I like the fact that MetroJax has been able to pull together the video piece, but you will completely turn off a large segment of potential viewers if you continue the smug @sshole shtick. Two cents.
Site Administrator's Note: This thread is a discussion of viewer feedback on the video: Episode One of "Why We Can't Have Nice Things". The video can be viewed by visiting this link:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-may-episode-one-of-why-we-cant-have-nice-things
Quote from: MEGATRON on May 31, 2013, 11:23:49 AM
I like the fact that MetroJax has been able to pull together the video piece, but you will completely turn off a large segment of potential viewers if you continue the smug @sshole shtick. Two cents.
+1
Stephen, Arash and I don't fully agree on this but from my perspective, I'd say you have a strong point. So strong that even I agree 100%.
Quote from: stephendare on May 31, 2013, 11:37:53 AM
Quote from: JayBird on May 31, 2013, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: MEGATRON on May 31, 2013, 11:23:49 AM
I like the fact that MetroJax has been able to pull together the video piece, but you will completely turn off a large segment of potential viewers if you continue the smug @sshole shtick. Two cents.
+1
Probably true. But its really just a satirical segment. The rest of our video is pretty straightforward. But thanks for noticing only the one video! Although don't you think that in itself kind of proves the point? ;)
Sorry, life's short. Closed it down due to the condescending tone. Not sure if that proves any point but whatever.
Quote from: stephendare on May 31, 2013, 11:48:31 AM
see above. And I wouldnt be criticizing people for being condescending too gratuitiously if I were you, considering ;). In fact I usually don't. :)
Ha! Well, point taken. Except MEGATRON's posts on MJ =/= MJ publication. Just saying. I want to see this thing succeed hence my comment.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 31, 2013, 11:28:31 AM
Stephen, Arash and I don't fully agree on this but from my perspective, I'd say you have a strong point. So strong that even I agree 100%.
I also echo these points.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 31, 2013, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 31, 2013, 11:28:31 AM
Stephen, Arash and I don't fully agree on this but from my perspective, I'd say you have a strong point. So strong that even I agree 100%.
I also echo these points.
Hate to pile on, but I also agree. If MJ is going the condescending route...maybe throw a little more humor in there. Like Seth Meyers and Amy Poehler on the "Really!?!" segment on SNL Weekend Update.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdE4FIYSmk8
Quote from: thelakelander on May 31, 2013, 11:28:31 AM
Stephen, Arash and I don't fully agree on this but from my perspective, I'd say you have a strong point. So strong that even I agree 100%.
I agree with you Ennis. This type of segment will only appeal to a very small segment of viewers. Stating facts about the park itself as opposed to going after the small minded actions of the most pathetic council members is not going to get traction for further viewership. IMO Folks know we have some jokers on council, not sure pointing that out is going to change what happens to the park. On the flip side pointing out the flaws in the council plan and giving an alternative may work to inspire action.
Quote from: CityLife on May 31, 2013, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on May 31, 2013, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 31, 2013, 11:28:31 AM
Stephen, Arash and I don't fully agree on this but from my perspective, I'd say you have a strong point. So strong that even I agree 100%.
I also echo these points.
Hate to pile on, but I also agree. If MJ is going the condescending route...maybe throw a little more humor in there. Like Seth Meyers and Amy Poehler on the "Really!?!" segment on SNL Weekend Update.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdE4FIYSmk8
Agree entirely here. I think a lot of it is the tone. If the intention is to be satirical it could be funnier.
Quote from: stephendare on May 31, 2013, 11:37:53 AM
Quote from: JayBird on May 31, 2013, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: MEGATRON on May 31, 2013, 11:23:49 AM
I like the fact that MetroJax has been able to pull together the video piece, but you will completely turn off a large segment of potential viewers if you continue the smug @sshole shtick. Two cents.
