County is a bedroom community for Jacksonville. St. Augustine not so much. I used to work in St. Augustine, and a lot of people down there rarely, if ever go to Jacksonville and don't consider themselves to be from Jax. They pretty much have their own self-sustaining economy down there, primarily based on tourism, Flagler College, artists, health care, industrial development etc. St. Augustine proper has very small city limits (and thus low population counts), but if you were to expand it to the urban area immediately around the city, the population is more like 70k.
My quick impression is that the St. Augustine Aquarium proposal is more of a quick stop in the middle of a day of other tourist stops (Pirate Museum, Fort, St. George St, etc), while the Jax Aquarium is more of a half day/all day draw. I don't really see them as competing proposals. St. Augustine's is much more realistic and viable long term, while AquaJax's is speculative.
I still have serious doubts about pumping public dollars and corporate donations into an aquarium in Jax as a long term economic/tourism development strategy and I know I'm not the only one. I hope the local media, power brokers, and downtown advocates take a long hard look at this before anyone starts making large donations, or starts asking for public money/land.
Quote from: CityLife on April 15, 2014, 10:19:30 AM
I used to work in St. Augustine, and a lot of people down there rarely, if ever go to Jacksonville and don't consider themselves to be from Jax.
Because they have their own rich culture, of course most wouldn't say that they're from Jax. That's no slight against Jax either.
If all goes as planned here in Jax, I for one cannot wait for the 'unique' experience of viewing aquatic life on the other side of thick glass tube, so stoked!!!! Nevermind riding a rollercoaster or something.
Quote from: CityLife on April 15, 2014, 10:19:30 AMI still have serious doubts about pumping public dollars and corporate donations into an aquarium in Jax as a long term economic/tourism development strategy and I know I'm not the only one. I hope the local media, power brokers, and downtown advocates take a long hard look at this before anyone starts making large donations, or starts asking for public money/land.
As skeptical as I am that this ever gets off the ground, the proposed site is a mile away from the Northbank core. Impact would be limited without additional infill development in the area to fill in gaps so some sort of pedestrian level synergy could be created.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/600015053_n28CN-M.jpg)
Some have mentioned Baltimore's aquarium as an example to follow. Take a look at the location. It's not a mile away from Baltimore's version of the Landing. Everything at the Inner Harbor is literally immediately adjacent to complementing uses. That's why it works and places that resemble a kicked ant hill at street level don't.
Baltimore Inner Harbor Aerial
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/600014980_faZZ2-M.jpg)
Jacksonville Downtown Riverfront Aerial
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/600015022_6PUdL-M.jpg)
Quote from: thelakelander on April 15, 2014, 12:18:16 PM
Quote from: CityLife on April 15, 2014, 10:19:30 AMI still have serious doubts about pumping public dollars and corporate donations into an aquarium in Jax as a long term economic/tourism development strategy and I know I'm not the only one. I hope the local media, power brokers, and downtown advocates take a long hard look at this before anyone starts making large donations, or starts asking for public money/land.
As skeptical as I am that this ever gets off the ground
That is why I would like for people to get ahead of the curve and either determine if it is viable or not. The AquaJax group took away $13k from One Spark. While not a large sum of money, it still could have gone to other creators that may be more viable. I'd hate for the AquaJax group to repeatedly win money at OneSpark, get a few corporate donations for design, lobbying, feasibility studies; only for everyone to later find out that it isn't a financially feasible project, isn't worth giving free city land to, won't attract enough tourists, won't create synergy downtown, etc.
The points about Baltimore are a great start.
Quotethe proposed site is a mile away from the Northbank core. Impact would be limited without additional infill development in the area to fill in gaps so some sort of pedestrian level synergy could be created.
Now Lake, you know that is the 'Jacksonville Way' to do anything. Isolated, sprawled out from anything else, and GUARANTEED to be the silver bullet we have all been waiting for.
Spending this kind of money on a tourist trophy is not the way to vibrancy. Spend a small fraction of that money on worthwhile projects like the Laura Trio, Landing re-do, Laura Street businesses, Hemming Plaza programming, etc., etc. will do infinitely more in the long run.
While I agree that I'd rather the prize money gone to something else, maybe if they put the $13,000 toward an investment-grade feasibility study, it could save the city and potential donors/investors millions, if it comes back negative.
Some Aquarium competition....
LEGOLAND's owner is building three attractions (Madame Tussauds wax museum, Orlando Eye - 400' tall Ferris Wheel and Sea Life Aquarium) on I-Drive and a LEGOLAND hotel at the theme park. Merlin plans to connect them with a shuttle bus and marketing them together as a multiday attraction.
QuoteMerlin Unveils Plans for Triple Attraction in Orlando...
