Another year, another list. This time, all three Florida teams get blasted....
QuoteEvery Florida team can claim it's been picked on in the wake of the recession, but all are suggesting collectively that NFL demand in the state is too soft to support three teams.
So who goes? The favorite target in recent years has been the Jacksonville Jaguars. The team tarps off nearly 10,000 seats in 76,900-seat EverBank Field on the flimsy premise that it's a "college stadium" that needs expanded capacity for bowl games. Well sorry to break this to you, Jacksonville, but there are about 19 stadiums in the league with an NFL capacity greater than the 67,246 you let into Jags games. Your 2005 Super Bowl was roundly panned, your new owner hasn't committed to a future in town and your city hall still needs to organize ticket-buying drives.
Even so, even though they've had help from sponsors, the Jaguars haven't had to black out a game in years. The Miami Dolphins can make a similar claim, but they've needed sponsor help in recent years as well. The team has been flailing (three winning seasons since 2003 and none since 2008), owner Stephen Ross had his request for publicly funded stadium renovations shot down by lawmakers and their odds of finally wresting an AFC East title from the New England Patriots this season seem as unlikely as a Golden Girls reunion.
Yet a rich history, deep-pocketed sponsors, celebrity co-owners and a city on the rebound will likely keep the Dolphins in place for a good, long time.
Nope, the one team in Florida that might be the best candidate for packing its bags is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
The team blacked out six out of eight home games last season and 25 out of the past 29 overall. Management accepted the new blackout threshold and tweaked ticket prices. Granted, attendance for a majority of the team's blacked-out home games in the two seasons before this fell below the new 85% mark, but all the better for deflecting blame to the NFL itself.
Never mind that the team's $69.72 average ticket price is still the costliest in Florida despite being $10 below the league average, according to Team Marketing Report's Fan Cost Index. By comparison, Seattle Seahawks fans in a far more economically stable city paid $2 less to see their team play each Sunday last year. The Seahawks made the playoffs, while the Bucs didn't even make their local affiliate's broadcast most of the time.
So where would the Bucs go? Ask the Glazer family of owners, who punted Bucs home games to London in 2009 and 2011 because they were more profitable than playing them in Tampa. The Glazers are a bit preoccupied by England, what with owning one of its more storied Premier League franchises in Manchester United, so the NFL to them is a bit like their "football" is to the average Bucs fan -- an afterthought at best.
You have an ownership too rich and preoccupied with international wins to care and you have a local fan base too rattled by the recession and put off by years of mediocrity to make an investment. The result is a halfhearted attempt to field a competitive NFL team and a half-interested fan base almost hoping this week's Bucs game doesn't sell out so Fox can show the far superior NFC game of the week instead.
NFL owners don't usually put up with this kind of brazen apathy, but the Glazers would have to stay in Tampa long enough to notice. If the Glazers are trying to create enough institutional disinterest to move the team to London without generating so much as a belabored sigh, they're doing a brilliant job.
full article: http://www.thestreet.com/story/11998448/1/5-nfl-teams-that-should-just-move-already.html
Always take these lists with a grain of salt, but I do notice many more teams continue to stay on the list. I have been under the belief that eventually the NFL will get an LA stadium, after all it is too big of a market to ignore, and that the Raiders will head south. Now, I am not sure. It seems Farmers Field is dead in the water, and even in built the Rams might be the better choice. With the exception of the northeast (giants, jets, patriots, steelers, eagles) I think a lot of the northern teams will continue to see downturns and maybe eventually move. Just following the population trends south. I often wonder how Detroit can still sustain a team yet San Antonio or Salt Lake City don't.
And of course, I do also wonder of some of these lists have no factual basis at all, just a blogger eager to build traffic.
Quote from: JayBird on August 14, 2013, 09:32:55 AM
And of course, I do also wonder of some of these lists have no factual basis at all, just a blogger eager to build traffic.
Ding ding ding :)
Nobody's going anywhere any time soon.
The NFL has failed in both LA and Europe in the past, and there is no guarantee that things will turn out any differently now. The league has 32 stable franchises that make money hand over fist, and if and when London and Los Angeles do come calling, those markets will be big enough to sell league owners on an expansion to 34 teams.
