An FTU article about the reconstruction of Five Points Village:
QuoteThe city also wanted the stores pushed up to Margaret Street with parking in back. But he didn't agree to that.
"It just wasn't feasible," he said. "You have to have two fronts; there'd be no place for deliveries."
So the center is staying where it was, on the back of the property with the parking in front.
"It looks like a brand-new version of old Riverside," he said.
Sleiman claims he has the most parking in Riverside for the size of his center. He'll have about 17,500 square feet, a little less than it used to be.
There will be seven storefronts, down from the nine it used to have. No leases have been signed, and none of the previous tenants have leases either.
Three will be restaurants, he said, most likely fast casual. He mentioned all the usual suspects: Asian, a breakfast place, Tex-Mex, a sandwich place ...
"Lunch does really well here," he said, "because of the parking."
full article: http://jacksonville.com/business/2013-08-29/story/new-look-five-points-village-under-construction-after-2012-fire#ixzz2dS4WEK1Q[/quote]
So I guess stores in Manhattan never get deliveries? What a ridiculous statement. I am convinced Sleiman is about as imaginative as a piece of blank paper when it comes to building shopping centers. It also sounds like he wants to bring in low budget business there. Whats wrong with aiming higher and working with Trader Joe's or something like that? Would it have been feasible to put a loading zone parallel parking area on Margaret Street? I am just confused by this whole article and how he refused to do things the city wanted done.
This is Jacksonville. Land of the bland and anti progressive minds.
I guess that's been the point of the majority of these threads: Developers are going to do what makes the easiest, quickest buck for them, and without the minimum standards changing, then developers are not going to change their habits.
If he was required to maintain minimum setbacks, add public amenities and adjust parking, then he would have. As long as our laws in place still allow sprawling, cheap strip malls to go up, then they'll continue to go up.
So to your point, and this is conjecture only to prove my point: Sleimen might be one of the most progressive thinking minds out there, but he KNOWS that he will make more money, sooner by just rebuilding what was there. Why change? Is it his neighborhood? Is he the one living beside it? Does he make more money by building a 'nicer' project or one that meets the minimum requirements?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2013, 08:45:09 AM
I guess that's been the point of the majority of these threads: Developers are going to do what makes the easiest, quickest buck for them, and without the minimum standards changing, then developers are not going to change their habits.
If he was required to maintain minimum setbacks, add public amenities and adjust parking, then he would have. As long as our laws in place still allow sprawling, cheap strip malls to go up, then they'll continue to go up.
So to your point, and this is conjecture only to prove my point: Sleimen might be one of the most progressive thinking minds out there, but he KNOWS that he will make more money, sooner by just rebuilding what was there. Why change? Is it his neighborhood? Is he the one living beside it? Does he make more money by building a 'nicer' project or one that meets the minimum requirements?
+100
I would say the inmates run the asylum. But the inmates actually just make large campaign donations to the people running the asylum. It will never change until the same types keep getting voted in.
Of course another option is that he just didn't renovate it and left the old format in place. What it really shows is how long we have to deal with the bad policies that approved this design back in the 70s. Now it will be there even longer.
I find it very interesting that the powers that be who made the Mellow Mushroom project and the Fishweir Creek/ Commander Development such a stygian hell can not bring it on themselves to howl and make life miserable for this Sleiman fellow...A strip mall in Five Points? Thats a crazy idea.
Quote from: Stephen on August 30, 2013, 09:42:45 AM
I find it very interesting that the powers that be who made the Mellow Mushroom project and the Fishweir Creek/ Commander Development such a stygian hell and not bring it on themselves to howl and make life miserable for this Sleiman fellow...A strip mall in Five Points? Thats a crazy idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHJbSvidohg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHJbSvidohg)
http://www.youtube.com/v/KHJbSvidohg
Quote from: Stephen on August 30, 2013, 09:42:45 AM
I find it very interesting that the powers that be who made the Mellow Mushroom project and the Fishweir Creek/ Commander Development such a stygian hell and not bring it on themselves to howl and make life miserable for this Sleiman fellow...A strip mall in Five Points? Thats a crazy idea.
well the big difference is the building was already there...and he probably could have rebuilt it as it was
RAP and the city both attempted to make this happen, but the challenge is that this isn't a new development or renovation
really, but a "repair". On repairs, there is very little that either side can do.
