Jacksonville is ranked as the #1 city for young people (25-34) to find jobs. I am just about out of this age range now and wondered if everyone agreed/disagreed with this article.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Media/Slideshow/2012/01/12/10-Best-Cities-for-Young-People-to-Find-Jobs.aspx (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Media/Slideshow/2012/01/12/10-Best-Cities-for-Young-People-to-Find-Jobs.aspx)
Quote1. Jacksonville, FL
This military-centric North Florida city might not be the first one that springs to mind, but its low unemployment rate of 2.7 percent in the city and 3.2 percent in the greater area for 25-34-year-olds makes it a clear winner (that's more than 7 percent below the national rate of 9.4 percent for that age group). The city also had the eighth lowest unemployment for 20-24 year-olds (8.3 percent). Why so many jobs? Three naval air stations supply a steady number of noncivilian jobs, which trickles down to the rest of the community. Plus, the city is home to the largest Toyota distributor in the U.S., and has even seen a recent renaissance in filmmaking, satisfying those creative types.
Not in the planning industry. I think something like this would vary, depending on the profession.
Very interesting and extremely hard to believe. I've always been underwhelmed by the trickle down effect of the military economy in Jax (I suppose relative to Norfolk, Seattle, San Antonio or San Diego where there are huge military hospitals and very clear trickle down support industries, such as shipbuilding, major manufacturing, services, USAA, etc). Even the VA in Jax is so tiny for a city of its size, let alone a military city where supposedly there are ~150,000 retired vets in the area.
"Three Naval Air Stations"...am I missing two?
"A renaissance in filmmaking"...MetroJacksonville? Highlight? That's news to me! I know Atlanta, Baton Rouge/NOLA, Nashville, and Miami have seen increases in filmmaking and production, but haven't heard of anything being filmed or produced in Jax!
Largest Toyota Distributor...yes, well related to the port, which as we all know is having many issues of its own as it loses out to Miami, Savannah and Charleston.
I don't "doubt" the article per se, and I'm not trying to be a negative nancy, but this list is apparently more poorly done than a Forbes list. I don't know anyone who thinks of Jax as a job-haven for the 25-34 age group. Maybe the post 40 age group once you have job location flexibility or can work from home, and you have kids. But single young profs? Historically the city has been the antithesis of the young, single prof working city.
These "best of studies" are usually done to drive hits to websites. Oftentimes they have very little credibility or methodology behind them. Like Simms pointed out, you can tell from the writeup that it's not that legit.
And I just wanted to add that the robust Bay Area economy, especially as it relates to tech, was born because of the military, which has done wonders for many cities, just not yet Jacksonville to any significant degree. State and city leaders either need to shit or get off the pot with NE FL's military presence...because aside from direct employment of ~20,000 non-civilian workers and maybe another 10-20,000 civilian base workers, I see little to no impact for the overall economy. All of the city's defense contractors (such as Armour Holdings) have been bought up. BAE has a "presence", but trivial.
San Antonio now houses huge military services, such as USAA's HQ, and is the leading city of defense contracting and the military health network, with 3 or 4 significantly sized military related hospitals where vets fly from all over for treatment.
San Diego is just massive operation, easily 10-20x the operation found in Jacksonville. Military retirement services is also large there and translates to an entire industry, fueling real estate (housing, retail, office). Not to mention the huge Navy Hospital there and the related industries it fuels.
Seattle still has a huge presence - multiple large hospitals, some defense contracting, a military tech presence that fuels and feeds its overall tech industry, U-dub related programs that tie into the military, Bremerton, which is huge, etc etc.
Norfolk has the largest shipbuilding operation in NA still, mostly tied to the military in some way, not to mention the Navy Hospital, the various huge bases, etc etc.
And anyone who has spent any time in SF/Bay Area can more easily be touched by the military in some way than in NE FL. 250,000 workers came to build ships during WWII and the military maintained a large base (at Alameda and in Richmond I believe) up until the 80s or so. There are still dozens of ships parked at Alameda, and the entire local booming economy can be traced back to manufacturing and defense contracting (especially with regards to Tech and how the military used Berkeley and Stanford and still does) from WWII on. Alameda City, ~75,000, is on an island that feels like the entire place is a military town (I'm there routinely...almost went today actually).
