So what side of the fence do you fall on? Should we eliminate public amenities to make downtown hostile for the homeless to enjoy them or is there a better way of dealing with this problem?
QuoteThe Landing's owner says a lack of seating helps scatter homeless.
By Mary Kelli Palka, The Times-Union
Toney Sleiman noticed something interesting about a month ago after he removed a few benches from a gazebo near The Jacksonville Landing, which he owns.
The homeless people who frequently used the benches along the Northbank Riverwalk as makeshift cots to sleep on - day and night - had disappeared.
Well, not literally. But they were out of Sleiman's sight and the view of the people who visit his dining, retail and entertainment venue.
Then, the city started removing more benches from other parts of the Northbank Riverwalk, mostly under the Acosta Bridge, because of similar concerns.
But a call from City Councilman Bill Bishop put a stop to the removal. The benches were put back by the end of the next day, including the ones in the gazebo near the Landing.
Bishop doesn't know if homeless people sleeping on the Riverwalk is a problem. But if it is, the city should beef up police patrols, not remove amenities used by the general public, he said.
"The homeless aren't going to care," Bishop said. "They're going to camp in the bushes if there aren't benches."
full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031708/met_258519023.shtml
I think a simple pair of cops on bikes constantly patrolling from one end of the riverwalk to the other end, plus the reconfigurment of all the benches to have the arm rest in the middle would do the trick.
i'm with Bishop on this one.
Quote from: Dapperdan on March 17, 2008, 10:04:28 AM
I think a simple pair of cops on bikes constantly patrolling from one end of the riverwalk to the other end, plus the reconfigurment of all the benches to have the arm rest in the middle would do the trick.
Great suggestions. That does should like an effective way of dealing with the situation.
My favorite part of the article is the last piece of info from Jerry Neal.
"...the homeless won't leave downtown because there are many places in the area for the homeless to eat. But, he said, it's more than just a convenience. 'I'd say it's more a tradition than anything,' he said."
There it is in black and white. Downtown Jacksonville provides the meals and beds, homeless provide the scenery.
I go walking on the Northbank a lot at night. Late night. Probably early morning by most people's standards. And yeah, there's homeless sleeping on the benches. Ironically enough, I never see them on the downtown side of the Haskell building. It's all in front of the St. Joe and Fidelity buildings. For what it's worth, the homeless are act as if I'm not even there.
I am not an expert but being homeless is a desperate situation. People in desperate situations need help not trust. Counting on homeless to ignore you only needs to go wrong once please be careful.
Thank you, and I am. Just one time do I need to appear a victim to the wrong transient. A lot of times I'm not alone, so that helps. Seriously, thank you for the concern :)
"Jerry Neal, 50, came to Jacksonville from Kansas a few years ago. He spent many nights out on the Northbank Riverwalk. He said he now sleeps at a nearby shelter and occasionally does labor work. He was on the Riverwalk on Wednesday to visit with a friend who brought his boat downtown."
Free food, clothes, sympathy....don't have to work, just panhandle for some "spare change" or hang out at the Shell Station on Main and then when your buddy shows up with his boat, you can just hang out, go for a little river cruise and enjoy the scenery. What a deal, I wouldn't leave either. No wonder he moved here from Kansas!
A simple solution for a complex problem...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLNhuUI0O9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLNhuUI0O9k)
how about benches like these?
(http://image.ohmynews.com/down/images/1/yumiko_321234_1%5B528575%5D.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/images/learning_from/detroit_waterfront/p1010835.jpg)
(http://image.ohmynews.com/down/images/1/yumiko_321234_1%5B528578%5D.jpg)
QuoteThe hard curved surfaces of this stainless-steel bench, too hot in summer, too cold in winter, repels all but one visitor to Ikebukuro West Park.
more images:
Public Benches Turn 'Anti-Homeless'http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=&no=321234&rel_no=1
Now that is Genious!!
I'm for the benches with armrests, but the tube thing seems like a disaster.
The tubes would be fun for the drunks leaving the Landing!
well i say move the benches and bushes make them stand
The only problem is benches in places like the riverwalk are a public amenity. There has to be a better way to deal with this problem than implementing a solution punishing the general public. Downtown is already hostile. Making it less user friendly won't improve things considering benches or no benches, the homeless aren't going any where. They'll just lay down on the sidewalks.
(http://static.flickr.com/68/213683026_6b1d439292.jpg)
QuoteThey'll just lay down on the sidewalks.
And when they do, they'll be in violation of the Downtown Camping Ordinance and subject to arrest.