I assure you, no one is happy with the way this is coming out.
Unfortunately, it is what it is. Hopefully, the neighborhood will at least get a few new retailers and restaurants out of it.
Quote from: Steve on August 30, 2013, 10:21:45 AM
RAP and the city both attempted to make this happen, but the challenge is that this isn't a new development or renovation
really, but a "repair". On repairs, there is very little that either side can do.
I assure you, no one is happy with the way this is coming out.
True.
But what about the next one? And the one after that? and after that.... If RAP and the city are so adamant about making sure that the developments are going to be designed more to their liking why don't they change the legislation and up the minimum standards across the board?
Quote from: thelakelander on August 30, 2013, 10:25:17 AM
Unfortunately, it is what it is. Hopefully, the neighborhood will at least get a few new retailers and restaurants out of it.
Weren't all the spaces occupied? Good, bad or indifferent his remodel is still a net -2 and will continue to look bleh.
Quote from: Steve on August 30, 2013, 10:21:45 AMI assure you, no one is happy with the way this is coming out.
Except for the guy that burnt down his restaurant for insurance money in the first place!
Quote from: PeeJayEss on August 30, 2013, 10:36:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on August 30, 2013, 10:21:45 AMI assure you, no one is happy with the way this is coming out.
Except for the guy that burnt down his restaurant for insurance money in the first place!
(http://i.imgur.com/Fvgzm.gif)
And he NAILS the landing!
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2013, 10:35:04 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 30, 2013, 10:25:17 AM
Unfortunately, it is what it is. Hopefully, the neighborhood will at least get a few new retailers and restaurants out of it.
Weren't all the spaces occupied? Good, bad or indifferent his remodel is still a net -2 and will continue to look bleh.
I guess it depends on how one looks at it. Before you had a pretty nasty pig. A few months ago, it could do all the twerking in the world and it was still Miley Cyrus. Now, the pig is getting a bubble bath and lipstick. Catch it on the right night after a few drinks in Five Points and it will look like Rihanna.
An upgraded retail center will attract a different type of tenant. Also, if the old businesses were viable, you still have the possibility of a few of them locating in other spaces in the neighborhood or coming back to the center themselves. Give it a year or so and there will be a better read on if it is a net -2 or not.
I don't think it's fair to say this is a net loss, given the state of it now. It's not the "highest and best use" of the property, but it wasn't before, and a non-fire-damaged strip mall is better than a fire-damaged strip mall.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 30, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2013, 10:35:04 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 30, 2013, 10:25:17 AM
Unfortunately, it is what it is. Hopefully, the neighborhood will at least get a few new retailers and restaurants out of it.
Weren't all the spaces occupied? Good, bad or indifferent his remodel is still a net -2 and will continue to look bleh.
I guess it depends on how one looks at it. Before you had a pretty nasty pig. A few months ago, it could do all the twerking in the world and it was still Miley Cyrus. Now, the pig is getting a bubble bath and lipstick. Catch it on the right night after a few drinks in Five Points and it will look like Rihanna.
An upgraded retail center will attract a different type of tenant. Also, if the old businesses were viable, you still have the possibility of a few of them locating in other spaces in the neighborhood or coming back to the center themselves. Give it a year or so and there will be a better read on if it is a net -2 or not.
A few drinks in Chris Brown Rhianna or about to go on-stage Rhianna?
Quote from: PeeJayEss on August 30, 2013, 10:36:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on August 30, 2013, 10:21:45 AMI assure you, no one is happy with the way this is coming out.
Except for the guy that burnt down his restaurant for insurance money in the first place!
I find it sad you would say this PeeJayEss when it was reported in the News Media around town that. "Florida Fire Marshal's Office unable to determine cause of Wasabi Buffet fire
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-06-22/story/florida-fire-marshals-office-unable-determine-cause-wasabi-buffet-fire#ixzz2dSyPN2RO
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2013, 10:32:40 AM
Quote from: Steve on August 30, 2013, 10:21:45 AM
RAP and the city both attempted to make this happen, but the challenge is that this isn't a new development or renovation
really, but a "repair". On repairs, there is very little that either side can do.
I assure you, no one is happy with the way this is coming out.
True.
But what about the next one? And the one after that? and after that.... If RAP and the city are so adamant about making sure that the developments are going to be designed more to their liking why don't they change the legislation and up the minimum standards across the board?
