Rail without the FTA: Detroit
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4027-2-5-2_lrt-aerial-image_after.jpg)
Private-sector money behind a $103 million light-rail transit loop on Detroit's Woodward Avenue could cut 20 years off the planning process of bringing light rail to America's Motor City. Is anyone in the Mayor's Office and JTA paying attention?
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/733
Is anyone in the Mayor's Office and JTA paying attention?
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/733 (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/733)
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Nice article. I'm sure that the JTA and City Hall is listening. Keep talking to them and they will understand.
Looks like a great plan. Just curious, how well does the pedestrian access to the stations work with the line being in the median of the roadway versus one side or the other?
Jason, traditionally this type of station was very popular, it is called "Safety Island" stations. Access is the old way, WALK - DON'T WALK and RUN!
Ocklawaha
Great for exercize and increasing motor skills.. :)
Canal Street in New Orleans gives you an idea of what the system could look like.
(http://www.heritagetrolley.org/IMAGES/NewOrleans50.jpg)
:) I would very much like to see this happen. I would use it. I have been to New Orleans many times transporting my kids to visit their Dad who lives in Gray, La. I have used this trolley system on Canal Street. By the way to Lakelander-that's a good picture you took of Canal Stret. I used to stay at the Radison on Canal Street. They say it changed hands and is something else now. I don't go there any more. My boys fly by themselves now. I use the Trolley in the mornings and the skyway in the afternoon. I apreciate what we have, but we are in need of more. Bigger and better systems of transportation.
Poor Canal Street, sad photo! Until the bus jerk's got hold on the Crescent City in the 1960's, this was the Worlds only 6 track streetcar line... Talk about grand Junction. I got there in time to see them pulling up track all over town. Funny, the photo reminds me of the death of streetcars. Thank God New Orleans woke up and saved one line and most of their cars. We dropped an A bomb on ours.
Ocklawaha
(http://static.flickr.com/2271/1601385344_3bc12e988b.jpg)
This photo is from the 1929 streetcar strike. Two strikes became VERY violent, both here and New Orleans the National Guard had to escort the cars. Several of our cars were ambushed with gunfire and rocks. Blood was shed too... Note the 4 track mainline. Somehow, I recall there was 6 tracks at one of the intersections but looking at this I don't see it... bad memory? Or wrong intersection?
Ocklawaha
Nice picture. So since then, automobiles took the entire street over, before they bought back two streetcar tracks a few years ago.
Yes, and go back a few years before this shot and you'll see that the track wasn't paved it was landscaped.
Autopia!
However, call it the streetcars revenge....*SIC SEMPER CAROS
*and thus to ALL automobiles...
Ocklawaha
I believe that the editors of metrojacksonville.com must provide the following clarification:
Except for one, all of the images shown in the article are from the dtogs.com web site, the City of Detroit Department of Transportation's project, which is separate from the privately-funded rail transit project featured in the article.
The image that has got Wayne State University misspelled is the only image that is not attributable to the DDOT project.
Please visit www.dtogs.com to verify this comment.
Thank you in advance to the editors of metrojacksonville.com for issuing the necessary errata.
Thanks, Amanlapaz.
Although the images show the example of what light rail may look like on the same street in the same stretch as the proposed private line, The images are not as important as the focal point of private companies banding together to get the start of a mass transit solution underway. Nevertheless, as the Detroit plan moves forward we'll certainly make an effort to update this thread with the proper material.
Welcome to Detroit back in the day. This is the Interurban (long distance - high speed electric railway) system centered on Detroit. You may recall (or just look it up in the updated online references) that General Motors and a Ford division were at the heart of the destruction of over 46 electic rail systems in our country and the busification of America. Yet it seems whats good for Detroit wasn't good for Jacksonville... They sold us on going all bus, Trolleys were "old", "slow", "dangerous" etc... Why we even won the national safety award the year we shut down our trolleys.