Keep in mind that by bedtime, most all of Jacksonville's genuinely homeless people are in one of our many shelters. Only the mentally ill, criminal vagrants, and deliberate outdoormen remain on the street.
They violate panhandling laws now. We just don't have the police power downtown to enforce the rules. If we enforced what we already have in place, most the the problems we want to make new rules for today would be reduced.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 17, 2008, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on March 17, 2008, 10:04:28 AM
I think a simple pair of cops on bikes constantly patrolling from one end of the riverwalk to the other end, plus the reconfigurment of all the benches to have the arm rest in the middle would do the trick.
Great suggestions. That does should like an effective way of dealing with the situation.
Charleston does this, with great success.
Removing benches just ruins downtown for everyone. Goodbye to people being able to sit and enjoy lunch outside and encouraging anyone from venturing out for very long...keep moving, keep moving.
Knowing what sleeps there, I wouldn't sit there. Something has to be done though, the homeless thing downtown is not outta hand, but it is a sizeable problem.
i recall a case where people were sticking chewing gum under the edge of bus seats, thank God these fools at City hall wern't in charge. Instead of a no gum rule on buses, they would have pulled out all of the seats so everyone could ride the straps... M R 2 Dum
Ocklawaha
yeah it's a problem. The weather being too nice is as big an issue as free food in making this a homeless destination. Anything they can do about that? Where my wife is from in Hartford CT at least the weather keeps the numbers down. Hartford has had a lot of the same problems with its downtown issues and it's coming around I hear. More crime there too though.
QuoteRemoving benches isn't the answer on transients
By RON LITTLEPAGE
The Times-Union
You may recall the saga a few weeks ago of the disappearing park benches along the Northbank Riverwalk.
It's no secret that Toney Sleiman, who owns The Jacksonville Landing, had the benches removed from a gazebo near the Landing.
Sleiman's view was that the transients and homeless who congregated there were scaring customers.
Although no one is publicly taking credit, the idea spread to the benches in the large landscaped area under the Acosta Bridge.
The removal was brief. City Councilman Bill Bishop complained and the benches were returned.
Sleiman called recently and told me he was thinking about removing the benches again. And, in Sleiman fashion, he said if the city wanted to throw him in jail, so be it.
"Toney," I said, "there has to be a better way."
full article: www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/032808/opl_262353937.shtml.
For a nation and a secton of this country to change it's ways, some form of soul searching "conversion" experience is needed. We cashiered the racism of the past, the days when German POW's from the bases could get passes to the theater, but the local "colored" couldn't enter them. There were wars fought to keep the free flow of Opium on the streets 200 years ago. Today we fight wars to get the opium off the streets... Meanwhile, in between those era's we rounded up all of those who had Japanese ancestry and tossed them into camps... Wonder if any of those Germans riding to the theater, ever saw a paddy wagon full of Japanese citizens being loaded up? What THEY must have thought of us?
Today, we have a new elite, and a new definition of the untouchables. Those lower then thou, dirty, smelly, and disfunctional people that sometimes wander into our paths. They certainly are the ones we should have been after all along. The economic challenged. You know they are criminal just by their looks. They spread every sort of vice, crime and yes even murder. As a group we could purify Jacksonville with sweeping changes. Force these no-accounts to register with the State. Perhaps we could have them wear large Rat shaped badges on their clothing so we could spot them in a crowd. We could round them up in the mornings as a nearly free labour force. Toss them out of bed and into vans and buses and make them work for us. Issue free abortions to all of those who fail to qualify as parenting material. Violatoins of the new rules could be counted in Crystal Shards... JACKSONVILLE pure, JACKSONVILLE true, JACKSONVILLE homeless frei...Heimatlos frei...
Glatte Neigung
Ocklawaha
What if we copied Savannah and placed a few old fashion wooden benches along the riverwalk? It'd attract a different vibe i'm sure
Do we know if the general Downtown office worker or Downtown resident actually sits on the benches under the Acosta Bridge??? Anytime I have been there, I havent seen the typical Downtown office worker or established Downtown resident using them, it reminds me of the Main St Park, same type of people using the benches.
I'm only one person, and certainly a walking anomoly in my own right, but I work downtown and use the benches. In fact, oftentimes when I'd like to sit in one of the benches to eat my lunch, it's difficult to find one empty, between office types on their own lunch and the tourists drawn to the Landing.
.
I am specifically talking about the benches located under the Acosta Bridge. I have seen many people using the benches along the Riverwalk near the Hyatt and the Landing.
I don't use them much during lunch breaks but after hauling my bum up or down that part of the Riverwalk, I do occasionally find need to sit. I've seen late night cyclists stopping at the benches under the bridge as well.