QuoteWhat's more expensive than going to college? Until recently, the answer was easy: not going to college. Numerous studies over the years have shown that individuals with college degrees significantly out-earn those with high school degrees by $1 million or more over the course of a lifetime.
But as the cost of education increases faster than inflation and the economy remains relatively weak, people are beginning to question how they spend their education dollars. As student loans hit the $1 trillion mark and more and more graduates are faced with years of paying staggering monthly payments, many are starting to ask themselves, "Is it worth it?"
8. Sociology
7. Fine Arts
6. Education
5. Religious Studies/Theology
4. Hospitality/Tourism
3. Nutrition
2. Psychology
1. Communications
http://salary.com/8-college-degrees-with-the-worst-return-on-investment/
I have a hard time with hospitality being on there. Not sure they were able to differentiate the levels of achievement/salary of those with degrees in each field vs. those without. For instance managers at La Quinta Inn, Holiday Inn, etc with no college experience's salaries may have been used as much as corporate hotel guru's that went to Cornell.
Also, where's English?
That's really dumb. Looking at only jobs that require that degree, rather than what people who earn it actually do, is silly.
Quote from: CityLife on June 05, 2013, 10:00:38 AM
I have a hard time with hospitality being on there. Not sure they were able to differentiate the levels of achievement/salary of those with degrees in each field vs. those without. For instance managers at La Quinta Inn, Holiday Inn, etc with no college experience's salaries may have been used as much as corporate hotel guru's that went to Cornell.
Also, where's English?
It was probably at #9 ;D
Just curious, what degree(s) did the posters here pursue, and are you still in those fields?
My degree was in Economics, but most of my jobs have been in engineering.
BA in English and working on my master's. I didn't do it to get a job in "English", whatever that would be, but because it's what I'm passionate about. My background, particularly the ability to write fairly well, has helped immeasurably in most everything I've done since. My job is only one aspect of my life, but it definitely helps here too.
My degree is in Architecture. I worked in the field for seven years before making the full switch to Planning.
Accounting
My BA is in Sociology, which I feel prepared me quite well to pursue an advanced degree in planning, which is more or less what I've been doing for the past 14 years. The fact that a degree does or does not have a "good" financial return on investment misses the boat on whether or not that degree is worth pursuing. Studying sociology equipped me with the tools to look at the bigger picture and recognize that things are not as black and white as they seem. STEM programs are important, but so is nurturing creative and critical thinking.
BA in Political Economy, concentration in IR. Military aviation. May move to something closer to my degree in the future. As an operator, a STEM background is much less immediately useful in my field than one might imagine though there is a concerted push to move in that direction.
BA in Communications (#1 on the list)...Broadcast Journalism more specifically...and a minor in Geography & Urban Studies...which led to an MS in Urban & Regional Planning...and my current profession.
And while I'm nor working directly in Communications, I believe my degree has been invaluable in my profession...I learned to write better and most importantly, how to present
Where is history? While fascinating (at least to me) my son's degree in history was not exactly well, shall we say, economically advantageous?
And, as others have posted, many people I know with one degree pursue vocations in others. I worked in a real estate development company once, and one of our associates had a degree in forestry. He was working in an area of the company developing apartments and shopping centers.
Of course, when I think about it, if you have one of the above degrees, you may already have figured out you need to pursue a vocation outside of that field to get a good ROI!! LOL
This thread assumes one must get a financial return on ones college investment. There are other forms of "return" that aren't measured financially.
I can think of many people with MBA's who worked in the Peace Corp or did social work and still haven't paid off the loans they took, but they don't care because they absolutely love what they do. The personal return was far, far greater than the financial one.
Yet, I know someone with a literature degree who went into technology and worked for 15 years and absolutely hated it. Did he pay off his student loans?....sure....but if you asked him his "return" was zero because he felt he wasted 15 years of his life. Now he works in script development for Hollywood and loves it.
As I noted, return is relative.
Quote from: spuwho on June 05, 2013, 11:29:19 PM
This thread assumes one must get a financial return on ones college investment. There are other forms of "return" that aren't measured financially.
I can think of many people with MBA's who worked in the Peace Corp or did social work and still haven't paid off the loans they took, but they don't care because they absolutely love what they do. The personal return was far, far greater than the financial one.
Yet, I know someone with a literature degree who went into technology and worked for 15 years and absolutely hated it. Did he pay off his student loans?....sure....but if you asked him his "return" was zero because he felt he wasted 15 years of his life. Now he works in script development for Hollywood and loves it.
As I noted, return is relative.
