In a few minutes Sam Mousa will be presenting his report to Finance Committee, containing his recommendations and figures.
The proposal will be quite surprising to many.
Metrojacksonville has obtained an advance copy of the presentation and will be posting them shortly.
Since Courthouses should reflect their communities I have real dred over this building. I can envision our "Jacksonville school of advanced urban living," coming to grips and using the moonscape downtown for 654 Double-Wide office trailers! What's the old saying, "if the shoe fits..."
Ocklawaha
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/lakelander/Slide2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/lakelander/Slide3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/lakelander/Slide4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/lakelander/Slide5.jpg)
Mousa believes it will cost $350 million to build a new criminal/civil courthouse, renovate the old federal courthouse for the State Attorney’s Office and use some space in the Ed Ball building for the Public Defender’s Office. The $64.3 million spent to date is also included. Peyton asked for $395 million last year.
http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/03/31/council-being-asked-to-ok-new-350-million-courthouse-budget/
This is a rendering of the last proposed courthouse. I still believe the cost could be reduced more by going vertical and taking advantage of nearby vacant buildings (like the old JEA Tower) that are available.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/14620270.jpg)
Lake, how did you get that great information if the presentation was today? did you go to the meeting?
Stephendare forwarded me a power point presentation he received from City Hall. All I did was convert the power point into a jpg and upload the images to the site.
It doesnt look like we are going to get a verticle courthouse. But, thank God Mousa is on this team! he is so right....I only hope the City Council listens to him.
I hope the council listens, but balks on the price. There's still some trimming to do on this turkey.
Good to see some movement but the image above is no where near ideal to me.
If the rendering shown is the plan moving forward:
1. The amount of land taken up.
I still believe, if this structure is already 7 stories, taking it up 14 and reducing the footprint by half, allows for more land that could be used to attract private complementing development. The money made from the sale or subsidy (if it can be used to convince Fl Coastal to move downtown, for example), will come in the form of property taxes from vibrant uses attracted to vacant and underutilized properties in the area.
2. The Design
I believe costs can be reduced by constructing a utilitarian structure, as opposed to attempt to recreate a design style from the past using modern building materials. I also believe with a good design team, its possible to develop an attractive structure with a limited budget.
3. The use of existing buildings
It would be good to take advantage of the old JEA Building, if feasible. Its use could cut down the size needed for our complex.
4. The size
I'm not sold on the fact that we need a courthouse this big. Counties that are larger than Duval and growing faster than us, are constructing smaller buildings for a fraction of what ours is coming in at.
Quote from: stephendare on March 31, 2008, 02:25:13 PM
btw, I would like to stand by my original post from an earlier thread predicting that the costs would be found to be 70 million cheaper, if not more. http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,1612.msg13007.html#msg13007
Would you still stand by your even earlier post that the courthouse project was dead?
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 31, 2008, 09:44:21 PM
Quote from: stephendare on March 31, 2008, 02:25:13 PM
btw, I would like to stand by my original post from an earlier thread predicting that the costs would be found to be 70 million cheaper, if not more. http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,1612.msg13007.html#msg13007
Would you still stand by your even earlier post that the courthouse project was dead?
i was wondering the same thing. i think it was that the "courthouse is as good as dead" according to "Blockbuster new revelations from City Council Insiders"...
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/709/114/
--reportossiper
I am happy to see some progress on this and hope we can get started soon. Mousa clearly has a way of cutting the Gordian Knot. It is a manly talent which alas Peyton will never possess. Too bad the design of the building is terrible though, if the rendering above is accurate.
Quote from: RiversideGator on April 01, 2008, 12:26:52 AM
I am happy to see some progress on this and hope we can get started soon. Mousa clearly has a way of cutting the Gordian Knot. It is a manly talent which alas Peyton will never possess. Too bad the design of the building is terrible though, if the rendering above is accurate.
You know what, I'm happy about this too. :D Mousa is cool 8). However, I really don't care how they design the new courthouse. Just let it get built. And we all due respect, I'm not against Mayor Peyton. I'm willing to forgive his mistakes. He's not perfect...neither are we!
QuoteHowever, I really don't care how they design the new courthouse. Just let it get built.
If this is the case, why not stick to the original budget and put up a bland, but efficient box?
Tulsa Federal Courthouse(http://www.downtownrising.com/projects/images/courthouse.jpg)
$100 million for 367,188sf. Ground breaking 2009.
I'm not sure we need this proposal either, but here's the thing - Despite the fact that cost seems extremely high (given Charlotte's recent courthouse for like $180 million or something), and the site plan is shit, I do trust Mousa, because he has a history of delivering and managing large projects.
Remember, 65 million has already been wasted, making the building cost 285 million
Quote from: thelakelander on April 01, 2008, 08:40:22 AM
If this is the case, why not stick to the original budget and put up a bland, but efficient box?
I think many of us wouldn't feel to bad if the criminals had to go to court in a bland but efficient box. We send our children to school in trailers parked out side of over crowded schools. Who do you think should be first on the world class facilities list?
Quote from: Steve on April 01, 2008, 09:26:40 AM
I'm not sure we need this proposal either, but here's the thing - Despite the fact that cost seems extremely high (given Charlotte's recent courthouse for like $180 million or something), and the site plan is shit, I do trust Mousa, because he has a history of delivering and managing large projects.
Remember, 65 million has already been wasted, making the building cost 285 million
Remember a good part of the 65 million is in land and the demolition of buildings to make way for the structure. Whatever that number is, is only lost if the courthouse project is moved to another site. Btw, I'm not saying Mousa isn't doing a good job or that I don't appreciate him trimming this budget by $100 million. I just believe we can trim more and possibly move forward with the number already approved, if really pushed.
It doesn't sound like they are that far along. I seriously doubt taking a month or so to develop a more efficient solution will cause the price to jump back to $400 million (its not like the economy is going to get better anytime soon). It also does not mean starting over from ground zero. I seriously believe a utilitarian structure could be done with the money already set aside. It won't look like the Taj Mahal, but we wouldn't have to risk delaying other needed capital improvement projects by borrowing additional money.