Nearly two years after we put on pub crawls using JTA trolleys as a demonstration event for the viability of a late night trolley service, some of the business owners in the area are trying out this service.
On August 10th from 6pm to midnight the PCT trolleys will run with stops at Bold City Brewery, Intuition Ale Works, Kickbacks, Pele’s, European Street Cafe and across the street from The Brick in Avondale with additional stops along select surfacearking lots.
A trolley ticket will run $5 and can be used unlimited during the hours of service the night of the 10th. Participating bars will be selling tickets to ride, so STOCK UP!!!!
If they'd loop a bus/PCT all the way from downtown to Fairfax and Roosevelt Plaza they'd pick up a much better ridership. It would be a great compliment to the new night service. A Roosevelt PCT could quit running when Publix closes.
Do we know whcih surface lots will be serviced?
But then how will the cops & prisons who rely on pulling over drunk drivers feed their children? Will someone PLEASE think of the children!
If done right this would be a great service for the area. Depending on how well the idea takes off this could be a major step forward towards the issue of parking along the Kings St district.
This should make for a pretty epic night at all venues that support the trolleys. This should also make for a pretty epic hangover for Field the next morning
Looking forward to blacking out for the last half of this!
So happy to see this, there is a large crowd that truly wishes R/A would get something similar to the Beaches trolley for at least Thursday - Saturday nights. Oh wait, this probably infringes on those trying to get parking permits there. Guess that's why it's a one night shot deal.
Running the trolley at night is a great idea and one that should be expanded to connect with downtown. If the businesses are willing to help support it, then its a win-win.
I remember a meeting in the King Street Baptist Church about Kickbacks expansion. I suggested the bar trollley as one means of reducing the parking overload to Jim Love and Kevin Kuzel. Perhaps they were the ones who convinced JTA to do this. Whoever is responsible deserves recognition and thanks.
Quote from: tayana42 on July 12, 2013, 01:19:20 AM
I remember a meeting in the King Street Baptist Church about Kickbacks expansion. I suggested the bar trollley as one means of reducing the parking overload to Jim Love and Kevin Kuzel. Perhaps they were the ones who convinced JTA to do this. Whoever is responsible deserves recognition and thanks.
This is NOT a JTA led effort. We've tried beating that drum for over 3 years now. JTA at one point at least extended the Riverside Trolley hours during Art Walk (and had phenomenal ridership), however they pulled the plug on that quickly without much reason as to why. Community leaders have lobbied JTA to run a loop hitting three R/A commercial districts on Friday and Saturday nights and MetroJacksonville even rented trolley busses to put on (again wildly successful) demonstration events. Instead of listening to the community's concerns, the Riverside Trolley route structure and operating times were changed time and time again. Each change brought about decreased ridership (gee, wonder why).
Yet again, this newest demonstration event is being paid for by several merchants in the area.... NOT JTA.
All the more reason to support this effort being led by locally owned small businesses that are contributing to the area's vibrancy.
Incidentally, it should be noted that Mark Hemphill (owner of Marks and Dive Bar on Bay Street) has also been beating this drum for years. He once famously walked out of a meeting with JTA in frustration. When you hear 'no' at every turn, you'd get pretty frustrated yourself :)
I have a lot of hope for Nat Ford. I hope he is successful changing the culture at JTA, b/c aside from a few very bright individuals there... this is the kind of experience most of us deal with. I really HATE to be negative, but it's hard not to have a negative attitude when you constantly feel like you are talking to a brick wall.
Can we please not call it a trolly...its a bus....its like pissing on my leg and telling me its raining..lol
Tallahassee is looking to do a similar service, with some free buses from West Palm Beach. Not sure how far it will go, since there is a good bit of vocal opposition.
Yes these are not Trolleys, but 'cute buses'. If there is no rail, and there is no gantry, it is not a trolley.
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/A-Tallahassee-Trolley-213081971.html (http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/A-Tallahassee-Trolley-213081971.html)
We are glad to participate in this test and hope this happens on a regular basis.
Allan DeVault, of Black Sheep fame and a longtime friend, has spearheaded this "experiment" and I believe that RAP will subsidize the expense not covered by the participating businesses. I am glad to see RAP take a proactive and business friendly approach to solving a problem.
I truly hope that solutions like this gain momentum in the R/A district in spite of attempts by many that want to build a wall around our awesome neighborhood and determine who can come in and out. Is that a run on sentence?