Sorry Jax...you gotta do something to maintain yourself as a military town...heck Charleston is a huge military town (maybe discreetly larger than Jax now). Boeing. Several bases. Shipbuilding. Defense contracting. Port. Larger military hospital network.
Shit. Or get off the pot. Right?
It's really amusing that people around here are incredulous when these silly things say something positive, but take them at face value when they're negative. Too typical.
Quote from: CityLife on July 23, 2013, 11:42:00 AM
These "best of studies" are usually done to drive hits to websites. Oftentimes they have very little credibility or methodology behind them. Like Simms pointed out, you can tell from the writeup that it's not that legit.
Would be better if this list was titled "Cities with the lowest unemployment numbers for the 25-34 age range." Seems that was the entire methodology (and only within city limits, too). I think all the other info provided was just peripheral and not pertinent to their rankings.
Quote from: Tacachale on July 23, 2013, 12:36:43 PM
It's really amusing that people around here are incredulous when these silly things say something positive, but take them at face value when they're negative. Too typical.
Was this directed at me or Simms or both? Sorry, but I don't just blankly look at something and say "yippeee super, we're the best!". There is zero qualitative analysis in that "study". Sure, we may have a 2.7% unemployment rate for young people, but how many of those are good jobs? How much is that number skewed up by having tens of thousands of military here? How many young people are moving here from around the country for jobs? How many young people don't even live here because they can't find quality jobs?
Come on Tacachale, you're better than that.
Quote from: CityLife on July 23, 2013, 12:48:53 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on July 23, 2013, 12:36:43 PM
It's really amusing that people around here are incredulous when these silly things say something positive, but take them at face value when they're negative. Too typical.
Was this directed at me or Simms or both? Sorry, but I don't just blankly look at something and say "yippeee super, we're the best!". There is zero qualitative analysis in that "study". Sure, we may have a 2.7% unemployment rate for young people, but how many of those are good jobs? How much is that number skewed up by having tens of thousands of military here? How many young people are moving here from around the country for jobs? How many young people don't even live here because they can't find quality jobs?
Come on Tacachale, you're better than that.
Not directed at anyone in particular, just the peculiar tendency of many around here to treat positive assessments with much more skepticism than than they do for equally dubious negative assessments. We probably rank pretty highly in the list of cities with out-of-proportion inferiority complexes.
Being realistic doesn't mean someone has an inferiority complex...like Maximus said, this should be called "Cities with the lowest unemployment numbers for the 25-34 age range", not "10 best cities for young people to find jobs".
I understand where you are coming Tacachale. I get that feeling many times too.
Quote from: simms3 on July 23, 2013, 11:30:42 AM
"Three Naval Air Stations"...am I missing two?
I'm sure they are erroneously referring to Naval Station Mayport and Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay as "Naval Air Stations."
Oh, that very distant far away Mayport FL, yup it's definitely out of Jax's metro. SMH ::)
Quote from: I-10east on July 23, 2013, 04:04:02 PM
Oh, that very distant far away Mayport FL, yup it's definitely out of Jax's metro. SMH ::)
I think they are referring to Cecil Field, which was shut down more than a decade ago. Also, JF Family Enterprises and Air Supply Depot (there are 4 times as many people in this age group employed in financial services in Jacksonville than naval civillian contractors, for instance) aren't contributing to those figures in any significant way like the article implies. Whatever depth the author tried to go into, was clearly not researched very well.
That said, I have no problems with the actual unemployment figures. Just b/c the unemployment figures are low, doesnt mean that they are high for specific industries... I don't think some of the negative comments are putting that in perspective.
To me, this report solidifies every other study done showing that young professionals with college degrees by and large do not suffer from the unemployment problems that other demographics face. If anything, this offers even more fuel to the argument that the City should re-invest in the types of things that make Jacksonville an attractive place for college-educated young professionals.
Look no further than the thoughts of former City of Jacksonville Planning Director (now the State of Florida's Director of Community Development at the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity) Bill Killingsworth:
QuoteCEOs for Cities published a report they call the Talent Dividend. Their research indicates that for every %1 increase in college attainment there is a $763 increase in per capita income. Some simple math indicates that just striving for average would net 2.5 billion dollars for Duval County annually. That's a powerful argument for Jacksonville adding a vibrant urban product to it's real estate portfolio.