Realistically though, Los Angeles has been far more valuable to the league as a looming boogeyman, ready to steal your city's local team if you don't pony up enough cash, than it ever was when it hosted the Raiders or Rams.
sure...so maybe attendance and team loyalty in Florida aren't great....after all, the state only started booming in population after 1970....but do we really think the NFL is going to abandon a state with 20 million people?
This is the funniest shit Ive read in a long time. None of it is fact based. Our owner has not committed to the town, City hall has not organized ticket selling drives? HUH? Did we not organize team teal a few years back? Has Khan not put his stamp on this franchise and committed to Jax? Whatever idiot wrote this needs to stop drinking when he's writing articles. None of what he wrote made sense.
btw...regarding ticket pricess....Raiders season tix start at $250 (that's $25 per game)...ouch!
Who cares about what someone in freakin' Portland, Oregon thinks? Oh let me see, a lil agenda against some NFL teams so Portland can get one relocated there? Yeah right....
I didn't think the piece was that harsh or that far off. It deflected the most talking points to the Bucs, and brought in Miami. It was read like a best to worst scenario, Jax being best and Tampa being worst.
Raiders is definitely the blue collar football team of the bay area, but they are talking about sharing the new stadium with the Niners and the mayor of Oakland issued an RFP for designs of a new mixed-use stadium district (for both the As and the Raiders) and lots of big groups responded. Tickets actually start at about $400 for the season, which is still low, but the fan base is huge, the culture is well defined, the history is there, the Superbowls and other titles, and the ownership is tied to the area and passed down from generation to generation. I'd guess the Chargers are going to LA before the Raiders.
Quote from: simms3 on August 14, 2013, 11:36:34 AM
the fan base is huge, the culture is well defined, the history is there, the Superbowls and other titles, and the ownership is tied to the area and passed down from generation to generation.
You kinda made more of an argument for them to go to LA. Los Angeles has a huge Raiders fanbase, the culture is there etc. The Oakland to LA connection is unique given that LA would welcome them with open arms from that hiatus since they left; No other team would be accepted as easily with the LA fans as the Raiders. For Oakland's sake, they better get that stadium built. IMO Jax don't have no business on this list. People just continue to say what they say solely based off us playing in a small market, deceiving tarps, and the 2008 mortgage crisis situation.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 14, 2013, 11:18:09 AM
This is the funniest shit Ive read in a long time. None of it is fact based. Our owner has not committed to the town, City hall has not organized ticket selling drives? HUH? Did we not organize team teal a few years back? Has Khan not put his stamp on this franchise and committed to Jax? Whatever idiot wrote this needs to stop drinking when he's writing articles. None of what he wrote made sense.
+1000
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 14, 2013, 11:18:09 AM
This is the funniest shit Ive read in a long time. None of it is fact based. Our owner has not committed to the town, City hall has not organized ticket selling drives? HUH? Did we not organize team teal a few years back? Has Khan not put his stamp on this franchise and committed to Jax? Whatever idiot wrote this needs to stop drinking when he's writing articles. None of what he wrote made sense.
At least he got the blackout part right, which is, sadly, better than 90% of them do.
Quote from: simms3 on August 14, 2013, 11:36:34 AM
Raiders is definitely the blue collar football team of the bay area, but they are talking about sharing the new stadium with the Niners and the mayor of Oakland issued an RFP for designs of a new mixed-use stadium district (for both the As and the Raiders) and lots of big groups responded. Tickets actually start at about $400 for the season, which is still low, but the fan base is huge, the culture is well defined, the history is there, the Superbowls and other titles, and the ownership is tied to the area and passed down from generation to generation. I'd guess the Chargers are going to LA before the Raiders.
I don't want ANY team to move, and I know the Raiders have very loyal (and intense) fans all over the country and a very special place in NFL lore. But I don't understand why people are constantly hyping what a fantastic fan base they have when they 1) have blacked out 2/3 of their games since moving back to Oakland in 1995; 2) have reduced capacity in the Coliseum to below 60,000; and 3) proposed a stadium of slightly over 50,000 if they can't share with the 49ers. Considering how the Jaguar fan base gets misrepresented on a daily basis, "double standard" is a polite phrase for what comes to mind.
