"In the Pipeline" - March 6, 2006
"Renovations at former Lerner building for mixed-use development, 20 W. Adams St. between Main and Laura streets, six stories totaling 36,000 square feet, $3.14 million; contractor is Logistical Transportation Co. Inc.; agent is Marion Graham Jr.; owner is Kimmik Corp. dba 20 West Adams Inc.; architect is PQH Architects; plans include 16 apartments, 4,410 square feet of offices, a second-floor fitness room and a first-floor restaurant."
A lot of focus is always placed on the Laura Street Trio. But, whatever happened to the development that never was at the adjacent 20 West Adams Street?
I was just wondering about that building myself today while walking to lunch. For the first time ever I noticed the new windows, but after checking Google Streetview, they've been there for at least 2 years.
At least there's a nice mural painted on the plywood door covers.....
I am just wondering if it is an absentee landowner or one hit by economic times.
Essentially the owner is Marion Graham of local mortuary "fame."
This project was a casualty of the economic downfall a few years back.
You would think that any attempt to rehabilitate the trio would have tried to pull this piece in. It certainly would make sense from an additive/complementary purpose. I think this is more so given its proximity to the core.
If the windows were put in two years ago, I imagine it was to stave off code enforcement.
Quote from: Josh on July 03, 2013, 02:26:14 PM
I was just wondering about that building myself today while walking to lunch. For the first time ever I noticed the new windows, but after checking Google Streetview, they've been there for at least 2 years.
At least there's a nice mural painted on the plywood door covers.....
The mural was done 2 or 3 Art Walks ago. Or at least during something going on down town. I watched them do it.
Are you guys talking about the Phoenix mural? Wasn't that done during OneSpark?
Quote from: icarus on July 03, 2013, 05:08:40 PM
You would think that any attempt to rehabilitate the trio would have tried to pull this piece in. It certainly would make sense from an additive/complementary purpose. I think this is more so given its proximity to the core.
If the windows were put in two years ago, I imagine it was to stave off code enforcement.
The windows were added before the redevelopment project stopped. They've been there longer than two years. I don't remember the exact year, but they gave a few of us from MJ a tour of the interior.
Quote from: comncense on July 03, 2013, 05:52:03 PM
Are you guys talking about the Phoenix mural? Wasn't that done during OneSpark?
I think you are right. I knew it was during some event but couldn't remember.
One of the benefits of being around for a few years now, is we have a decent set of archived information and photography from the last decade.
10/07/07 - 20 West Adams opening in November? (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-oct-20-west-adams-opening-in-november)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2618-first_phonevegas_006.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1470-p1020687.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2621-20-west-floorplan.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2617-20_w_adams_0906.JPG)
Windows were put in before the September 2009 urban construction update:
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4392-p1090573.JPG)
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-sep-downtown-construction-update-september-2009
At least what progress had been made was preserved but has there been any information on plans for this building or of interest in progressing on completion?
I haven't heard anything since Kimmick boarded up the first floor a few years back. That's a pretty large building to only get 16 units out of it.
I agree but current building code and an unfortunate configuration are to blame. I guess the hope would be that the units could command a premium for their relative size.
It would be interesting to see the final proposal on the Laura Street Trio and see if that might make use of the Lerner building better suited for commercial.
I doubt the Laura Trio will have any significant impact on what the use of the old Lerner Shops building should be. I also doubt, those units could command a premium in today's market.
I have no idea of what the proper answer to get this project back on track should be. However, if I had to guess, my answer would resolve around the developer (if they are still around) needing incentives to plug the financial gap between adaptive reuse costs and the realistic market rate ROI for the finished product.
I don't even think residential is a good use for it...16 units? yes, way too few and and way too large of units for such a building, but they were configured so that each unit could have windows, which will only be on two sides IF the "back" isn't blocked by new development in the future.