The Peace Corps is one of the most competitive internship-type experiences out there and can be an invaluable line on a resume. I don't doubt the good intentions and compassion of the volunteers, but I think it'd be wrong to say that they're foregoing a comfortable and affluent life in the long run. Same thing for Americorps or Teach For America. Several of my friends have used these programs as stepping stones away from a humanities major to bolster their resumes or applications for lucrative masters/professional degrees.
College is never wasted. Knowledge is never wasted. So spuwho is right about what constitutes "return." But if you look at the economics only, it used to be that college was absolutely necessary to getting a good job. Now that I know people who are reaching retirement age and still saddled with student loans they are still paying off, one must wonder if going to college and taking on a lifetime of debt which can't be discharged, and will never be paid off before you die, is worth it. Of course, there are state colleges that don't cost as much, if you can get into one or there is one in your area. Interesting discussion.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on June 06, 2013, 07:09:34 AM
it used to be that college was absolutely necessary to getting a good job.
I'll take this and run with it as if it were a pair of scissors...
It may not be 'necessary', but more and more companies are requiring at least a associates degree before even looking at a resume. And we're talking about entry level jobs, specifically in the construction industry on the management side. I had difficulty getting interviews with companies that I have worked for as a subcontractor for several 6-7 years.
The couple of PMs that I knew had told me about openings and asked me to come over, and they just 'assumed' that I had a degree of some sort. I never made it past the first interview with any of the companies, even with over a decade of experience in the field.
I get that in a lot of cases, 'who you know' is a helluva lot more important that 'what you know', but when you can't get past the local interviews due to a lack of 'paper qualification'.
I told my kids to get as much education as they can when they are young because it never gets any easier. later on responsibility, job, and family get in the way. Also the first college degree may get you in the door but the second will cement your vocation. For example, my oldest daughter took a psychology degree and went into space and missile systems for the Air Force. The Major selectee is now studying for her Doctor of Physical Therapy degree. The Psychology degree was just a stepping stone. But none of that is in the field of psychology and likely would not show up in this type ranking.
Many of the previous posters had undergrad degrees on the list but graduate degrees in a specific field.
The problem stems from definition. On a technical degree you have a defined starting point. Those on the list not so much.
Another example. My first degree was in Aviation Maintenance. I spend a lot of years as a USAF Aircraft & Munitions Maintenance Officer. I have another in Construction. I now am a Senior Project Manager building big buildings. Both definable as to profession.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 06, 2013, 08:04:35 AM
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on June 06, 2013, 07:09:34 AM
it used to be that college was absolutely necessary to getting a good job.
I'll take this and run with it as if it were a pair of scissors...
It may not be 'necessary', but more and more companies are requiring at least a associates degree before even looking at a resume. And we're talking about entry level jobs, specifically in the construction industry on the management side. I had difficulty getting interviews with companies that I have worked for as a subcontractor for several 6-7 years.
The couple of PMs that I knew had told me about openings and asked me to come over, and they just 'assumed' that I had a degree of some sort. I never made it past the first interview with any of the companies, even with over a decade of experience in the field.
I get that in a lot of cases, 'who you know' is a helluva lot more important that 'what you know', but when you can't get past the local interviews due to a lack of 'paper qualification'.
That's becoming more and more of a problem. One of my best friends has been passed over many times in his company because he doesn't have his AA in favor of people who have pieces of paper in totally unrelated fields, and in some cases people with degrees from unaccredited schools. It's become frequent that HR software automatically sorts out any applicants who don't have "minimum requirements" before anyone even gets to look at them.
Quote from: Tacachale on June 06, 2013, 09:24:03 AM
and in some cases people with degrees from unaccredited schools. It's become frequent that HR software automatically sorts out any applicants who don't have "minimum requirements" before anyone even gets to look at them.
^^ I also believe that this is becoming a big issue as well.
^A lot of public sector type jobs require you answer a few questions to see if you meet the required education or experience before you can even apply these days. If not you get an overwhelming amount of unqualified applicants. I reviewed applications at my last job for a position that required either a masters or certain experience, and we still got quite a few absolutely ridiculous applicants. Given the ease of applying over the internet, there have to be some type of quality control measures, or application reviewers get bogged down.
Personally, I think every application should come with a test, but I'm sure that actually verifying someone's skill-set during / before the interview process would give some an unfair advantage... ::)
It could easily be done for interweb applicants as well.
If the job requires you to type 50wpm, then there should be a typing test.
If the job requires knowledge of basic Word, Excel programs, then, as a hiring department, there should be a way to find out beforehand.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't take a degree to file paperwork and I'm of the opinion that actual job knowledge should trump a piece of paper in every instance.