(http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~erohan/streetcarmap.jpg)
Now here is where the story gets REALLY WEIRD, those big shots at NATIONAL CITY LINES, AMERICAN CITY LINES, or MOTOR TRANSIT COMPANY (JAX) took their orders from GM, Firestone, White, Phillips and Standard Oil (and God knows I'll jump out the window if I found my uncle Goodrich in that bunch! HA HA) So we have the closing of dozens of area trolley lines, the quick replacement of buses, the counting of coin for future pavement, oil, gas, replacement vehicles and for a time even revenue. So the big interurban in Detroit is in touble, they must wipe out much local service as the villians tighten the rope. Then comes this interesting photo, In the midst of all of this "trolleys are horrible for YOUR CITY talk", GM orders a completely new electric Interurban route to serve some of their new production facilities! WHY? Because trolley freight and commuter service had better speed and capacity! SAY WHAT? Oh and over at FORD... They built the electric Detroit-Toledo Electric Railway. Go figure Jacksonville... Anyone want to buy a Silver Dome?
(http://www.indianahistory.org/ihs_press/web_publications/railroad/images/keenan_031.jpg)
Here is the interurban freight in Northern Indiana, service to Detroit, GM and FORD! Superior service, "SPEED - SAFETY - COMFORT" Those words were on the side of my first train ride and I'll never forget it or them. Los Angeles to Long Beach in time one could only dream of today. So perhaps "What goes around comes around?"
Detroit may redeem herself yet. I have that copy of Railway Age (if anyone is interested) and it goes FAR beyond Detroit. In fact it speaks about a new age transformation of the Transit World... of casting out decades of stupid planning demons. If you were going to write of the demons of Transit, where would you cast out the first ones? DETROIT!
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/gatewaycityca/pery.jpg)
Ocklawaha
All I know, if a city like Detroit can begin to pull itself around with innovative thinking, anything is possible for Jacksonville with the right leadership in place.
Interesting. Suburbanites in Metro Detroit are fighting for a commuter rail station. This is the line that officials decided to move forward on anyway, after it was rejected by the FTA for funding. It should serve as an example of what needs to be done here if we want a decent alternate method of transit before we all leave the Earth.
Quote3 cities look to land key train stop
(http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C4&Date=20080512&Category=NEWS05&ArtNo=805120367&Ref=AR&Profile=1007&MaxW=550&MaxH=650&title=0)
BY CECIL ANGEL • FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER • May 12, 2008
When a long-planned commuter rail line eventually begins taking hundreds of passengers daily between Ann Arbor and Detroit, Joyce Parker wants Inkster to be in the mix.
As Inkster's city manager, she knows what a train stop would mean for a city with high unemployment and where only 1 in 3 households have access to a car, Parker said.
"It opens up opportunities," she said.
After three decades of starts and stops in planning a regional mass transit rail system in southeast Michigan, the commuter rail link between Ann Arbor and Detroit -- with a stop in Dearborn -- is slowly moving toward reality, according to the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments.
With gasoline prices creeping up, such a rail line would be an alternative for commuters, and jobs, retail options and tax dollars to the cities where the train stops.
But snagging a place on the route won't be easy. Westland and Wayne are vying for the same stop. Wayne is touting its redeveloped downtown as a natural fit for such a station. Westland points to available land near a heavy retail area.
The winning city would provide shuttle service to Metro Airport.
The move comes as the City of Detroit studies plans for a light-rail line from downtown to 8 Mile.
"I think the climate in the region has really changed and they realize the benefits of transit," said Lovevett Williams, interim director of the Detroit Department of Transportation.
SEMCOG and other supporters of a regional rail system say the Ann Arbor-Detroit commuter line will be in operation by 2010. The corridor is ripe for such project, according to SEMCOG, because it has four of the 10 largest cities in southeast Michigan and the major employment centers of Detroit, Dearborn and Ann Arbor. A final cost for the project hasn't been set.
The commuter line will use the existing Amtrak train line from Chicago to Pontiac. A shuttle would ferry passengers from the new station to Metro Airport.
Ann Arbor, Dearborn and Detroit all have Amtrak stations and are guaranteed stops.
For Wayne, Westland and Inkster, a new stop could mean an economic boost.
Some studies have shown that for every dollar invested in mass transit, a community can reap $7 to $8 in economic benefit. That's because stores, restaurants and other businesses spring up around commuter transit stops to take advantage of the flow of customers.
"That's part of the reason we've been pushing so hard in regards to this issue," Parker said.