.....Jones said it is unusual for Merlin to create three new attractions together at the same time. He said Orlando will become a "cluster city," as Merlin calls locations with more than one of its facilities.
The three connected attractions are set inside a major development called I-Drive 360. The project will have 250,000 square feet of restaurant and retail space, said Chuck Whittall, President of Unicorp National Developments, the project's developer. The first restaurant, Yard House, opens next week. Other planned tenants include Tin Roof Bistro, Cowgirls Country Western Bar and Sugar Factory.
The property, just south of the junction of Sand Lake Road and International Drive, is surrounded by such tourist sites as Ripley's Believe It Or Not! and Sleuth's Mystery Dinner Shows. The attraction cluster is less than five minutes from the Orange County Convention Center, one of the nation's busiest, and Jones said Merlin expects the towering Ferris wheel to lure convention-goers to visit the complex.
Jones said Merlin will take advantage of the new cluster of attractions to draw more tourists to Legoland Florida in Winter Haven. The new complex will sell tickets to Legoland, and a shuttle bus to Legoland that now leaves from Orlando Premium Outlets will depart from behind The Orlando Eye.
With four Merlin attractions in Central Florida, the company will promote its Merlin Annual Pass USA, which offers admission to all the company's attractions in the country.
Combined with the opening of an on-site hotel at Legoland next year, the net effect will be more tourists viewing the park as a multi-day attraction, Jones said.
The Orlando Eye will be the tallest observational wheel on the east coast of North America, according to a Merlin press release. The hub is scheduled to be attached to the base next month and the wheel should be assembled by November, Whittall said.
The Orlando Eye will include a "4D" theater showing films depicting Florida scenes, an entertainment suite and a retail area. The feet of two of the eight towers supporting the base of the Ferris wheel extend inside the building, inside which workers were welding structures during a media tour Wednesday.
Sea Life Aquarium Orlando will have 350,000 gallons of water in a 12-foot-deep ocean tank. It will also have a 360-degree underwater tunnel, along with an interactive touch pool exhibit and a video theater.
Madame Tussauds is a chain of wax museums founded in London in the 1830s. The Orlando attraction will display more than 60 likenesses of celebrities and historical figures.
full article: http://www.theledger.com/article/20140416/NEWS/140419418?p=2&tc=pg
People can debate size and type and layout until such issues are agreed upon, but with a huge river and a nearby ocean, you have to admit an aquarium, especially one that specializes in local marine life, would be a natural fit for this city. It has actually been suggested for maybe 20-30 years that I know of.
Kind of sucks that they didn't find a site in or within walking distance of the historic district. Given the size, it would work better in a place where there is a decent amount of foot traffic.
(http://media.bizj.us/view/img/4580591/aquarium9x17*600.jpg)
QuoteSt. Augustine Aquarium buys land, plans for early 2015 opening
After two-and-a-half years of discussions and searching, St Augustine Aquarium LLC has purchased a 5-acre site to build an aquarium in St. Johns County.
The property is located at 2045 State Road 16 in St. Augustine near the Interstate 95 and State Road 16 interchange and the St. Augustine Outlets. The sale closed Dec. 5.
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/12/10/st-augustine-aquarium-buys-land-plans-for-early.html
The design sketch is so imaginative. This is a beautiful building that will clearly stand out in that landscape. Once sketches are revealed for the proposed aquarium in Jacksonville, everyone will know how much better St. Augustine is ;)
^^ It's the Nation's Oldest City. It is definitely a cool place!
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 10, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
Once sketches are revealed for the proposed aquarium in Jacksonville
I could care less if it comes to fruition TBH. Aquariums are so commonplace and boring.
Inspiring, it looks like a Pet Store. 80,000 gallons is the size of a large swimming pool. St Augustine already has a zip line at the Alligator Farm.
Here are some facts for you
Florida Aquariums main tank is 500,000 gallons, St Augustines will be 160,000
If you want to kill a half hour this is the aquarium for you
I wish them all the best but I don't think this has much of a chance. If this was closer to the tourist district it would have done fine.
I guess you're all right.
No one getting off of the interstate to spend a few days in St. Augustine would even consider a 2 hour detour for $12 each to check out some fish in tanks. They'll be on the way to or already on vacation. Who's got time for that?
QuoteThe snorkel adventure will have rays and other Florida sealife that visitors can interact with. "We'll have the opportunity to snorkel with the species that live right off the coast of Florida," said Kathy Hiester, who — along with her husband, Shawn — are behind the project.
I know some people are scared of sharks and some aren't strong swimmers, but out of state tourists have plenty of opportunities to do this on their trip to the state. Sebastian Inlet, Fort Pierce Inlet, Bathtub Beach in Stuart, and countless places in South Florida and the Keys have great snorkeling right off the beach. Discovery Cove has decent snorkeling in Orlando and is affiliated with Sea World as well. I just don't see many tourists stopping off the highway to snorkel there.