Office = difficult, too, but perhaps more practical. Problem is that for either (rentals or office), market/commandable rents are wayyyyy too low for the cost it would take to gut and rehab this building. It's going to be empty for a while (maybe owners can at the very least activate the ground floor for minimal cost and put pop-ups in that space...but that would require a well-capitalized owner who can sit on such investment and take the loss on this building; Jax doesn't really have such landlords).
Current code requires each bedroom to have a window. There is an existing alleyway which they proposed to use by adding the balconies for each level on the rear alley. But, I agree with you. I don't think the market would support premium rents and the use of city money to subsidize capital cost may not represent the best use of incentive money or the property.
I know from previous conversations that a franchise restaurant originally wanted the entire first floor but there were concerns about the viability without an active market for dinner downtown. Maybe, the situation will change with the more recent developments and those planned.
The building is already gutted so really its just the cost of the buildout (not insignificant). I think it may just require a creative use of the property. Hopefully someone has such an idea.
At one point, the Loop was supposed to go in it. The rear balconies have already been constructed as well. If Kimmick is still the developer, they'd still have to factor in the costs and obligations of what has been invested into the project so far. If Kimmick is no longer around and it's bank owned, then someone could position themselves to take advantage of Kimmick's previous work.
Quote from: icarus on July 05, 2013, 08:56:56 AM
Current code requires each bedroom to have a window.
Is this normal code? I feel like I have been in plenty of bedrooms that don't have windows - or maybe I'm thinking of windows covered by brick/timber from adjoining buildings, ha.
Each bedroom is required to have a window. Understandably this is not the case in a lot of adaptive reuse projects but it is code nonetheless. Any real estate appraisal in this area is going to abide by that requirement as well.
Some get around it by either doing unpermitted renovations or filing plans listing the room as an office/study/storage and then modifying it after.
From the Loopnet page for this property, such promise in 2007 shame that it all hit right when DT seemed to hit its stride.
QuoteOriginally built in 1911 as the Southern Drug Company , 20 West Adams Street will be completely
rehabilitated (Nov/07) into a mixed use (office/retail/residential) building located in the heart of
Jacksonville' s downtown commercial business district. The location provides excellent access to
both north and southbound I-95 by way of Union Street and the Main Street and Acosta bridges. The
total building is 38,000 square sf. The office floor (2nd) is 100% leased by a local law firm and the
residential floors (3-6) will consist of 16 relatively large loft apartments that will be leased by year
end. The restaurant/retail space located on the ground floor is approximately 6100 sf total. This
space can be divided to meet the tenant' s needs.
Jacksonville' s Commercial District is similar to major metropolitan business districts with uses
including a mix of older office buildings, new office towers, a specialty retail center, and numerous
hotels. Over 7 million square feet of commercial space play host to some of the largest employers in
Jacksonville. Urban living is the wave of Downtown's future, with 1,432 housing units completed
since 2001, and an additional 690 units under construction and over 2,800 units proposed for
development. The St. Johns River bisects the downtown area of Jacksonville and office, multi-family,
condominium and hotel development has occurred on both sides of the river.
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/15270550/20-West-Adams-St-Jacksonville-FL/ (http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/15270550/20-West-Adams-St-Jacksonville-FL/)
Update:
QuotePhoenix Adams Rising LLC of Jacksonville paid $750,000 for the office building at 20 W. Adams St. The 37,800-square-foot building was built in 1911 and last sold for $720,00 in 1997.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-08-22/story/sunday-business-notebook-antique-mall-searching-new-location
Regarding bedroom windows, I have been in Churchwell Lofts dozens of times (a reuse of an old drygoods warehouse) and most of the interior bedrooms have no windows at all.
Perhaps the developer got a waiver of that requirement.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 24, 2015, 06:24:21 AM
Update:
QuotePhoenix Adams Rising LLC of Jacksonville paid $750,000 for the office building at 20 W. Adams St. The 37,800-square-foot building was built in 1911 and last sold for $720,00 in 1997.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-08-22/story/sunday-business-notebook-antique-mall-searching-new-location
I find that tidbit more interesting than the whole five points thing. Any idea of what's going on with that building?