Train service would enable Inkster residents to have access to jobs in other areas and to commute to Wayne State University, the University of Michigan, Eastern Michigan and other schools, Parker said.
The stop would help the city with commercial and retail development. "It certainly would help us market and redevelop the area," said Parker, referring to the city's tax increment finance district.
Wayne makes a push
In Wayne, Peter McInerney, community development director, said officials there see downtown Wayne as the logical and customer-friendly choice.
He said possible locations could be the intersection of Wayne Road and the railroad tracks. There is a new shopping center at Michigan and Wayne where a station could be given space.
"We think that it would provide an attractive setting for people who want to make that airport connection," McInerney said.
Downtown Wayne has some new commercial development including a new shopping center and condos. A station could draw tenants and build demand for condos in the business district, he said.
It could mean a livelier downtown in the evenings with diners and shoppers instead of activity dropping in the early evening, McInerney said.
Westland wants a stop
Westland Planning Director Bruce Thompson said the city has been working with SEMCOG and state lawmakers to make the project a reality.
"If we could be involved, I think it could be wonderful," he said, adding that an empty field at Merriman and Michigan would be a good site for a train station.
The train station has the potential to provide an "economic shot in the arm for that area of Westland," Thompson said.
If the city is chosen, the train station would likely be built at Merriman and Michigan, he said. Carmine Palombo, director of tranportation programs for SEMCOG, said the cities have lobbied for the station, but SEMCOG is still analyzing locations.
Among the issues being analyzed is the ease and speed at which the service can be provided.
"That will be the criteria we'll weigh the heaviest," Palombo said.
Another city eyeing the project is Dearborn, whose officials foresee a direct link between U-M in Ann Arbor and the University of Michigan-Dearborn. City officials want to spend between $12 million and $15 million to build an Intermodal Rail Passenger Station.
Barry Murray, director of Economic and Community Development for Dearborn, said the station would be relocated from the Dearborn Civic Center to Elm Street and Michigan Avenue.
"We think it's very important," Murray said. "It makes us more competitive in the arena to attract young professionals."
Meanwhile, Detroit is working on getting its light-rail line running.
Williams said the Michigan Department of Transportation plans to build a station to replace the Amtrak station at Baltimore and Woodward.
The station would serve the Ann Arbor to Detroit and the Woodward Avenue rail systems.
Construction is projected to begin in 2010 on the $371-million light-rail system on Woodward that will run from downtown to the Michigan State Fairgrounds with stops at 13 to 15 stations.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080512/NEWS05/805120367
Very interesting that the Ann Arbor - Detroit "corridor" is but 50 odd miles long. It is being considered for operation by Amtrak, with plans for 8 trains daily, each way. 3 morning, 3 evening, 1 noon hour, 1 late evening. It is interesting because it is VERY similar in demographics and distances to Jacksonville-Baldwin-Starke- Alachua-Gainesville. We wanted to discuss this at the Jacksonville Rail meeting. In fact the entire citizens board seemed willing to push this into the plan and see what JTA could do...
We were told to Sush and "stay on topic"...
Oh and what a topic, did you know that Gainesville Transit just completely rebuilt the old ACL station downtown (where the train would terminate) and turned it into the bus transit center. I know, I know, "shut up Bob..."
Welcome to Jacksonville, don't confuse us with ideas or facts!
Ocklawaha
The last meeting was a timed one that they had an agenda they wanted to get to, regarding potential station locations. On top of that, the lady taking questions was there to promote the Orlando rail deal and clearly had no knowledge of Amtrak. So it was really not the right time, although working something out with Amtrak has merit.
Maybe its time to schedule another meeting with JTA, along with an Amtrak representative, to see if there is a way for us to work together to get some sort of service up and running soon.
Looks like Detroit is moving away from their light rail plans and if i am not mistaken it looks like they will be running BRT and LRT parallel to each other on Woodward Ave.
http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/12/18/in-a-failure-of-municipal-ambition-plans-for-detroit-light-rail-shut-down-as-focus-shifts-to-brt/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thetransportpolitic+%28The+Transport+Politic%29
Interesting. Detroit's LRT plan grew out of big companies between DT and New Center pulling $100 million of their own money for their own line 3-mile line. Is that private money still on the table? Btw, i'm sure the BRT alternative will be BRT-lite and not dedicated busways. If this is the case, if I'm Detroit, I'd probably call the entire thing off. No reason throwing that much cash into transit if you already can't pay for it, the burbs won't contribute to it, and it's not going to spur economic development in a community that desperately needs it.
not sure.