FYI...JTA charges a $100/hr per trolley or whatever you want to call it.
Quote from: Intuition Ale Works on July 12, 2013, 08:46:56 AM
We are glad to participate in this test and hope this happens on a regular basis.
Allan DeVault, of Black Sheep fame and a longtime friend, has spearheaded this "experiment" and I believe that RAP will subsidize the expense not covered by the participating businesses. I am glad to see RAP take a proactive and business friendly approach to solving a problem.
I truly hope that solutions like this gain momentum in the R/A district in spite of attempts by many that want to build a wall around our awesome neighborhood and determine who can come in and out. Is that a run on sentence?
FYI...JTA charges a $100/hr per trolley or whatever you want to call it.
Allan really deserves a lot of accord in advancing a more multi-modal transportation approach throughout R/A. He's been trying to work with JTA for going on 4 years to get reliable transit options with realisitc headways to attract choice riders. He's (along with Carmen) also responsible for the Riverside Trolley Art Walk experiment and lining up Home Tour properities along the Riverside Trolley route a few years ago (all experiments that were successful). He also spearheaded a merchant program with JTA (incidentally, one that took almost 3 years to happen... JTA should have jumped on the word go b/c at the time it was presented, the Riverside Trolley had a more substantial route tree along with faster headway times).
We need more voices like Allan Devault (btw, he's also working on getting funding to make Five Points more pedestrian friendly).
There's no reason a 'Later Gator' type service could work in Gainesville, but not Riverside/Avondale/Downtown. We've proven that.
I encourage all of you to buy a trolley ticket for August 10th and participate!
Quote from: mbwright on July 12, 2013, 08:46:13 AM
Tallahassee is looking to do a similar service, with some free buses from West Palm Beach. Not sure how far it will go, since there is a good bit of vocal opposition.
Yes these are not Trolleys, but 'cute buses'. If there is no rail, and there is no gantry, it is not a trolley.
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/A-Tallahassee-Trolley-213081971.html (http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/A-Tallahassee-Trolley-213081971.html)
Tallahassee and Gainesville both run free late night systems that are similar to this that serve their college students and local bars/restaurants. Later Gater is from 8:30-2:45 M-Sat and Night Nole is Tue-Sat from 10:30-3.
For those not familiar with the history. Here are a few links:
Live Blog of Riverside Trolley/Art Walk trial:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=10234.0 (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=10234.0)
Response to cutting service (yet again):
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-sep-jta-cutting-riverside-trolley-service (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-sep-jta-cutting-riverside-trolley-service)
Another successful ridership experiment with Luminaria:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=10659.0 (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=10659.0)
One of the wildly successful pub crawls where we rented JTA trolley busses and took patrons in b/w Riverside and Downtown venues:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-aug-pub-crawl-riverside-and-downtown-event-huge (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-aug-pub-crawl-riverside-and-downtown-event-huge)
Quote from: fieldafm on September 23, 2011, 08:15:06 AM
Let me also recap what the neighborhood did do:
-Convinced JTA to do a test run at Art Walk-Ridership went through the roof two out of the three times this was tried. The third time was cold and rainy. I personally ate dinner at Cafe NOLA that night and there were 6 vendors in all of Hemming Plaza and the streets were bare... meaning, no one showed up at Art Walk that night.
-Convinced JTA to get out in the neighborhood and promote the trolley service and run a free service day-Single biggest ridership day they had
-Made the RAP Home Tour part of the Riverside Trolley route-Ridership spikes to very high levels
-Downtown stakeholders meet with JTA about extending service to Bay Street on weekend nights like the Beaches Trolley system gets(who btw averages LESS riders per hour than Riverside Trolley). JTA never followsup with a promised second meeting.
-Riverside/Avondale advocates meet with JTA regarding several items:
*Thur-Sat evening hours-response was until ridership improves we won't do that
*Eliminate one of the 7 routes that touch Park Street and extend a secondary RT loop on Park so that the RT reaches more people-we already have ample service along Park Street(which is true as long as you want to go to Rosa Parks or the former Normandy Mall)
*A plan in hand with buy-in from local merchants about extending a direct merchant-based transit program with a bulk ticket program(done in other cities btw, with fantastic results in capturing choice riders)-response union bus drivers would never hand out tickets or validate any type of ticket* BTW, they turned their back on the beaches merchants in year 2 of the Beaches Trolley service and advertising revenue and rideship drops
*A plan for RT-specific month-long discounted passes-response, yes we want to do that, guess we will be waiting for a very long time now that they are eliminating what was the Riverside Trolley. BTW, the new plan is to terminate the trolley at the new courthouse, not the Landing.