Quote from: MusicMan on August 24, 2015, 09:00:19 AM
Regarding bedroom windows, I have been in Churchwell Lofts dozens of times (a reuse of an old drygoods warehouse) and most of the interior bedrooms have no windows at all.
Perhaps the developer got a waiver of that requirement.
Its really a fire code issue more than anything else. They want points of egress for inhabitants. I can only imagine Churchwell obtained a waiver.
I'd really be interested to see what develops on this. Regardless of the trio, I think it would be great to see this project finished.
A few weeks ago when we had some powerful storms roll through downtown the wood panels with the phoenix painted on them managed to come down onto the sidewalk. From what I could see, it looks like they came to rest on an SUV parked on the side of the street.
I'll start collecting the bets on how likely this is to be completed. Over/under 30%
Quote from: jaxjaguar on August 24, 2015, 01:00:45 PM
I'll start collecting the bets on how likely this is to be completed. Over/under 30%
I'll take the over...you didn't give a timeline. Completed by 2199. :)
Quote from: acme54321 on August 24, 2015, 09:16:47 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 24, 2015, 06:24:21 AM
Update:
QuotePhoenix Adams Rising LLC of Jacksonville paid $750,000 for the office building at 20 W. Adams St. The 37,800-square-foot building was built in 1911 and last sold for $720,00 in 1997.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2015-08-22/story/sunday-business-notebook-antique-mall-searching-new-location
I find that tidbit more interesting than the whole five points thing. Any idea of what's going on with that building?
This project is starting back up. It will the be focus of tomorrow's front page article.
Lake is such a tease. ;D
Quote from: brainstormer on September 08, 2015, 07:52:44 PM
Lake is such a tease. ;D
Only if he copied the style of other website partners...
Quote from: thelakelander on September 08, 2015, 03:32:28 PM
This project is starting back up. Shortly.
;)
QuoteA 104-year-old building on Jacksonville's West Adams Street has been sold and could soon house dormitories for Florida State College at Jacksonville, which is asking for $1.2 million in city money.
Downtown Investment Authority CEO Aundra Wallace said former building owner Marion Graham sold the property at 20 W. Adams St. to Eugene Profit. Profit, a former NFL player, also owns 100 E. Bay Street, whose main tenant is Peterbrooke Chocolatier.
The plan for the site calls for $600,000 in grants to the property owner and $600,000 in forgivable loans at 0 percent interest to FSCJ over 10 years. The college would be able to use $60,000 a year to cover any shortfall between FSCJ revenue derived from student rentals and financial obligations to the developer, according to plans obtained from the DIA.
Wallace said the proposal that will be voted on by the DIA on Wednesday is a "good deal." He said the project will create more student housing for Florida State College at Jacksonville and restore a historic downtown building.
If the Downtown Investment Authority approves the grant and loans, the second through sixth floors of the Lerner Building will be converted into dorms for 60 students.
Broker Margie Seaman said the more than 5,500 square feet of space on the first floor will continue to be marketed as retail or restaurant space.
The developer's grant would go to cover expenses incurred during the reuse of the "historic landmark." The money would come out of the Downtown Historic Revitalization Fund and could be used for restoring the outside of the building and preservation of significant interior features, according to the DIA proposal.
The total cost of the development is estimated to reach $6.2 million, but including the value of the land and building, around $1.2 million.
The developer would also receive a $2.89 million loan from Presidential Bank, according documents submitted to the DIA.
If DIA approves the plan at its Wednesday meeting, it will have to be approved by the City Council.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/11/16/student-housing-coming-to-downtown-jacksonville.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/11/16/student-housing-coming-to-downtown-jacksonville.html) 8)
Nice move by FSCJ. It seems that they are serious about their intentions of growing the downtown campus to give their students a real college experience. I wonder if this means they've passed on the idea about doing the culinary school and housing in the buildings near Sweet Pete's?
