National study claims Jacksonville's parks need help
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2548634809_7F5STKp-M.jpg)
According to the Trust for Public Land, the City of Jacksonville needs significant improvement in providing park access to its residents. Here's a look at the Trust for Public Land's annual ParkScore ranking of the park systems in America's 50 largest cities.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jun-national-study-claims-jacksonvilles-parks-need-help
When I first visited Jacksonville, I made trips to Riverside/Memorial Park, Met Park (with Kids Kampus), and Hanna Park. I was impressed. When I considered a move here, I saw the size of the park system and assumed that there would be lots of quality parks. Then, I moved here...
If they had looked at the CONDITION of the parks, Jax probably would have scored even lower.
The best part is that the parks department has convinced themselves that our parks are awesome.
not surprised.
While this looks good for identifying particular areas that need work, consolidation appears to affect our ranking on the overall "park score". The suburban areas appear to be in the highest need, but those areas aren't counted for other cities. The urban core is obviously much better off in this regard than the burbs. Not particularly helpful.
^^^Are we really going to blame this one on consolidation, too? Jacksonville's park system is attrocious. There really is not one truly high quality park that is impeccably maintained or generally useful and the Riverwalk is an example of a park that is maintained, but never built to world class standard. In fact, the park system in NE FL, and probably most FL cities overall, is embarassing to the point where the city's P&R Dept should just never speak (should certainly not TOUT the system!).
Most of those tiny green squares and circles in urban Jax are still pieces of land with unmowed grass, tagged walls, unkempt pathways, no landscaping, rotting benches, etc. It's PATHETIC.
And this is not even to mention the fact that there is very limited public waterfront access. Most of Jax parkland is "land" (mitigation?) where nobody lives or goes. LoL.
See my epic post on how rich people aren't towing the line in Jax in the other parks thread started by Jfman00.
I think this is great for identifying areas where more green space is needed. I also agree with Simms that our park system blows.
I'm so curious if the privatization of the waterfront, as simms3 so eloquently described in the other thread could feasibly be reversed.
Quote from: simms3 on June 06, 2013, 10:55:03 AM
^^^Are we really going to blame this one on consolidation, too? Jacksonville's park system is attrocious. There really is not one truly high quality park that is impeccably maintained or generally useful and the Riverwalk is an example of a park that is maintained, but never built to world class standard. In fact, the park system in NE FL, and probably most FL cities overall, is embarassing to the point where the city's P&R Dept should just never speak (should certainly not TOUT the system!).
Most of those tiny green squares and circles in urban Jax are still pieces of land with unmowed grass, tagged walls, unkempt pathways, no landscaping, rotting benches, etc. It's PATHETIC.
And this is not even to mention the fact that there is very limited public waterfront access. Most of Jax parkland is "land" (mitigation?) where nobody lives or goes. LoL.
See my epic post on how rich people aren't towing the line in Jax in the other parks thread started by Jfman00.
I'm not "blaming" anything on anything. However, we're being judged by hundreds of square miles of suburban and rural area that isn't included for other cities. Lo and behold, many of the other consolidated and/or large land areas cities are toward the bottom. I wonder if the suburbs of cities with higher scores really hold up.
I've been fortunate enough to travel quite a bit (I know Simms and Lakelander have as well) and I always make a point to visit each cities key parks and peak my head into small neighborhood parks. I too confirm that our cities park system is atrocious. Though I think there is probably a correlation between a cities density and quality of parks. Everyone in Jacksonville has their own greenspace, which is not the case in most European cities or the most dense North American cities. That said even in our more dense neighborhoods the parks are substandard. Memorial Park and Klutho Park would be immaculate in virtually every other city around. Heck you don't even have to look very far or very big. Look at Forsyth Park in Savannah or Capital Cascades Park (getting built) in Tallahassee.
Question is can Jacksonville even afford to make the necessary capital improvements to bring us up to par?
Quote from: JFman00 on June 06, 2013, 11:32:04 AM
I'm so curious if the privatization of the waterfront, as simms3 so eloquently described in the other thread could feasibly be reversed.
Sure, if the city wanted to buy up a lot of very expensive land. It's hard enough to get it done out in the boonies, and you get a lot more acreage out there.
Quote from: CityLife on June 06, 2013, 11:36:45 AM
Question is can Jacksonville even afford to make the necessary capital improvements to bring us up to par?
It's not a matter of "can", it's a matter of "will". We "can" do almost anything, but it's unlikely it will when our leaders won't deal with our budget issues in a meaningful way.
^^True, and also to CityLife's point, people in Jax have their own land and probably don't care as much about public land (though if you ask me it would seem most people don't care so much about their own private land either!). Though frankly, people in Atlanta also have land, maybe not typically as much (though the rich in Atl have far more land than the rich in Jax), but yards nonetheless, and that's a city with lots of truly great parks and high public and private spending on public land.
I think it partly comes down to attitudes. Folks in Jax are more "family oriented" and insular than folks in other cities, it would seem. While folks in many cities may have their own yards, as well, there is a greater propensity to want to share public space (and of course you want the space you use and share with others on a regular basis to be clean, safe and well maintained).