If, I'm the private sector guys, I'd consider taking my $100 million back and going with a cheaper streetcar version of original shorter proposal between New Center/Amtrak and DT. That at least gives you some decent connectivity long term between DT, those companies, the airport, and Ann Arbor/UM.
I would too.
Yes but we have designed a brilliant plan to help developers build Wendy's restaurants and gated communities far from town. All we have to do is make sure they pay no taxes and settle the bill for any new, roads utilities and schools they need where no man has gone before.
So there Detroit.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 19, 2011, 01:44:05 PM
If, I'm the private sector guys, I'd consider taking my $100 million back and going with a cheaper streetcar version of original shorter proposal between New Center/Amtrak and DT. That at least gives you some decent connectivity long term between DT, those companies, the airport, and Ann Arbor/UM.
Apparently that is exactly what they are planning to do.
QuoteCullen said the M1 Rail group supports the proposed bus system but does not think it should interrupt their original plan for the 3.4-mile light rail system. In fact, he said there is "unanimity" among stakeholders -- investors, board members, business associations -- to continue to push hard for the M1 line.
"We're very confident still that the money is in place to build this from a private standing point," he said.
Read the entire article here: http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2011/12/m1_ceo_matt_cullen_private_inv.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2011/12/m1_ceo_matt_cullen_private_inv.html)
Detroit forum members of SSP aren't taking the news well:
Quote from: fishrose;5515609If anyone needs me I'll be in the bathroom slitting my wrists... :dead:
Quote from: iheartthed;5515631Detroit is dead. Long live Detroit.
I just can't see how all of that recent momentum in Detroit continues without this project.
Quote from: LMich;5515874So, they work at this for nearly five years, now, non-stop. As recently as a few months ago, LaHood & Co. are grinning ear-to-ear saying the thing is imminent while the entire time, LaHood and Bing are behind closed doors taking the piss out on the idea. As recently as monday, the Detroit City Council was interviewing candidates to put on the board to get the project moving.
What has changed? This idea that the powers-that-be just figured out Detroit wouldn't be able to completely fund operations is total bullsh%t, sorry. And, if the operating money is the problem, wouldn't regionalizing the system solve this? The capital costs have never been the problem. The Feds have gifted this project hundreds-of-millions of dollars for the construction of the project over many years, now. This is not to mention that the city council as recently as may approved the sell of $125 million in bonds to keep moving this thing forward, and also the millions from the private backers of this.
Anyone who doesn't feel cheated or duped by this isn't being genuine. This is a complete shock and a shameless double-cross. To hell with Bing and Snyder and LaHood and the whole lot of them. You literally use five years to build up massive anticipation for this project, and in a single, backroom deal, you dash everyone's hopes a few days before Christmas?
Excuse my French, but F%ck Detroit. Let her go bankrupt, already. Good luck with the BRT, too. Leave it to Metro Detroit to build up something to its literal peak for years, and then half-ass it or let if fail altogether. There are probably but a few metro areas in this world that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with such consistency and with such awe-inspiring skill.
Epicfail, Detroit; epic fail.
Quote from: iheartthed;5515905Almost every Detroit redevelopment project in the works worth talking about was along or near the proposed route of this line. The Detroit Whole Foods was a block from one of the proposed stops. The day before this announcement Starwood's Aloft brand announced that it would operate a new hotel at the David Whitney along the line. Nearly everything going on in Detroit worth talking about was in some way tied to this light rail line! I really don't see how that momentum continues. Detroit has a certain talent for killing its own potential. I wondered how the region would kill its own momentum this time around. I have my answer. Talk about shaking investor confidence...
I'm a native Detroiter. I saw this as probably the last chance for that city to start resembling a functioning city again while I am still in my productive years. I doubt I will ever see it.