I guess those two examples are quite possibly the reason that I'm now self-employed. ;D
I was a Poli Sci/International Affairs major with enough minors (english, philosophy, film studies) to make Buster Bluth jealous. Had a lot of work experience prior to graduation...and after graduation worked at a bank for a year, then Fidelity Investments for a year, then went to grad school for Urban and Regional Planning. Literally got my Masters in the worst year ever for people in my field, but also left my job at Fidelity right before the market crash, so I guess that worked out. Was one of the first people hired at Fidelity in Jax and was to be in the first group promoted before I quit, which would have put me in line for either a managerial position or high net worth client position. Basically, I'd be making way more money than I am now, without having to take out loans for grad school. However, I'm much more satisfied professionally and think that my long term career trajectory is a lot more exciting.
I think Tacachale made a great point about the flaw in looking at what jobs require each degree vs. what people with each degree do. I don't have any data and I may be wrong, but I believe a very high percentage of CEO's and execs have Liberal Arts backgrounds...though of course many probably also have advanced degrees.
^My boss's bachelor's is in fine arts and a Ph.D. in art education, and he's a VP at a university.
Except in large bureaucracies.............corporate and government......where the degree is a square filler for HR job descriptions.......the degree may get you in the door but it is still what you do that gets you ahead.
I have friends/acquaintances at Goldman, Carlyle, Blackrock or [insert bank/equity shop here] who have liberal arts degrees. Granted, most people I know and work with at this point went to Ivy League or some prominent university and come from established backgrounds, so it's not apples to apples. We just hired two associates for the office/division I work in this week and one did undergrad at Middlebury, yet his first job out of college was at Lehman. He has his MBA from Dartmouth. The other did undergrad at Bryant in RI (Communications), has no MBA, and yet has managed to snag jobs at AEW, Dubai Investment Group, Eastdil Secured and UBS.
There are so many factors at play that these rankings become silly. Yes, overall, majoring in Lit and minoring in journalism or something along those lines will not land you an analyst position at Credit Suisse or an engineering job at DoD or Lockheed, but for the former if you have connections, went to a school seen by the financial sector's elite as respectable, made good grades, and interview well - then you have good chances, even if you don't have a Bs in Finance, etc.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 06, 2013, 10:01:50 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on June 06, 2013, 09:24:03 AM
and in some cases people with degrees from unaccredited schools. It's become frequent that HR software automatically sorts out any applicants who don't have "minimum requirements" before anyone even gets to look at them.
^^ I also believe that this is becoming a big issue as well.
It is well documented that HR management systems from companies like Taleo sort out resumes without the correct type and amount of keywords in the resume.
At a friends recommendation, I submitted a resume for a particular role he had recommended for me. At his request, I emailed him when I had completed this. The next day he could not find my submission immediately. The HR Recruiting engine had sifted through my resume and placed it in the bottom quartile of the applicants. Surprised, he pulled it "out of the dumps" and made sure it got to the corporate recruiter.
No joy, the recruiter saw on the system that my profile ranked lower than other candidates that submitted electronically. Because of that they told the hiring manager to not contact me since I was "not recommended" by the system.
Now, the system is one thing, but is it really the recruiters fault for not using their own mind to make decisions?
Today being in a connected world where a job posting can now be see by a potential 5 or 6 billion world wide, I have been on the other side of the tree where I got over a thousand responses to a posting, 900 of which were from overseas, with resumes or profiles that aren't even close to matching the requirements. The only way to screen out these candidates was to use the same profile scanning engine as I noted before.
College degree can help, it helps you get past certain qualifiers, but there is more to it now in a global job economy.
PBS has been doing a series on job-hunting in today's economy. A recurring theme is the inefficiency of the typical online job search. Great article from April: Ask The Headhunter: The Talent Shortage Myth and Why HR Should Get Out of the Hiring Business (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2013/04/ask-the-headhunter-the-talent.html)
A senior project manager with a large multinational I know has never accepted an HR recommended candidate and always hired from within or through his own connections. Apparently they never sent him candidates with the combination of skills, attitude and work ethic he looks for. For better or worse, networking is more than a trendy buzzword these days (something I'm still terrible at doing myself).
I have an associates in Visual Communications (web design), and I'll be finish in Jan with a bachelors in Communications & Technology.
I have a BA in Music, instrument Bassoon. I have been working in the IT field for about 15 years. Music deals with discipline, organization, analysis, attention to detail, creativity, grace under pressure, accuracy (it's got to be done correctly) and much more that apply to the IT arena. I have many friends with musical backgrounds that work in IT.