Oh my goodness. I had promised myself I would not watch tonight's council meeting because they frustrate me. Then I clicked on the meeting and heard what was going on. Man oh man, this issue about the SOE moving from Gateway to Imeson is tense, very tense. Corinne Brown showed up to speak in support of Gateway and about "disenfranchisement" of voters. Jerry Holland as always is composed but some have now intimated he is being untruthful, in fact some are saying not to believe him from the audience. Surprisingly no one on council hushed them up. Welllllllll, Denise Lee got up and unloaded on "politics" as usual on Corrine Brown and her crew. She said for the record she had been "threatened, left out of meetings and told it was not her time to run for an open senate seat. She went after the Mayor's administration for their backdoor discussions and dealings. She said she will not vote based on race. If there was ever a public proclamation as to the backdoor dealings of the Black power structure in Jacksonville, Denise Lee's words were it. Truly, we will have to get a transcript of tonight's public comments to share with the public. My jaw is hanging. Besides the accusation of improper procedure was thrown out there regarding no RFP for site change.
Right now Reggie Brown, following Warren Jones supports Gateway. Now Kimberly Daniels is talking, my guess is she is for Corrine's arguments as they are buds now. I guess I am correct as she is saying that the Gateway group has not been dealt with fairly. Yup, it's a mess people. So far word is this is going to go to Imeson. My prediction if it does, Corrine will not go quietly.
Some have wanted to say the Gateway SOE is an economic driver. Others say the new Gateway owner want's it to be a shopping center. Jerry Holland says that there are more empty stores than ever before right now. Some say it should remain an economic driver. Holland points out that there is only ever 3 to 5 employees employed there. Gaffney is now playing the race card and this isn't fair to the Gateway owner. He talks about insensativities.
Question called. On the Ballot....Gateway bill looses 7 to 12.
Apparently there is yet another piece of legislation that Reggie Brown is speaking about to use against Imeson. Standing by.....Oops. He hands Jerry Holland a backhanded insult. Now he is talking to African American's. This is not going to stop our voting! Oh my...here we go....He says all of this is not right. My guess is that Reggie Brown has further political aspirations and is showing his style off to Corrine Brown.
Now question called for Imeson. 2013-179 . 13 yes 6 opposed. Imeson it is.
This is now another sizable slap down to the Brown Administration who lobbied heavily for the Gateway site.
Thank you Diane for posting, the recent pure childishness of the council members really amazes me. It feels like "small town" politics.
And you mean the Imeson site right? Or was there an Emerson option on the south side?
Yes, Imeson. There was drama and more drama tonite to be sure. :o
For those who are not aware of the inside political drama going on regarding this issue in Jacksonville, this vote clearly speaks to a change in the views of Corrine Brown's influence on local politics. Appears to be fading. Yup "Coco" is not going to take this sitting down. I expect a legal challenge against the process used to get the Imeson site and lots of head knocking.
wow.
Thanks Diane.
For those of us not following closely, could you give us a quick briefing of the controversy?
Sure, will catch up tomorrow. :)
& btw, I hear great news for the shotguns.
Indeed 2013-397 designation for shotgun houses as historic is "history". Something about lots and lots of email. :)
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on August 13, 2013, 07:30:52 PM
Indeed 2013-397 designation for shotgun houses as historic is "history". Something about lots and lots of email. :)
nice.
I think going out an buying an existing urban core warehouse that has access to major bus routes makes the most sense long term. Since that wasn't an option, assuming everything holds up, Imeson does need better bus service because voter access to that site is about as limited as it can get. Gateway also needs a makeover. It's got great visibility to I-95 and basically anchors the Northside's largest commercial corridor. If we can get it right, it could help spur the revitalization of the entire Norwood strip. Yet, I'm not sure that makeover is sustainable with the old JCPenney space being used as a warehouse.
What happened with the hens?