Because the developers own City Council and will not let any legislation pass that will affect their bottom line.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2013, 11:13:10 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 30, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2013, 10:35:04 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 30, 2013, 10:25:17 AM
Unfortunately, it is what it is. Hopefully, the neighborhood will at least get a few new retailers and restaurants out of it.
Weren't all the spaces occupied? Good, bad or indifferent his remodel is still a net -2 and will continue to look bleh.
I guess it depends on how one looks at it. Before you had a pretty nasty pig. A few months ago, it could do all the twerking in the world and it was still Miley Cyrus. Now, the pig is getting a bubble bath and lipstick. Catch it on the right night after a few drinks in Five Points and it will look like Rihanna.
An upgraded retail center will attract a different type of tenant. Also, if the old businesses were viable, you still have the possibility of a few of them locating in other spaces in the neighborhood or coming back to the center themselves. Give it a year or so and there will be a better read on if it is a net -2 or not.
A few drinks in Chris Brown Rhianna or about to go on-stage Rhianna?
Instagram Rihanna
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2013, 11:13:10 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 30, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 30, 2013, 10:35:04 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 30, 2013, 10:25:17 AM
Unfortunately, it is what it is. Hopefully, the neighborhood will at least get a few new retailers and restaurants out of it.
Weren't all the spaces occupied? Good, bad or indifferent his remodel is still a net -2 and will continue to look bleh.
I guess it depends on how one looks at it. Before you had a pretty nasty pig. A few months ago, it could do all the twerking in the world and it was still Miley Cyrus. Now, the pig is getting a bubble bath and lipstick. Catch it on the right night after a few drinks in Five Points and it will look like Rihanna.
An upgraded retail center will attract a different type of tenant. Also, if the old businesses were viable, you still have the possibility of a few of them locating in other spaces in the neighborhood or coming back to the center themselves. Give it a year or so and there will be a better read on if it is a net -2 or not.
A few drinks in Chris Brown Rhianna or about to go on-stage Rhianna?
Whoa.
Now, as far as RAP appealing to anyone, there really isn't anyone for RAP to appeal to. The city really can't stop this one. To a few people's point, a renovated center will attract a different tenant, and likely something better than was there now (my apologies to anyone that owned the jiffy or bad buffet).
Quote from: PeeJayEss on August 30, 2013, 10:36:38 AM
Quote from: Steve on August 30, 2013, 10:21:45 AMI assure you, no one is happy with the way this is coming out.
Except for the guy that burnt down his restaurant for insurance money in the first place!
He wasn't insured. He was wiped out completely.
Slieman probably had some insurance, but not enough to cover the complete rebuild.
Well, this place appears to be "done" (at least the shell.) There's a new Chase ATM there and a bunch of empty store fronts. Anyone have any gossip on what the anchor store is going to be?
I really wish the Maytag Laundromat would go back in, but I have a feeling that the rent is going to be absolutely ridiculous and they won't be able to afford to go back.
Quote from: stephendare on April 03, 2014, 10:03:10 AM
Quote from: RiversideLoki on April 03, 2014, 09:56:27 AM
Well, this place appears to be "done" (at least the shell.) There's a new Chase ATM there and a bunch of empty store fronts. Anyone have any gossip on what the anchor store is going to be?
I really wish the Maytag Laundromat would go back in, but I have a feeling that the rent is going to be absolutely ridiculous and they won't be able to afford to go back.
Same here. Maytag had been doing my laundry for 14 years when the place burned. Now I go to Blu Wave over on McDuff, its nice, but I liked the family that had Maytag.
Same here, I'd toss the football with the kids sometimes to pass the time while my stuff was in. Great family, I hope they're doing well.
Local gossip has it that an M-Shack, the Madure's hamburger place, is going to be one of the tenants. Hope they don't cover the neighborhood with the smell of burnt grease the way the Five Guys place did.
I think the people who had the Maytag laundromat opened the Blue Wave (?) laundromat place at the corner of Post and McDuff. It's really nice inside and has a great selection of machines.
I heard Five Guys was coming back to the area but I'm not sure if it will be there or in one of the spaces by Fresh Market.
Quote from: Dog Walker on April 03, 2014, 10:09:09 AM
Local gossip has it that an M-Shack, the Madure's hamburger place, is going to be one of the tenants. Hope they don't cover the neighborhood with the smell of burnt grease the way the Five Guys place did.