+1
Probably true. But its really just a satirical segment. The rest of our video is pretty straightforward. But thanks for noticing only the one video! Although don't you think that in itself kind of proves the point? ;)
You always run the risk of turning of viewers, I think. If you simply repeat the bland half stories that are the usual coverage, then you turn off a huge potential segment of viewers. If you do something a little spicy, then you turn off a huge segment of potential viewers.
But thats the beauty of this site. Its open. If you want to produce something thats very different, then by all means do. In fact join us. But I think we will always provide a variety of points of view, and lots of different ways of saying them.
People have been warning us about our complete loss of credibility literally since our first month of operation nearly 8 years ago. Weve lost enough credibility, if our comments are to be believed, to cause three major religions to stop recognizing Moses, if he were in our position. But I think our first total loss of credibility---the one which cancelled any possible future for us came back in 06, when were had less than 10k posters and readers.
That was a pretty long time ago.
But seriously, (and I do mean this sincerely) thanks for weighing in, because I know that you only do so because you care about the site and the future of our collective mission. Your concerns are noted, and reflect a conversation which has already taken place internally, and we actually all agree with you. Not everything can or should be sarcastic. Thats why this is a specially labelled segment with the kind of name that should tell you its going to be snarky.
Relax, have fun, and if you have ideas for segments or material, seriously do not hesitate to contact us!
affectionately
Stephen
I have watched and enjoyed every video on MJ's channel, including this one. However I agreed with Megtrons comment simply because it is true. To those who aren't regulars, the video makes it seem like instead of trying to point out the issues about the park the city council is mishandling, that you have a vendetta against them. And nowadays people are so happy to put "vast right-wing conspiracy" on everything that they can, why give them something else to write off? There is a way to give a satirical with class, so you ave the humor but also get the point across. Because I use this site a lot as reference in conversations and make it a required reading for my finance and politics class, I get a lot of feedback. Most is great, some is good, and a very small minority is bad. The biggest comments regard certain posters and how they use this and other blogs as a soapbox. Mr. Dare, I enjoy your comments on this site. I don't always agree with them, but they make people look at something from another angle they might not have before. Snarkiness,witty comebacks and trying to force others to see your view only detracts from your original meesage. Psychology 101. Take the constructive criticism, laugh, cry, roll your eyes, and then move on. And continue posting your views and reading that of others.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 31, 2013, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 31, 2013, 11:28:31 AM
Stephen, Arash and I don't fully agree on this but from my perspective, I'd say you have a strong point. So strong that even I agree 100%.
I also echo these points.
and I have kept quiet on this, but also concur....the snarkiness is a bit over the top....you're filming in a news studio, so keeping it relatively serious and professional seems appropriate.
The new video, on San Marco Square, is more subdued....but still has a few sensational statements
Guess I should have just kept my mouth shut and make it seem as if I didn't care one way or another
Focus! The webcast is not the issue. The park/plaza is. Downtown JAX is. The seemingly unsolvable issues, which remain unsolved year after year, are. As long as we constantly allow our attention to be polarized by relatively unimportant matters and, what appears to be, an irresistible urge to back bite and bicker, we shall accomplish no more than city government. We will instead become just a microcosm of that very sad, ineffective and broken machine. I sincerely doubt that was ever the intent of this forum.
Quote from: stephendare on May 31, 2013, 02:39:25 PM
Well the segment isnt going to change its tone, so if you don't like satire, then don't watch them, I suppose is the quick remedy.
There will be other coverage that is more to your liking, and in the interim, we are definitely open to your submissions. ;)
On the whole, being able to poke fun is a lot more effective than always being outraged, or angry
Some things are worth getting exercised about.
How about a fishing video? We can put in at a Downtown Redneck kayak launch that needs a Mayor Brown Kayak logo and then take it over to the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways. Along the way we can do a Vivian Harrell blue bag cleanup and leave it at The Jim Love, Kevin Kuzel, Berkman floating dock compromise that was misrepresented by OGC to Waterways during the 2013 FIND grant application process and then get to show everyone why we are Downtown and you aren't.