Not sure about the hens, but here is some info on the Gateway issue.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-08-13/story/jacksonville-city-council-votes-move-elections-site-out-gateway
QuoteBy Steve Patterson
A divided Jacksonville City Council voted to move an elections center at Gateway Shopping Center to Imeson Park Boulevard, a shift that opponents condemned as discouraging minority voter involvement.
"It is clear to me that this is an attempt to disenfranchise African-American voters in Duval County," U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown told the council before it voted 13-6 to lease a site at One Imeson, a former Sears catalog center.
Brown, who has operated a campaign office elsewhere at Gateway, said she would look for ways to stop the shift to Imeson, including the chance of suing, but said her next move was unclear.
Duval County Supervisor of Elections Jerry Holland said he would try to lease space at Gateway for an early-voting site during next year's elections.
Holland has been paying $51,000 a month operating the center with no lease.
He told the council he could save $3.3 million by signing a 10-year lease at Imeson, though Gateway's owner, Terranova Corp., offered steep cuts in its current rent if the agency would stay.
"Taxpayers will save. That's the good thing about either proposal," Councilman Clay Yarborough said.
Holland and Mayor Alvin Brown's office disagreed over which would be the best deal for taxpayers, using different frames of measure that showed both options were within less than $100,000 over a decade.
The mayor hadn't decided Tuesday night whether to sign the lease ordinance, veto it or let it become law without signing, said Chris Hand, his chief of staff.
Holland said he wants to give Terranova 30 days' notice and leave Gateway by Sept. 30, staging the center's equipment at Imeson while work goes on to finish the warehouse site. He said the Imeson center should be ready to open by Feb. 1.
Holland said only three or four people work at the election center most of the year, making it mainly a warehousing operation where poll workers are trained before elections.
There's no reason moving the elections center should dampen voter turnout, Holland said. He said the city owns property within a half-mile that could be used for early voting if a deal can't be reach with Terranova. He said leasing space for early voting should cost only about $1,500 per year, because at early-voting sites, his office leases only a few hundred feet for a couple of weeks.
Gateway advocates saw the move more gravely.
"It's not necessary, it's not required, nor is it smart to move this facility," Councilman Reggie Brown said. "...Voter suppression is never a good thing, whether it's the appearance, or whether it's a fact."
Voting with Reggie Brown to oppose the move were Greg Anderson, John Crescimbeni, Kimberly Daniels, Johnny Gaffney and Warren Jones.
Gateway is in a largely African-American area a few miles from downtown and the veteran congresswoman said moving the elections center would send exclusionary messages to neighborhoods that have history of voter ballots being discounted.
Before the vote, about 25 ministers and members of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference stood behind Corrine Brown to show support for her arguments.
The congresswoman recounted the number of federally funded projects she has supported to Jacksonville's benefit, and asked lawmakers to consider that.
"Partnership. That's what government is all about," she said.
Asked later about the message the vote sent, she answered: "Lose my number."
steve.patterson@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-08-13/story/jacksonville-city-council-votes-move-elections-site-out-gateway#ixzz2bxmTP7In
And this video from New4Jax
http://www.news4jax.com/news/congresswoman-fights-against-vote-to-move-election-center/-/475880/21460730/-/qifqwv/-/index.html
Quote from: sheclown on August 14, 2013, 08:09:00 AM
What happened with the hens?
Still has to go to Planning Commission, LUZ and then the whole council
That is what happened last night Ben. Full council voted for the Imeson legislation. Now it goes to Alvin who can sign the legislation, veto it or let it sit without signing it until it becomes law on it's own. This one decision will be politically volatile for Mayor Brown and I do believe will impact his next election no matter what his decision is.