^ I have a feeling they wouldn't embark on two residential projects before knowing whether or not one can be successful. This is another great building that needs to have its renovation completed. Although a little farther from campus, this is probably an area with more retail and bars/restaurants for students in the evenings. Now can we just approve the Trio funding and completely activate Laura and Adams!!! We are so close...
I wonder about the culinary component as well. It would be great to see them move their culinary institute to downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 16, 2015, 05:25:15 PM
Nice move by FSCJ. It seems that they are serious about their intentions of growing the downtown campus to give their students a real college experience. I wonder if this means they've passed on the idea about doing the culinary school and housing in the buildings near Sweet Pete's?
Might have been just a poor choice of words but Wallace said:
QuoteHe said the project will create more student housing for Florida State College at Jacksonville and restore a historic downtown building.
More than, say, the original amount created by the first project they are pursuing? I'm guessing not but we'll see.
I see the JBJ has updated the story and it now states that the first floor will be a culinary cafe leased by the college.
^Well, I guess that sums it up. Assuming the Trio project gets done, this little cluster of activity will be a huge boost for the Laura Street corridor. Hopefully, FSCJ continues to grow their downtown campus south of State & Union.
More details on both locations:
QuoteThe college in July proposed development of the building at 218 W. Church St. for student housing. The proposal also included buying 502 N. Hogan St., which would have been used for the restaurant.
That plan was abandoned.
"The numbers just didn't work out," said college spokeswoman Jill Johnson. "We're moving to a different building but with the same concept. This is a better opportunity."
QuoteThe project, estimated at $6.2 million, would renovate the building to create housing for 60 students on the second through sixth floors and a full-service restaurant on the ground floor that would be operated by students in the college's culinary arts program.
QuoteThe developer is confident the housing component of the FSCJ project can be completed by August, meaning the first students would move in before the college's fall term begins, said Richman.
It could be the first of several similar projects to provide housing in the Downtown neighborhood for the college's students.
"We're in the process of cultivating some other opportunities," Richman said.
Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546514
I'm sorry to see the 218 W. Church plan abandoned and hope something else comes along to save that building - Klutho's last downtown office building project if I recall?
But as far as connectivity and impact goes, 20 West probably scores higher. And it's exciting that this can come together so quickly, and that FSCJ is looking at other downtown opportunities.
Great quote, Lake. Especially this part!!
Quote"We're in the process of cultivating some other opportunities," Richman said.
I see 20 west adams a long shot for FCCJ. Its 7-8 blocks away from the college and the students have to walk past the JTA bus depot, which is scary during the day, who know what it looks like at night. Ambassador Hotel is much closer, and there are no other buildings close to the space in Springfield or other spaces? Nice to see them looking to change, but its too far away, IMO, for students. Plus the terms are rediculous zero percent int loans for 10 years. LOL!
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 17, 2015, 04:35:45 PM
I see 20 west adams a long shot for FCCJ. Its 7-8 blocks away from the college and the students have to walk past the JTA bus depot, which is scary during the day, who know what it looks like at night. Ambassador Hotel is much closer, and there are no other buildings close to the space in Springfield or other spaces? Nice to see them looking to change, but its too far away, IMO, for students. Plus the terms are rediculous zero percent int loans for 10 years. LOL!
I believe the plan is for this to largely be residences for the culinary school, which would take space within the same building.
Also, it's 2 blocks from a Skyway station which leads right to the downtown campus. FSCJ Downtown students are probably the most versed in the city in taking public transit.
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 17, 2015, 04:35:45 PM
I see 20 west adams a long shot for FCCJ. Its 7-8 blocks away from the college and the students have to walk past the JTA bus depot, which is scary during the day, who know what it looks like at night. Ambassador Hotel is much closer, and there are no other buildings close to the space in Springfield or other spaces? Nice to see them looking to change, but its too far away, IMO, for students. Plus the terms are rediculous zero percent int loans for 10 years. LOL!