WWCNHNT should make a highlight film at 11 somewhere!
From my understanding, none of these videos will be aired by News4Jax. Right now, we're still in practice mode and the Hemming Plaza segment was from Stephen's perspective.
Earlier, I briefly commented that I agreed with MEGATRON's first comment in this thread. I figured, I'd explain my perspective in more detail. The main reason I contribute as a part of Metro Jacksonville is to influence positive change in the community. With everything I do with this site, that's always been my underlying goal. Since 2006, I think we've been pretty successful at building professional credibility within the community on our understanding of public policy and influencing tactical urbanism. With that in mind, the Hemming Plaza video and script came off to me the exact opposite of stimulating community collaboration to encourage change for the better.
Overall, I believe we have a great opportunity to expand our influence with our partnerships with radio and television media outlets in town. As more videos are produced under the Metro Jacksonville name, I'd encourage all our writers to revisit some of the older video segments we produced. We didn't have expensive cameras or a news studio at our disposal but we were able to get compelling messages across for the issues they challenged. Better yet, those messages were highly effective in pulling people together from all sides and doing the right thing.
http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/ria/ShizVidz-2008120101.swf?s=ZT0xJmk9NDU4MjQ2ODIzJms9dEpSZUQmYT03MDg2NjQzX1l6UEFMJnU9bWV0cm9hY2tzb252aWxsZQ==
October 2007 Metro Jacksonville video illustrating why a downtown bus only mall would be a bad idea for Jacksonville.
That bus video was awesome.
People enjoy educated and interesting talk about local issues. You do not need to be over the top or sensational in my opinion. Remember when that Urban Core podcast was made? I think the morning show on 899 fm shows that theres a market for it.
Quote from: stephendare on May 31, 2013, 03:40:30 PM
Meh. We've been a mixture of many things from the beginning. The segment was co written by several of us, and its awesome, pretty proud of the work we did as we are developing this project, actually.
I apparently wasnt sent the memo about Metrojacksonville's sudden antipathy for snark, btw. As I recall its always been with us. And thats a good thing. People get tired of 'angry', which was a very common complaint during the WLA proceedings.
Take for example this pretty snarky post from 2005. I think you might have written it, in fact, Ennis. ;)
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2006-apr-mayor-peytons-smaller-ideas
QuoteIs it just me or does Mayor Peyton's 'Big Ideas' proposal seem to be shrinking into a 'Smaller and smaller ideas' plan? Let's follow the evolution of the "Big Ideas" together.When the "Big Ideas" were first announced (leaked, the Mayor says), the Mayor's new downtown initiatives seemed to be plastered over every print, radio and TV news outlet in Jacksonville.
Published March 29, 2006 in News - Edit Article
And Peyton and his dream team quickly went into overdrive to force feed the Jacksonville masses on a healthy diet of “Big Ideasâ€. It started when the Mayor’s office personally invited over 150 friends and Jacksonville business leaders to two meetings in one week back in late February. At these meetings he, Mike Saylor (City Planning Director) and Ron Barton gave a dog and pony show to highlight the Big Ideas. And, within two weeks, there was an internal email among the Mayor’s staff that referred to Peyton’s upcoming “stumping schedule†over the following several weeks, at which Saylor and Barton were also to be present for show and tell (but not so much listening if the first two meetings were any indication).
and then of course there was this doozy, also from 2006
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-jan-metro-jacksonvilles-stance-on-brad-thoburn-appointment
QuoteMetro Jacksonville had the opportunity to interview Thoburn for the position. He was gracious and answered all of our questions without hesitation. In addition, Mayor John Peyton stopped by a recent meeting of Metro Jacksonville with Policy Chief Adam Hollingsworth to discuss his thoughts behind the suggested appointment of Thoburn. Mayor Peyton referred to Thoburn as one of the smartest people he's known and also pointed to Thoburn's work with The Better Jacksonville Plan, the Growth Management Task Force and his proven track record of acquiring state and federal funds for local projects.