-It has been said here and said many, many times to JTA by anyone who would speak up... but the route, headways and the terminus at FSCJ were all mistakes and not convenient to anyone. That was ignored.
-MetroJacksonville demonstrates a successful project with three months straight of successful trolley pub crawls, in part to demonstrate to JTA that evening service connecting vibrant entertainment/commercial nodes together works(as if you can't go to any city with a functioning transit system and witness this).
But hey, these are the smartest guys in the room... nothing to see here, move along.
There are about 5 senior people at JTA that get it. Otherwise, the senior leadership team needs to be replaced. And it needs to happen today.
As you can see, it's been a long road demonstrating successful experiements that show that transit would be accepted by the neighborhood if it's a convenient option.
Please support these efforts Aug 10th!
This is definitely a positive and if I'm in town I'll be there (and tell lots of others too) but why is it ending at midnight? Just cause some of the venues close then? And no tie in with the eastern portion of riverside?
Selfishly, if I can get back to Five Points at 2am that would be the ideal scenario as far as transit is concerned. Otherwise I'd be riding cause it's fun, not pragmatic.
Quotebut why is it ending at midnight? Just cause some of the venues close then
Considering that virtually all the businesses that are paying to rent the trolleys (remember, this isn't a JTA thing) close at midnight, I don't consider the service hours all that unreasonable.
Quote from: fieldafm on July 12, 2013, 12:12:04 PM
Quotebut why is it ending at midnight? Just cause some of the venues close then
Considering that virtually all the businesses that are paying to rent the trolleys (remember, this isn't a JTA thing) close at midnight, I don't consider the service hours all that unreasonable.
That's what I figured and I don't think its unreasonable either. Just not practical for me, and perhaps others like me.
Still certainly a positive move.
Allan is going to come on and update everyone in a bit... the date changed. Sorry for prematurely putting the August date out there.
First, thanks for all the kind words, support and great feedback. The regular discussions on this site help validate that there is support in both intellect/ideas and participant bodies for this sort of public transportation.
True, the initial or, soft date, was August 10th, but, for a few important reasons, we have set the hard date at Saturday, September 14th. We are looking forward to finalizing the sponsorship group, marketing pieces and tech pieces of the event (geo-location?).
I can confirm these things and promise to update as more info is available:
As noted in the thread, this is just one reasonable and, hopefully, viable solution to some of our neighborhood's parking challenges. It's been long talked about and overdue, but I couldn't better explain the history and goals than Fieldafm did above. Showing over whelming support for this pilot program will be well documented and distributed to JTA and city officials in a used car salesman like manner.
The goal of the initial dining shuttle is to be sponsored by local restaurants with tickets given out by those sponsors. (Feel free to tell your local restaurant owner or manager that you'd love to see them be a part of this program.) We look for future nights to be both rider and sponsor supported – much like JTA routes.
The route includes all the commercial areas of Avondale and Riverside, including 5 Points, King Street from Park to the brewery district, and the Shoppes of Avondale. Well marked stops in between will pick up and drop off people on major streets within the residential areas (St. Johns, Park, Riverside).
Tickets will be distributed at participating restaurants and I will post here when those tickets are available. Maps of the route, times, stops and participating restaurants will be available online at the same time and paper versions will be at participating restaurants.
The long term goal is no different than previously stated – convince JTA to provide this service on a regular basis. There are some that believe it could happen and more that believe it should happen.
Thanks again.
Quote from: fsujax on July 10, 2013, 08:43:53 AM
Do we know whcih surface lots will be serviced?
fsujax - There has been discussion about looping in surface lots at some point to promote a "park and ride" experience for guests coming from outside the neighborhood. The initial survey the group conducted told us that almost 50% of our driving traffic in the neighborhood comes from the 32204 and 32205 zip codes. We felt convincing our own neighbors that supporting this service would have a more immediate impact. That said, the route does go by some large lots and areas with more available parking that we hope will support those coming from outside these 2 zip codes. More info to come when published.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on July 12, 2013, 11:09:59 AM
This is definitely a positive and if I'm in town I'll be there (and tell lots of others too) but why is it ending at midnight? Just cause some of the venues close then? And no tie in with the eastern portion of riverside?