This goes beyond the building site and even beyond "disenfranchisement". What has folks worked up, especially Corrine is that her methods for moving minority voters and organizing them to action have now been understood as problematic to some. I see this really as a challenge to Corrine and her style of leadership which is pretty much "do as I say". She has been a backroom "Kingpin" in local politics for decades and that has made not only some political players who oppose her influence in Black politics very unhappy but others within the community. The chagrin that is felt toward her methodology is not just coming from the non Black community but from within it. There are many who have tired of Corrine telling everyone who should run for what office, when and what will happen to them and their careers if they do not do as they are told. She is her own little "demigod" in Jacksonville. This issue is forcing another that runs deep.
Quote: Denise Lee
The process has been political and was punctuated by Council member Lee's final comments before the vote. She voted in one of three committees that heard the legislation and sat in on the other two, each time in favor of One Imeson.
"It is unfortunate that the economic facts and merits of this issue have been lost in the devious game of politics," she told her colleagues.
She said the behind-the-scenes discussions have led to political threats on her from groups that favored Gateway, saying she would "suffer the consequences" if she didn't choose the site.
"Shame on anyone to turn this into a racial issue when it is absolutely not," Lee said
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540250
The hens....I tuned in during the end of this discussion. A couple ill-informed people talked about being overrun with loud messy hens, diseases, poop and shelters being overburdened with hens (Hello? Have they noticed the thouands dogs and cats people abandon? Or allow to run wild and poop on neighbors lawns?)
Others refuted that hens are quiet, go to bed without being asked at dark, are easy to care for, eat kitchen scraps and bugs, and are overall wonderful pets.
No vote last night, but if this is important to you, be there at the next public hearing. The opponents are weighing in heavily with misinformation and the very badly prepared Planning Department report which criticizes the ordinance without citing any data from other Florida cities who allow backyard hens. (At least according to Hens in Jax.) People are throwing around the "public safety" card as if hens are somehow more dangerous than pit bulls and rottweilers, which are not banned in Jacksonville.
If I had to choose between my neighbors having four hens or a large, cranky dog with (to use Crissie Cudd's joke) poop the size of Buicks...I'm choosing the hens.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on August 14, 2013, 01:24:10 PM
That is what happened last night Ben. Full council voted for the Imeson legislation. Now it goes to Alvin who can sign the legislation, veto it or let it sit without signing it until it becomes law on it's own. This one decision will be politically volatile for Mayor Brown and I do believe will impact his next election no matter what his decision is.
This goes beyond the building site and even beyond "disenfranchisement". What has folks worked up, especially Corrine is that her methods for moving minority voters and organizing them to action have now been understood as problematic to some. I see this really as a challenge to Corrine and her style of leadership which is pretty much "do as I say". She has been a backroom "Kingpin" in local politics for decades and that has made not only some political players who oppose her influence in Black politics very unhappy but others within the community. The chagrin that is felt toward her methodology is not just coming from the non Black community but from within it. There are many who have tired of Corrine telling everyone who should run for what office, when and what will happen to them and their careers if they do not do as they are told. She is her own little "demigod" in Jacksonville. This issue is forcing another that runs deep.
Diane-
I was responding to the question about hens.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on August 14, 2013, 01:31:23 PM
Quote: Denise Lee
The process has been political and was punctuated by Council member Lee's final comments before the vote. She voted in one of three committees that heard the legislation and sat in on the other two, each time in favor of One Imeson.
"It is unfortunate that the economic facts and merits of this issue have been lost in the devious game of politics," she told her colleagues.
She said the behind-the-scenes discussions have led to political threats on her from groups that favored Gateway, saying she would "suffer the consequences" if she didn't choose the site.
"Shame on anyone to turn this into a racial issue when it is absolutely not," Lee said
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540250
Who owns the shopping center?
I see Ben. Pardon me! :)
For everyone's enjoyment. Chicken Peace Keepers http://www.wimp.com/chickenpolice/
Quote from: sheclown on August 14, 2013, 02:28:35 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on August 14, 2013, 01:31:23 PM
Quote: Denise Lee
The process has been political and was punctuated by Council member Lee's final comments before the vote. She voted in one of three committees that heard the legislation and sat in on the other two, each time in favor of One Imeson.