And anyone who thinks that a BRT plan will actually come to fruition... Please don't hold your breath. That's how Detroit does these things. They give you some grand promise then once they get expectations to the highest level possible they say "wait, sorry we can't do that but we can give you this half assed backup plan". Then the final result is like half as good as the half-assed backup plan. Everything that isn't a freeway receives the half-assed backup plan's backup plan treatment.
Quote from: Hayward;5516380Light rail is indeed a big commitment, and it's a promise of a fixed route system that gives developers an incentive to construct along the line. Don't take me literally, but BRT isn't something that you can take all that seriously. It's easy to cut a bus line, but far more difficult to shut down light rail.
This has been discussed at DYES and here, but posters are correct that BRT is strictly about mobility. I'm not convinced that it can stimulate more development along corridors, and any evidence used to say otherwise occurs in cities supplemented by other systems.
I also agree that bus improvements will assist the general population, except that it will facilitate movement to jobs outside the city. To be honest, I'd prefer maintain operation and reliability of lines to move Detroiters to job centers in the suburbs, but greatly enhance lines that would assist in more job creation downtown. Without the light rail plan, you aren't fostering new development, which creates more jobs downtown...... .... And btw this isn't reshuffling jobs either, LRT is an attractive feature of a city for new residents outside the state who may want to relocate.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=158391&page=10
Fight in Detroit!
QuoteBing fires back at business leaders, defends expanded bus transit
Detroit - Mayor Dave Bing bristled at suggestions Friday that he cut business leaders out of a plan to scrap light rail in favor of rapid-transit buses, saying he was elected to represent everyday citizens first.
"People forget who voted me in office," Bing told The Detroit News in an interview. "The citizens voted me in office and I have to represent them.
"The business community is an important part of the city, (but) I have to look out for the majority who live and work here. Woodward (light rail) is not going to be the answer for the people with transportation needs. This is a better solution, without a doubt."
Bing's comments were in response to letter released Friday by The Downtown Detroit Partnership, a group representing more than 100 local businesses. The group protested that it wasn't included in a decision to scrap a proposed $500 million light rail project along Woodward Avenue in favor of a rapid-transit regional bus system.
It's "unacceptable" that business leaders were not involved, said Cindy Pasky, chairwoman of the partnership's board of directors.
Given the time and effort that city businesses and leaders committed to the project, they were owed a discussion before the announcement was made, she said in the letter.
"What is wrong is that the leaders of Detroit's business community were not part of the discussion," wrote Pasky, president and CEO of Strategic Staffing Solutions. "They should have been at the table. The fact that they were not is completely unacceptable."
Pasky's letter said light rail is among the initiatives Detroit needs to move forward and become a "world-class city again."
"One of those things (needed) is to create affordable, reliable mass transportation that will spur economic development downtown, encourage our young talent to stay in Detroit and connect people to their jobs," the letter said.
But Bing said he is not backing off his belief that the regional bus plan is better, particularly since Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood this week made it clear the federal government is not putting any money into the light rail project. He pointed out he's been involved in ongoing conversations with Matt Cullen, a local business leader and CEO if the M1 Rail group, along the way.
LaHood this week announced federal, state and city leaders are now backing a 34-station, four-line rapid bus system instead of a proposed $500 million light-rail line up Woodward. LaHood said Detroit didn't have the required funding to make a light-rail system work, either in matching funds or long-term operations.
LaHood met with members of the Michigan congressional delegation to discuss the shift. He has pledged millions if southeast Michigan can agree on a regional transit plan.
The proposed light rail system was supposed to be underwritten by a $100 million investment from private investors, including Peter Karmanos, Mike Ilitch and others, to fund the first stretch of tracks from Hart Plaza to the New Center area.
"We can't have a first-class city until we do the fundamentals. The fundamentals (are) getting regional bus transportation in place first," Bing said. "What we've done is create an opportunity for regional transportation that's never been achieved in the last 40 to 50 years. That's more important than one line going up Woodward Avenue.