I think this is also evident in Jacksonville's nightlife. Only recently have bars begun to sprout up around the city, but Jax to me still seems like a "house party" kind of city.
Politics, too. Liberal people don't mind just throwing it up to the public pot of money, whereas more conservative people want to keep everything and "decide" what to spend their money on regarding public utilities/amenities/services (which as we can all see usually ends up being very little). I think there's a corellation between liberal cities and spending on things such as parks, social services, etc as well as concentration of bars and propensity to live densely/non-privately and play publicly (fewer families as a result), and then Jax and other consolidated/sunbelt cities would be the exact opposite (and thus attract more families).
Interesting points Simms... I also think our lack of a quality parks system may have something to do with our natural outdoor settings, along with our auto centric population. People are used to driving everywhere in Jax, so for many its not an issue to drive to the beach or larger parks/preserves. We have miles and miles of beach, the St. Johns, Hanna Park, Huguenot Park, Little and Big Talbot Island, Guana River Preserve, The Arboreteum, Dutton Island Preserve, Baldwin Trail and so on. Some of those places are truly great places to get away to. If we were in a community without so many natural assets and recreational opportunities, I think there would be a lot more political will and outcry to make the necessary capital investments.
Quote from: Tacachale on June 06, 2013, 11:35:22 AM
Quote from: simms3 on June 06, 2013, 10:55:03 AM
^^^Are we really going to blame this one on consolidation, too? Jacksonville's park system is attrocious. There really is not one truly high quality park that is impeccably maintained or generally useful and the Riverwalk is an example of a park that is maintained, but never built to world class standard. In fact, the park system in NE FL, and probably most FL cities overall, is embarassing to the point where the city's P&R Dept should just never speak (should certainly not TOUT the system!).
Most of those tiny green squares and circles in urban Jax are still pieces of land with unmowed grass, tagged walls, unkempt pathways, no landscaping, rotting benches, etc. It's PATHETIC.
And this is not even to mention the fact that there is very limited public waterfront access. Most of Jax parkland is "land" (mitigation?) where nobody lives or goes. LoL.
See my epic post on how rich people aren't towing the line in Jax in the other parks thread started by Jfman00.
I'm not "blaming" anything on anything. However, we're being judged by hundreds of square miles of suburban and rural area that isn't included for other cities. Lo and behold, many of the other consolidated and/or large land areas cities are toward the bottom. I wonder if the suburbs of cities with higher scores really hold up.
Here is the ParkScore map with the original 30 square mile city limits overlayed on it.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Studies/2013-ParkScore-Study/i-bJTsZR8/0/L/Urban%20Core%20ParkScore%20Map-L.jpg)
The preconsolidated city,
or urban core, seems to already have decent park coverage. Now, the maintenance of these spaces is a completely different story. Areas that lack enough park space appear to be Riverside's Stockton Street corridor, Newtown, College Park, Moncrief and Spring Park. Some of these areas appear to be the result of highways that have cut neighborhoods off from adjacent parks.
Quote from: CityLife on June 06, 2013, 01:56:28 PM
Interesting points Simms... I also think our lack of a quality parks system may have something to do with our natural outdoor settings, along with our auto centric population. People are used to driving everywhere in Jax, so for many its not an issue to drive to the beach or larger parks/preserves. We have miles and miles of beach, the St. Johns, Hanna Park, Huguenot Park, Little and Big Talbot Island, Guana River Preserve, The Arboreteum, Dutton Island Preserve, Baldwin Trail and so on. Some of those places are truly great places to get away to. If we were in a community without so many natural assets and recreational opportunities, I think there would be a lot more political will and outcry to make the necessary capital investments.
Well the "natural environment" explanation can only go so far. Boston, Denver, SF, LA and San Diego all have arguably equivalent or superior natural environments and escapes (even Atlanta has tons of protected land, Stone Mountain, lakes and literally mountains all within the outer reaches of the metro), and yet each of these cities also focuses on building and maintaining great parks and public spaces within the city. If you look at an aerial of SF, you see A LOT of park space in the city, and literally country on the other side of the water - far more beautiful country than in Jax, all preserved (John Muir is from the area and he is the founding father, arguably, of conservation). Plus, yes, there are beaches here too!
The big question is IF all that "parkland" on the westside is for mitigation purposes, what is the city doing horribly wrong to facilitate the legal need to go that route?
It's one thing to set up Talbot/Huguenot as preserved land, obviously, this is all beautiful land with historical references. It's another to buy up and set aside a ton of pine forest on the westside and northside and scattered about town and call it "park space". This is NOT beautiful land or publicly useful.
Again good points...and I agree that those places all have great natural beauty, but you're comparing Jax to some of the wealthiest large cities in the US. The cities you listed are also more dense and less reliant on the car, which I earlier speculated is a factor in the public demand for quality parks. I have family that lives on the border of Muir Woods in Marin County and its a hike and hassle to get there from the city. The beaches in San Fran, while gorgeous are not ideal for swimming. Cold year round and in the middle of the Red Triangle. While the parks and recreation in the Bay Area are enviable, I'm not sure its really an appropriate area to compare Jax to.