"It is unfortunate that the economic facts and merits of this issue have been lost in the devious game of politics," she told her colleagues.
She said the behind-the-scenes discussions have led to political threats on her from groups that favored Gateway, saying she would "suffer the consequences" if she didn't choose the site.
"Shame on anyone to turn this into a racial issue when it is absolutely not," Lee said
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540250
I believe she threatened to take her favors elsewhere. "Lose my number"? Usually statements like this are made in whispers, not broadcast city-wide.
HELLO! lol Funny but not.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 13, 2013, 09:13:25 PM
I think going out an buying an existing urban core warehouse that has access to major bus routes makes the most sense long term. Since that wasn't an option, assuming everything holds up, Imeson does need better bus service because voter access to that site is about as limited as it can get. Gateway also needs a makeover. It's got great visibility to I-95 and basically anchors the Northside's largest commercial corridor. If we can get it right, it could help spur the revitalization of the entire Norwood strip. Yet, I'm not sure that makeover is sustainable with the old JCPenney space being used as a warehouse.
Isn't the Imeson site only going to be used as a warehouse and not an office? If it is only going to be used as a warehouse to store equipment and not act as a voting location, it really doesn't need bus service does it?
Quote from: carpnter on August 14, 2013, 03:31:33 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 13, 2013, 09:13:25 PM
I think going out an buying an existing urban core warehouse that has access to major bus routes makes the most sense long term. Since that wasn't an option, assuming everything holds up, Imeson does need better bus service because voter access to that site is about as limited as it can get. Gateway also needs a makeover. It's got great visibility to I-95 and basically anchors the Northside's largest commercial corridor. If we can get it right, it could help spur the revitalization of the entire Norwood strip. Yet, I'm not sure that makeover is sustainable with the old JCPenney space being used as a warehouse.
Isn't the Imeson site only going to be used as a warehouse and not an office? If it is only going to be used as a warehouse to store equipment and not act as a voting location, it really doesn't need bus service does it?
Yes, it will be to store the equipment but could also be used as a voting site. Jerry Holland went on record saying that Gateway could still be an early voting site if the council provides funding for such. Corrine is bemoaning the fact that her kingdom anchored by her office at Gateway is being disassembled.
Quote
He told Council the center is not an economic engine for the Gateway neighborhood – a position Corrine Brown and several Council members argued – and that the Gateway site could still be an early voting site should Council approve and Terranova Corp., Gateway's owner, is reasonable in negotiating short-term rent.
Holland after the vote said the early voting site would be needed for about 16 days, require about 400 square feet and a ballpark rate should be "no more than $1,500" total for the terms.
Corrine was definitely issuing threats of not "delivering" as much if the vote went against Gateway. I was amazed at how open and blunt she was about it.
Isn't that about the time most people in power start to really lose their grasp?
When they actually believe that they are truly above the laws.
She's probably being so open and blunt because she probably truly believes that there won't be any repercussions from it. Will there? Time will tell.
Never underestimate the power of "Coco". She along with her new sidekick Kimberly Daniels have a new and "powerful" play book at their disposal. Look out Jacksonville. Hurry on over to Walmart ya'll, get your copy and break that "Demon" barrier impacting our leadership. :o ::) ;D(http://i.imgur.com/HbabwyW.jpg)
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on August 14, 2013, 02:31:18 PM
I see Ben. Pardon me! :)
For everyone's enjoyment. Chicken Peace Keepers http://www.wimp.com/chickenpolice/
No worries!
is it really appropriate to call her "Coco" Diane?
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 14, 2013, 05:09:37 PM
is it really appropriate to call her "Coco" Diane?
Well gosh, considering this question is coming from someone going by the screen name tufsu it's hard to say. Lol Coco is Corrine's nick name, I hardly think that is offensive to her or anyone else. Honestly tufsu, you focus on the weirdest stuff sometimes.