Quote from: Tacachale on July 23, 2013, 12:58:40 PM
Not directed at anyone in particular, just the peculiar tendency of many around here to treat positive assessments with much more skepticism than than they do for equally dubious negative assessments. We probably rank pretty highly in the list of cities with out-of-proportion inferiority complexes.
+1000
Quote from: I-10east on July 23, 2013, 04:04:02 PM
Oh, that very distant far away Mayport FL, yup it's definitely out of Jax's metro. SMH ::)
Their point was that those aren't Naval Air Stations. not that it's not in/near Jax.
Quote from: fieldafm on July 23, 2013, 04:45:34 PM
To me, this report solidifies every other study done showing that young professionals with college degrees by and large do not suffer from the unemployment problems that other demographics face. If anything, this offers even more fuel to the argument that the City should re-invest in the types of things that make Jacksonville an attractive place for college-educated young professionals.
Look no further than the thoughts of former City of Jacksonville Planning Director (now the State of Florida's Director of Community Development at the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity) Bill Killingsworth:
QuoteCEOs for Cities published a report they call the Talent Dividend. Their research indicates that for every %1 increase in college attainment there is a $763 increase in per capita income. Some simple math indicates that just striving for average would net 2.5 billion dollars for Duval County annually. That's a powerful argument for Jacksonville adding a vibrant urban product to it's real estate portfolio.
Great point! And insight from Killingsworth.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on July 24, 2013, 12:20:56 AM
Quote from: I-10east on July 23, 2013, 04:04:02 PM
Oh, that very distant far away Mayport FL, yup it's definitely out of Jax's metro. SMH ::)
Their point was that those aren't Naval Air Stations. not that it's not in/near Jax.
You're right, my bad. That was such a poorly written article, I got confused in the backwash LOL
Quote from: simms3 on July 23, 2013, 11:30:42 AM
Very interesting and extremely hard to believe. I've always been underwhelmed by the trickle down effect of the military economy in Jax (I suppose relative to Norfolk, Seattle, San Antonio or San Diego where there are huge military hospitals
Of these four cities, only one of them has a VA Hospital, San Diego. I'm not gonna even trip on Norfolk as Hampton, VA (VA Hospital location) is only like 16 miles away. The closest VA Hospital to San Antonio is Kerrville, TX up I-10 West, about 65 miles roughly the same distance from Jacksonville to Gainesville's VA. The closest VA Hospital to Seattle is at a considerable distance, 164 miles down I-5 in Vancouver, WA (Portland, OR's metro; The other two Wash VA Hospitals are way in Walla Walla, and Spokane)
Although most heavily populated cities have VA Hospitals in the US, it's not a 'gimme'. It was all controlled by the Feds a long time ago by most accounts. So it's not like the higher ups in Jax are opposed to receiving a VA Hospital. As for hospital transit here in Jax, the Disabled American Veterans (DAV) does a wonderful job transporting vets (VIA van) to and from their appointments or hospital stays in G-ville and Lake City. I used it a couple of times.
Quote from: I-10east on July 24, 2013, 01:17:40 AM
Quote from: simms3 on July 23, 2013, 11:30:42 AM
Very interesting and extremely hard to believe. I've always been underwhelmed by the trickle down effect of the military economy in Jax (I suppose relative to Norfolk, Seattle, San Antonio or San Diego where there are huge military hospitals
Of these four cities, only one of them has a VA Hospital, San Diego. I'm not gonna even trip on Norfolk as Hampton, VA (VA Hospital location) is only like 16 miles away. The closest VA Hospital to San Antonio is Kerrville, TX up I-10 West, about 65 miles roughly the same distance from Jacksonville to Gainesville's VA. The closest VA Hospital to Seattle is at a considerable distance, 164 miles down I-5 in Vancouver, WA (Portland, OR's metro; The other two Wash VA Hospitals are way in Walla Walla, and Spokane)
Although most heavily populated cities have VA Hospitals in the US, it's not a 'gimme'. It was all controlled by the Feds a long time ago by most accounts. So it's not like the higher ups in Jax are opposed to receiving a VA Hospital. As for hospital transit here in Jax, the Disabled American Veterans (DAV) does a wonderful job transporting vets (VIA van) to and from their appointments or hospital stays in G-ville and Lake City. I used it a couple of times.
This is getting off topic (my fauly), but you were trying so desperately to disprove me for some reason. Mincing of words and you're so wrong it's worth noting.