It is a double standard. I don't think Raider Nation and other Raider fan bases are held in high regard amongst the more professional acting upper middle/upper class Niner fan bases in SF and on the Peninsula, if that makes you feel better :) Though recently there has been a good bit of violence at Niner games too. Crazy people out here. Most people in the city just stick to an occasional Giants game :D And most people I know or encounter, myself included, know very little about sports in general...this isn't the SE (yet the Bay Area somehow supports more professional sports teams than any metro outside of NYC). "Cool" cities/regions that may be more apparently "politically correct" always get a pass. For instance, the Trayvon Martin case happening in FL probably didn't help all of the sports pundits' feelings towards the state...probably just added fuel to the fire.
I know what you mean. For whatever reason, I've always been an Oakland A's fan, so I interact electronically with Bay Area sports fans pretty regularly.
Quote from: simms3 on August 14, 2013, 01:25:34 PM
It is a double standard. I don't think Raider Nation and other Raider fan bases are held in high regard amongst the more professional acting upper middle/upper class Niner fan bases in SF and on the Peninsula, if that makes you feel better
Sure thing, White Bread. Niner fans are drinking tea and eating fucking crumpets while the Raider fans are swillling Keystone Light and noshing on some hot dogs. Fans are fans. You socio-economical status is lost once you step into the stadium. It's called being a FAN.
QuoteAnd most people I know or encounter, myself included, know very little about sports in general...
Not surprising. You can probably add quite a few more things to the list of things you have no clue about, but I'm sure you and "most of the people you know or encounter" are more than well versed in 'how to be a pretentious asshole'.
QuoteFor instance, the Trayvon Martin case happening in FL probably didn't help all of the sports pundits' feelings towards the state...probably just added fuel to the fire.
These 'pundits' (as you call them) don't seem to remotely give a shit about Trayvon Martin. Dude, the NFL pre-season has started. We could probably drop a nuke on Bangladesh and ESPN would still be talking about how many snaps Tebow took from the Wildcat in practice today.
In other words... please stick to the subject that you (and those you know or encounter) can discuss
using jargon and slang and numbers borrowed from your company's database that you saw as you were delivering the inter-office mail intelligently.
Quote from: simms3 on August 14, 2013, 11:36:34 AM
Tickets actually start at about $400 for the season,
not according to the radio ad which played during the Giants-Orioles broadcast this weekend
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 14, 2013, 03:53:53 PM
Quote from: simms3 on August 14, 2013, 01:25:34 PM
It is a double standard. I don't think Raider Nation and other Raider fan bases are held in high regard amongst the more professional acting upper middle/upper class Niner fan bases in SF and on the Peninsula, if that makes you feel better
Sure thing, White Bread. Niner fans are drinking tea and eating fucking crumpets while the Raider fans are swillling Keystone Light and noshing on some hot dogs. Fans are fans. You socio-economical status is lost once you step into the stadium. It's called being a FAN.
QuoteAnd most people I know or encounter, myself included, know very little about sports in general...
Not surprising. You can probably add quite a few more things to the list of things you have no clue about, but I'm sure you and "most of the people you know or encounter" are more than well versed in 'how to be a pretentious asshole'.
QuoteFor instance, the Trayvon Martin case happening in FL probably didn't help all of the sports pundits' feelings towards the state...probably just added fuel to the fire.
These 'pundits' (as you call them) don't seem to remotely give a shit about Trayvon Martin. Dude, the NFL pre-season has started. We could probably drop a nuke on Bangladesh and ESPN would still be talking about how many snaps Tebow took from the Wildcat in practice today.
In other words... please stick to the subject that you (and those you know or encounter) can discuss using jargon and slang and numbers borrowed from your company's database that you saw as you were delivering the inter-office mail intelligently.
Beautiful. Just
beautiful.
The Oakland gameday experience is awful. So is that stadium, the Club section and the Suites. Seriously the suite I was lucky enough to sit in was as nice as an AMC 24.
The best part is riding the BART to and from the game.
There is an interesting offset that occurs in the NFL when certain teams succeed and other teams struggle.