I was just asking, as it could be seen as a racial term
and fyi...tufsu stands for Temple University - Florida State University
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 14, 2013, 07:43:11 PM
I was just asking, as it could be seen as a racial term
and fyi...tufsu stands for Temple University - Florida State University
???
Being that CC actually has her real info posted that she'd probably be a little more PC with her posts? Kind of petty to suggest it, and this coming from a guy who generally doesn't give two
shits poo-poos what he posts.
Not that she, you or anyone else needs my opinion on the subject, but damn. When did we become so sensitive to everything?
I appreciate cc s local knowledge.
^ Thanks NRW...I always appreciate your insight...in this case, I asked some co-workers before I posted the question....and I'm glad tgo hear it is a nickname that Corinne Brown is ok with
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 14, 2013, 08:17:34 PM
^ Thanks NRW...I always appreciate your insight...in this case, I asked some co-workers before I posted the question....and I'm glad tgo hear it is a nickname that Corinne Brown is ok with
Lord have mercy. lol, lol, lol Tufsu1, you do put your own defensive and negative internal spin on things and it's really a very odd habit you seem to have. Your comments about Coco's nickname (which she was not given by me but by her "girls") as being "racist" is really just over the top and rather bizarre to tell the truth. I frankly don't know what to think about your commentary any more other than to say your perceptions of what I personally say are just way, way off the mark. :o
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 14, 2013, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 14, 2013, 07:43:11 PM
I was just asking, as it could be seen as a racial term
and fyi...tufsu stands for Temple University - Florida State University
???
Being that CC actually has her real info posted that she'd probably be a little more PC with her posts? Kind of petty to suggest it, and this coming from a guy who generally doesn't give two shits poo-poos what he posts.
Not that she, you or anyone else needs my opinion on the subject, but damn. When did we become so sensitive to everything?
Damn is right. lol
Here is a piece by Jim Bailey with regard to the selection of the SOE site. He basically is saying time to move on. I know what he means but the reality is that "Team Corrine" is just building steam to make a bigger to do about the selection of the site. She currently has a group fired up over voter disenfranchisement and has a online petition to support her efforts to keep the SOE where it is. She is talking lawsuits as well. The problem as I see it is that the selection of this site was outside of proper city procedure which requires an RFP of some sort. This is an issue the new owners of the Gateway center may take up in the courts. While there is certainly an effort nationally, statewide and locally to purge voter records, this particular fight over the SOE location is really not about that. There is no reason that Gateway cannot hold early elections if the city allows the funding to do so. Sorry to say that this is not about keeping voters from the polls, it is about Corrine Brown's will, as it is in most things Corrine.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540284
QuoteJames F. Bailey Jr.
Much of the media coverage after a 13-6 Council vote to move an election center from Gateway Shopping Center to One Imeson Center focused on accusations of racial disenfranchisement by U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown and some Council members.
The remarks that didn't receive as much attention are those of several Council members who had plenty to say about the unusual process that led to the decision after almost two years of wrangling, maneuvering and negotiating.
"This is the worst way possible one can invest to purchase real estate," said Council member Bill Bishop, who voted for the move to One Imeson.
Bishop echoed others who thought the decision should have been made through a Request for Proposal, the normal procurement process, and handled by Mayor Alvin Brown.
Instead, Council members became engaged in the debate back in June 2011.
That eventually meant months of loosely monitored competition between three developers that included submissions of new proposals almost right up to the Council vote.
Finally, it came down to a choice between Gateway's new owner, Terranova Corp., and One Imeson landlord, GIV Imeson LLC.
Council member Warren Jones, who favored the center staying at Gateway, called the process "convoluted" and said, "This is not the way we should be doing business in the City of Jacksonville."
Council member Robin Lumb voted for the move to One Imeson, but not before criticizing, "This whole entire process is completely improper."
In response to a question from Lumb, Terranova Chairman Stephen Bittel said he thought Council's action was outside the RFP process and might violate state purchasing laws.