We'd like to thank Brad Thoburn, Adam Hollingsworth and Mayor John Peyton for taking time out of their schedule to meet personally with Metro Jacksonville. Nothing obligated them to do this and it was definitely appreciated; and we thank them for their time.
During the interview with Thoburn, he was asked many questions on topics ranging from New Urbanism and the current zoning code and past planning positives and negatives to comparisons to other cities and how downtown relates to other surrounding neighborhoods. Frankly, we felt that the answers that we received were those that would be expected from a planning department office manager, not that of a Planning Director.
Both Thoburn and Mayor Peyton discussed how the position is largely managerial and administrative, and that we hire planners for the actual "planning work". However, that is not the intent of the position, despite Mayor Peyton's observance as such. If the purpose of the Planning Director is to be an administrator, why does the ordinance require a master's degree in Urban Planning or a related field, and ten years of managerial experience, five of which are in a planning organization? If Mayor Peyton felt that the position was truly managerial, then why doesn't he ask the city council to change the requirements; instead of waiving them solely for this candidate?
The bottom line is that Brad Thoburn is simply not qualified for the position. He seems to possess many positive leadership qualities, is a decent manager of people, has good interpersonal skills and has experience working in Washington, D.C. for the late Congresswoman Tillie Fowler; which should prove invaluable to this administration. It seems Thoburn can be an invaluable and irreplaceable resource for the administration, but not in the position of Planning Director.
The people of this great city deserve the best city planner that can be found. Mayor Peyton's office stated that they received in excess of 50 resumes for the position, but that none of the candidates were even worthy of an interview. This may be the case; but if it's true, then the people of Jacksonville deserve a more exhaustive search, they do not deserve Mayor Peyton throwing in the towel when the city doesn't find the ideal candidate on the first round of inquiry.
In recent editorials, some have stated that the mayor should have the right to pick his own team and the City Council should just "go along with it". However, the city code declares that the City Council must confirm the mayor's decision â€" this is called checks and balances and is an integral part of any high school civics class. Some have also gone on to say how Mayor Peyton is the one person who is ultimately responsible for any decisions that Thoburn makes. However, who has to live with those decisions, good or bad? The citizens of Jacksonville.
The Jacksonville City Council should be offended by the notion that columnists in our local media would infer that they should just go along with anything, particularly an appointment that they have an official and legal responsibility to objectively critique. The City Council has the responsibility to ensure that any mayor appoint the most qualified person available for a particular position; and Metro Jacksonville refuses to believe that Brad Thoburn is the most qualified person available and willing to serve Jacksonville as Planning Director. We truly believe that Jacksonville deserves the best, and because of that, we respectfully request that the Jacksonville City Council deny Mayor Peyton's request that the job requirements for the position of Planning Director be waived.
We will continue to be a lot of voices, I think. Not all of us will agree, but all are welcome to participate.
Hmmm. The first is not me. I've never published a story without imagery. I'm pretty consistent at that. It doesn't even look like a real article. It looks like a forum post that was pulled into the article format.
The second was a group created letter. It actually address core issues we all had at the time with the hiring and the reasoning behind our unified position. Nothing wrong with that from my view.
I don't even see the Brad Thoburn opinion piece as snarky. It's kind of well written in which the casual viewer can clearly understand the "group's" position and how we arrived at that conclusion. It was even co-written by all of us. I actually think we should do that more often, especially when election time rolls around. Thanks for pulling it out of the grave.
That would be great. Jacksonville truly needs us to step up.
Yea I also think the Thoburn piece was very well done. Would like to see a lot more of that next election cycle.
^ +1,000
Thank you Stephen for giving your opinions. Much obliged. Since this was 'a great piece that will get more coverage' than others ... maybe we could actually about the message and not the messenger.