If they go forward with this, I hope they can tap into the local school field trip market.
Not sure about this one. Location could be a killer.
So it's by the outlet mall(s)? Certainly seems tourist trappy.
I'm stunned with the SR-16 location. Let me see, build it near Ripley's etc where all of the action is, or on the ass end of SR-16 near the outlet malls (the indoor I-95 South side is feeling negative effects from the economy BTW, with several closed stores like Nautica, and others in the interior mall) a mind boggling decision.
Most highway-side tourist attractions plays heavily on visibility; Will this thing even be visible from the highway? I'll be surprised if it is. Like many said already, obviously this will not compete with Tampa, Orlando etc, putting that in the old city should've been a no brainer. Well, if you are from Jax, and like aquariums, visit it often as you can, because it's definitely gonna need your help IMO.
Yeah. In the old city, where people are already on foot and where it could feed off that traffic and accessibility to other attractions would have been ideal. Out by I-95? Good luck on keeping people coming in on a regular basis.
Google Maps says it's an 8 minute drive from downtown St. Auggie to the Alligator Farm. This is 11 minutes away. The Alligator Farm is also on the way to the beach, next to the Lighthouse, Gypsy Cab Co., and Conch House. It is still somewhat in the tourist area. This takes you totally away from everything (save the Outlets).
Also, many people driving to St. Augustine from Jacksonville don't even take 16. Google Maps tells you to take 295 to US-1 and a lot of people also cut over at WGV and take 9 Mile Road (the scenic route).
I know they got some pushback from residents in Lincolnville and land acquisition is much higher, but they should have either located near the Historic District or on the Island (near the Alligator Farm). I think that may cost them in the long run, but do wish them well. I wish the County and/or St. Augustine would jump in and offer them a little financial support if they were to locate closer to the tourist areas.
QuoteI don't understand why the couple trying to fund the St. Aug aquarium doesn't just team up with AquaJax. Together they could make a project bigger than alone. St. Aug doesn't want the aquarium and Jax is dying to have one... Heck Mayor Brown & Khan could probably provide them with a sweet incentive package to come here.
This is, for the most part, a privately funded endeavor and as everyone here has mentioned, we have seriously missed the boat by not securing downtown Jacksonville as the location. I would love to see some email communication or written record from the Mayor's office, City Council or the Chamber of Commerce explaining why they thought this wasn't a worthwhile project to bring to Jacksonville.
These are the kinds of stories that are just humiliating for this city. Maybe the public reaction of Jax citizens will be loud enough to force someone's hand here. We cannot continue being a city with "potential," we MUST bring ideas like this to fruition or else that potential will die. There are plenty of people in this city that could have made the necessary accomodations to get an aquarium here. The Hiesters' plan may be small, may be even too small to work for the long run, but at least this plan has someone with some skin in the game. I applaud the Hiesters' passion in proposing this idea and their financial investment in it, but this is a damning indictment on anyone and everyone in Jacksonville who could have made us the destination. Here's a message to City Council, Chamber of Commerce and the Mayor's Office - you have all failed by letting this one go - you're either too inept at your jobs if you were unaware of this story or you're in the wrong job because you lack the absolutely required vision for where this city needs to go.
This is why we can't have nice things.
Was this proposal ever offered to Jacksonville, for it to be rejected?
Not that I'm aware of.
^It seems unlikely that the "St. Augustine Aquarium" would have proposed building elsewhere.
Quote from: SunKing on February 27, 2014, 03:45:07 PM
The aquarium is a privately funded attraction that is made possible by the City of SA working with the developer. It is intended to be built out over phases and be financially self sufficient.
The developer originally looked in Jacksonville but he was met with crickets.
I don't care if this proposal was OFFERED to us, the City of Jacksonville can't be waiting around for offers to make our city better, we need to be the ones rolling out the red carpet and presenting our city as a candidate for such things. We can't wait for great opportunities to be presented to us and think that one day, hopefully, we'll have those great ideas fall into our laps, we have to get out there and make our own opportunities. Even if the Hiester family and the developer said no, we have an obligation to ourselves as a city to try and make these things happen here.
The developer is banking on foot traffic being in the 100,000 person range. We get millions of people downtown and maybe the joint venture of AquaJax and the Chamber of Commerce could have made a more attractive offer than what they've got. I want to know why the developer was "met with crickets" here. I want to know why the city didn't even attempt to take a swing at it.
Interesting
http://www.news4jax.com/news/merlin-entertainments-has-its-eye-on-florida/31255440
St. Augustine Aquarium hits the brakes due to 'permitting issues'
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/11/17/st-augustine-aquarium-hits-the-breaks-due-to.html