Even Corrine Brown was critical of Alvin Brown, saying "he should have handled it. It's not the Council, it's the mayor's job."
She intimated a lawsuit might be in the making.
Chris Hand, Alvin Brown's chief of staff, said the process was "contaminated" when Council members became involved and legislation was filed.
Council member Reggie Brown said Supervisor of Elections Jerry Holland, who wanted to move to One Imeson, "steered this process."
"I don't know if this looks like murky water to you guys, but it looks like it to me," Reggie Brown told his Council colleagues.
The real question: Why did Council have to insert itself into an issue that normally — and rightfully — is handled by the mayor's office?
Were Council members being meddlesome or were they filling a leadership vacuum?
The ball is now back in Alvin Brown's court.
He can sign the legislation, let it become law without his signature or can veto what the Council passed, which could be a big political risk.
This Council already has handed Brown three big defeats in its first two meetings of the new Council year. It killed his pension reform plan, voted for a tentative property tax increase in the new budget and moved the elections center from Gateway.
An override of his veto is predictable. It would take a 13-6 supermajority vote — the same vote that passed the legislation last week.
Speaking as an Africian American, Corrine sickens me sometimes. This has nothing to with race or the "black vote". Gateway is a dump and they dont want to do nothing to the building. And the settle is just supposed settle for that? Imerson is still on the Northside, and we have the SOE downtown as well. Im sure they will not have an issue going to vote. She is such a wig wearing idioit sometimes ::)
Duval, You are correct. This is not about voter disenfranchisement. The facts are this. Folks can still vote at Gateway should there be early voting sites set up, it can certainly be one of those sites. The City needs to reinstate funding again this budget for all early voting sites. If voters can still vote at Gateway to say they are disenfranchised is a bunch of "hooey". The reality is that no one who want's to vote can be disenfranchised in Duval because they can vote via the mail. In fact almost any services one needs via the SOE can be done online, over the phone or by mail. Transportation or lack of access to a structure does not stop someone from voting. That's the reality.
What Corrine is doing has to do with Corrine's own agenda, which in part revolves around some assurances she made to those now owning the center that they could count on her keeping the SOE office in the Gateway, which translates to a sizable monthly rental fee paid by the City which is "sure" money. She is so dadgum mad because she did not get her way and as such was unable to make good her promises to some business individuals. Corrine is not however the only local politician to benefit from having influence at Gateway. With the removal of the SOE and that fat monthly payment to Gateway, Corrine's influence there has been seriously impacted.
There is definitely an effort at the national, state and local levels by partisan politicians to "purge" voters. Most of those actions are to my eye, highly questionable and need to be given a very serious look. Rick Scott for instance is up to no good and would love to lose some of the impact of the minority vote. This situation however is not about purging voters or disenfranchisement. It is rather Corrine using her long standing method of doing political business which is when things don't go her way, she cries racism. It's like the little boy who cried wolf all the time in that old fairy tale. After awhile, people just stop believing in the sincerity of the person making the claim.
I will say this much about Corrine Brown. She will pull out all of the stops and fight like crazy to get her way. There was already a lawsuit filed by the Gateway people against the City/SOE because the city council voted to give the contract to the folks who own a building on Emerson. While that case is currently being heard, Corrine Brown's good friend, Pastor Gundy has filed another suit along with a group of black voters claiming the move has disenfranchised the Black community. The case is supposed to be heard this Thursday. I don't expect this suit to go very far though as the SOE has already gone on record to say that Gateway will definitely be an early voting site. I am going to go out on a limb here and say this will not make Denise Lee happy but in the end, I think the complaint will be thrown out. If voting takes place at Gateway it is hard to claim disenfranchisement.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-10-02/story/black-voters-file-federal-suit-over-gateway-elections-move
This just in. Gateways request for an injunction to stop the SOE from relocating to Emerson has been "denied" by the sitting Judge. I expect the Gundy complaint to meet the same fate.