"I'm pretty clear for my reasons for this. I answer to the people of Detroit. It's as simple as that."
http://www.detnews.com/article/20111216/METRO/112160436/Bing-fires-back-business-leaders-defends-expanded-bus-transit?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
Quote from: LMich;5515874Leave it to Metro Detroit to build up something to its literal peak for years, and then half-ass it or let if fail altogether. There are probably but a few metro areas in this world that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with such consistency and with such awe-
I feel this guy's pain.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 19, 2011, 10:14:18 PM
Detroit forum members of SSP aren't taking the news well:
Quote from: iheartthed;5515631Detroit is dead. Long live Detroit.
I just can't see how all of that recent momentum in Detroit continues without this project.
Take heart my Detroit friends. Just look at Jacksonville for inspiration, we've done nothing with our small fixed transit system, and have completely ignored a spiderweb of railroad tracks. The opportunity to be the first city with a heritage streetcar system in a city BUILT ON STREETCAR LINES, has been blown off for 30+ years.
But hey we're knocking them dead, downtown is alive with offices, eateries, and a booming residential market... We have a moratorium on funding fixed transit too. Just don't try and keep up Detroit, we're the new American boom town...
Jacksonville spells Mass Transit with a four letter word, R O A D.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: dougskiles on December 20, 2011, 06:22:17 AM
Quote from: LMich;5515874Leave it to Metro Detroit to build up something to its literal peak for years, and then half-ass it or let if fail altogether. There are probably but a few metro areas in this world that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with such consistency and with such awe-
I feel this guy's pain.
I do too. Jacksonville had smart conscientious put together a Mobility Fee plan that would improve the QOL here. Then we had to watch the City Council pass it and pretend they really care about the people they represent. Only to suffer the humiliation of that same council hollering "the little people don't matter" and harpooning the plan for the Insider GOB strip mall developers.
"Jacksonville where the City Council really likes Wendy's burgers".
Check this out...Randal O'Toole threatens that, with light rail, Detroit might be like Denver or Portland!
http://www.detnews.com/article/20111209/MIVIEW/112090374/1467/OPINION01/Deja-voodoo--Detroit-rail-repeats-other-cities--mistakes
LOL, is it safe to O'Toole has a problem with light rail?
O'Toole is getting paid a ton of money to "think" like that.
I am particularly amused by the part when he talks about developers being subsidized by tax increment financing at TODs that could otherwise be used for fire, police, schools and libraries. What he fails to mention is that most TODs are in areas that already have these services in place, and in many ways underutilized. Contrast that to the real subsidy of expanded highways to the fringe that have no mechanism for funding - except for the impact fees that our state legislature wants to eliminate.
I know I am preaching to the choir here but this is the comment I made on the OToole article.
QuoteI guess if you leave out of the equation the economic benefits to the community of transit then economically it doesn't make sense. The fact that transit contributes to it's operating expense (unlike other public services) is always held against it. Transit brings in roughly 6 dollars of development money for every dollar spent. Ticket fares contribute 40 to 80% of operating costs. (ever see a fireman do that). Transit is a public service that contributes to the quality of life in a community like police service and the community pays for it.
Jeffrey...O'Toole isn't preaching agansit transit (this time)...he just likes buses over rail
My comments should have specified fixed transit.
I must admit, has this guy ever visited Detroit? Knowing the condition of Detroit, it's hard to use Portland and Denver as bad examples, no matter what the subject is. He's railing off about TIF but in Detroit's case, its probably exactly what they should do. That city is boxed in by burbs that have their own municipal governments. Whatever tax breaks/programs they can give or implement to attract new infill development should be considered.
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 20, 2011, 04:25:20 PM
Check this out...Randal O'Toole threatens that, with light rail, Detroit might be like Denver or Portland!
http://www.detnews.com/article/20111209/MIVIEW/112090374/1467/OPINION01/Deja-voodoo--Detroit-rail-repeats-other-cities--mistakes
O'Toole is your A typical, big oil, big highway, conservative jackass. He makes a living by throwing mud at important transit projects, particularly rail. The man hates rail and why not, he gets paid for it.
I just sent the following to the Huffington Post comment section under the story, 'With Detroit Light Rail Canceled, Advocates Make The Case For Bus Rapid Transit.'
QuoteAs a transportation consultant who spent years in Colombia, we need to put this in context..