I still think money is a big factor too. I haven't confirmed this yet, but was recently told that Atlantic Beach maintains all of Dutton Island Park (a gorgeous intercoastal park), despite a significant portion being located in COJ boundaries. If COJ can't even afford routine maintenance, can it even think of major capital improvements? A homeowner struggling to make mortgage payments isn't going to be putting in new pavers and landscaping anytime soon, despite what their neighbors and peers are doing....
It's all George Bush's fault.............
Money is the major factor. COJ is receptive to neighborhood patronage/subsidies for parks (see the new Balis Park in San Marco Square, or the Stockon renovation), but hasn't taken steps to formalize a policy so this can be done on the regular in neighborhoods with initiative.
Unfortunately, though, such "public/private initiatives" amount to the city's abrogation of responsibility for its resources. While this may be the reality right now, COJ needs more imagination and revenue to plan, maintain, and program the parks we have. The city can't count on private money for all time.
^^^And frankly there is really not that much private money either. Kudos to the folks who stepped up for Balis, Stockton, and Baker parks. However, not to downplay their charity, these parks are also next to their houses, essentially, so it was in the interest of their "backyard" so to speak.
I'd like to see people contribute to more central parks like they contribute to the zoo. The zoo is great, but can we try to replicate that fundraising effort and attention level with public parks? Pointing to Atlanta as a sunbelt example, of course the city has a much larger per capita budget for parks/public space/recreation, but it's not as if Piedmont Park and Centennial Park, Chastain, and any of the great parks there are due to public funds. Piedmont Park runs on a foundation, an endowment so to speak, and has raised something like $120M in private/corporate money over the past 10 years to get it to the point it's at today.
Jax certainly doesn't have the 8 billionaires Atlanta does (as a matter of fact, it's one of the largest cities without a single billionaire!), and it doesn't have the ~14 or 15 F500 HQs and other corporate presence Atlanta has to maintain multitudes of enviable parks, but it DOES have enough citizen/corporate wealth to create just one or two large, central public parks the city can be proud of (parks that will bring people to the center of town, potentially spurring significant economic development).
Millennium Park in Chicago, though more than 3 times over budget, completed with 270 million dollars from the taxpayers, and over 200 million from private donors. The trade-off? The BP Pedestrian Bridge, Exelon Pavilions, Chase Promenade, AT&T Plaza, Boeing Galleries... aside from the relatively short hours, it's a gorgeous park though...
When Peyton ran the first time, he pledged to make the biggest park system into the best. A major study was done that recommended taking city council patronage out of the maintenance/capital improvements process and provided a structure for corporate and non-profit support/funding/volunteer opportunities. It used Minneapolis (#1in the survey) as an example to follow. It mentioned the dramatic underfunding as a problem too.
City council pushed back against giving up their re-election tool, and balked at the plan. Peyton folded and that was the end of that. No leadership, no results.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 06, 2013, 11:21:02 AM
I think this is great for identifying areas where more green space is needed. I also agree with Simms that our park system blows.
^^^Fantastic point. And nowhere is it more highlighted than in our new DIA zone when talking about access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone.
1. RAM dock only opened when RAM is open
2. Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel Berkman Floating Dock compromise misrepresented by OGC during the 2013 FIND grant application process.
3. Palmer Terrace Park and the official Mayor Brown Kayak logo. Dave Roman, Don Redman, where are you?
4. Have absolutely given up on asking you know who about you know what. New parking rules on Bay St. YEAH!!! Go Jack Shad!
5. Sydney Geffen Park and the official Mayor Brown Kayak logo
6. Jacksonville's Downtown International Redneck Kayak launch the envy of our new school superintendent.
7. Downtown Experience for who? DIA subcommittee meeting today at 4pm 1St floor city hall. Highlight will be Happy Hour announcements. Also ask about the Public Access of the floating dock at Shipyards III. There is none.
8. Is there just one MJ'er that will write a check for a buck to 2009-442? artificial Reef Trust Fund?
9. PALMS FISH CAMP- A funding source for any of the above that could be used in joining Mayor Brown and new DIA CEO Aundra Wallace in making Downtown a Destination and not a pass through.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Corporate endowment of parks is a great idea. On the Southbank alone you've got Baptist, Aetna, Prudential, Stein Mart and Suddath. San Marco/St. Nicholas has maybe a dozen parks of varying sizes. Match a corporation with a park and you're off to the races.
I've always believed Jacksonville should have a "mini Central Park" Downtown.
* we have one...its called Hogan's Creek Greenway (Confederate Park)
* Essentially cut off from downtown by Union and State.
It doesn't take more than a minute to brave the crossing of the East/West expressway that is State/Union and get to the greenway from downtown.
I'm about as eager to cross State/Union on foot as I am crossing Roosevelt/17.