Seattle had a heritage streetcar that operated along the waterfront with amazing popularity and ridership. The city made some huge changes installing an 'olympic park' on the waterfront. The streetcar was literally 'thrown under the bus,' but the city told the local merchants, 'Don't worry, we'll buy a fleet of PCT (potato-chip-truck-thinks-its-a-trolley) buses.' Here is what happened the day the trolley died.
QuoteMetro to Cut Route that Replaced Waterfront Streetcar
Published Dec 19, 2011, 12:00pm
By Erica C. Barnett
King County Metro has proposed reducing service on the free downtown Seattle waterfront shuttle---the Route 99, which replaced the George Benson Waterfront Streetcar---to peak hours only, citing low ridership on the route.
Metro discontinued the streetcar service in 2005, when the city demolished a maintenance barn and streetcar station at Broad Street to make way for the Olympic Sculpture Park.
In exchange for getting rid of the streetcar, and as mitigation for years of construction of the deep-bore tunnel on the waterfront, the agency created a new bus route, the 99, to serve tourists and others wanting to travel north and south on the downtown waterfront. Under the new proposal, announced to neighborhood residents and businesses via flyer last month, the 99 would run only between 6 am and 9 am and between 3 pm and 6 pm on weekdays, and would not run on the weekends at all.
The flyer says the changes were needed to ensure that the bus system stays "productive---delivering the most value we can for the tax and fare dollars that support transit." The 99 is among the lowest 25 percent of Metro routes in terms of ridership.
However, the low ridership is a bit of a Catch-22. Before Metro eliminated the streetcar, ridership on the corridor was dramatically higher than it is today---about 404,000 trips a year in 2003, compared to about 252,000 in 2010 (and 204,000 in 2009). The reason, probably, is twofold: First, Metro cut service on the route from every 15 minutes to every 30, making the faux-"streetcar" less reliable and convenient. Second, and perhaps more importantly: People like riding streetcars---and buses painted like streetcars don't fool anyone.
The King County Council will vote on the proposed service reduction in January. Neither Metro representatives nor King County Executive Dow Constantine's staff immediately returned calls for comment.
I have ridden the Seattle waterfront trolley. It was very, very popular, especially with the ferry terminal at one end and all of the eateries and shops at all of the piers along the way.
Huge disservice by putting a bus line in to replace it. The art and park fans definitely beat out the tourists on this one.
Here is the original MJ article on it.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-feb-affordable-streetcar-seattles-waterfront-streetcar
Until you have ridden one you cannot realize how superior a vehicle is a streetcar/tram on rails powered by electricity over any style of rubber-tired, on-the-pavement vehicle. The ride is WAY smoother, the acceleration is consistent, the noise is less, there is no side-to-side sway or abrupt turns. The ride in a trolley is better than any limousine.
The transit people in Seattle were idiots who had never ridden their own steetcars.
Yeah, anyone who tries to sell you on the concept of a bus being just like rail is clearly lying or they have no earthly idea of what they are selling. I've never understood why transit agencies do this. They are basically doing a disservice to the riders they serve. What's wrong with promoting a PCT or a bus for what it really is? You shouldn't have to trick people because after a ride or two, they'll get the real message.
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 14, 2013, 03:33:05 PM
The transit people in Seattle were idiots who had never ridden their own steetcars.
except for the tiny little fact that they opened a new modern streetcar line about 5 years ago
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 14, 2013, 07:36:57 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 14, 2013, 03:33:05 PM
The transit people in Seattle were idiots who had never ridden their own steetcars.
except for the tiny little fact that they opened a new modern streetcar line about 5 years ago
I think he is referring to the scraping of the heritage streetcar route, in which case we'd probably all agree with him. Certainly the modern streetcar lines are different animals, superior on the transit side but sorely lacking in nostalgic appeal.
I'm pretty amazed at the comment, "there is no side-to-side sway." This would indicate nearly perfect track and truck conditions. In extreme cases, violent oscillation of a cars trucks, known as 'hunting' will cause irregular rail and wheel wear, which can hasten a visit by the scrap dealer. Usually, you'll feel the slight sway onboard the cars - Dog Walker now has me wishing I had ridden instead of just snapping a couple of photos.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on July 15, 2013, 12:54:15 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 14, 2013, 07:36:57 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 14, 2013, 03:33:05 PM
The transit people in Seattle were idiots who had never ridden their own steetcars.
except for the tiny little fact that they opened a new modern streetcar line about 5 years ago
I'm pretty amazed at the comment, "there is no side-to-side sway." This would indicate nearly perfect track and truck conditions. In extreme cases, violent oscillation of a cars trucks, known as 'hunting' will cause irregular rail and wheel wear, which can hasten a visit by the scrap dealer. Usually, you'll feel the slight sway onboard the cars - Dog Walker now has me wishing I had ridden instead of just snapping a couple of photos.
Yeah, I'm sure it's case-by-case. I rode the historic streetcar line in Dallas, fully-funded non-profit heritage group, and while it was a lot of fun and seemed very well-utilized, um, it was NOT smooth. Lol
Track maintenance issues:
Trams in Toronto and Amsterdam are smooth as glass. I think they are a wider gauge than the older ones. (Ock?) New lines in New Orleans are too except for the old St. Charles line out to Audubon Park which rocks a little in a couple of places.
Haven't ridden the Market St. line in San Francisco in too many years to know how smooth it is now. The ground out there moves around occasionally which probably makes things harder to keep level.
Has anyone here ridden the lines in Los Angeles?
QuoteHas anyone here ridden the lines in Los Angeles?
LA has a light rail system. I've used the Gold Line extensively. That's actually a good reminder as I have a bunch of photos for an MJ story that I haven't gotten around to.
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 16, 2013, 09:44:58 AMHas anyone here ridden the lines in Los Angeles?
I've ridden heavy rail, LRT, BRT and Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner in Los Angeles. The smoothest ride was taking LRT to Long Beach. It was also the most interesting traveling through South Central and Compton. I typically take pictures but on that trip, I decided it was better off not to.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 16, 2013, 02:50:32 PM
I've ridden heavy rail, LRT, BRT and Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner in Los Angeles. The smoothest ride was taking LRT to Long Beach. It was also the most interesting traveling through South Central and Compton. I typically take pictures but on that trip, I decided it was better off not to.
lol
riding (dirty) through the LBC?
Quote from: thelakelander on July 16, 2013, 02:50:32 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on July 16, 2013, 09:44:58 AMHas anyone here ridden the lines in Los Angeles?
I've ridden heavy rail, LRT, BRT and Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner in Los Angeles. The smoothest ride was taking LRT to Long Beach. It was also the most interesting traveling through South Central and Compton. I typically take pictures but on that trip, I decided it was better off not to.
I've ridden the heavy rail...my company is so adamant about cabs when I go for business and when I go for pleasure I'm either with poeple (everyone there has cars) or have a rental. LA rail is ok, but nothing to write home about in anyway (I never notice "smoothness"...for me as a daily rider since I don't have a car it's more about cleanliness and reliability). LACMTA is building a new light rail to open by 2015 right by two of our assets in LAC...Olympic corridor.