Colombia and Brasil have a vested interest in selling the BRT technologyÂ. Most would readily admit that Bogota's Trans-MeliÂneio BRT may be more famous, it is far from the best. Medellin has a rail based Metro http://wwwÂ.metrodemeÂdellin.govÂ.co/index.Âphp?lang=eÂn
In modern Colombian cities there are literally millions of people who cannot afford a car and never will. Traffic creeps along in gridlock conditionsÂ. In Colombia however, mobility is never in question, any where, any time, any direction. Sad to say this challenge is not being met in the United States.
But these conditions cannot be transferreÂd onto the profiles of cities in the United States. In Bogota where traffic might move at two miles per hour, a bus moving at 20 seems to be flying. That isn't going to work in Detroit.
So while both Colombia and Brasil are touting their BRT success stories, both Bogota and Curitiba are currently building metro rail systems. VISIT: http://wwwÂ.metroenboÂgota.com/mÂovilidad-bÂogota/las-Â7-propuestÂas-con-lasÂ-petro-quiÂere-ganarlÂe-la-inmovÂilidad-de-Âbogota or http://wwwÂ.metro.curÂitiba.pr.gÂov.br/
BRT promoters in the US will probably claim that the BRT in South America was the seed that planted 'rail,' nothing could be farther from the truth. South America has been there, done that and rail is the clear winner.
OCKLAWAHA
metrojacksÂonville.coÂm
OCKLAWAHA
here's another article on the shift in plan
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052970204844504577100660265044228-lMyQjAxMTAxMDEwODExNDgyWj.html?mod=wsj_share_ema
This is all that matters if I'm in that local leadership group who ponied up their cash for economic development in core Detroit instead of extending LRT or buses all over town:
QuoteLocal business leaders had a more limited plan in mind, a 3.2-mile privately funded rail line linking two busy commercial and cultural centers. But at the urging of the city and federal officials, organizers expanded the project to extend more than nine miles, from downtown to the city's northern boundary, sending the construction estimates toward $600 million.
Part ways and take your money and develop your original privately funded rail line because that was a sound project for that particular corridor. The FTA, Mayor Bing, and the State can work together to fund better bus service and respond to transportation and political issues the original $100 million were never meant to solve.
A change of heart in Detroit. The executives of the companies who donated their money want LRT, not BRT.
QuoteDetroit â€" Light rail is back on the table for Detroit, but private backers of the project have 90 days to convince officials the plan is viable, Mayor Dave Bing said Friday.
The announcement came after a meeting between Bing, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Gov. Rick Snyder, lawmakers and business leaders supporting the M-1 rail project.
Last month, officials agreed to scrap the proposed light rail up Woodward in favor of a series of high-speed buses. But after a chorus of criticism from transit advocates and private backers, the plan for 3.4 miles of light rail along Woodward from the New Center area into downtown Detroit is back under consideration, Bing said.
"Some time ago, there was an announcement made that light rail is off the table," Bing told reporters after the meeting Friday. "Based on the conversation that we've had today and the agreements we've had, we see light rail as a part of regional transportation. Light rail is not dead. … All of us are on the same page, understanding how important transportation is going to be in Detroit, southeastern Michigan and the state."
...
"Transit is important to our state," Snyder said. "It's about working well together, and that's what this meeting was about today. M-1 can be an important sub-component and one (that) can be critical to the downtown future.
"We're going to be working hard in Lansing working on doing a regional transit authority. At the same time, the M-1 group will be working hard over next 90 days to continue their plan to show how viable it is. Hopefully we'll be able to merge them together."
...
"We have $100 million in commitments and four or five years of preliminary design," said Gilbert, founder of Quicken Loans and co-chairman of M-1 Rail Inc., last month. "It doesn't make a lot of sense to kill something that has proven in Portland, Denver, Minneapolis, Miami and San Diego to create commerce and jobs along the route."
full article: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120106/METRO/201060409/-Light-rail-not-dead-Private-backers-given-time-push-project-Detroit?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
Sounds like Gilbert is very up to date on his urbanism, or he is another of the worlds several million rail fans... Interestingly enough, people from the mayor of BRT Curitiba, and BRT Bogota, to Joseph Carmine Bonanno are understanding and investing in Rail transit (hell, Joe even owned part of Lionel for a time... don't ask me how I know this, I just do LOL), leaving Jacksonville in their wake.
http://www.metro.curitiba.pr.gov.br/
http://www.metroenbogota.com/
Once again the world is passing us by, bravo Mr. Gilbert.