Wow, it amazes me that people in this town think walking 0.6 miles is far. I walked that far every day to the train from my apartment before moving to Jax. Also, if you live off campus in any real college town at any big university you will walk this far to class once and awhile, sometimes more. But as Tac just posted it may be geared towards the students in the culinary school although I'm sure there would be others in there as well.
Quote from: mtraininjax on November 17, 2015, 04:35:45 PM
...the JTA bus depot, which is scary during the day, who know what it looks like at night.
Scary? Only if one forgets to remove their pointy hood before exiting the bus. And it's actually a lot less busy at night since most of the riders are already home after working their job across town.
I still find it kind of amazing how shallow some people can be. I shouldn't, but I still do. Fucking poor people! ::)
Edit:
Since I guess no one has told you yet, the guy on the street asking you for $.32 to catch a bus really isn't trying to catch a bus. Usually, he needs some change to put together to grab a beer or a smoke. I kind of thought that was common knowledge, but apparently it isn't.
I'd say 80% (unverified, so don't check) of the people on the bus are kids getting around town, elderly running errands or working people getting to and from jobs. The only busses full of derelicts and drunks are the night trolleys running in riverside and at the beach.
The DIA approved this project:
QuoteThe Downtown Investment Authority approved a deal that will send $1.2 million to construct student housing in Downtown for Florida State College at Jacksonville.
The 104-year-old Lerner building at 20 W. Adams St. needs renovations estimated by owner Eugene Profit to cost $6.2 million. Profit, a former NFL player, also owns 100 E. Bay Street, whose main tenant is Peterbrooke Chocolatier.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/11/18/dia-approves-fscjs-proposed-west-adams-street.html
Dorms for 60 students?
Sigh.
We need UNF to build a big-azz dorm downtown -- they've been
very conservative with the growth of their university, especially when you compare that to USF, UCF, FAU and FIU. That's not a criticism; it has led to a distinctive campus and university. But it's time for some creative, urban thinking to complement what they've done on campus.
FSCJ can never supply a vital boost of young students for downtown. They just can't.
UNF can. Do a joint project with UF; offer housing to their Pharmacy and Health Science Center students. Whatever, however; we need UNF downtown.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/ron-littlepage/2014-10-03/story/ron-littlepage-downtown-campus-would-benefit-unf-and-city
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/education/os-ucf-downtown-campus-update-20150924-story.html
QuoteThe building would have classrooms for nearly 4,000 UCF students and about 350 Valencia students studying fields such as social work, health information technology, health sciences and legal studies.
UCF also seeks to build a 300-bed dormitory and a 600-space parking garage, using bonds to build the structures and paying them off with parking fees and housing revenue.
FSCJ 60 beds vs UCF 300 beds? Come on; UNF can do that. There's no way in hell UNF can't do that.
Got to start somewhere. SCAD didn't start off their redevelopment of Savannah with a huge dorm. It's been a decades long process to get to where they are today. No reason holding our hopes out for one school that isn't interested in building dorms miles away from their core campus.
Ennis . . . SCAD wasn't a 2-year college at its inception, was it? It's maddening to hear you and Stephen talking about FSCJ dorms downtown. I doubt you can find any example anywhere in the nation where a 2-year college has accomplished the task we're addressing.
The fact that UNF hasn't seen the light doesn't mean they won't see the light but we can be certain FSCJ can't get it done even if they try.
Hell, maybe we should be trying to focus more on UF and their professional students if UNF remains intransigent. Two different Jacksonville outfits (Brasfield & Gorrie construction company; Signet Development) are involved with a public-private dorm being built at UF:
http://www.schoolconstructionnews.com/articles/2015/02/12/university-florida-residence-support-entrepreneurs
QuoteAn entrepreneurial-based academic residence community, Infinity Hall is the result of a public-private partnership between the university and the Jacksonville office of Shanghai-based real estate development and construction management firm Signet Development. Through a services and affiliation agreement with the University of Florida, Signet Development will develop, finance, own and manage Infinity Hall, representing the first privatized development within the 40-acre community known as Innovation Square.