I thought M-Shack was going to the Fresh Market center on Riverside Ave.
Quote from: Dog Walker on April 03, 2014, 10:09:09 AM
Local gossip has it that an M-Shack, the Madure's hamburger place, is going to be one of the tenants. Hope they don't cover the neighborhood with the smell of burnt grease the way the Five Guys place did.
I think the people who had the Maytag laundromat opened the Blue Wave (?) laundromat place at the corner of Post and McDuff. It's really nice inside and has a great selection of machines.
Actually you have it the other way around with M-Shack/Five Guys. Both will be in the area... but an interstate will be seperating the two.
Ah! So M-Shack on Riverside and 5 Guys in the 5 Points Village. Local rumors are SO reliable. Thanks!
Wonder why 5 Guys thinks a store will work there when it didn't just a couple of blocks away? Parking?
Maybe it was the terms of the leasing agreements between two spaces and not the market? Sort of like the Panera Bread situation in San Marco.
Quote from: dougskiles on April 03, 2014, 10:26:51 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on April 03, 2014, 10:09:09 AM
Local gossip has it that an M-Shack, the Madure's hamburger place, is going to be one of the tenants. Hope they don't cover the neighborhood with the smell of burnt grease the way the Five Guys place did.
I thought M-Shack was going to the Fresh Market center on Riverside Ave.
The T-U quoted Matthew Medure as saying he'd signed a letter of intent for Shoppes on Riverside, but hadn't signed a final lease yet. He was still deciding.
first post. just wanted to say that what I vision appearing there would be the typical Family Dollar, Nails, Cash Advance, Cell phone shop combo. :'(
I bet if we get everyone to gather behind the building, we could push it up to the sidewalk ourselves. Who's with me?
I'm in!
Any chance of Hot Wok coming back?
Quote from: FSBA on April 06, 2014, 11:12:40 AM
Any chance of Hot Wok coming back?
I talked to the owner of Hot Wok a few months back and he insists he'll be reopening there.
Quote from: riverside_mail on April 07, 2014, 06:44:28 AM
Quote from: FSBA on April 06, 2014, 11:12:40 AM
Any chance of Hot Wok coming back?
I talked to the owner of Hot Wok a few months back and he insists he'll be reopening there.
Whew, there's only so much more China Joy I can take... Now if Hawker's delivered....
Quote from: RiversideLoki on April 09, 2014, 03:30:15 PM
Quote from: riverside_mail on April 07, 2014, 06:44:28 AM
Quote from: FSBA on April 06, 2014, 11:12:40 AM
Any chance of Hot Wok coming back?
I talked to the owner of Hot Wok a few months back and he insists he'll be reopening there.
Whew, there's only so much more China Joy I can take... Now if Hawker's delivered....
Panda House on King is better than both. No delivery though.
Golden China by Publix near I-295 on Normandy is by far the worst Chinese I ever tasted. It makes those Chinese places mentioned award winning. #MJisbackfromthehiatus
I truly enjoy panda house and china joy with equal fervor because they both through down with the tofu\bean curd.
Love the Curry Tofu from Panda House!
Quote from: RiversideLoki on April 09, 2014, 03:30:15 PM
Quote from: riverside_mail on April 07, 2014, 06:44:28 AM
Quote from: FSBA on April 06, 2014, 11:12:40 AM
Any chance of Hot Wok coming back?
I talked to the owner of Hot Wok a few months back and he insists he'll be reopening there.
Whew, there's only so much more China Joy I can take... Now if Hawker's delivered....
We get Hawkers (and Derby, and Black Sheep, and Carmines, and etc.) delivered all the time through Community Couriers (327-6810). Just call Ben (tell him Minda sent you), and he delivers from all of these places to the 5 Points, Avondale, downtown core area. :) It's only a $2.99 delivery fee and it's all on bikes. He also does grocery shopping and other services, but the delivery service is fast and easy. I'm hoping they did well with their entry in One Spark.
(http://nebula.wsimg.com/d6483a7677bdfce0ac3e1ff38707c254?AccessKeyId=7545205EF9C2115B9D4D&disposition=0&alloworigin=1)
http://www.communitycouriersjax.com/home.html (http://www.communitycouriersjax.com/home.html)