For years when I was in Chicago and the old Soldier Field was in play (53k seats), people would feast when the Indy Colts were on the schedule. Why? The Colts were stinkers and Bears fans would drive down to Indy to get comparatively cheap seats.
The same occurs in Detroit as well as Bears fan would drive over and grab seats. (and start a few fights) BTW: Detroit may be depopulated, but the suburbs are doing well.
Last year as I sat in the Jags season ticket section, I was surrounded by what else? Bear fans from all over Florida who could either not afford a trip or ticket in Chicago.
Every time the Giants play here, the hotels are full and airlines packed (I stood in line at JIA the morning after a Giants game talking with Theismann along the way through TSA)
My feedback on Tampa is to play teams at home that have larger fan bases, New York, Dallas, New England to help out when they have to play teams with lesser draws.
While Seattle may play well in Seattle, their fans don't travel well. Even when they made the Super Bowl, they couldn't even sell their allotment. They will make the trek to SF perhaps, not much further.
So while larger, more popular teams add PSL's and raise ticket prices, it actually pushes some fans to the less popular stadiums to see them play.
Quote from: Gators312 on August 14, 2013, 08:34:16 PM
The Oakland gameday experience is awful. So is that stadium, the Club section and the Suites. Seriously the suite I was lucky enough to sit in was as nice as an AMC 24.
The best part is riding the BART to and from the game.
I caught an A's game a couple months ago. Beautiful Friday evening in early May, a few rows up from the field on the 3rd base line, bought tickets from the kiosk out front for cheap and parked right in front of the stadium for $10... And hardly anyone was there! I'll admit the stadium is a dump... The scoreboard is the size of my tv at home... But still can't figure out why more fans don't go to the games?
Quote from: spuwho on August 14, 2013, 10:14:54 PM
There is an interesting offset that occurs in the NFL when certain teams succeed and other teams struggle.
For years when I was in Chicago and the old Soldier Field was in play (53k seats), people would feast when the Indy Colts were on the schedule. Why? The Colts were stinkers and Bears fans would drive down to Indy to get comparatively cheap seats.
The same occurs in Detroit as well as Bears fan would drive over and grab seats. (and start a few fights) BTW: Detroit may be depopulated, but the suburbs are doing well.
Last year as I sat in the Jags season ticket section, I was surrounded by what else? Bear fans from all over Florida who could either not afford a trip or ticket in Chicago.
Also cause tickets to a Bears game are nearly impossible to obtain at face value.
Quote from: spuwho on August 14, 2013, 10:14:54 PM
My feedback on Tampa is to play teams at home that have larger fan bases, New York, Dallas, New England to help out when they have to play teams with lesser draws.
So teams get to decide their schedule now?
Quote from: spuwho on August 14, 2013, 10:14:54 PM
While Seattle may play well in Seattle, their fans don't travel well. Even when they made the Super Bowl, they couldn't even sell their allotment. They will make the trek to SF perhaps, not much further.
Hm, where did you hear this? I couldn't find any info on it and it might have been true, but for many reasons it seems
extremely unlikely that they didn't sell their allotment of tickets. There's some kind of verbiage/miscommunication/loophole going on here.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 15, 2013, 01:42:53 AM
Quote from: spuwho on August 14, 2013, 10:14:54 PM
My feedback on Tampa is to play teams at home that have larger fan bases, New York, Dallas, New England to help out when they have to play teams with lesser draws.
So teams get to decide their schedule now?
LoL I am for that! Lets have the Jags play against KAN and CIN and TEN a little more!
Not good that we are off that list! Because we are not a major metro city, I think we are 52nd out of top 100 metro areas in the USA, in terms of population, but I know an MJer will correct me!
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 15, 2013, 08:44:43 AM
Not good that we are off that list!
Care to elaborate how leaving would be beneficial to the city or why it is bad we aren't on the list?
QuoteBecause we are not a major metro city, I think we are 52nd out of top 100 metro areas in the USA, in terms of population, but I know an MJer will correct me!
Have been at 40 since the last update on 7/1/12, haven't been in the 50's in a while. Think you're confusing metro area pop and city limits pop.