Naval Medical Center is in Portsmouth, VA, less than 2 miles from Norfolk. It has 9 area branches, thousands of beds at its primary location, robust research, etc etc. You're right that technically the main VA hospital in the metro is in Hampton, 16 miles away. It has 468 beds! (Jacksonville's big new VA center is outpatient and has "50+" beds).
San Antonio is the indisputable hub of medical healthcare research and care, as well as defense contracting. SA has Brooke Army Medical Center (BAMC), which is 2.1 million SF and 425 beds (basically similar in size to St. Vincent's or Baptist or Shands). This is the military's largest inpatient medical hospital, and it's within 5 miles of downtown. Also within a few miles of DT is the 59th Medical Wing of the US Military, which is the Air Force's premium healthcare, medical, research, and readiness wing in the US with the DoD's only Trauma I Center in the country. This hospital alone employs 6,000 military and civilian employees. The VA Hospital is also IN SA, on Fort Sam Houston
(1,112 beds!!!), mere miles from downtown. So you're wrong there. SA's big military trickle downs aren't just in healthcare, but in organizations (USAA...look it up as it's HQ'd there, huge, and in actual military and defense contracting).
Having driven I-10W out of SA, there is nothing 65 miles to the west. Absolutely nothing. All of the military operations are within an area that is equivalent to the beltway around Jacksonville.
Seattle has Madigan Hospital (205 beds), Naval Hospital Bremerton (72 beds), VA Puget Sound - which is not in Seattle proper but a few miles outside in metro (474 beds), and Western Regional Medical Command. Naval Base Kitsap 13,000 military employees, 13,000 DoD employees, and 10,000 civilian employees. From what I can find, Mayport has 14,000 military employees and 1,200 civilian employees.
I won't even bring up San Diego's military medical facilities...aside from VA they also have official medical hospitals and research centers with programs tied to UCSD, a top-rated university in this country.
It's not entirely about "VA Hospitals" (in which case you're way wrong in your infor...), but the fact that these other military cities and still others not mentioned have huge supporting industries that aren't found in Jax.
^^^My bad, I got owned, what can I say LOL. The VA's site had 'VA Health Care System' listed for many of those large city VA Hospitals, but for whatever reason, they weren't listed under 'VA Medical Center' (where I was getting my 'info' from) Weirdly G-ville had 'North FL South GA Veterans Heath System' under 'VA Health Care system' fair enough, but ALSO the G-ville VA Hospital was listed under 'VA Medical Center' unlike those other cities which confused the hell outta me.
That VA Hospital in Kerrville, TX is 65 miles NW of San Antonio (after SA, I-10 goes up NW). Jax definitely could use more significant supporting infrastructure. I'll own up to being wrong. It's been a very crappy start of the week for me anyway, and that misinformation post is only fitting.
^^^Oh, Stephen, because surely you have never done that before. Are you right all of the time? If not, when was the last time that you owned up to YOUR mistakes? *crickets*
Quote from: stephendare on July 24, 2013, 10:55:32 AM
you came on pretty strong only to find out you were mistaken.
No sh*t Stephen. I thought that I already said that I was wrong (something you will never say). Only you Stephen had to rub it in unnecessarily, no one else only you, way to go!!!!
Oh folks...no need to bicker, I was totally trashed when I wrote my response anyway and have no recollection of it! I think the bottom line is that the OP article states Jacksonville's military presence as one of the features that keeps 25-34 unemployment low, and that may be, but the city's status as a "military town" is a bit overblown in my opinion when the bases keep shrinking and there are no major supporting industries to note that I can find as I can for other so-called military towns.
Having a large military hospital presence - lots of 25-34 year old nurses for instance. We have a shitty VA center that's an outpatient center that is ugly and replaced a block full of historic buildings that could have been rehabbed. Even relative to Jacksonville's size, the VA center is small, let alone the fact that Jacksonville supposedly has one of the largest vet populations in the country and is a military city. It's just odd, that's all.
The military presence in the Bay Area gifted the area with its tech industry, which is *the* quintessential 20-34 employer for instance.
What are the largest employers for professionals of this age? Financial services and healthcare?
^I believe it goes military & attached jobs, despite Simms' perceptions, then financial services, then health services. I'll have to check. That basically tracks with all age groups; young people may just be comparatively over-represented in those fields.