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteLight Rail In Detroit Not Dead As Bing, Snyder Back Private Plan For Shorter Line
HUFFINGTON POST
Mayor Dave Bing and Gov. Rick Snyder met with Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood Friday to discuss plans to revive a proposed light rail system in Detroit.
Bing and Snyder had announced in December that plans for an eight mile stretch of light rail up Woodward Avenue would be canceled in favor of building a larger rapid bus network for the region. LaHood had expressed concern that Detroit would not be able to pay for the $528 million rail project, nor properly fund the rail line over the long term.
At the time, the backers of the proposed M1 light rail system, and other members of the business community, said they would push forward with their plans to build a shorter line.
They will now have 90 days to put together a proposal that shows they've planned for construction and operating costs for a 3.4 mile line that would be integrated into a regional transit system. Private investors have committed $80 million so far, and hope to reach $100 million.
LaHood and previously promised $25 million in federal funding to the project, but whether that money will come through appears dependent on how much the private investors can raise. There had been some talk of that TIGER grant money going to the proposed bus rapid transit (BRT) system instead.
Bing said new agreements would allow light rail to be part of the proposed regional transit system.
"Light rail is not dead," Bing said. "It's back on the table, but it's part of the BRT system."
Snyder agreed that the M1 plan would fit into a regional system.
"This partnership's going to move forward in parallel process," he said, adding officials would continue work on the proposed bus system.
We some Gilberts in Jacksonville!
I figured it was about time for an update. As said here a few months ago, backers (Detroit's version of Jax's Civic Council) of bringing a fixed rail starter line to urban Detroit are moving along on their own:
QuoteWoodward light rail line group says it will pay for first 10 years of operations
By Matt Helms | Detroit Free Press
April 23, 2012
The private-sector group that wants to build a 3-mile light rail line on Woodward Avenue from downtown Detroit to the New Center said today it has raised all of the money it will need to build the line â€" and is pledging to fund the operations of the system privately for the first 10 years after it’s built.
The M-1 Rail Group outlined the details in a report it has sent to the federal government. The group of private investors and philanthropic groups behind the effort said they would commit to paying the estimated $5.1 million annual cost of operating the Woodward rail line through 2025.
That’s a significant step for the project. How to pay for operating the system has been a key point of contention in a city that’s now under a consent deal with the state to oversee its finances and plans to slash millions from its annual appropriations for the city’s bus system.
The group would then donate the project’s assets to the appropriate agency, such as a regional transit authority that Gov. Rick Snyder and the Legislature are working to create for southeast Michigan to oversee a big new network of rapid-transit buses on Woodward, Michigan Avenue, Gratiot and Hall Roads connecting Detroit to key suburbs, Metro Airport and Ann Arbor.
The project would still require nearly $40 million in federal funding that M-1 Rail said the feds have already committed for construction of the rail line.
(http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C4&Date=20120423&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=120423048&Ref=V1&MaxW=300&Border=0&Woodward-Avenue-light-rail-line-M-1-Rail-Group) (http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C4&Date=20120423&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=120423048&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Woodward-light-rail-line-group-says-will-pay-first-10-years-operations)
full article: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120423/METRO05/204230407#ixzz1steDjQhB
so i wonder if we could get the same type of business support here in Jacksonville? Downtown to Riverside line???
I'm planning to check this corridor out in an hour or two. Construction started about a week ago. My family up here has told me that developers have been aggressively buying up as much property as possible within walking distance of the proposed starter streetcar line.
QuoteM1 Rail has finally set a date. Construction on the 3.3-mile streetcar system is scheduled to begin on Monday, July 28. According to a press release, Woodward Avenue will be completely closed from Adams to Campus Martius for roughly 120 days. Despite the project's sluggish pace and a setback in funding, M1 still predicts the $160M system will be up and running by late 2016.
full article: http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2014/06/m1-rail-officially-begins-construction-july-28th-for-real.php
I read about the move forward last week. Curious to see how this proceeds.