QuoteCourthouse: Get the job done
By
The Times-Union
The last thing anyone wants is to build a $190 million courthouse for $350 million.
However, voters approved bonds for a new courthouse eight years ago - and it still hasn't been built.
Meanwhile, the old Eisenhower-era courthouse is, in the words of former chief administrative officer Sam Mousa, "beyond repair."
Mousa, hired to evaluate the project, says the most cost-effective option is to forge ahead on the new courthouse now. The more delays, the higher the cost.
And, while $350 million is a lot of money, at least it's $45 million less than the project was going to cost before he got involved.
Yes, voters were promised a $190 million price tag.
But at the time, nobody knew a major terrorist strike would require costly new security standards.
Nor did people realize a building boom in China would send construction material prices spiraling.
Even with those unusual circumstances, architects of the Better Jacksonville Plan should have done a better job of estimating costs.
They didn't. But it's time to solve problems, not continue assigning blame.
It would have been nice if Mousa, speaking to a City Council committee meeting Monday, would have guaranteed the price.
But he didn't.
"I believe our costs may be reduced to ... $350 million," he said. (Emphasis added.)
Why, then, forge ahead on a project with a long history of cost escalations?
There are two reasons:
- Mousa's reputation. He oversaw many major building projects while working for the city - City Hall and the football and baseball stadiums, for example - and they turned out well.
- The city is in a position to get a bargain. As Mousa told the committee:
"Contractors are currently hungry for work [because of the bad economy].
"City projects that would have typically generated three to five bidders in the past are now generating 13 to 15 bidders.
"Bids currently being received are some 20 percent to 25 percent lower simply because contractors are desperate for work ..."
Besides, as Mousa notes, the project would give the local economy a much-needed shot in the arm.
Mousa's plan isn't even remotely ideal, of course. It's the best possible outcome in a worst-possible scenario.
"Jails and courthouses," as Mousa said, "are not facilities anyone wants to construct - they are unique, heavily utilized, constructed for excessive abuse and are fairly expensive, and nothing good usually happens there."
But Duval County needs a courthouse. The current facility is a rat-infested embarrassment. Finish the project and move on.
time line
Best-case scenario: After years of delay, things could conceivably happen quickly: - April 22: City Council votes. - This fall: Request for bids. - Late '08: Construction begins. - June 2011: Completion.
This story can be found on Jacksonville.com at http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040308/opi_264318896.shtml.
I still don't get how Charlotte did a courthouse for 150 million or so and we can't. Are we dramatically different than them?
QuoteAre we dramatically different than them?
YES. They were willing to construct a utilitarian structure.
Some very good comments made in that article.
I say go all out and make this building Jacksonville's version of the Empire State Building. Keep the contracts local and let it be a positive to our economy in a time of potential recession. All of the spin off proposals are sure to take off as well furthering the economic impact and revival of downtown.
I think it was Lake that suggested using the old JEA building for part of the square footage needed.
That sounds like a great idea to me, if that must space can be kept independent from the functions of the new building (just as the old Federal building and the Ed Ball Building are doing).
There was some kind of court suit about that building i seem to recall. Does anyone rememeber that or what the status is?
The building is now owned by Hionedes and is for sale.
Wasn't the old JEA building proposed for another development directly related to the Courthouse project? due to the delay in the Courthouse, I believe that project has also been delayed.
Quote from: fsujax on April 04, 2008, 12:53:00 PM
Wasn't the old JEA building proposed for another development directly related to the Courthouse project? due to the delay in the Courthouse, I believe that project has also been delayed.
Those plans were before Hoinides bought it.
Hionedes purchased it after that project died for $4 million. Its currently listed for sale at $10 million, but the seller mentions that a significant price reduction could be obtained for quick closing. If feasible, it could be cheaper to renovate it and build a new 638,000sf criminal/civil courthouse as opposed to leaving it empty and building a new 800,000sf courthouse building. If so, then there could be a greater price reduction on top of what Mousa already trimmed.
Isn't the old (new) Bell South/AT&T building going to be vacant? It's new, close in and why the heck not?
Ocklawaha
Quote from: Steve on April 03, 2008, 01:40:33 PM
I still don't get how Charlotte did a courthouse for 150 million or so and we can't. Are we dramatically different than them?
Charlotte did one for $150 mil huh? What does theirs look like? Is it vertical or horizontal?
Height Unknown
It's a utilitarian mid-rise 568,000 square foot building. It has 47 courtrooms and 10,000 square feet of street retail included in the plan. The price tag came out overbudget at $148 million or $261 per square foot.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3570-361596563_ebbb1a17c2_b.jpg)
If we could get ours down to the same price per square foot, ours would cost $209 million.
I am surprised no one has commented about the City Council approving the budget increase for the Courthouse. Maybe this thing will finally happen.
I heard that last night too. I hope the budget is based on a detailed set of construction documents or we'll be right back where we started.
Quote from: fsujax on April 09, 2008, 12:53:17 PM
I am surprised no one has commented about the City Council approving the budget increase for the Courthouse. Maybe this thing will finally happen.
I figured it was a done deal when the council's transportation committee approved it the other week. Everything at this point is just going through the motions.
We might need a new courthouse so that the judges won't have to share courtrooms that sit empty more than full, so we can avoid night or weekend court, so we can look fancy or sell the water front property we couldn't sell at city hall.
But
We need better schools more.
We need better park services for our children more.
We need better transit more.
We need better police presence more.
We need to prioritize and this bloated courthouse just should not be very far up the list.
I will rethink it the day we get a great buyer on the hook for the old courthouse property.
I'm beginning to think Jacksonville couldn't organize a 2 car parade. Present company excluded. ;D
Quote from: JeffreyS on April 15, 2008, 10:26:50 PM
We need to prioritize and this bloated courthouse just should not be very far up the list.
I will rethink it the day we get a great buyer on the hook for the old courthouse property.
When an RPF (Request for Proposals) was done several years back, three very substantial proposals were offered by private parties. This was a 'fishing expedition' by the city, since I believe the BJP had not even been approved yet, so it was not an 'actionable' option at that time.
Because of the protracted timeline this thing has gone through, I don't think the city will see serious interest in the site of the existing courthouse, until it is vacant. Why would anyone waste their time and money on something so nebulous.