One way or the other we need a university-affiliated dorm downtown.
Quote from: RattlerGator on November 18, 2015, 10:13:33 PM
Dorms for 60 students?
Sigh.
We need UNF to build a big-azz dorm downtown -- they've been very conservative with the growth of their university, especially when you compare that to USF, UCF, FAU and FIU. That's not a criticism; it has led to a distinctive campus and university. But it's time for some creative, urban thinking to complement what they've done on campus.
FSCJ can never supply a vital boost of young students for downtown. They just can't.
UNF can. Do a joint project with UF; offer housing to their Pharmacy and Health Science Center students. Whatever, however; we need UNF downtown.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/ron-littlepage/2014-10-03/story/ron-littlepage-downtown-campus-would-benefit-unf-and-city
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/education/os-ucf-downtown-campus-update-20150924-story.html
QuoteThe building would have classrooms for nearly 4,000 UCF students and about 350 Valencia students studying fields such as social work, health information technology, health sciences and legal studies.
UCF also seeks to build a 300-bed dormitory and a 600-space parking garage, using bonds to build the structures and paying them off with parking fees and housing revenue.
FSCJ 60 beds vs UCF 300 beds? Come on; UNF can do that. There's no way in hell UNF can't do that.
UNF is focused on other things besides numeric growth. The focus for the last ten years has been building up our programs and standards while keeping class sizes low. That can't be done while cultivating explosive growth like UCF has done, at least not for a long time. And either way, we'd just be duplicating the successes of other universities all across the state, rather than finding our own.
Quote from: RattlerGator on November 18, 2015, 10:50:20 PM
Ennis . . . SCAD wasn't a 2-year college at its inception, was it? It's maddening to hear you and Stephen talking about FSCJ dorms downtown. I doubt you can find any example anywhere in the nation where a 2-year college has accomplished the task we're addressing.
The fact that UNF hasn't seen the light doesn't mean they won't see the light but we can be certain FSCJ can't get it done even if they try.
Hell, maybe we should be trying to focus more on UF and their professional students if UNF remains intransigent. Two different Jacksonville outfits (Brasfield & Gorrie construction company; Signet Development) are involved with a public-private dorm being built at UF:
http://www.schoolconstructionnews.com/articles/2015/02/12/university-florida-residence-support-entrepreneurs
QuoteAn entrepreneurial-based academic residence community, Infinity Hall is the result of a public-private partnership between the university and the Jacksonville office of Shanghai-based real estate development and construction management firm Signet Development. Through a services and affiliation agreement with the University of Florida, Signet Development will develop, finance, own and manage Infinity Hall, representing the first privatized development within the 40-acre community known as Innovation Square.
One way or the other we need a university-affiliated dorm downtown.
Off the top of my head, De Anza College and Foothill College in Santa Clara County, California have had a massive impact in the growth of not only their communities, but Silicon Valley as a whole.
Quote from: RattlerGator on November 18, 2015, 10:50:20 PM
Ennis . . . SCAD wasn't a 2-year college at its inception, was it? It's maddening to hear you and Stephen talking about FSCJ dorms downtown. I doubt you can find any example anywhere in the nation where a 2-year college has accomplished the task we're addressing.
Things can evolve over time. FAMU and BCU didn't start off as 4-year schools either. SCAD opened in 1978 with a total of 71 students. It didn't crack 2,000 until 1989. FSCJ is no longer a traditional 2 year community college.
FSCJ offers bachelor degrees in Biomedical Sciences, Business Administration, Computer Systems Networking and Telecommunications, Converged Communications, Digital Media, Early Childhood Education, Financial Services, Human Services, Information Technology Management, Logistics, Nursing, Public Safety Management and Supervision and Management.