Selfishly, if I can get back to Five Points at 2am that would be the ideal scenario as far as transit is concerned. Otherwise I'd be riding cause it's fun, not pragmatic.
Project - There has been discussion about extending this or future runs until 2 or 2:30 am to help service the restaurants and bars that stay open later. As Intuition stated, the motor vehicles that are built to look like trolleys cost $100 per hour, so extending the hours requires more sponsors. We are targeting the restaurants first and will hope for later night establishments to join.
Quote from: Allan D on July 14, 2013, 11:41:39 PM
Quote from: fsujax on July 10, 2013, 08:43:53 AM
Do we know whcih surface lots will be serviced?
fsujax - There has been discussion about looping in surface lots at some point to promote a "park and ride" experience for guests coming from outside the neighborhood. The initial survey the group conducted told us that almost 50% of our driving traffic in the neighborhood comes from the 32204 and 32205 zip codes. We felt convincing our own neighbors that supporting this service would have a more immediate impact. That said, the route does go by some large lots and areas with more available parking that we hope will support those coming from outside these 2 zip codes. More info to come when published.
Wow. Has this survey been shared with the parking study group? That's pretty interesting that the perceived parking congestion issues are primarily a result of the neighborhood's own residents making short auto trips. It would suggest that access to multimodal choices, such as this, are valid solutions for the neighborhood's future.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 15, 2013, 12:16:16 AM
Wow. Has this survey been shared with the parking study group? That's pretty interesting that the perceived parking congestion issues are primarily a result of the neighborhood's own residents making short auto trips. It would suggest that access to multimodal choices, such as this, are valid solutions for the neighborhood's future.
Lake - That % was based on data from just a few of several participants, but those that had more complete surveys. While it may not pass a statisticians litmus test, it is the most complete data that we feel comfortable working with.
It does confirm what we all "feel" to be true and, as an Avondale resident, I have been guilty of - local residents driving short trips within the neighborhood. Short of more viable alternative (I'm not biking from west Avondale to 5 Points on a work day in the Summer), I drive now. I did take the RT when it came this far west.
I believe members of the parking study have this information.
Perhaps it's already in the plan, but if not, why not charge $1 per person per ride. If it's fun and it's popular, it just might be self-funding. If it is self-funding, JTA's would be much more likely to support a permanent route, than if it'a a free trolley bus sponsored by local restaurants.
Jacksonville is an automobile-dependent city. Our heat, rain, and lack of bike lanes discourage bicycle transportation.
If that trolley bus is fun, convenient (serves lots of stops and runs frequently) and inexpensive it just might work. However, you have to ask the question: will you leave your car at home and walk "x" distance to the trolley bus stop not knowing when it's coming, ride to a bar or restaurant, and then wait for the bus to ride back to your stop, and then walk home? Are we at the tipping point where that bus is more attractive than driving and fining there is no nearby parking?
Probably not. HOWEVER, if that bus is loaded with a fun crowd, and you enjoy the experience, it just might work. Hope it does.
Glad to hear this. I hope it can be extended downtown. This should be also championed a way to keep people from drinking and driving if it could service the core area. I wouldnt mind walking quite a bit of I could catch a trolly from riverside to downtown and back heck Id pay more then a buck.
Can we please not call these trollies;....its like pissing on my leg and telling me its raining...they are not a trolley which gives the idea that our city is reaching for something new. These are buses running on diesel ...unless they are battery which is great.
Quote from: Garden guy on July 30, 2013, 08:33:04 AM
Can we please not call these trollies;....its like pissing on my leg
Hey Garden guy, is that semicolon/ellipses combo in your post supposed to represent the pissing that's happening to your leg? Because I'm trying to figure out why you (or anyone) would use those like that.
Quote from: funwithteeth on July 30, 2013, 12:03:52 PM
Quote from: Garden guy on July 30, 2013, 08:33:04 AM
Can we please not call these trollies;....its like pissing on my leg
Hey Garden guy, is that semicolon/ellipses combo in your post supposed to represent the pissing that's happening to your leg? Because I'm trying to figure out why you (or anyone) would use those like that.
lol. i think he got agitated by the rain piss and just hit the semicolon button on accident. it is next to the period key.