If they want to develop their downtown campus to offer their students the perks of a traditional college campus, why not facilitate such a development? Might as well work immediately with an institution that is already in place that also wants to expand, as opposed to ignoring them and holding out hope for schools with other priorities that are clearly not interested.
Quote from: RattlerGator on November 18, 2015, 10:50:20 PM
Ennis . . . SCAD wasn't a 2-year college at its inception, was it? It's maddening to hear you and Stephen talking about FSCJ dorms downtown. I doubt you can find any example anywhere in the nation where a 2-year college has accomplished the task we're addressing.
The fact that UNF hasn't seen the light doesn't mean they won't see the light but we can be certain FSCJ can't get it done even if they try.
Hell, maybe we should be trying to focus more on UF and their professional students if UNF remains intransigent. Two different Jacksonville outfits (Brasfield & Gorrie construction company; Signet Development) are involved with a public-private dorm being built at UF:
http://www.schoolconstructionnews.com/articles/2015/02/12/university-florida-residence-support-entrepreneurs
QuoteAn entrepreneurial-based academic residence community, Infinity Hall is the result of a public-private partnership between the university and the Jacksonville office of Shanghai-based real estate development and construction management firm Signet Development. Through a services and affiliation agreement with the University of Florida, Signet Development will develop, finance, own and manage Infinity Hall, representing the first privatized development within the 40-acre community known as Innovation Square.
One way or the other we need a university-affiliated dorm downtown.
Calm down RG, they are renovating an old building downtown that is part of Jax's history, we should all be thanking FSCJ. And it is a nice start, there is opportunity for other institutions to do something in the future. Don't whine about someone doing something downtown because you don't think it's big enough. It is a project that appears to be proceeding so I'm supportive of it.
I'm with you on UF, I've said this before, it would be great to have a satellite campus or building housing something affiliated with UF downtown. There is a huge UF Health system here in Jax with the main trauma center being a few blocks from downtown and the large new campus out by the airport and they plan to add additional phases to that one. So perhaps there is a better chance UF with do something downtown rather than UNF, but who knows.
Yeah, I understand all of that. I don't think I'm whining or complaining about what FSCJ is doing -- I'm obviously all for it. It simply can't do what UNF or UF could do, as residential institutions. I'm very familiar with our K-20 educational system. FSCJ isn't a residential institution and will never be that. To bring up FAMU or BCU at the turn of last century is a non-starter. They can assist, like Valencia is doing in Orlando. Okay. And Tacachale, I seriously doubt if those California institutions earned the acclaim you just gave them but I'll check it out.
How about UNF? It opened in 1972 but didn't become a 4-year school until 1984. 30 years later and the RattlerGators of MJ believe them opening a dorm in downtown is the game changer. FSCJ became a state college in 2009. Now they want to incrementally transform their downtown campus into a traditional college campus that includes students living in downtown. This is nothing to look down on. There's a benefit of students living in downtown, regardless of whether they are enrolled at UNF, EWC, FCSL, JU or FSCJ. They all sleep, eat, shit and put their clothes on the same way. They all occupy restored buildings the same way. They all spend money the same way. Who knows where this story ends up 10, 20, 30 years from now? If UF and UNF one day decides to invest in DT Jax....great. In the meantime, keep on growing and investing FSCJ!
Quote from: RattlerGator on November 19, 2015, 09:44:07 AM
Yeah, I understand all of that. I don't think I'm whining or complaining about what FSCJ is doing -- I'm obviously all for it. It simply can't do what UNF or UF could do, as residential institutions. I'm very familiar with our K-20 educational system. FSCJ isn't a residential institution and will never be that. To bring up FAMU or BCU at the turn of last century is a non-starter. They can assist, like Valencia is doing in Orlando. Okay. And Tacachale, I seriously doubt if those California institutions earned the acclaim you just gave them but I'll check it out.
You understand why FSCJ and many other community colleges in FL have been given State College designation, right? It's because the state had guaranteed all 4-year degree programs to graduates of community colleges, but the burden on our state universities had become such that they could no longer meet this obligation. Therefore, most of the students pursuing 4-year degree programs are actually traditional students seeking a traditional college experience. Now FSCJ is seeking to better meet some of that demand.
It sounds good to me. My son just started FSCJ this fall, and the plan is for him to earn his bachelors in Human Services for FSCJ.
He practically lives at Chamblin's now, so I would be very interested in him having the "college" experience in a dorm room downtown. He thinks it would be awesome.
Have any other community colleges in the state done this before? If FSCJ is on the front of this they could be on to something and may be able to shift their demographics to more of a traditional college experience. It seems like that would be great for the school and downtown as a whole. I would imagine if this project is successful they may pursue others downtown too.
Quote from: RattlerGator on November 19, 2015, 09:44:07 AM
Yeah, I understand all of that. I don't think I'm whining or complaining about what FSCJ is doing -- I'm obviously all for it. It simply can't do what UNF or UF could do, as residential institutions. I'm very familiar with our K-20 educational system. FSCJ isn't a residential institution and will never be that. To bring up FAMU or BCU at the turn of last century is a non-starter. They can assist, like Valencia is doing in Orlando. Okay. And Tacachale, I seriously doubt if those California institutions earned the acclaim you just gave them but I'll check it out.
De Anza is located in Cupertino, home to a little company called Apple, and has been an influence on its growth since the beginning. Steve Wozniak went there (as did Steve Jobs, early enrollment I believe). The De Anza-Foothill system is seen as a leading light in workforce education, anticipating and meeting the needs of the community, and preparing students for university education. A good number of its students (I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I remember it being substantially higher than average) get snapped up by companies after just two years. De Anza is one of the biggest employers in Cupertino. Apple launched the original Macintosh, the iMac, and the iPhone 6 at the college.
Quote from: acme54321 on November 19, 2015, 01:05:11 PM
Have any other community colleges in the state done this before? If FSCJ is on the front of this they could be on to something and may be able to shift their demographics to more of a traditional college experience. It seems like that would be great for the school and downtown as a whole. I would imagine if this project is successful they may pursue others downtown too.
There are several other converted state colleges that offer dorms. Last time I looked (about 6-9 months ago) I think I found three state colleges with dorms or plans for them and even one community college as well. No idea if they were part of downtown revitalization (doubtful)
Quote from: RattlerGator on November 18, 2015, 10:13:33 PM
Dorms for 60 students?
Sigh.
We need UNF to build a big-azz dorm downtown -- they've been very conservative with the growth of their university, especially when you compare that to USF, UCF, FAU and FIU. That's not a criticism; it has led to a distinctive campus and university. But it's time for some creative, urban thinking to complement what they've done on campus.
FSCJ can never supply a vital boost of young students for downtown. They just can't.
UNF can. Do a joint project with UF; offer housing to their Pharmacy and Health Science Center students. Whatever, however; we need UNF downtown.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/ron-littlepage/2014-10-03/story/ron-littlepage-downtown-campus-would-benefit-unf-and-city
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/education/os-ucf-downtown-campus-update-20150924-story.html
QuoteThe building would have classrooms for nearly 4,000 UCF students and about 350 Valencia students studying fields such as social work, health information technology, health sciences and legal studies.
UCF also seeks to build a 300-bed dormitory and a 600-space parking garage, using bonds to build the structures and paying them off with parking fees and housing revenue.
FSCJ 60 beds vs UCF 300 beds? Come on; UNF can do that. There's no way in hell UNF can't do that.
Better 60 beds than 0 beds.......yes? Keep working on enticing and prodding UNF to do the same but on a much larger scale; on the other hand, don't turn this down. Every little bit helps.
This is a reasonable investment for the city and a great location for housing.